00:00

And again, remember, percentage of their readers are ultra wealthy people who are like, yeah, great. I wanna have a home on on the East Coast that I could park my private plane in, and that'll be one of my hubs.

And again, remember, percentage of their readers are ultra wealthy people who are like, yeah, great. I wanna have a home on on the East Coast that I could park my private plane in, and that'll be one of my hubs.

00:09

And I'm pretty sure. Okay. I don't know the exact numbers on this, but I can triangulate a little bit. I think they've done at least twenty five million in presales

And I'm pretty sure. Okay. I don't know the exact numbers on this, but I can triangulate a little bit. I think they've done at least twenty five million in presales

00:18

on this thing. That is crazy. And it could be

on this thing. That is crazy. And it could be

00:21

it could easily be double that. But, but that is a a really awesome and impressive

it could easily be double that. But, but that is a a really awesome and impressive

00:27

like, way to take this niche hobby, take find a find a kind of media publication that that that works and go content to commerce.

like, way to take this niche hobby, take find a find a kind of media publication that that that works and go content to commerce.

00:36

I have a I have some stuff with

I have a I have some stuff with

00:44

for today. You have something that I know about that I've kind of mentioned, but I mentioned it without saying their name,

for today. You have something that I know about that I've kind of mentioned, but I mentioned it without saying their name,

00:51

Craig Fuller. Now we can mention it. Let's talk about it. Did you did you get permission from, about this?

Craig Fuller. Now we can mention it. Let's talk about it. Did you did you get permission from, about this?

00:57

Yeah. I think so. So we got some of this is public, but let's let's talk a little bit about this. Okay. So

Yeah. I think so. So we got some of this is public, but let's let's talk a little bit about this. Okay. So

01:03

there's this there's this business called,

there's this there's this business called,

01:06

flying magazine, a flying mag.

flying magazine, a flying mag.

01:08

And, so when you look at it, you're like, okay. Well, what is this? And so basically the story is there's a guy who bought this magazine called Flying Mag, And flying mag produces this beautiful magazine, amazing photos. And if you're,

And, so when you look at it, you're like, okay. Well, what is this? And so basically the story is there's a guy who bought this magazine called Flying Mag, And flying mag produces this beautiful magazine, amazing photos. And if you're,

01:20

a flying or aviation enthusiast,

a flying or aviation enthusiast,

01:23

you will love this magazine.

you will love this magazine.

01:25

He bought it for, like,

He bought it for, like,

01:27

I think, like,

I think, like,

01:30

not quite ten million, but a little under that. So maybe somewhere between, let's call it five to ten million dollars.

not quite ten million, but a little under that. So maybe somewhere between, let's call it five to ten million dollars.

01:35

My guess is a fraction of that. I think it was closer to one. Do you have any any Yeah. I've got a little source here saying high seven figures. So let let's let's assume the source is correct. Okay. So,

My guess is a fraction of that. I think it was closer to one. Do you have any any Yeah. I've got a little source here saying high seven figures. So let let's let's assume the source is correct. Okay. So,

01:47

but then I was like, well, where did this person get high seven figures to go drop on a magazine? That seems like a pretty indulgent purchase for somebody unless they have a lot of money. So he started a company before that called Freight Waves, which,

but then I was like, well, where did this person get high seven figures to go drop on a magazine? That seems like a pretty indulgent purchase for somebody unless they have a lot of money. So he started a company before that called Freight Waves, which,

01:59

basically, is like a data company for the freight shipping industry. So they're like a,

basically, is like a data company for the freight shipping industry. So they're like a,

02:04

a price reporting company. So they they provide data

a price reporting company. So they they provide data

02:07

that shippers and freight companies use to, you know, inform themselves on what's going on in the market. They also have a SaaS tool. So they kinda have like a media side which is the, you know, contents that they're producing. That's pricing information.

that shippers and freight companies use to, you know, inform themselves on what's going on in the market. They also have a SaaS tool. So they kinda have like a media side which is the, you know, contents that they're producing. That's pricing information.

02:20

And then they have a SaaS business called Sonar that's in it. And they've released a public press release so you can kind of see some phone numbers. I saw they did that. That's very weird that they did that. Yeah. They're not a public company, but they sort of, like, did a public report And I'm not sure what the agenda was. Like, I think I'm just sort of naive here. I don't know. I normally, this is we want somebody to buy us or we wanna raise money.

And then they have a SaaS business called Sonar that's in it. And they've released a public press release so you can kind of see some phone numbers. I saw they did that. That's very weird that they did that. Yeah. They're not a public company, but they sort of, like, did a public report And I'm not sure what the agenda was. Like, I think I'm just sort of naive here. I don't know. I normally, this is we want somebody to buy us or we wanna raise money.

02:41

Or were prepping to go public, but it's I don't think it's either any of those three, because of what they said. So they basically reported

Or were prepping to go public, but it's I don't think it's either any of those three, because of what they said. So they basically reported

02:48

thirteen million in revenue for a quarter. So let's call it. Like, let's just extrapolate that out in a straight line. So roughly fifty million a year in revenue.

thirteen million in revenue for a quarter. So let's call it. Like, let's just extrapolate that out in a straight line. So roughly fifty million a year in revenue.

02:56

It wasn't a lot in profit. So it was like, you know,

It wasn't a lot in profit. So it was like, you know,

02:59

one or two million in EBITDA in the quarter or something like that. So let's say that this business is making

one or two million in EBITDA in the quarter or something like that. So let's say that this business is making

03:04

I don't know, four to eight million a profit a year. But it's growing seventy percent a year. It's growing quickly almost double. And it's been around, I think, for a little while.

I don't know, four to eight million a profit a year. But it's growing seventy percent a year. It's growing quickly almost double. And it's been around, I think, for a little while.

03:12

So so, you know, it's done well. Had twenty eight million in cash just like on the books on on the balance sheet. So, you know, the the business was in a in a healthy spot. So I think Craig starts freight waves. He then separately buys flying mag.

So so, you know, it's done well. Had twenty eight million in cash just like on the books on on the balance sheet. So, you know, the the business was in a in a healthy spot. So I think Craig starts freight waves. He then separately buys flying mag.

03:27

One of the interesting things about flying mag is that If you think about who are the readers

One of the interesting things about flying mag is that If you think about who are the readers

03:31

of a niche magazine like this, you have

of a niche magazine like this, you have

03:35

two categories.

two categories.

03:36

Uber nerds,

Uber nerds,

03:38

and Uber nerds who are rich. Because, you know, you gotta be kinda nerdy about this hobby if you're gonna be, like, reading about this. Like, we had a guy once who we hired as an engineer that used to an app on his phone where he would listen to the,

and Uber nerds who are rich. Because, you know, you gotta be kinda nerdy about this hobby if you're gonna be, like, reading about this. Like, we had a guy once who we hired as an engineer that used to an app on his phone where he would listen to the,

03:50

what's called air traffic control? He would just tune in to the frequency of air traffic control and listen to it at lunch. And, like, I gotta tell you,

what's called air traffic control? He would just tune in to the frequency of air traffic control and listen to it at lunch. And, like, I gotta tell you,

03:57

Never had a worst lunch with anybody in my life. You know what I'm saying? Me him and his phone on with air traffic control was our lunch. And I was like, you know, Hey, man. I'm gonna go back for seconds and then I'm gonna go kill myself. So see you later. This has been horrible. Thanks. I do I do that with the I do that with the police scanner. Ever deal with the police scanner? At least police can look, there's a show called cops. There's no show called

Never had a worst lunch with anybody in my life. You know what I'm saying? Me him and his phone on with air traffic control was our lunch. And I was like, you know, Hey, man. I'm gonna go back for seconds and then I'm gonna go kill myself. So see you later. This has been horrible. Thanks. I do I do that with the I do that with the police scanner. Ever deal with the police scanner? At least police can look, there's a show called cops. There's no show called

04:19

safe landings because that's all air traffic control.

safe landings because that's all air traffic control.

04:22

There's a show called which way is the wind blowing. But there is a video game called that. There is a video game where all you are is an air traffic controller.

There's a show called which way is the wind blowing. But there is a video game called that. There is a video game where all you are is an air traffic controller.

04:31

Yeah. Fair enough. Okay.

Yeah. Fair enough. Okay.

04:33

So anyways,

So anyways,

04:34

the back to back to my flag mag story. So

the back to back to my flag mag story. So

04:37

A big percentage of the readers are, like, rich people with private planes or, like, you see this a lot in tech for some reason. Like, my buddy furcon did this. So sold this company immediately starts signs up for flying lessons, wants to get his pilot license to, like, go fly this, like, you know, five seater or six seater or two seater plane.

A big percentage of the readers are, like, rich people with private planes or, like, you see this a lot in tech for some reason. Like, my buddy furcon did this. So sold this company immediately starts signs up for flying lessons, wants to get his pilot license to, like, go fly this, like, you know, five seater or six seater or two seater plane.

04:54

They love that hobby. And there's a really expensive hobby.

They love that hobby. And there's a really expensive hobby.

04:58

So one thing that they did recently that I think is really smart is

So one thing that they did recently that I think is really smart is

05:02

Have you heard about this? This community that you're building in Atlanta?

Have you heard about this? This community that you're building in Atlanta?

05:05

So he told me, I'm not gonna steal your thunder, but he told me what he was gonna do And he all he goes, I'm flying from New York to go see this property I'm looking at, and I'm flying my private plane. Do you wanna come with me? And I ended up not going because I had to go up to Teeterborough,

So he told me, I'm not gonna steal your thunder, but he told me what he was gonna do And he all he goes, I'm flying from New York to go see this property I'm looking at, and I'm flying my private plane. Do you wanna come with me? And I ended up not going because I had to go up to Teeterborough,

05:21

so in New Jersey and then fly back down to Atlanta to see the spot with them. But he asked me to go with him, and I almost did it. And he was he and so, I've known about those for about a year and a half now.

so in New Jersey and then fly back down to Atlanta to see the spot with them. But he asked me to go with him, and I almost did it. And he was he and so, I've known about those for about a year and a half now.

05:31

Yeah. That's And so, and so the the interesting thing is they're basically building a community in Atlanta. And I think the reason people build these communities is, like, there's, like, a, what's it called? Like a landing strip, like, in the middle of the neighborhood. So you could park your plane. And if you wanna take off, you could just, like, go take off. It's like, Like, the driveway of the community is, like, a landing strip. And correct me if I remember. It's it's it's a it's a so it's a country club

Yeah. That's And so, and so the the interesting thing is they're basically building a community in Atlanta. And I think the reason people build these communities is, like, there's, like, a, what's it called? Like a landing strip, like, in the middle of the neighborhood. So you could park your plane. And if you wanna take off, you could just, like, go take off. It's like, Like, the driveway of the community is, like, a landing strip. And correct me if I remember. It's it's it's a it's a so it's a country club

05:55

with golf with homes around the golf course, but instead of a golf course, it's a landing strip.

with golf with homes around the golf course, but instead of a golf course, it's a landing strip.

06:01

That's exactly what it is. So it's a it's a country club country club for flying. And so you purchase

That's exactly what it is. So it's a it's a country club country club for flying. And so you purchase

06:07

I forget how much a piece of a plot of land cost, and then they build a build you a home. And now you are part of this aviation

I forget how much a piece of a plot of land cost, and then they build a build you a home. And now you are part of this aviation

06:14

community.

community.

06:16

Right. And so they presold the the plots of of land are the plots of for the homes in this community. So they find this kinda bare ground or whatever. They start pre selling the plots. And again, remember, percentage of their readers are ultra wealthy people who are like, yeah, great. I wanna have a home on on the East Coast that I could park my private plane in, and that'll be one of my hubs.

Right. And so they presold the the plots of of land are the plots of for the homes in this community. So they find this kinda bare ground or whatever. They start pre selling the plots. And again, remember, percentage of their readers are ultra wealthy people who are like, yeah, great. I wanna have a home on on the East Coast that I could park my private plane in, and that'll be one of my hubs.

06:36

And I'm pretty sure. Okay. I don't know the exact numbers on this, but I can triangulate a little bit. I think they've done at least twenty five million in presales

And I'm pretty sure. Okay. I don't know the exact numbers on this, but I can triangulate a little bit. I think they've done at least twenty five million in presales

06:44

on this thing. That is crazy. And it could be

on this thing. That is crazy. And it could be

06:47

it could easily be double that. But, but that is a a really awesome and impressive,

it could easily be double that. But, but that is a a really awesome and impressive,

06:53

like, way to take this niche hobby, take find a find a kind of media publication that that that works and go content to commerce. Right? This is the, what's the,

like, way to take this niche hobby, take find a find a kind of media publication that that that works and go content to commerce. Right? This is the, what's the,

07:03

churning group churning group believes in this, the content to commerce. So they they did,

churning group churning group believes in this, the content to commerce. So they they did,

07:08

bar two. Which is what Hodinke did. Hodinke did this for watches. Right? Watchblog

bar two. Which is what Hodinke did. Hodinke did this for watches. Right? Watchblog

07:13

for super high end watches? Well, guess what? As soon as you start selling watches. That business I think Kevin Rose came on this podcast and said it went from one or two million a year in revenue to a hundred million when they flipped that switch and started actually selling the watches that they had been about for fifteen, twenty years. And, so content to commerce is this kind of, like, really interesting play. And I think that,

for super high end watches? Well, guess what? As soon as you start selling watches. That business I think Kevin Rose came on this podcast and said it went from one or two million a year in revenue to a hundred million when they flipped that switch and started actually selling the watches that they had been about for fifteen, twenty years. And, so content to commerce is this kind of, like, really interesting play. And I think that,

07:33

this is a great example of it being done well. Yeah. Look, you have Buzzfeed doing it with stuffed animals, which is pretty lame. You know, they did that with houses.

this is a great example of it being done well. Yeah. Look, you have Buzzfeed doing it with stuffed animals, which is pretty lame. You know, they did that with houses.

07:41

They did it with with houses. And this is baller

They did it with with houses. And this is baller

07:44

Craig told me about this about a year and a half ago, and I was like, this is very bold. And he was explaining it to me, and he was very confident. And it was, like, no big deal. And I was thinking about this. And I was, like, I don't know. This kinda seems like a really big deal. Yeah. We should do. Was like, I don't think you're gonna be able to pull this off. Well, I didn't say that, but in my head, I was like, this is ridiculous.

Craig told me about this about a year and a half ago, and I was like, this is very bold. And he was explaining it to me, and he was very confident. And it was, like, no big deal. And I was thinking about this. And I was, like, I don't know. This kinda seems like a really big deal. Yeah. We should do. Was like, I don't think you're gonna be able to pull this off. Well, I didn't say that, but in my head, I was like, this is ridiculous.

08:04

He totally did. They totally pulled it off.

He totally did. They totally pulled it off.

08:07

We,

We,

08:08

we did this way back in the day. I think you had said something you were like ads are lame. This is before HubSpot bought the podcast. So it was basically like ads are lame, we're selling ads with podcasts, but, like, what would be a better business for, for my first million to do? And I think at the time, people were like, you should create, like, a WeWork like, a branded version of WeWork or like a white label, like, coworking space or something like that. Which sounded crazy. But I actually think that there was a version of that that that's true. Like, basically, if we just bought like a a unit or sixteen unit apartment building,

we did this way back in the day. I think you had said something you were like ads are lame. This is before HubSpot bought the podcast. So it was basically like ads are lame, we're selling ads with podcasts, but, like, what would be a better business for, for my first million to do? And I think at the time, people were like, you should create, like, a WeWork like, a branded version of WeWork or like a white label, like, coworking space or something like that. Which sounded crazy. But I actually think that there was a version of that that that's true. Like, basically, if we just bought like a a unit or sixteen unit apartment building,

08:38

in San Francisco, but it was only You could only go rent there if you were part of our community or you could buy units there if you were part of our community. Something like that could work.

in San Francisco, but it was only You could only go rent there if you were part of our community or you could buy units there if you were part of our community. Something like that could work.

08:48

Because people would rather live in a community of like minded people than a community of absolute strangers. I think there's a huge number of people that would do that. And so then you get into the real estate game. These units in San Francisco go for, you know, a million and a half, two million dollars on average. You know, they they so so you could do these things where you, you know, in theory, a a brand like ours could also do that and say, yeah, if you wanna be around other entrepreneurs, other business people who are you know, share this kinda, like, this ethos that we have, then, you know, you could do that.

Because people would rather live in a community of like minded people than a community of absolute strangers. I think there's a huge number of people that would do that. And so then you get into the real estate game. These units in San Francisco go for, you know, a million and a half, two million dollars on average. You know, they they so so you could do these things where you, you know, in theory, a a brand like ours could also do that and say, yeah, if you wanna be around other entrepreneurs, other business people who are you know, share this kinda, like, this ethos that we have, then, you know, you could do that.

09:19

But there's a problem. Which is you and I, I don't know about you. Me, I wasn't even bold enough to, like, consider that. I thought that was stupid. Now I've got a little bit more experience and I kind of understand, like, our poll a little bit. Now I actually think that that could work. But at the time, I was like, that's ridiculous. There's there's no way that would work.

But there's a problem. Which is you and I, I don't know about you. Me, I wasn't even bold enough to, like, consider that. I thought that was stupid. Now I've got a little bit more experience and I kind of understand, like, our poll a little bit. Now I actually think that that could work. But at the time, I was like, that's ridiculous. There's there's no way that would work.

09:36

Dude, my brain is like a metal detector that's just looking for something gonna scare me to do. I'm just like, where can I get the maximum thrill, the business thrill? Like, we're gonna get the maximum reward

Dude, my brain is like a metal detector that's just looking for something gonna scare me to do. I'm just like, where can I get the maximum thrill, the business thrill? Like, we're gonna get the maximum reward

09:47

plus I'm down with the risk and

plus I'm down with the risk and

09:49

saying, like, if I said out loud that I was doing this, that I think would get other people's attention, but it would also make me a little scared because I don't know exactly how to do it. Like, the I am very attracted to

saying, like, if I said out loud that I was doing this, that I think would get other people's attention, but it would also make me a little scared because I don't know exactly how to do it. Like, the I am very attracted to

09:59

these ideas. And there's that's not always a good thing. I think that's a bad thing in many cases, but,

these ideas. And there's that's not always a good thing. I think that's a bad thing in many cases, but,

10:04

but I'm

but I'm

10:06

I hear that and I wanna run into the fire a little bit, whereas I think you hear that you're like, there's a fire. Why would I run? No. No. No. No. No. Now now I'm more comfortable because I've seen some I've seen, like, well, if you do this, this, and this, the odds of some type of,

I hear that and I wanna run into the fire a little bit, whereas I think you hear that you're like, there's a fire. Why would I run? No. No. No. No. No. Now now I'm more comfortable because I've seen some I've seen, like, well, if you do this, this, and this, the odds of some type of,

10:19

return

return

10:20

is is positive. But, like, before, I was still kinda understanding, like, that mechanics of business and, like, investing and things like that. Now I actually do see it. We're like the opposites. We're like the opposite. I get excited by that weird kind of like kinda half figured out thing and you're like, well, why don't you I wanna figure it out first. But then once you do figure it out, you're like,

is is positive. But, like, before, I was still kinda understanding, like, that mechanics of business and, like, investing and things like that. Now I actually do see it. We're like the opposites. We're like the opposite. I get excited by that weird kind of like kinda half figured out thing and you're like, well, why don't you I wanna figure it out first. But then once you do figure it out, you're like,

10:41

you're like, go and you just execute and you're like locked in and you just you just freaking go on that opportunity.

you're like, go and you just execute and you're like locked in and you just you just freaking go on that opportunity.

10:48

Whereas I'm like, oh, this is cool. It's kinda figured out. Alright. Cool.

Whereas I'm like, oh, this is cool. It's kinda figured out. Alright. Cool.

10:52

Like, I'll kinda go there, but, oh, there's this other interesting thing over here that's, like, you know, half figured out. And I I'm not as good lock in as you are. You get bored after you figured out the puzzle.

Like, I'll kinda go there, but, oh, there's this other interesting thing over here that's, like, you know, half figured out. And I I'm not as good lock in as you are. You get bored after you figured out the puzzle.

11:01

Exactly.

Exactly.

11:02

Yeah. But for me, I have to figure out a little bit more. And, like, I want, like, a higher certainty that the puzzle are even gonna be able to fit fit fit together. You know what I'm saying? Right. Right. Exactly. And then once the puzzle's done, you're you're, like, my puzzle. I love this puzzle.

Yeah. But for me, I have to figure out a little bit more. And, like, I want, like, a higher certainty that the puzzle are even gonna be able to fit fit fit together. You know what I'm saying? Right. Right. Exactly. And then once the puzzle's done, you're you're, like, my puzzle. I love this puzzle.

11:15

Dude, this is my puzzle.

Dude, this is my puzzle.

11:18

I'll tell you an example. So, Sean and I are going to Vancouver Wednesday, I think. And we're doing this little,

I'll tell you an example. So, Sean and I are going to Vancouver Wednesday, I think. And we're doing this little,

11:25

meetup with us and Andrew Wilkinson.

meetup with us and Andrew Wilkinson.

11:27

And this wasn't even that well organized. Like, they've done a good job of it, but, like, there's no they've not maybe it well organized isn't the right word because that sounds insulting. It was just kinda low key. Like, we just have like a type form that you have to sign up for, and that's it. And then you pay fifty bucks to show up, and I think you get a refund if you show up. I think they're doing it to, like, guarantee seats. Like, the people listening to the pod, if they say, how do I sign up? I don't even know where to I I don't know where to go. We're doing a meetup, but it's in stealth mode for no reason. I don't know what I don't know what the organizer guys doing, but it just doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to me. No. What's the venue?

And this wasn't even that well organized. Like, they've done a good job of it, but, like, there's no they've not maybe it well organized isn't the right word because that sounds insulting. It was just kinda low key. Like, we just have like a type form that you have to sign up for, and that's it. And then you pay fifty bucks to show up, and I think you get a refund if you show up. I think they're doing it to, like, guarantee seats. Like, the people listening to the pod, if they say, how do I sign up? I don't even know where to I I don't know where to go. We're doing a meetup, but it's in stealth mode for no reason. I don't know what I don't know what the organizer guys doing, but it just doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to me. No. What's the venue?

12:00

And date and time.

And date and time.

12:02

Man, we're it's all coming together. We're working on it. It's like, yo. I don't know. I don't know. This fire festival. What's happening here? And then he they refunded the money. And I'm like, well, I could've used that money on, like, my flights and hotel. I wish I wish, you know, like, I'm paying money to go and do this. It would've been cool because, like, the thing, it made, like, fifty or a hundred grand. I'm like, you know, give me, like, three thousand to pay for my stuff.

Man, we're it's all coming together. We're working on it. It's like, yo. I don't know. I don't know. This fire festival. What's happening here? And then he they refunded the money. And I'm like, well, I could've used that money on, like, my flights and hotel. I wish I wish, you know, like, I'm paying money to go and do this. It would've been cool because, like, the thing, it made, like, fifty or a hundred grand. I'm like, you know, give me, like, three thousand to pay for my stuff.

12:22

But, when I when I've kind of, like, realized that we are able to pull off some of this stuff, I'm like, oh, hey, we can get people The the the thing with media

But, when I when I've kind of, like, realized that we are able to pull off some of this stuff, I'm like, oh, hey, we can get people The the the thing with media

12:30

is if you can get people to buy shit or leave your home, so like if you say I'm gonna be at this location at this time, the if you were able to get people to do that, that means you have pull. And once every once in a while, when we pull that off, then I'm like, oh, we could this off, something like this. We still could. We still can. Then I I I I start to believe it.

is if you can get people to buy shit or leave your home, so like if you say I'm gonna be at this location at this time, the if you were able to get people to do that, that means you have pull. And once every once in a while, when we pull that off, then I'm like, oh, we could this off, something like this. We still could. We still can. Then I I I I start to believe it.

12:49

Yeah. That's interesting. Actually, that's a good metric because,

Yeah. That's interesting. Actually, that's a good metric because,

12:52

I've been trying to think about on the content side. I'm like, you know, I wanna set a goal because I think, I work better when I have a goal.

I've been trying to think about on the content side. I'm like, you know, I wanna set a goal because I think, I work better when I have a goal.

13:02

You have to get context. The context is Sean is now he's considering or planning or doing to go harder on creating content. Yeah.

You have to get context. The context is Sean is now he's considering or planning or doing to go harder on creating content. Yeah.

13:09

Yeah. Exactly. Sounds lame. I'm not even gonna say those words, content creator sounds like lame. I'm a I'm a come up with my own words, but, like, yeah, the idea is, hey, I like doing this thing where I get to just, like, learn about stuff, talk about it, and people seem to like it. Podcast is one version of that. The newsletter is another version, etcetera.

Yeah. Exactly. Sounds lame. I'm not even gonna say those words, content creator sounds like lame. I'm a I'm a come up with my own words, but, like, yeah, the idea is, hey, I like doing this thing where I get to just, like, learn about stuff, talk about it, and people seem to like it. Podcast is one version of that. The newsletter is another version, etcetera.

13:25

And,

And,

13:26

Anyways, the point is I was like, what's a what's a good goal for this? And I was like, oh, million,

Anyways, the point is I was like, what's a what's a good goal for this? And I was like, oh, million,

13:32

ten million

ten million

13:33

subscribers, fans. No. What what do I want here? And I was like, And then I was like, intuitively, there's something more like,

subscribers, fans. No. What what do I want here? And I was like, And then I was like, intuitively, there's something more like,

13:40

that Kevin Kelly thing, the true fans, thousand true fans, where it's like, He wrote this blog post. That's amazing. That's called a thousand true fans. Basically says,

that Kevin Kelly thing, the true fans, thousand true fans, where it's like, He wrote this blog post. That's amazing. That's called a thousand true fans. Basically says,

13:48

if you can have if you can have a thousand true fans, a true fan being somebody who would pay a hundred dollars across the course of a year, they'll buy your shirt. They'll show up, you know, for your event. They'll buy your tickets. They'll do whatever because they really like your stuff. And, like, you know, for an artist, if you're somebody who's just creating a thousand people who are gonna pay a hundred bucks, sounds kind of achievable. Doesn't that's not like I'm gonna be the next you know, Justin Bieber or whatever.

if you can have if you can have a thousand true fans, a true fan being somebody who would pay a hundred dollars across the course of a year, they'll buy your shirt. They'll show up, you know, for your event. They'll buy your tickets. They'll do whatever because they really like your stuff. And, like, you know, for an artist, if you're somebody who's just creating a thousand people who are gonna pay a hundred bucks, sounds kind of achievable. Doesn't that's not like I'm gonna be the next you know, Justin Bieber or whatever.

14:11

And it's a hundred grand. And, like, you could make a living doing what you love if you get to that point. That was, like, one of the original things that I think inspired a lot of content creators online.

And it's a hundred grand. And, like, you could make a living doing what you love if you get to that point. That was, like, one of the original things that I think inspired a lot of content creators online.

14:19

And, I was like, oh, maybe something like true fans, but how do you measure a true fan? I guess it's this hundred dollar spend thing. But I think this thing you're saying is actually true, which is,

And, I was like, oh, maybe something like true fans, but how do you measure a true fan? I guess it's this hundred dollar spend thing. But I think this thing you're saying is actually true, which is,

14:27

It's like a a test. It's like, if I just tweeted, hey, I'm hanging out at this coffee shop right now in San Francisco.

It's like a a test. It's like, if I just tweeted, hey, I'm hanging out at this coffee shop right now in San Francisco.

14:34

How many people would show up? And, like, I think three years ago, that answer was zero to zero to two. You know, like, maybe just my actual friends who I who I hadn't caught up with in a while.

How many people would show up? And, like, I think three years ago, that answer was zero to zero to two. You know, like, maybe just my actual friends who I who I hadn't caught up with in a while.

14:46

You know, now I don't know what that number would be, but probably what do you think? If I did that, I have no idea. Well, if you No. A thousands would be crazy. But if I was, you know, you're all day. So it's not like If you gave it a if if you gave it a two week window or, a two week notice,

You know, now I don't know what that number would be, but probably what do you think? If I did that, I have no idea. Well, if you No. A thousands would be crazy. But if I was, you know, you're all day. So it's not like If you gave it a if if you gave it a two week window or, a two week notice,

15:01

two to four week notice, I think you can get caught. I'm saying same day. I'm just I'm gonna be here all day. Swing by if you're around. Fifty to a hundred, I bet. Fifty to a hundred. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that there's

two to four week notice, I think you can get caught. I'm saying same day. I'm just I'm gonna be here all day. Swing by if you're around. Fifty to a hundred, I bet. Fifty to a hundred. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that there's

15:12

That's probably that's great. That's that's amazing.

That's probably that's great. That's that's amazing.

15:15

There's some point where it's like, the coffee shop's like, what the fuck is happening? There there's, like, There's too many people here guys. What what is this? There's some point where you break the coffee shop. And I'm like, okay. There's some way of testing that because

There's some point where it's like, the coffee shop's like, what the fuck is happening? There there's, like, There's too many people here guys. What what is this? There's some point where you break the coffee shop. And I'm like, okay. There's some way of testing that because

15:30

I think what most people go is for reach,

I think what most people go is for reach,

15:33

and they get really tricked by these platforms that are like, yeah, your video got ninety five thousand views.

and they get really tricked by these platforms that are like, yeah, your video got ninety five thousand views.

15:39

And say, cool.

And say, cool.

15:40

How many of them actually watch this versus just swiped by it? Or if they want, like, do how many of those ninety five thousand people know your name? How many of them know anything about you? How many of them care about you? Right? Like and so I think what most people do is they get they just take what they're fed.

How many of them actually watch this versus just swiped by it? Or if they want, like, do how many of those ninety five thousand people know your name? How many of them know anything about you? How many of them care about you? Right? Like and so I think what most people do is they get they just take what they're fed.

15:54

And they're fed basically

And they're fed basically

15:56

the most

the most

15:57

large vanity useless number. And I think for any business, you wanna find not the vanity metric, but the true metric that actually shows

large vanity useless number. And I think for any business, you wanna find not the vanity metric, but the true metric that actually shows

16:06

like the level of engagement you have, the level of love that your product has.

like the level of engagement you have, the level of love that your product has.

16:10

And so, and and different business different companies have, like, different ways of looking at this Facebook back in the day, one of their metrics that mattered was they were like, yeah. Of all of our sign ups, fifty percent of them use this every day.

And so, and and different business different companies have, like, different ways of looking at this Facebook back in the day, one of their metrics that mattered was they were like, yeah. Of all of our sign ups, fifty percent of them use this every day.

16:23

And that became this thing that was like, okay. The it's not that they have the most sign ups, like MySpace has way more. But, man, this Facebook thing, like, Half to use half of the total sign ups are using it every single day. That's gotta mean something. And the people that were able to identify that inside the company and as investors,

And that became this thing that was like, okay. The it's not that they have the most sign ups, like MySpace has way more. But, man, this Facebook thing, like, Half to use half of the total sign ups are using it every single day. That's gotta mean something. And the people that were able to identify that inside the company and as investors,

16:40

got mega mega rich, whereas other people were just chasing, like, a total user count number, but they didn't really, like, have a the good way to measure it. I think there's something to, like, finding the real metric that matters. At the hustle, what did you guys use? Cause you could have just said subscribers

got mega mega rich, whereas other people were just chasing, like, a total user count number, but they didn't really, like, have a the good way to measure it. I think there's something to, like, finding the real metric that matters. At the hustle, what did you guys use? Cause you could have just said subscribers

16:56

Right? But that wasn't, like, quite the that wasn't just the thing. Like, do you have any examples of finding the real metric that matters? Dude, I we we would just do replies And so every once in a while, I would purposely either write about something that was a bit controversial,

Right? But that wasn't, like, quite the that wasn't just the thing. Like, do you have any examples of finding the real metric that matters? Dude, I we we would just do replies And so every once in a while, I would purposely either write about something that was a bit controversial,

17:09

or I would purposely TIPos, and I would just see how many people reply and say that they saw a typo

or I would purposely TIPos, and I would just see how many people reply and say that they saw a typo

17:15

or at at the very bottom of the email. And I told you to do this, and I think you did do it. I would say

or at at the very bottom of the email. And I told you to do this, and I think you did do it. I would say

17:21

where where what city are you in right now? Send me a or I would say,

where where what city are you in right now? Send me a or I would say,

17:25

I'm working from this brand new desk. It's called this. I love it. Take take a pick of your workspace. Let me see it. Yep. And it would be just how many people are gonna take a picture and and reply back to the email. And there was a time where we at the very bottom of the email, we said we're gonna send out stickers to everyone that replies.

I'm working from this brand new desk. It's called this. I love it. Take take a pick of your workspace. Let me see it. Yep. And it would be just how many people are gonna take a picture and and reply back to the email. And there was a time where we at the very bottom of the email, we said we're gonna send out stickers to everyone that replies.

17:44

And we got like ten thousand replies. So we had to like mail at ten thousand stickers. And so we would do little things like that where and this we got like ten thousand replies on like a hundred thousand subscribers. And so I remember, like, anytime we get a reply from an email, that's a that's a really good sign.

And we got like ten thousand replies. So we had to like mail at ten thousand stickers. And so we would do little things like that where and this we got like ten thousand replies on like a hundred thousand subscribers. And so I remember, like, anytime we get a reply from an email, that's a that's a really good sign.

17:59

Right. And, like, I see this all the time with, newsletters now because sub stat has this feature where if you subscribe to one newsletter, like, I read something. I'm like, yeah, I like this. I subscribe. It pops up this full screen thing, which is just like, Sean recommends these five newsletters and there's only one button and you're just like, okay. Next, if you hit that and now you're subscribed five newsletters. And you can see people on sub stack, they're like, Wow. My new my growth is crazy. I'm hitting a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand. No. But it's bullshit.

Right. And, like, I see this all the time with, newsletters now because sub stat has this feature where if you subscribe to one newsletter, like, I read something. I'm like, yeah, I like this. I subscribe. It pops up this full screen thing, which is just like, Sean recommends these five newsletters and there's only one button and you're just like, okay. Next, if you hit that and now you're subscribed five newsletters. And you can see people on sub stack, they're like, Wow. My new my growth is crazy. I'm hitting a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand. No. But it's bullshit.

18:26

Dude, it's all bullshit. And so and Subsack's like, this is awesome. When they're showing this, I'm sure in their investor presentation. Look at this. Now we drive the majority of subscriber growth for our newsletters. There's a network effect here. It's like, no, it's not a network effect. It's a giant screen where people click next. Like, I used to do this with our mobile apps. It's like, oh, if I wanna if I want this app to grow, let me just pop up a screen. Where it's your entire contact list, everybody pre checked. There's one big button that says next, and there's a tiny black x that's, like, hidden in the top left corner. If you could see that you're gonna skip it. And, like, Everybody wants to skip it, but two out of two out of every ten people are just going fast and they're just gonna hit the button and they just spammed all of their contacts. And guess what? My app goes viral. Is it really viral? Are they sharing it because they like this product? No. They're sharing it because I tricked them into spamming, basically. And Substack does the same thing. They really trick people into subscribing to these newsletters. This is my opinion. I'm sure they would disagree and say, no. No. No. No.

Dude, it's all bullshit. And so and Subsack's like, this is awesome. When they're showing this, I'm sure in their investor presentation. Look at this. Now we drive the majority of subscriber growth for our newsletters. There's a network effect here. It's like, no, it's not a network effect. It's a giant screen where people click next. Like, I used to do this with our mobile apps. It's like, oh, if I wanna if I want this app to grow, let me just pop up a screen. Where it's your entire contact list, everybody pre checked. There's one big button that says next, and there's a tiny black x that's, like, hidden in the top left corner. If you could see that you're gonna skip it. And, like, Everybody wants to skip it, but two out of two out of every ten people are just going fast and they're just gonna hit the button and they just spammed all of their contacts. And guess what? My app goes viral. Is it really viral? Are they sharing it because they like this product? No. They're sharing it because I tricked them into spamming, basically. And Substack does the same thing. They really trick people into subscribing to these newsletters. This is my opinion. I'm sure they would disagree and say, no. No. No. No.

19:18

People just really want to be referred five newsletters every time they've subscribed to one. I I don't believe that for a second.

People just really want to be referred five newsletters every time they've subscribed to one. I I don't believe that for a second.

19:25

This happens with podcasts. There's a very popular

This happens with podcasts. There's a very popular

19:28

business podcast.

business podcast.

19:29

I like the guy, but I think his numbers are BS. It's, you know, I say the name? I don't know if I I should say the name, but like Do it.

I like the guy, but I think his numbers are BS. It's, you know, I say the name? I don't know if I I should say the name, but like Do it.

19:37

Let's just say

Let's just say

19:39

it's about thirty minute VC. It's a little less than that.

it's about thirty minute VC. It's a little less than that.

19:44

Leave it to your imagination for you. No. He's a he's a great guy, and he's done a great job building his podcast up. He'll tweet out these things where he'll be like, two million

Leave it to your imagination for you. No. He's a he's a great guy, and he's done a great job building his podcast up. He'll tweet out these things where he'll be like, two million

19:53

people listen to the last week's episode with this person. And I'm just like, dude, There's just no way in hell. That's Joe rogan numbers. That's j

people listen to the last week's episode with this person. And I'm just like, dude, There's just no way in hell. That's Joe rogan numbers. That's j

20:02

there is not two million people.

there is not two million people.

20:05

I know we we we have a podcast I could see where we are in the ranks. I could see where he is in the ranks. I know other people that are on top of the charts. You could look on the views. You could just see the cult following of certain things. Like, if you said, You know, the all in podcast is getting a million views per episode. I think that's true. I think that they they really tapped into something. Yeah. You could see the YouTube numbers. You could it could think about where where the podcast charges. I think it's doing at least a million probably closer to two per episode. They do once a week. It's super high quality. It's got a broad appeal the numbers match the the data matches up to that signal.

I know we we we have a podcast I could see where we are in the ranks. I could see where he is in the ranks. I know other people that are on top of the charts. You could look on the views. You could just see the cult following of certain things. Like, if you said, You know, the all in podcast is getting a million views per episode. I think that's true. I think that they they really tapped into something. Yeah. You could see the YouTube numbers. You could it could think about where where the podcast charges. I think it's doing at least a million probably closer to two per episode. They do once a week. It's super high quality. It's got a broad appeal the numbers match the the data matches up to that signal.

20:38

But when you're like, oh, dude. Yeah. I get two million per episode for my super, you know, my talk with the third

But when you're like, oh, dude. Yeah. I get two million per episode for my super, you know, my talk with the third

20:44

least well known partner at this fund. I I'm just like, there's no no chance. And I think I even asked him once I was like, dude, how are you getting these numbers? That sounds like off the charts, for what, like, a a business or tech podcast of of of this, you know, size could do.

least well known partner at this fund. I I'm just like, there's no no chance. And I think I even asked him once I was like, dude, how are you getting these numbers? That sounds like off the charts, for what, like, a a business or tech podcast of of of this, you know, size could do.

20:58

And he's like, oh, yeah. We have big audience in Asia, wherever. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Well,

And he's like, oh, yeah. We have big audience in Asia, wherever. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Well,

21:03

I've been in the internet game long enough to know, like,

I've been in the internet game long enough to know, like,

21:07

like, dude, I bought my first five thousand Twitter followers. Right? Like, I I know that you could get a you can get any number by doing anything on the internet, and it doesn't mean anything, especially for something like podcasts, is like newsletter subscribers. That's like the hardest thing ever to have to do. You click once

like, dude, I bought my first five thousand Twitter followers. Right? Like, I I know that you could get a you can get any number by doing anything on the internet, and it doesn't mean anything, especially for something like podcasts, is like newsletter subscribers. That's like the hardest thing ever to have to do. You click once

21:21

and now you're a a consumer of everything else. Nobody could even measure on podcasting if anybody's actually listening to these things. And so,

and now you're a a consumer of everything else. Nobody could even measure on podcasting if anybody's actually listening to these things. And so,

21:30

yeah, I can go get a bunch of people to click subscribe one

yeah, I can go get a bunch of people to click subscribe one

21:32

time And it will auto download my feed every time I release in the episode. Like, there was a guy, Nathan Makka that was doing this too. He was, like, we get this many downloads per month. And I was like, oh, what's a couple million downloads a month? That's pretty good. Huge. Yeah.

time And it will auto download my feed every time I release in the episode. Like, there was a guy, Nathan Makka that was doing this too. He was, like, we get this many downloads per month. And I was like, oh, what's a couple million downloads a month? That's pretty good. Huge. Yeah.

21:46

What do you do? And and, basically, he was like,

What do you do? And and, basically, he was like,

21:48

And I I when I talked to him, I was like, he's like, hey, welcome to the show, Sean, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, he's going like hyper speed five minutes. The podcast was over. And I was like, a five minute episode. He's like, yes. Sorry. I gotta hop to the next one. I was like, how many of these you record in a day? He's like, I record eight of these a day. And then we release, like, whatever. Who's on some crazy schedule. And then I did the math and I was like, oh, he has, like, seven thousand subscribers, but he just releases

And I I when I talked to him, I was like, he's like, hey, welcome to the show, Sean, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, he's going like hyper speed five minutes. The podcast was over. And I was like, a five minute episode. He's like, yes. Sorry. I gotta hop to the next one. I was like, how many of these you record in a day? He's like, I record eight of these a day. And then we release, like, whatever. Who's on some crazy schedule. And then I did the math and I was like, oh, he has, like, seven thousand subscribers, but he just releases

22:10

huge volume of random episodes of these five minute episodes. And so his total monthly number

huge volume of random episodes of these five minute episodes. And so his total monthly number

22:16

because podcast is just like, you know, if you just do downloads, it just adds up all your episodes times your number of subscribers. You can have a small number subscribers and do a huge number of download a huge number of episodes and get a big download number. And so people, I think, use these vanity metrics all the time and their their BS.

because podcast is just like, you know, if you just do downloads, it just adds up all your episodes times your number of subscribers. You can have a small number subscribers and do a huge number of download a huge number of episodes and get a big download number. And so people, I think, use these vanity metrics all the time and their their BS.

22:31

So I well, I'll bring this up because we're discussing it, but I didn't research it fully. But have you heard of,

So I well, I'll bring this up because we're discussing it, but I didn't research it fully. But have you heard of,

22:37

Parcast?

Parcast?

22:38

It's like my name, but Cast. So Parcast. Have you ever heard of that? Are you are are you spinning off your own solo? Did the brand break up band break up and you're doing your own ups? No.

It's like my name, but Cast. So Parcast. Have you ever heard of that? Are you are are you spinning off your own solo? Did the brand break up band break up and you're doing your own ups? No.

22:48

I I I wish I invented this. So it's a guy named Max Cutler. I think he's our age. I think he's like thirty one, thirty two, thirty three. So this got a Max cutler created this thing called Parcast. And the whole idea of it is it's a podcast network,

I I I wish I invented this. So it's a guy named Max Cutler. I think he's our age. I think he's like thirty one, thirty two, thirty three. So this got a Max cutler created this thing called Parcast. And the whole idea of it is it's a podcast network,

23:02

but they,

but they,

23:03

They only have -- Like, true crime. -- true crime. And

They only have -- Like, true crime. -- true crime. And

23:07

I'm a weirdo. You wanna know what I listen to every night. There's two podcasts I listen to every night. The first one is just called

I'm a weirdo. You wanna know what I listen to every night. There's two podcasts I listen to every night. The first one is just called

23:14

serial killers.

serial killers.

23:15

So it

So it

23:17

it's it's it's it's just a a bunch of podcasts about serial killers. I can I I can tell you all? I gotta I got I got my fantasy,

it's it's it's it's just a a bunch of podcasts about serial killers. I can I I can tell you all? I gotta I got I got my fantasy,

23:23

league of serial killers, you know, with Ted Buddy as the quarterback.

league of serial killers, you know, with Ted Buddy as the quarterback.

23:27

And then there's another one called,

And then there's another one called,

23:30

you know, it's it's this one's fitting for going to sleep. It's called deathbed confessions.

you know, it's it's this one's fitting for going to sleep. It's called deathbed confessions.

23:34

So it's people who confess about a crime they did when they're dying. So it's just it's just nice. It's it's the best. So this guy started this and it's all scripted. So it has like voice actors and it's all scripted stuff. He bootstrapped this podcast company, which is unheard of, and he sold it to Spotify

So it's people who confess about a crime they did when they're dying. So it's just it's just nice. It's it's the best. So this guy started this and it's all scripted. So it has like voice actors and it's all scripted stuff. He bootstrapped this podcast company, which is unheard of, and he sold it to Spotify

23:50

for two hundred million dollars after only maybe five years.

for two hundred million dollars after only maybe five years.

23:55

And, him and his dad owned the whole company. His dad was in radio, and so his dad was, like, a radio announcer, something like that. And, they're producing something like thirty or forty podcasts a day, like episodes. And they're all highly produced stuff, and it's amazing. Have you have you not heard of this heard of this business. I've heard of this brand once before. I didn't realize that they I didn't re I didn't know the business side of it. I didn't know that they had bootstrapped it and sold it to Spotify, but I really I like true crime. I don't know where to start. There's like so many true crimes and a bad one is like such a waste of time. But,

And, him and his dad owned the whole company. His dad was in radio, and so his dad was, like, a radio announcer, something like that. And, they're producing something like thirty or forty podcasts a day, like episodes. And they're all highly produced stuff, and it's amazing. Have you have you not heard of this heard of this business. I've heard of this brand once before. I didn't realize that they I didn't re I didn't know the business side of it. I didn't know that they had bootstrapped it and sold it to Spotify, but I really I like true crime. I don't know where to start. There's like so many true crimes and a bad one is like such a waste of time. But,

24:28

yeah, I've seen some of their shows because I go sometimes look in the browse section for, for, like, you know, a good true crime. Dude, so true crime, if you go and look at so But you're good listeners.

yeah, I've seen some of their shows because I go sometimes look in the browse section for, for, like, you know, a good true crime. Dude, so true crime, if you go and look at so But you're good listeners.

24:38

If you look at, I like serial killers. Serial killers, dude, deathbed confessions is awesome. I'll send you a good death a professional one. They're so awesome. And true crime, it's, if you go to the podcast,

If you look at, I like serial killers. Serial killers, dude, deathbed confessions is awesome. I'll send you a good death a professional one. They're so awesome. And true crime, it's, if you go to the podcast,

24:48

app and you look at, like, what are the top ep episodes or shows.

app and you look at, like, what are the top ep episodes or shows.

24:52

It's always like thirty or forty percent true crime, and which is it's mostly women who listen to it. And it's all we and so, like, date line. I told you about this date line from NBC, which is a show that's been around for twenty or thirty years at this point. It's still usually a top podcast every single week. And so these true crime folks, they kill it. And this guy bootstrapped this company,

It's always like thirty or forty percent true crime, and which is it's mostly women who listen to it. And it's all we and so, like, date line. I told you about this date line from NBC, which is a show that's been around for twenty or thirty years at this point. It's still usually a top podcast every single week. And so these true crime folks, they kill it. And this guy bootstrapped this company,

25:15

to a think it was a hundred million cash and then a a hundred another hundred million earn out, all off of these true crime podcasts. He killed it. It's a really interesting story. I'm gonna have to I'll dive deep and do some better research on it, but I was reading about it, this weekend. It's it's a pretty amazing outcome this guy had.

to a think it was a hundred million cash and then a a hundred another hundred million earn out, all off of these true crime podcasts. He killed it. It's a really interesting story. I'm gonna have to I'll dive deep and do some better research on it, but I was reading about it, this weekend. It's it's a pretty amazing outcome this guy had.

25:31

I just read it article. This might be maybe wrong or maybe you're wrong. I don't know. Spotify confirms it paid fifty six million for podcast or a podcast. Sorry.

I just read it article. This might be maybe wrong or maybe you're wrong. I don't know. Spotify confirms it paid fifty six million for podcast or a podcast. Sorry.

25:39

Then maybe I got my numbers wrong. It would I think it was fifty six and then another, like, seventy five outcome. It was a nine figure out, another another attention.

Then maybe I got my numbers wrong. It would I think it was fifty six and then another, like, seventy five outcome. It was a nine figure out, another another attention.

25:47

There was a retention. According to the the podcast Wikipedia, which reads as if Max cutler, the founder wrote it. It's very, like, congratulatory.

There was a retention. According to the the podcast Wikipedia, which reads as if Max cutler, the founder wrote it. It's very, like, congratulatory.

25:56

It it says there's like a huge turnout.

It it says there's like a huge turnout.

25:58

Yeah. I don't know if I trust anyone that does true crap, by the way. These guys are natural storytellers

Yeah. I don't know if I trust anyone that does true crap, by the way. These guys are natural storytellers

26:04

and, like, liars

and, like, liars

26:05

Dude, alright. I've got an interesting thing to bring up. This is,

Dude, alright. I've got an interesting thing to bring up. This is,

26:09

something that we talked about a while ago. I think you brought this in two thousand twenty or twenty one. I forget. Right? When when we were recording in the original hustle office, so do you remember that company crumble that you brought up?

something that we talked about a while ago. I think you brought this in two thousand twenty or twenty one. I forget. Right? When when we were recording in the original hustle office, so do you remember that company crumble that you brought up?

26:21

Yeah. Well, first of all, I love a good I told you so. So I'm already I'm already glowing.

Yeah. Well, first of all, I love a good I told you so. So I'm already I'm already glowing.

26:25

Yeah. Dude, you've got crumbled crumbled crumbled cookies.

Yeah. Dude, you've got crumbled crumbled crumbled cookies.

26:28

Crumble cookies. So when you originally told me about it, the story was something like these two brothers or two cousins launched this thing. And for some reason in my head, I'm thinking, like, a family, like, cooking, making cookies in their, like, kitchen, and they start this, like, pandemic thing, and it gets popular. And, basically, once a week, they tweet out a new menu and may have a drop, you know, things that, like, typically supreme does or, like, these but they're doing it with, like, outrageous flavored cookies.

Crumble cookies. So when you originally told me about it, the story was something like these two brothers or two cousins launched this thing. And for some reason in my head, I'm thinking, like, a family, like, cooking, making cookies in their, like, kitchen, and they start this, like, pandemic thing, and it gets popular. And, basically, once a week, they tweet out a new menu and may have a drop, you know, things that, like, typically supreme does or, like, these but they're doing it with, like, outrageous flavored cookies.

26:55

Well,

Well,

26:56

that's not entirely true. They what is true is they do do these drops, but it's a massive business. And some sources are saying it's close to, like, eight hundred million a year in revenue.

that's not entirely true. They what is true is they do do these drops, but it's a massive business. And some sources are saying it's close to, like, eight hundred million a year in revenue.

27:05

And the reason I saw it was someone shared this on Twitter, but basically over the last, like, couple months. It's been growing and growing and growing. And so the other day, it was like the number fourth most downloaded app in the week. And so they have an app. And so their app now has two point three million ratings or reviews with, like, with a four point nine average.

And the reason I saw it was someone shared this on Twitter, but basically over the last, like, couple months. It's been growing and growing and growing. And so the other day, it was like the number fourth most downloaded app in the week. And so they have an app. And so their app now has two point three million ratings or reviews with, like, with a four point nine average.

27:26

And what and right now, they're they're opening brick and mortar they're opening a new store every five days. They have something like seven hundred and thirty stores at the moment, and it's one of the fastest growing chains in America. And so these guys, check listen to these numbers. Have eight hundred thousand followers on Twitter, three point four on Instagram,

And what and right now, they're they're opening brick and mortar they're opening a new store every five days. They have something like seven hundred and thirty stores at the moment, and it's one of the fastest growing chains in America. And so these guys, check listen to these numbers. Have eight hundred thousand followers on Twitter, three point four on Instagram,

27:43

six point five on TikTok, one point two on YouTube, and they create these commercials

six point five on TikTok, one point two on YouTube, and they create these commercials

27:48

every single week for a new cookie drop, and it is crushing it. These guys are killing it. It's so fascinating. I never in a million years thought this was gonna work. As big as it has. But basically every Sunday at six PM, they do, like, a new drop, and their app just spikes and goes way up the charts. And they are

every single week for a new cookie drop, and it is crushing it. These guys are killing it. It's so fascinating. I never in a million years thought this was gonna work. As big as it has. But basically every Sunday at six PM, they do, like, a new drop, and their app just spikes and goes way up the charts. And they are

28:05

they're up there with, like, Uber Eats and all this stuff like that. They're killing it. And so I remember you brought this up. And in my head, I was like, oh, this is, like, a little, like, mom and pop Sounds cute. Like, oh, that's cute. Big fake Yeah. Like, oh, your aunt made cookies. That's nice. Yeah. No. They're sharks. They're killing it. And so you called that pretty early on. And, now it's a franchise. So here's, like, here's some stats. In chapter twenty one,

they're up there with, like, Uber Eats and all this stuff like that. They're killing it. And so I remember you brought this up. And in my head, I was like, oh, this is, like, a little, like, mom and pop Sounds cute. Like, oh, that's cute. Big fake Yeah. Like, oh, your aunt made cookies. That's nice. Yeah. No. They're sharks. They're killing it. And so you called that pretty early on. And, now it's a franchise. So here's, like, here's some stats. In chapter twenty one,

28:28

the highest revenue store did something like three point six million. Other stores did, the average was like one point six million. The store with the highest net it was six hundred thousand with the lowest being thirty three thousand with the average profit of being around three hundred and fifty thousand. And,

the highest revenue store did something like three point six million. Other stores did, the average was like one point six million. The store with the highest net it was six hundred thousand with the lowest being thirty three thousand with the average profit of being around three hundred and fifty thousand. And,

28:43

according to, the founder's Twitter, they did over a billion dollars in revenue.

according to, the founder's Twitter, they did over a billion dollars in revenue.

28:48

And you have to come up with a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and then you can open up a franchise, and they send you all of this traffic via their you know, their Instagram and their app. Super fascinating business. Yeah. This, I think that the franchise world, this is like the hottest franchise right now is crumble cookie.

And you have to come up with a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and then you can open up a franchise, and they send you all of this traffic via their you know, their Instagram and their app. Super fascinating business. Yeah. This, I think that the franchise world, this is like the hottest franchise right now is crumble cookie.

29:05

Because,

Because,

29:06

they're just exploding, and they're just super super popular right now. I do feel like this is not, like, the most sustainable franchise, like,

they're just exploding, and they're just super super popular right now. I do feel like this is not, like, the most sustainable franchise, like,

29:15

they at one point in time, wasn't like I think I feel like Froyo

they at one point in time, wasn't like I think I feel like Froyo

29:19

franchises were, like, growing like crazy like this. I don't know if it was Pinkberry or whoever else, like,

franchises were, like, growing like crazy like this. I don't know if it was Pinkberry or whoever else, like,

29:23

You know, there's these waves where this becomes the the treat, but, like,

You know, there's these waves where this becomes the the treat, but, like,

29:27

I don't know how many people are gonna, like, anything that's drop based There's a natural fatigue that sets in for the buyer. And,

I don't know how many people are gonna, like, anything that's drop based There's a natural fatigue that sets in for the buyer. And,

29:35

and the and there's, like, a vicious cycle. Like, drops when everybody's into the drop get even more fun because it's like the hunt and you've either got it or you didn't get it and you feel special. But as soon as that starts to soon as the drop fatigues start to kick in and now

and the and there's, like, a vicious cycle. Like, drops when everybody's into the drop get even more fun because it's like the hunt and you've either got it or you didn't get it and you feel special. But as soon as that starts to soon as the drop fatigues start to kick in and now

29:49

Oh, notifications there, but if I don't get it today, I can go get it tomorrow. Like, as soon as the scarcity's gone, the drop, like, plummets in value. And so I think that that's a, a challenge for for something like this. But, I agree, but look, here's the deal. I have a f you and I have a friend who buys broadband companies. So broadband companies are basically internet service providers, and a lot of people who are listening in the city will have no idea what I'm talking about. But where I have my country house, I have like, this ranch way out in the country, And if you live out the country, it's not like you're getting like Spectrum or Google or Warner or whatever the big service providers are in New York City. You're getting like a small internet provider that you pay a hundred bucks a month for, and they prob that company probably does ten million in revenue and, like, five million in profit. And you and I have a friend who goes out and buys these companies. And everyone says to him, What about StarLink yada yada yada. And he was like, yeah.

Oh, notifications there, but if I don't get it today, I can go get it tomorrow. Like, as soon as the scarcity's gone, the drop, like, plummets in value. And so I think that that's a, a challenge for for something like this. But, I agree, but look, here's the deal. I have a f you and I have a friend who buys broadband companies. So broadband companies are basically internet service providers, and a lot of people who are listening in the city will have no idea what I'm talking about. But where I have my country house, I have like, this ranch way out in the country, And if you live out the country, it's not like you're getting like Spectrum or Google or Warner or whatever the big service providers are in New York City. You're getting like a small internet provider that you pay a hundred bucks a month for, and they prob that company probably does ten million in revenue and, like, five million in profit. And you and I have a friend who goes out and buys these companies. And everyone says to him, What about StarLink yada yada yada. And he was like, yeah.

30:37

They'll they'll come eventually, but, like, until then, I'm making five million dollars a year in profit. So -- Right. -- with with this cookie thing, yeah, maybe they'll plateau, but a billion years is a nice plateau. I don't mind sitting on that plateau for a while. And that's kinda and that's kinda that's like how I whenever I hear some of these stories, like, it's not gonna grow. I'm like, yeah. That's cool.

They'll they'll come eventually, but, like, until then, I'm making five million dollars a year in profit. So -- Right. -- with with this cookie thing, yeah, maybe they'll plateau, but a billion years is a nice plateau. I don't mind sitting on that plateau for a while. And that's kinda and that's kinda that's like how I whenever I hear some of these stories, like, it's not gonna grow. I'm like, yeah. That's cool.

30:57

Sorry. I couldn't hear you the money counter with furring a little too loud in my ears.

Sorry. I couldn't hear you the money counter with furring a little too loud in my ears.

31:02

Right? That could actually if anybody asks me why I sold for two hundred million, you're getting a slap. Like, you know, just don't ask don't ask those stupid questions.

Right? That could actually if anybody asks me why I sold for two hundred million, you're getting a slap. Like, you know, just don't ask don't ask those stupid questions.

31:10

Dude, and and the founder, one of the cousins or one of the brothers, they, he previously worked in tech and he had a Facebook app. That got to, like, a hundred and twenty million followers. So these guys are, like, viral guys, they know how to do this, but interesting story. Yeah. Like, it looks like he was director of product ancestry, which is like one of the, like, it's just one of the gems of internet companies that's, like, really big, but nobody knows anybody who's, like, works there. Nobody nobody claims to use it, even though it's like really, really popular site and did a bunch of cool, like, viral things and, like, basically did a bunch of smart product stuff along the way to, like, make that business work.

Dude, and and the founder, one of the cousins or one of the brothers, they, he previously worked in tech and he had a Facebook app. That got to, like, a hundred and twenty million followers. So these guys are, like, viral guys, they know how to do this, but interesting story. Yeah. Like, it looks like he was director of product ancestry, which is like one of the, like, it's just one of the gems of internet companies that's, like, really big, but nobody knows anybody who's, like, works there. Nobody nobody claims to use it, even though it's like really, really popular site and did a bunch of cool, like, viral things and, like, basically did a bunch of smart product stuff along the way to, like, make that business work.

31:43

Dude ancestry is funny too because they're, a Utah based company and they're founded by Mormons. I like this guy's first business

Dude ancestry is funny too because they're, a Utah based company and they're founded by Mormons. I like this guy's first business

31:51

first business,

first business,

31:52

b y u dot com.

b y u dot com.

31:54

You hear about this?

You hear about this?

31:55

No. Here's what it says on his on his LinkedIn. B y u dot com was a social network for Bringham Young University students. We grew the network to include half the campus in a very short amount of time, but was ultimately crushed by Facebook. So he did this in two thousand five. I think Facebook launched two thousand four. And so basically,

No. Here's what it says on his on his LinkedIn. B y u dot com was a social network for Bringham Young University students. We grew the network to include half the campus in a very short amount of time, but was ultimately crushed by Facebook. So he did this in two thousand five. I think Facebook launched two thousand four. And so basically,

32:10

He was doing the, like, you know, the the Harvard social network. He was doing that just on BYU's campus, but, like, the Facebook wave, you know, swallowed it. But that's, you know, You're putting on

He was doing the, like, you know, the the Harvard social network. He was doing that just on BYU's campus, but, like, the Facebook wave, you know, swallowed it. But that's, you know, You're putting on

32:22

on the putting green right there. If you're if you're creating a social network back in two thousand five for college campuses, like,

on the putting green right there. If you're if you're creating a social network back in two thousand five for college campuses, like,

32:28

God, damn. You were close to being on to something. You know? Like, I'm not surprised that this guy ended up being really successful.

God, damn. You were close to being on to something. You know? Like, I'm not surprised that this guy ended up being really successful.

32:35

No. It's a really fascinating story.

No. It's a really fascinating story.

32:38

But, anyway, what it what where where do you wanna go? You wanna drive? Can can I can I tell you the story really quick? Ben has a story.

But, anyway, what it what where where do you wanna go? You wanna drive? Can can I can I tell you the story really quick? Ben has a story.

32:45

So, obviously, you mentioned their Utah company. So, of course, I know, well, so the story is,

So, obviously, you mentioned their Utah company. So, of course, I know, well, so the story is,

32:53

This guy adds me from Utah State University.

This guy adds me from Utah State University.

32:55

Looks like he's just graduating or about to graduate.

Looks like he's just graduating or about to graduate.

32:58

I have a bunch of mutual friends with him on LinkedIn. So I was like, Okay. I'll do his kid a favor. I don't know what he wants, so I click add. And he immediately starts posting cringe.

I have a bunch of mutual friends with him on LinkedIn. So I was like, Okay. I'll do his kid a favor. I don't know what he wants, so I click add. And he immediately starts posting cringe.

33:07

Like, I'm starting this company. It's gonna be huge.

Like, I'm starting this company. It's gonna be huge.

33:10

And then he keeps posting stuff that's like, I don't know how to describe it. It's very,

And then he keeps posting stuff that's like, I don't know how to describe it. It's very,

33:15

like, Adam Grant or Dumber, like,

like, Adam Grant or Dumber, like,

33:18

business,

business,

33:19

like,

like,

33:20

Did you know that you can increase your productivity by twenty percent by having a team off-site? So we're having a t a hashtag team off-site this weekend.

Did you know that you can increase your productivity by twenty percent by having a team off-site? So we're having a t a hashtag team off-site this weekend.

33:28

And,

And,

33:29

I was just like, who is this kid? He says he's starting a cookie company. Well, honestly, when they opened their first location, I was like, I am amazed. I didn't think this kid would ever actually get even location open. And, and it was sawyer, the the founder, the COO of, of Crumble. And, this kid who just posted cringe to my LinkedIn timeline. Oh, no. That's just totally, like, breaks my frame. I just always assumed that if you're that mega cringe

I was just like, who is this kid? He says he's starting a cookie company. Well, honestly, when they opened their first location, I was like, I am amazed. I didn't think this kid would ever actually get even location open. And, and it was sawyer, the the founder, the COO of, of Crumble. And, this kid who just posted cringe to my LinkedIn timeline. Oh, no. That's just totally, like, breaks my frame. I just always assumed that if you're that mega cringe

33:54

you won't win. And now

you won't win. And now

33:57

now I have to consider the possibility

now I have to consider the possibility

33:59

that every hashtag user

that every hashtag user

34:01

Could actually be a winner because I just had a blanket rule.

Could actually be a winner because I just had a blanket rule.

34:06

If you're a Mormon guy and you're telling me you're gonna start a a a cute cookie franchise. I'm in. I mean, come on. Of course, you guys gotta crush it. Mormon does trump cringe. So, like, if you're Mormon,

If you're a Mormon guy and you're telling me you're gonna start a a a cute cookie franchise. I'm in. I mean, come on. Of course, you guys gotta crush it. Mormon does trump cringe. So, like, if you're Mormon,

34:17

I have to I, you know, the checkbook's already out. I'm just waiting to hear, you know, how many zeros I need to put my my number here, but that's based on the idea. So, yeah, you're That that actually overwhelms the cringe part because it's like,

I have to I, you know, the checkbook's already out. I'm just waiting to hear, you know, how many zeros I need to put my my number here, but that's based on the idea. So, yeah, you're That that actually overwhelms the cringe part because it's like,

34:29

this guy's gonna sell.

this guy's gonna sell.

34:31

He's gonna First, he knows how to sell.

He's gonna First, he knows how to sell.

34:34

Yeah. The well, that sucks, Ben.

Yeah. The well, that sucks, Ben.

34:37

Yeah. You missed out on that one.

Yeah. You missed out on that one.

34:40

Yeah. I know. I should've just hit him up and like, oh, this looks really cool. But, you know, live and learn.

Yeah. I know. I should've just hit him up and like, oh, this looks really cool. But, you know, live and learn.

34:44

I can't find this client info. Have you heard of HubSpot?

I can't find this client info. Have you heard of HubSpot?

34:48

HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases.

HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases.

34:57

HubSpot, grow better.

HubSpot, grow better.

35:01

Sean, I have a couple things. What do you wanna do?

Sean, I have a couple things. What do you wanna do?

35:04

Okay. I have a quick little idea. So I was watching the Super Bowl and,

Okay. I have a quick little idea. So I was watching the Super Bowl and,

35:08

did you watch, by the way?

did you watch, by the way?

35:11

I watched the halftime show.

I watched the halftime show.

35:15

Yeah. I watched it. I watched no. I,

Yeah. I watched it. I watched no. I,

35:18

I, I watched, like, quarter three. Who how long did it take you to figure out Rhianna was pregnant during the halftime show?

I, I watched, like, quarter three. Who how long did it take you to figure out Rhianna was pregnant during the halftime show?

35:24

Quick quick on the uptake or no? You know, it was one of those things where my wife loves her you know, you don't wanna be rude when you see a lady with a lump and you wanna, like,

Quick quick on the uptake or no? You know, it was one of those things where my wife loves her you know, you don't wanna be rude when you see a lady with a lump and you wanna, like,

35:33

you know I'm not going first. That's I'm not I'm not talking.

you know I'm not going first. That's I'm not I'm not talking.

35:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I had her go first, then I asked, but she was doing some pretty,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I had her go first, then I asked, but she was doing some pretty,

35:42

raunchy stuff as a pregnant lady. Right? I mean, that was like Oh, I thought those tame for Rihanna. That's, like, that was PG to Reanna. I'm a I'm a Reanna fan. She's in my, like, top five, like, most beautiful women on earth. I'm a I'm I'm a I'm on team Rhiana, but I when I saw that she was pregnant, I,

raunchy stuff as a pregnant lady. Right? I mean, that was like Oh, I thought those tame for Rihanna. That's, like, that was PG to Reanna. I'm a I'm a Reanna fan. She's in my, like, top five, like, most beautiful women on earth. I'm a I'm I'm a I'm on team Rhiana, but I when I saw that she was pregnant, I,

35:58

it it was that was surprising.

it it was that was surprising.

36:00

I think she just had a kid too.

I think she just had a kid too.

36:03

Yeah.

Yeah.

36:04

That's yeah. She just had to hit, like, nine months ago. I don't I don't the math doesn't even make sense to me in my head. I don't Whenever. Whatever.

That's yeah. She just had to hit, like, nine months ago. I don't I don't the math doesn't even make sense to me in my head. I don't Whenever. Whatever.

36:10

I'm watching the football game and,

I'm watching the football game and,

36:12

one thing you noticed if you're watching the game is that when the Chiefs were scoring, they were scoring with these, like, incredible plays where the guy was just going untouched into the end zone. Like, through Dude, what was that thing where they, like, they get a huddle and they do, like, break around the rosy and then they, like, run to the line? That was crazy. Is that, like, work? What is that? But amazing that they try to Right? Like, that is, that was an awesome play. So I was thinking about it, and I was like,

one thing you noticed if you're watching the game is that when the Chiefs were scoring, they were scoring with these, like, incredible plays where the guy was just going untouched into the end zone. Like, through Dude, what was that thing where they, like, they get a huddle and they do, like, break around the rosy and then they, like, run to the line? That was crazy. Is that, like, work? What is that? But amazing that they try to Right? Like, that is, that was an awesome play. So I was thinking about it, and I was like,

36:35

but it did stand out. They had they had two or three touchdowns where it was just like brilliant play design

but it did stand out. They had they had two or three touchdowns where it was just like brilliant play design

36:41

right call and, like, totally worked.

right call and, like, totally worked.

36:43

And then, you know, I I've gone, you know, I love sports, and I've watched tons of sports documentaries and shows like Last Ant. And you can just see the life of coach. And a coach is, like, a really specific character in my head, like a football coach at a high school college or even pro level. Is, like, it's the same type of dude in most cases. And their life is football. They live and breathe this shit. They're preparing all week for, you know, the Sunday game, and then they start again the next week, and they just, like, they just live in this playbook, and the x's and o's, they all have the same value system about toughness and grit and whatever.

And then, you know, I I've gone, you know, I love sports, and I've watched tons of sports documentaries and shows like Last Ant. And you can just see the life of coach. And a coach is, like, a really specific character in my head, like a football coach at a high school college or even pro level. Is, like, it's the same type of dude in most cases. And their life is football. They live and breathe this shit. They're preparing all week for, you know, the Sunday game, and then they start again the next week, and they just, like, they just live in this playbook, and the x's and o's, they all have the same value system about toughness and grit and whatever.

37:17

And,

And,

37:18

and I was like, oh, this is another job that AI is gonna replace because I was like, this is This is an AI problem, the problem of an offensive coordinator in the NFL, which is basically

and I was like, oh, this is another job that AI is gonna replace because I was like, this is This is an AI problem, the problem of an offensive coordinator in the NFL, which is basically

37:28

what place should I call here to maximize,

what place should I call here to maximize,

37:31

you know, my expected return?

you know, my expected return?

37:33

And I think you could somebody's gonna build AI that basically ingests

And I think you could somebody's gonna build AI that basically ingests

37:37

a bunch of data that says

a bunch of data that says

37:39

in this situation, third down in seven,

in this situation, third down in seven,

37:42

you know, maybe even taking into account the teams and the talent, you know, equation.

you know, maybe even taking into account the teams and the talent, you know, equation.

37:46

This is the best play to run with the highest expected value. It's basically, like, what Madin does when Madin suggests, like, yeah, run this play. But, like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good version of Madin. Now that we have, like, you know, computers or geniuses,

This is the best play to run with the highest expected value. It's basically, like, what Madin does when Madin suggests, like, yeah, run this play. But, like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good version of Madin. Now that we have, like, you know, computers or geniuses,

37:58

And so, so I'm pretty sure that there's gonna somebody's gonna build a,

And so, so I'm pretty sure that there's gonna somebody's gonna build a,

38:03

basically, like, a play caller, AI play caller that will help because these guys are you just look they're literally looking on a cheat sheet, like, you know, like, a, like, it's a, open book exam or whatever, when it's, like, you can bring in one eight by eleven piece of paper and everyone's writing in, like, size two font to squeeze as many things as they can on it. That's what these guys use when they're calling plays. And it's like they have, you know, ten seconds to pick the play. This is just a job that computers are gonna be better at. And, it just reminds me of, like, how crazy AI is gonna be that, like, even these, like, total non tech

basically, like, a play caller, AI play caller that will help because these guys are you just look they're literally looking on a cheat sheet, like, you know, like, a, like, it's a, open book exam or whatever, when it's, like, you can bring in one eight by eleven piece of paper and everyone's writing in, like, size two font to squeeze as many things as they can on it. That's what these guys use when they're calling plays. And it's like they have, you know, ten seconds to pick the play. This is just a job that computers are gonna be better at. And, it just reminds me of, like, how crazy AI is gonna be that, like, even these, like, total non tech

38:35

situations, not even big markets,

situations, not even big markets,

38:37

but it's just gonna be like when now when humans play against a computer at chess or or or even, you know, go or poke or whatever. Where the the computer is just so much better than the human, that's what's gonna happen in this play calling situation. It just kinda reminded me about, man, AI is gonna be gonna be nuts because it's gonna take over all these things that you wouldn't really have expected or in the line of fire for AI.

but it's just gonna be like when now when humans play against a computer at chess or or or even, you know, go or poke or whatever. Where the the computer is just so much better than the human, that's what's gonna happen in this play calling situation. It just kinda reminded me about, man, AI is gonna be gonna be nuts because it's gonna take over all these things that you wouldn't really have expected or in the line of fire for AI.

38:58

Is

Is

38:59

Football as, like, you know, there's obviously the famous Moneyball thing where he's like, I don't care what who's a superstar, who's not. I'm just gonna look at the math, and we're just gonna pick people off spreadsheets.

Football as, like, you know, there's obviously the famous Moneyball thing where he's like, I don't care what who's a superstar, who's not. I'm just gonna look at the math, and we're just gonna pick people off spreadsheets.

39:10

And then

And then

39:11

famously, although I think this is highly exaggerated, Shamath was like, oh, I'm gonna buy the warriors, and we're gonna do that same thing

famously, although I think this is highly exaggerated, Shamath was like, oh, I'm gonna buy the warriors, and we're gonna do that same thing

39:13

with

with

39:17

ball. So we're only gonna shoot threes or whatever. I I don't pay attention, but whatever their their stick is.

ball. So we're only gonna shoot threes or whatever. I I don't pay attention, but whatever their their stick is.

39:22

Sorry. I'm ruining this, but Yeah. And and I but the reason I have a feeling it's not true is I have a feeling. No. No. That is true. The team And also, like, well, I think he said that though. Right?

Sorry. I'm ruining this, but Yeah. And and I but the reason I have a feeling it's not true is I have a feeling. No. No. That is true. The team And also, like, well, I think he said that though. Right?

39:30

I don't think so. But, well, I'm making it up then.

I don't think so. But, well, I'm making it up then.

39:34

But,

But,

39:35

Other people did it in basketball. Daryl Morey famously was, like, the big, you know, proponent of this. The reason why I don't believe that is I have a feeling, like, team we're always doing this. Like, maybe it's one of those things where, like,

Other people did it in basketball. Daryl Morey famously was, like, the big, you know, proponent of this. The reason why I don't believe that is I have a feeling, like, team we're always doing this. Like, maybe it's one of those things where, like,

39:47

like, for example, my favorite copywriter, he was like, I wrote these famous ads for the cat what's it called? The Castillo watch. And he's like, we talked about how we use space grade aluminum

like, for example, my favorite copywriter, he was like, I wrote these famous ads for the cat what's it called? The Castillo watch. And he's like, we talked about how we use space grade aluminum

39:57

and crystal quartz to make this watch. And he was like, little do they know? Every watch does that. Like, that's just like table stakes. Like, every single watch, but I'm gonna explain it. Because I know that the audience doesn't know. And so, like, you have a guy saying, like, look, we use state of the art technology. And it's like an Excel sheet that, like, everyone else uses. It's like, yeah, I guess it's state of the art. But anyway, we have a premium license to Microsoft Excel. Unlimited seats. Unlimited seats. We do not use the

and crystal quartz to make this watch. And he was like, little do they know? Every watch does that. Like, that's just like table stakes. Like, every single watch, but I'm gonna explain it. Because I know that the audience doesn't know. And so, like, you have a guy saying, like, look, we use state of the art technology. And it's like an Excel sheet that, like, everyone else uses. It's like, yeah, I guess it's state of the art. But anyway, we have a premium license to Microsoft Excel. Unlimited seats. Unlimited seats. We do not use the

40:25

trial.

trial.

40:26

But is football the same way where you could just follow the math? So there's actually there's actually a great question. There's a a Daryl Morey went on that guy, I forgot his name, but the invest invest like the best guy. Patrick?

But is football the same way where you could just follow the math? So there's actually there's actually a great question. There's a a Daryl Morey went on that guy, I forgot his name, but the invest invest like the best guy. Patrick?

40:37

Patrick. Shawny.

Patrick. Shawny.

40:38

Yeah. He's cool. He went on his spot. Actually, it was a really, really great podcast. If you like sports and you like kind of business stuff, it it was it's kind of an amazing one. Talks about, like, baseball is basically the almost like the perfect game for, modeling. Like, you could basically because it's like stationary. It's like one pit one batter versus one pitcher.

Yeah. He's cool. He went on his spot. Actually, it was a really, really great podcast. If you like sports and you like kind of business stuff, it it was it's kind of an amazing one. Talks about, like, baseball is basically the almost like the perfect game for, modeling. Like, you could basically because it's like stationary. It's like one pit one batter versus one pitcher.

40:54

And,

And,

40:56

and then, you know, like, it's a, like, it's a contained problem. Is it whereas in basketball, you got five guys on the on each team on the course. You got ten guys all moving around free form. At any given time, the ball's moving like crazy. It's much harder to model, but you could still model the impacts of, like, one player

and then, you know, like, it's a, like, it's a contained problem. Is it whereas in basketball, you got five guys on the on each team on the course. You got ten guys all moving around free form. At any given time, the ball's moving like crazy. It's much harder to model, but you could still model the impacts of, like, one player

41:11

in these certain situations. And so, but it's, like, the data thing has had a pretty big impact in basketball, but less than it did in baseball. Baseball was like a math became a math equation.

in these certain situations. And so, but it's, like, the data thing has had a pretty big impact in basketball, but less than it did in baseball. Baseball was like a math became a math equation.

41:20

Basketball

Basketball

41:22

became more of a math equation than it was before, but still it's never gonna be perfect. It's too complex and high school. There's too many variables -- Yeah. -- to be to be perfectly modeled out or or whatever. But still, it it was improved, which is why you see, like, they they will post, like, twenty years ago. Here's what the shot chart looked like, and it's just dots all over the the the courts, like, as you kind of expect, like, people shoot from everywhere. And it's like, here's what it is in twenty twenty three. It's like, people only shoot layups or freeze because optimally, like, basically a three is worth, you know, whatever, a hundred fifty percent more than a two, but there's percentage difference of shooting it is only, like, you know, you know, five to seven percent worse than a two pointer or whatever. So, you know, you get, like, way higher expected value for shooting a three. So that's why all these teams shoot threes now or lay ups. They try they tell players don't shoot this in between shot because it's the wrong combo. Right?

became more of a math equation than it was before, but still it's never gonna be perfect. It's too complex and high school. There's too many variables -- Yeah. -- to be to be perfectly modeled out or or whatever. But still, it it was improved, which is why you see, like, they they will post, like, twenty years ago. Here's what the shot chart looked like, and it's just dots all over the the the courts, like, as you kind of expect, like, people shoot from everywhere. And it's like, here's what it is in twenty twenty three. It's like, people only shoot layups or freeze because optimally, like, basically a three is worth, you know, whatever, a hundred fifty percent more than a two, but there's percentage difference of shooting it is only, like, you know, you know, five to seven percent worse than a two pointer or whatever. So, you know, you get, like, way higher expected value for shooting a three. So that's why all these teams shoot threes now or lay ups. They try they tell players don't shoot this in between shot because it's the wrong combo. Right?

42:10

So things like that. And then he's like football is gonna be the hardest one to to game because you have eleven players on side. And on any given play, everybody's moving in different directions, and you can't really figure out,

So things like that. And then he's like football is gonna be the hardest one to to game because you have eleven players on side. And on any given play, everybody's moving in different directions, and you can't really figure out,

42:21

like, the net effects of this guy running in this lane What did that cause this other guy to do? You know, it's much harder to do.

like, the net effects of this guy running in this lane What did that cause this other guy to do? You know, it's much harder to do.

42:29

But I think that's that's true at a, like, because the reason these general matters care is because they're trying to they're trying to, like, basically, it's like a stock picker. It's like they're trying to find undervalued assets. So the way you do that is you say this player

But I think that's that's true at a, like, because the reason these general matters care is because they're trying to they're trying to, like, basically, it's like a stock picker. It's like they're trying to find undervalued assets. So the way you do that is you say this player

42:42

is not, like, yes, his traditional stats look like this, but his game impact is different because of whatever. And so you're trying to figure out the value of one player.

is not, like, yes, his traditional stats look like this, but his game impact is different because of whatever. And so you're trying to figure out the value of one player.

42:51

But is the game impact because of locker room stuff and leadership? Or is it No. No. They're they're looking at just on the court movement, like, you know, in basketball, for example, there's an assist. If I pass you the ball, you score, that's an assist. But if I pass you the ball, I've I've made the whole defense shift to me you pass to the next guy, you get the assist. The stat sheet doesn't show that I actually was the one who created

But is the game impact because of locker room stuff and leadership? Or is it No. No. They're they're looking at just on the court movement, like, you know, in basketball, for example, there's an assist. If I pass you the ball, you score, that's an assist. But if I pass you the ball, I've I've made the whole defense shift to me you pass to the next guy, you get the assist. The stat sheet doesn't show that I actually was the one who created

43:12

this whole play, this opportunity by by caving in the defense. So the statutes, like, the traditional statutes limited. So what these guys have done is figure out, like, advanced stats that, like, better, better show

this whole play, this opportunity by by caving in the defense. So the statutes, like, the traditional statutes limited. So what these guys have done is figure out, like, advanced stats that, like, better, better show

43:23

an individual player's impact, not including locker room stuff. And he's saying football is even harder, more players, more movement, more whatever, less plays, total,

an individual player's impact, not including locker room stuff. And he's saying football is even harder, more players, more movement, more whatever, less plays, total,

43:30

so you have a smaller sample size. But I think that this play calling thing is bigger, bigger in football because in basketball, you don't call many plays.

so you have a smaller sample size. But I think that this play calling thing is bigger, bigger in football because in basketball, you don't call many plays.

43:39

But in football, every play is called in by the coach. And so if you can make the coach twenty percent more intelligent by suggesting a better play, that's gonna, like, that's gonna shift the time, you know, the balance of power towards that that team because they're just gonna get that many more first downs of touchdown. So I think this is, like, I don't know, It's kind of like really, really niche here, but I I think this is an example of how,

But in football, every play is called in by the coach. And so if you can make the coach twenty percent more intelligent by suggesting a better play, that's gonna, like, that's gonna shift the time, you know, the balance of power towards that that team because they're just gonna get that many more first downs of touchdown. So I think this is, like, I don't know, It's kind of like really, really niche here, but I I think this is an example of how,

44:00

AI is gonna touch a bunch of areas and kill a bunch of jobs you don't expect. Barsha. You got something. Yeah. Okay. So last night, the game was dictated on

AI is gonna touch a bunch of areas and kill a bunch of jobs you don't expect. Barsha. You got something. Yeah. Okay. So last night, the game was dictated on

44:08

that terrible call that

that terrible call that

44:10

you know, the the

you know, the the

44:12

Eagles deep fender, you know, got called on like a passenger interference that basically

Eagles deep fender, you know, got called on like a passenger interference that basically

44:17

made,

made,

44:18

ruin the game. Chiefs win.

ruin the game. Chiefs win.

44:19

That should have been decided by a re AI ref. Like, why are they not AI refs? Why is any call up for debate? You know? I agree. Well, there are in some sports. Like, in tennis, they put a chip in the ball. So, like, when the ball lands out, you see they always, like, instantly cut to this, like, silhouette of the ball as, like, it was out or is in, and everybody's just like, it's unarguable. And why is that? Because they have a chip in the bowl and a bunch of cameras that triangulate it so they can tell you exactly whatever dude, but that that makes it so boring.

That should have been decided by a re AI ref. Like, why are they not AI refs? Why is any call up for debate? You know? I agree. Well, there are in some sports. Like, in tennis, they put a chip in the ball. So, like, when the ball lands out, you see they always, like, instantly cut to this, like, silhouette of the ball as, like, it was out or is in, and everybody's just like, it's unarguable. And why is that? Because they have a chip in the bowl and a bunch of cameras that triangulate it so they can tell you exactly whatever dude, but that that makes it so boring.

44:48

Well, that's the problem. Because in baseball, you would have been like, oh, great. Like, the umpire call strikes by squatting behind the catcher. And trying to like eyeball this. Like, that's insane for this billion dollar sport. Like, why why are they doing this? And it turns out if you just used computer to pick that's, like, perfectly call pitches.

Well, that's the problem. Because in baseball, you would have been like, oh, great. Like, the umpire call strikes by squatting behind the catcher. And trying to like eyeball this. Like, that's insane for this billion dollar sport. Like, why why are they doing this? And it turns out if you just used computer to pick that's, like, perfectly call pitches.

45:06

I guess the the reasoning must be on a Ben you Ben then leave you might know better. But there must be something where people preferred

I guess the the reasoning must be on a Ben you Ben then leave you might know better. But there must be something where people preferred

45:13

that their human had the, like, final say here versus because, like, the technology is there for a, a computer to call balls and strikes. There's really no need for that umpire anymore. I'm not romantic to the early part of the game. I'm romantic to fist fights. That's what I want. And the best part about baseball is when, like, they get mad at each other. I mean, that's what I watch. I don't watch any of that other crap. I wanna see them fight. There's a demo. I I I sent this to Ben. I'll show you. There's a demo of because this there's actually a bigger problem in fighting. Like, dude, how many fights? Like, I don't know, in the UFC fight this car fight this weekend. Did you think the right guy won? I thought he I thought I won, but people were Me too, but a lot of people did not. People did not. And this big problem with, like, it's these three judges that are gonna decide who won the fight.

that their human had the, like, final say here versus because, like, the technology is there for a, a computer to call balls and strikes. There's really no need for that umpire anymore. I'm not romantic to the early part of the game. I'm romantic to fist fights. That's what I want. And the best part about baseball is when, like, they get mad at each other. I mean, that's what I watch. I don't watch any of that other crap. I wanna see them fight. There's a demo. I I I sent this to Ben. I'll show you. There's a demo of because this there's actually a bigger problem in fighting. Like, dude, how many fights? Like, I don't know, in the UFC fight this car fight this weekend. Did you think the right guy won? I thought he I thought I won, but people were Me too, but a lot of people did not. People did not. And this big problem with, like, it's these three judges that are gonna decide who won the fight.

45:55

And,

And,

45:56

and it's like, how do you call it? Oh, how do you judge, you know, what if this guy made the wrong facial expressions, like, did did he get hurt? How am I assessing damage here? Whereas

and it's like, how do you call it? Oh, how do you judge, you know, what if this guy made the wrong facial expressions, like, did did he get hurt? How am I assessing damage here? Whereas

46:05

there's a AI demo of basically the, like,

there's a AI demo of basically the, like,

46:08

like the the striking tracker where it's like, this guy did a left hook and it landed with this, like, with this level of of impact or this, like, clean, like, it was deflected partially there or is a clean shot? And they're like, we should have basically like perfect tracking of the fight game. But for you as a fan, would you want that? Would you want the computer to basically say who won the Or do you want these three old judges to to scribble a scorecard?

like the the striking tracker where it's like, this guy did a left hook and it landed with this, like, with this level of of impact or this, like, clean, like, it was deflected partially there or is a clean shot? And they're like, we should have basically like perfect tracking of the fight game. But for you as a fan, would you want that? Would you want the computer to basically say who won the Or do you want these three old judges to to scribble a scorecard?

46:32

I want the three old judges because,

I want the three old judges because,

46:35

a lot of fun. I can't believe it. A lot but here's why. First of all, when you watch WWFF and w in like fake wrestling, and WWE is called now, the best part is when they, like, hit the ref or they, like, distract them. Like, sometimes they'll have, like, a hot girl coming activity turns around and then, like, something bad happens. And that's, like, the best part of the show is, like, when there's drama.

a lot of fun. I can't believe it. A lot but here's why. First of all, when you watch WWFF and w in like fake wrestling, and WWE is called now, the best part is when they, like, hit the ref or they, like, distract them. Like, sometimes they'll have, like, a hot girl coming activity turns around and then, like, something bad happens. And that's, like, the best part of the show is, like, when there's drama.

46:53

But also,

But also,

46:54

in UFC,

in UFC,

46:55

they have a new thing where they measure,

they have a new thing where they measure,

46:58

aggression, you know, like who's, like, pushing who's pushing the plot.

aggression, you know, like who's, like, pushing who's pushing the plot.

47:02

I think they do that so it's more exciting. And I don't know if you can entirely measure, like, aggression with,

I think they do that so it's more exciting. And I don't know if you can entirely measure, like, aggression with,

47:07

AI, but that's why I don't like it.

AI, but that's why I don't like it.

47:10

But,

But,

47:11

No. I I I I'm okay with having, humans do it. The I think it makes it more exciting. More exciting. We're talking about it. They're almost always like, they're they're only ever in the conversation when they do it wrong. Right? Like it's never more exciting because, man, they really the refs really

No. I I I I'm okay with having, humans do it. The I think it makes it more exciting. More exciting. We're talking about it. They're almost always like, they're they're only ever in the conversation when they do it wrong. Right? Like it's never more exciting because, man, they really the refs really

47:27

added to the to the fight there by by scoring it. You know, like, they didn't they don't they don't add anything. They only subtract when they screw it up.

added to the to the fight there by by scoring it. You know, like, they didn't they don't they don't add anything. They only subtract when they screw it up.

47:35

I'm I'm surprised you don't want, like, the actual accurate,

I'm I'm surprised you don't want, like, the actual accurate,

47:39

score. The only thing that I want, I want them to tell me the scores of a fight in between rounds and have that be the official thing because I want I want the person to know when they're going into round three, around five, that I'm down. And if I don't knock this guy out, the fight's over. And so that would be the only change that I would want. I want them to know the real score as it's going. I got one more random topic. Let's do one more even though we're a little over time. Well, if you're gonna do one more, are you gonna do this guy? This, a mod? That that seems meaty. Alright. Well, go for it. Yeah. It is kinda meaty, but let's do like a fast version of it. So,

score. The only thing that I want, I want them to tell me the scores of a fight in between rounds and have that be the official thing because I want I want the person to know when they're going into round three, around five, that I'm down. And if I don't knock this guy out, the fight's over. And so that would be the only change that I would want. I want them to know the real score as it's going. I got one more random topic. Let's do one more even though we're a little over time. Well, if you're gonna do one more, are you gonna do this guy? This, a mod? That that seems meaty. Alright. Well, go for it. Yeah. It is kinda meaty, but let's do like a fast version of it. So,

48:11

So this guy Armjad, who's the founder of Replet,

So this guy Armjad, who's the founder of Replet,

48:14

which is an awesome company,

which is an awesome company,

48:17

is he tweeted this out. He goes, you know,

is he tweeted this out. He goes, you know,

48:19

Some of the biggest companies that were built Airbnb,

Some of the biggest companies that were built Airbnb,

48:22

Uber, etcetera,

Uber, etcetera,

48:25

were built because they took an underutilized

were built because they took an underutilized

48:27

asset and we're able to get more utilization. So for example,

asset and we're able to get more utilization. So for example,

48:31

Uber or Airbnb said, well, there's extra there's an extra bedroom in your house or extra rooms, you have extra space.

Uber or Airbnb said, well, there's extra there's an extra bedroom in your house or extra rooms, you have extra space.

48:37

Today, it's not doing anything, but you could rent that out, and we could actually have more rooms to stay in,

Today, it's not doing anything, but you could rent that out, and we could actually have more rooms to stay in,

48:42

and more options for a customer in that Airbnb, this multi billion dollar company. Uber is the same way. He goes, what are some other underutilized assets? I think this is a great, you know, framework for trying to figure out, you know, where where marketplace could be or where a,

and more options for a customer in that Airbnb, this multi billion dollar company. Uber is the same way. He goes, what are some other underutilized assets? I think this is a great, you know, framework for trying to figure out, you know, where where marketplace could be or where a,

48:56

and and I think people were doing this maybe five years ago, seven years ago a lot more. There was like people realized this and started jumping on it, and that's why you got wag, the dog walker app, you know, it becomes worth a billion dollars in Airbnb and then and a bunch of others.

and and I think people were doing this maybe five years ago, seven years ago a lot more. There was like people realized this and started jumping on it, and that's why you got wag, the dog walker app, you know, it becomes worth a billion dollars in Airbnb and then and a bunch of others.

49:11

And I have some examples here, but but what do you think about this framework? And, what what examples stand out to you?

And I have some examples here, but but what do you think about this framework? And, what what examples stand out to you?

49:17

I think it's brilliant. I see on here, you have stay at home moms. One of the best one of my favorite companies that have been eyeing is called squared away. And their whole niche is,

I think it's brilliant. I see on here, you have stay at home moms. One of the best one of my favorite companies that have been eyeing is called squared away. And their whole niche is,

49:27

virtual assistant and the virtual assistant is a military wife.

virtual assistant and the virtual assistant is a military wife.

49:31

And that's, like, for some reason in my head, I think they're gonna act a certain way, which who knows if it's true, I think that's one of the best ways of, like, a quote and under a underutilized asset. I love that. But the problem is is a lot of people, like, I knew a guy who started a thing where you could do it was like self storage, but in other people's garages. Right. And I'm like, dude, this is the stupidest shit I've ever heard of. And it was in fact really stupid and it completely didn't work. And so I think that a lot of people approach us poorly.

And that's, like, for some reason in my head, I think they're gonna act a certain way, which who knows if it's true, I think that's one of the best ways of, like, a quote and under a underutilized asset. I love that. But the problem is is a lot of people, like, I knew a guy who started a thing where you could do it was like self storage, but in other people's garages. Right. And I'm like, dude, this is the stupidest shit I've ever heard of. And it was in fact really stupid and it completely didn't work. And so I think that a lot of people approach us poorly.

49:57

Yeah. I think the the there's a lot of things you could think of. Like, I know, another one that people have tried a bunch, which is like, chefs. So it's like, oh, why do you only order from restaurants? Like, What if there's a lady who lives three doors down that makes an amazing, you know, Thai red curry.

Yeah. I think the the there's a lot of things you could think of. Like, I know, another one that people have tried a bunch, which is like, chefs. So it's like, oh, why do you only order from restaurants? Like, What if there's a lady who lives three doors down that makes an amazing, you know, Thai red curry.

50:13

You could just order for her and she would get rev she, you know, she'd get revenue for her cooking skill, and then she could deliver it to you and it's closer. And, you know, it wouldn't just be limited to restaurants, but it's like,

You could just order for her and she would get rev she, you know, she'd get revenue for her cooking skill, and then she could deliver it to you and it's closer. And, you know, it wouldn't just be limited to restaurants, but it's like,

50:22

a, operationally, these business are usually absolutely brutal.

a, operationally, these business are usually absolutely brutal.

50:26

B, there's like a whole bunch of, like, safety and quality concerns and, like,

B, there's like a whole bunch of, like, safety and quality concerns and, like,

50:30

uniformity of the quality concerns that that come up. I think that's that's another problem. And then the economics, like, people do, you know, is there enough dollar value for there to be you know, for the customer to pay, the provider to get paid, and the middle man to get paid, and the delivery person to get paid. Like, you need enough value in the chain, which is why Airbnb works like a high ticket thing.

uniformity of the quality concerns that that come up. I think that's that's another problem. And then the economics, like, people do, you know, is there enough dollar value for there to be you know, for the customer to pay, the provider to get paid, and the middle man to get paid, and the delivery person to get paid. Like, you need enough value in the chain, which is why Airbnb works like a high ticket thing.

50:52

There's one for, versus others. And there's one for pools that I hear is killing it.

There's one for, versus others. And there's one for pools that I hear is killing it.

50:57

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Share, like rent rent a swimming pool by the hour. Because I have a pool. We're not using it ninety five percent of the time. So if somebody could rent it from us, so we make a few hundred bucks. Yeah. Yeah. That that's great.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Share, like rent rent a swimming pool by the hour. Because I have a pool. We're not using it ninety five percent of the time. So if somebody could rent it from us, so we make a few hundred bucks. Yeah. Yeah. That that's great.

51:08

I wanna give you some of the best answers that came from the thread. So the first the number one is cars. So cars, I think, are parked, like, ninety three or ninety five percent of their of the time. And so once we have self driving cars,

I wanna give you some of the best answers that came from the thread. So the first the number one is cars. So cars, I think, are parked, like, ninety three or ninety five percent of their of the time. And so once we have self driving cars,

51:22

that car shouldn't just stay parked. It should go go be a taxi for somebody and earn you money. I think that's, like, one of the big unlock that people,

that car shouldn't just stay parked. It should go go be a taxi for somebody and earn you money. I think that's, like, one of the big unlock that people,

51:30

you know, people who know about this, they're like, oh, yeah, that's obvious, and that's gonna be a big deal. But I would say the majority of the population doesn't realize

you know, people who know about this, they're like, oh, yeah, that's obvious, and that's gonna be a big deal. But I would say the majority of the population doesn't realize

51:37

that your car is gonna turn into a worker for you.

that your car is gonna turn into a worker for you.

51:42

And people are going to just you're gonna be earning revenue when your car is idle instead of just sitting in your driver or your

And people are going to just you're gonna be earning revenue when your car is idle instead of just sitting in your driver or your

51:48

Dude Getaround, which I used to use all the time in San Francisco, I think they raised

Dude Getaround, which I used to use all the time in San Francisco, I think they raised

51:52

almost a billion dollars in funding, and they went public recently ish, their market cap, as of right now, fifty nine million dollars. So -- Wow. -- no one quite has figured it out yet. It looks like. Well, At least they have. That's a little bit that's still rental cars. This is gonna be just like

almost a billion dollars in funding, and they went public recently ish, their market cap, as of right now, fifty nine million dollars. So -- Wow. -- no one quite has figured it out yet. It looks like. Well, At least they have. That's a little bit that's still rental cars. This is gonna be just like

52:08

No. Get around to other people. Well, yeah. You're right. You're right.

No. Get around to other people. Well, yeah. You're right. You're right.

52:12

So so, this is what Tesla is basically betting on. This is what Elon's betting on. He basically is like, your car is gonna go from a depreciate depreciating asset to a revenue generating asset for you, which will make the car worth five times more than it is today.

So so, this is what Tesla is basically betting on. This is what Elon's betting on. He basically is like, your car is gonna go from a depreciate depreciating asset to a revenue generating asset for you, which will make the car worth five times more than it is today.

52:25

Once it once it's able to just run all day for you and just go do rides. Okay. That's that's bold, but that'd be cool if it works out. Clean structured data. So, basically, there's a bunch of data that in a bunch of different companies just sitting around And if you could kinda organize it and clean it up,

Once it once it's able to just run all day for you and just go do rides. Okay. That's that's bold, but that'd be cool if it works out. Clean structured data. So, basically, there's a bunch of data that in a bunch of different companies just sitting around And if you could kinda organize it and clean it up,

52:41

that data is actually an asset that can be used. And, like, we talked about earlier, the Freight waves company that's doing pricing data.

that data is actually an asset that can be used. And, like, we talked about earlier, the Freight waves company that's doing pricing data.

52:50

You know, how many companies have pricing data about, like, what they bought recently, how much it with with volume and from what provider.

You know, how many companies have pricing data about, like, what they bought recently, how much it with with volume and from what provider.

52:56

If that was available in a structured way and you could sell that to a middle, like a network, like a data aggregator.

If that was available in a structured way and you could sell that to a middle, like a network, like a data aggregator.

53:03

You know, that that becomes a valuable asset that today is worth zero to the company that has the data but is not doing anything with it, and it's not their main business to be able to do something. So I thought that was kind of an interesting one.

You know, that that becomes a valuable asset that today is worth zero to the company that has the data but is not doing anything with it, and it's not their main business to be able to do something. So I thought that was kind of an interesting one.

53:13

Dude, someone wrote the sun.

Dude, someone wrote the sun.

53:15

Yeah. The sun. So they were like, the sun is basically providing all this energy, but until we have solar and batteries, to capture it.

Yeah. The sun. So they were like, the sun is basically providing all this energy, but until we have solar and batteries, to capture it.

53:23

It's massively underutilized. Like, we're getting free energy

It's massively underutilized. Like, we're getting free energy

53:26

from this giant, you know, nuclear fusion reactor that's in the in the sky or whatever.

from this giant, you know, nuclear fusion reactor that's in the in the sky or whatever.

53:32

But you have to be able to capture it and store it. And, it's underutilized for that reason.

But you have to be able to capture it and store it. And, it's underutilized for that reason.

53:37

Another one I thought is kind of interesting. So a fun one, night clubs. Nightclubs are really, like, only useful, like, you know, for, like,

Another one I thought is kind of interesting. So a fun one, night clubs. Nightclubs are really, like, only useful, like, you know, for, like,

53:44

five percent of the time, you know, at night on, you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or whatever.

five percent of the time, you know, at night on, you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or whatever.

53:49

What can be done? And they're usually in kind of prime real estate in cities.

What can be done? And they're usually in kind of prime real estate in cities.

53:53

And,

And,

53:54

I've always thought it was cool when I lived overseas in Indonesia. They used to take night clubs and during the day turned them into

I've always thought it was cool when I lived overseas in Indonesia. They used to take night clubs and during the day turned them into

54:00

like fitness day bars. So you'd go in a dance floor and the mirrors would turn into basically like a cardio session, and then the bar would turn into a smoothie bar. I was like, oh, this is so smart. They're getting, like, double utility out of their night club.

like fitness day bars. So you'd go in a dance floor and the mirrors would turn into basically like a cardio session, and then the bar would turn into a smoothie bar. I was like, oh, this is so smart. They're getting, like, double utility out of their night club.

54:14

I don't know why I've never seen that in the United States for some reason.

I don't know why I've never seen that in the United States for some reason.

54:17

So I think nightclubs is a fun one. And then another one that was on here was a specialist talent. So, like What's that mean? Like, think about somebody who's, like, a really great three d animator or something like that. So, like, if a company hires you, that's great. But I would actually say, like, you doing the thing you're world class at, you're probably only doing

So I think nightclubs is a fun one. And then another one that was on here was a specialist talent. So, like What's that mean? Like, think about somebody who's, like, a really great three d animator or something like that. So, like, if a company hires you, that's great. But I would actually say, like, you doing the thing you're world class at, you're probably only doing

54:35

like ten to fifteen percent of your time when you're in a big company.

like ten to fifteen percent of your time when you're in a big company.

54:39

A lot of your time gets spent sort of like waiting for approvals or feedback or doing meetings or doing whatever, other stuff that's around it. There's probably a case to be made that, like, people with really specialist talent, you know, financial modeling or design or whatever,

A lot of your time gets spent sort of like waiting for approvals or feedback or doing meetings or doing whatever, other stuff that's around it. There's probably a case to be made that, like, people with really specialist talent, you know, financial modeling or design or whatever,

54:54

They would be better off being freelance to companies, but it would need to the market needs to be more liquid and fast paced than it is today. Like, you you would need, like, like, Naval has talked about this. He says the future of work is basically

They would be better off being freelance to companies, but it would need to the market needs to be more liquid and fast paced than it is today. Like, you you would need, like, like, Naval has talked about this. He says the future of work is basically

55:07

like oceans eleven.

like oceans eleven.

55:08

It's small teams of people that are with in each team. There's like highly specialized. You know, that guy's the the guy who's a pickpocket, and this guy's the guy who can break codes, and this guy's the guy who can do acrobatics or whatever. Like, the ocean's eleven. That that's what they do. There's a highly talented specialist

It's small teams of people that are with in each team. There's like highly specialized. You know, that guy's the the guy who's a pickpocket, and this guy's the guy who can break codes, and this guy's the guy who can do acrobatics or whatever. Like, the ocean's eleven. That that's what they do. There's a highly talented specialist

55:23

that gang up together

that gang up together

55:24

to go on this mission for a high They then they split the money, they go on their way, they rest until they get the next call. And he's like, that's what and he's like, that's what work is gonna be. It's gonna be pods of people that work well together, highly specialized. They're gonna get a beep they're gonna wake up in the morning. They're not gonna have a job. They're gonna wake up in the morning and check their phone for possible missions they could go on. Could choose to do none of them and just chill that day or take one because they're like, oh, that's a juicy bounty.

to go on this mission for a high They then they split the money, they go on their way, they rest until they get the next call. And he's like, that's what and he's like, that's what work is gonna be. It's gonna be pods of people that work well together, highly specialized. They're gonna get a beep they're gonna wake up in the morning. They're not gonna have a job. They're gonna wake up in the morning and check their phone for possible missions they could go on. Could choose to do none of them and just chill that day or take one because they're like, oh, that's a juicy bounty.

55:48

They could go do that mission. When they're done, the employer rates them, like like a Uber ride, like five stars. You rate the employer five stars. The the the money gets paid out to everybody's cell phone and you go on your way and you do you wait till the next job. And I just thought those are really sexy view of the future. It hasn't happened quite yet, but, like, you could see, like, I guess Uber kinda works like that. And guess there's like, you know, taskrabbit and these other things that kinda work like that. And I guess freelancing is becoming more popular. Maybe this is maybe we are moving in that direction.

They could go do that mission. When they're done, the employer rates them, like like a Uber ride, like five stars. You rate the employer five stars. The the the money gets paid out to everybody's cell phone and you go on your way and you do you wait till the next job. And I just thought those are really sexy view of the future. It hasn't happened quite yet, but, like, you could see, like, I guess Uber kinda works like that. And guess there's like, you know, taskrabbit and these other things that kinda work like that. And I guess freelancing is becoming more popular. Maybe this is maybe we are moving in that direction.

56:17

I hate when people make these claims, like, this is the future of blank. Like, if you say that, like, the future is electric car, yeah, I buy that. But if you say the future of work, is like oceans eleven. My reply to that is like, no. Maybe the future of criminals is ocean eleven, but like that's not like it's like The future of people getting money is to rob banks.

I hate when people make these claims, like, this is the future of blank. Like, if you say that, like, the future is electric car, yeah, I buy that. But if you say the future of work, is like oceans eleven. My reply to that is like, no. Maybe the future of criminals is ocean eleven, but like that's not like it's like The future of people getting money is to rob banks.

56:38

No. Maybe like a group of people will do that, but I just don't think that, like But why?

No. Maybe like a group of people will do that, but I just don't think that, like But why?

56:43

Okay. Take the oceans eleven analogy out. Right? Like, the yeah. That's leading you to bank. Because But what's wrong with the actual premise?

Okay. Take the oceans eleven analogy out. Right? Like, the yeah. That's leading you to bank. Because But what's wrong with the actual premise?

56:52

Because I think most people now it's like saying, well, most people are just gonna freelance. No. Maybe thirty percent of America will But I think that sixty to seventy percent of America, they wanna go to work at nine, they wanna get off at four or five, and they wanna play softball. That's what they wanna do. They don't wanna, like, go on a heist where they, like, are having some exciting mission. They just wanna clock in and clock out and do the same thing every day. Maybe we think that's cool. Maybe think our listeners thinks thinks it's cool. But I think when Naval says something like that, I think that he is in

Because I think most people now it's like saying, well, most people are just gonna freelance. No. Maybe thirty percent of America will But I think that sixty to seventy percent of America, they wanna go to work at nine, they wanna get off at four or five, and they wanna play softball. That's what they wanna do. They don't wanna, like, go on a heist where they, like, are having some exciting mission. They just wanna clock in and clock out and do the same thing every day. Maybe we think that's cool. Maybe think our listeners thinks thinks it's cool. But I think when Naval says something like that, I think that he is in

57:23

this small bubble, and although he's smart and gets a lot of things right, I think it's too grandiose to say this is the future of work, and I think it's really dumb. Like when people say the future of media are the creators, like, doing x, y, z. I'm like, oh my god, dude. Like, maybe that's, like, a new band that you're assembling, but that's not, like, the that's not like how everyone's gonna operate. I think you're just you you like to smell your own farts. So I don't like, I I I think you're just you're out of your you're out of your depth here. That's that's what I think when I hear stuff like that.

this small bubble, and although he's smart and gets a lot of things right, I think it's too grandiose to say this is the future of work, and I think it's really dumb. Like when people say the future of media are the creators, like, doing x, y, z. I'm like, oh my god, dude. Like, maybe that's, like, a new band that you're assembling, but that's not, like, the that's not like how everyone's gonna operate. I think you're just you you like to smell your own farts. So I don't like, I I I think you're just you're out of your you're out of your depth here. That's that's what I think when I hear stuff like that.

57:51

Yeah. But I think,

Yeah. But I think,

57:52

nobody means a hundred percent of people are gonna do this when they say the future is x. I think they mean, like, a lot of people. It certainly sounds that way.

nobody means a hundred percent of people are gonna do this when they say the future is x. I think they mean, like, a lot of people. It certainly sounds that way.

58:00

Yeah. But no, a hundred percent of people don't do anything today. A hundred percent of people don't do nine to fives either. So, you know, not even eighty percent of people do nine to fives. So I think that's kind of I think it's a given, right? That's like,

Yeah. But no, a hundred percent of people don't do anything today. A hundred percent of people don't do nine to fives either. So, you know, not even eighty percent of people do nine to fives. So I think that's kind of I think it's a given, right? That's like,

58:11

it's a given to my. No. Is it not sexy enough? You can't you can't say anything is the future if you say everybody's gonna do There's still people who use AOL to get on the internet. Like, yeah. My mom. You know, like, of course, you can't say that everybody's gonna do it. It's it's not a that's not a realistic thing, but I think it is real to say,

it's a given to my. No. Is it not sexy enough? You can't you can't say anything is the future if you say everybody's gonna do There's still people who use AOL to get on the internet. Like, yeah. My mom. You know, like, of course, you can't say that everybody's gonna do it. It's it's not a that's not a realistic thing, but I think it is real to say,

58:31

shit's gonna change, trends are gonna shift, and

shit's gonna change, trends are gonna shift, and

58:34

you know, huge chunks of the economy or the workforce is gonna look different than it is today because this whole idea of go to a go to an office for a nine to five That's also kinda new. And that was also a a shift from what was before. So I don't think that's like

you know, huge chunks of the economy or the workforce is gonna look different than it is today because this whole idea of go to a go to an office for a nine to five That's also kinda new. And that was also a a shift from what was before. So I don't think that's like

58:49

just ingrained in human

just ingrained in human

58:51

That's not like biological. That's not physics. That's, you know, society and economics. And a society and economics tends to change.

That's not like biological. That's not physics. That's, you know, society and economics. And a society and economics tends to change.

58:59

It's not sexy enough to say the future of work is this group of people that's a

It's not sexy enough to say the future of work is this group of people that's a

59:06

nice small enough nips that you can go and capture market share while also being big enough to support a multi billion dollar company that can capital at a fifty five percent annual return. I get it. That's not that's that's not as catchy. Yeah. It was a short end in the future. Yeah.

nice small enough nips that you can go and capture market share while also being big enough to support a multi billion dollar company that can capital at a fifty five percent annual return. I get it. That's not that's that's not as catchy. Yeah. It was a short end in the future. Yeah.

59:23

But

But

59:24

yeah. That's cool.

yeah. That's cool.

59:26

I have some more topics that I'll save for later. Yeah. But,

I have some more topics that I'll save for later. Yeah. But,

59:30

this was a good one. Alright. That's the pod.

this was a good one. Alright. That's the pod.

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