00:00
My motivation here was to open people's eyes to what goes down in Silicon Valley,
00:05
where it's not all sunshine and rainbows.
00:09
It is very fierce and there's fierce competition
00:12
and there's also games that are played
00:15
with powerful
00:17
institutions and
00:18
you know, groups of people
00:21
who,
00:22
you know, help each other out.
00:36
Don't chickens have two wings?
00:38
Yeah. But it's not their actual wing. Hey. What's up, Brian? What's up, Sean, Sam? What what is it?
00:44
Dude, you can you can settle this for us. So, Sab, this is Ryan. He's the the the founder of Bolt, and,
00:52
we're having a we're just going over this detail. Are chicken wings actually the chicken's wings or are they just, like, the ribs of the chicken?
01:00
I think they're the wig. What's a drumstick?
01:03
You think they're the actual wigs? I feel like they're not the wigs. I feel like Sean, this is, like, this is, like, such a marketing station. Of course, they are. Like, what's a drumstick? Isn't drumstick a leg? Power powerful young Ben. Ben, look that up. See, you see if I'm right. I think I think I think I'm right.
01:19
Alright. So so we should we should switch gears.
01:22
Okay. So Ryan's here. I met Ryan in
01:25
where were we hanging out? LA. Okay. I was in LA. I'm at this dinner,
01:28
and,
01:29
and Ryan's across the table from me. And at this dinner, everybody kinda, like, dressed up because it was at the dinner is at the owner of an NBA team's house.
01:38
And, you know, some most people are pretty dressed up. I see this one guy who looks like I'm like, is this a TikTok star. Like, who's this guy? He's got earrings. He's got this, like, tie dye shirt on. He looked totally different than every other, kinda, like, business schmuck at this thing. And I was like, oh, what's up, man? Like, what's your I was like, like, I'm literally in my head. I was like, this guy's definitely a TikToker or a YouTuber.
01:59
I he's got this, like, charisma about him. I feel like that's who he is. And he's like, no, I'm Ryan. I, you know, I started,
02:05
payments company. I was like, oh,
02:08
shit. I know both. That's amazing. And ended up becoming friends, ended up investing at the company,
02:14
and you ended up getting Twitter famous over the last few months, my friend, and I wanted to have you on to talk about a couple things.
02:22
The you've done some pretty impressive stuff at a young age. I wanna talk about I wanna give people the background of that. And then you currently have some spicy Twitter shit going on. I wanna give get your take on on some of those things.
02:33
Welcome to the show. I don't know if you've ever listened, but We have a very casual business show. Yeah. It's a pleasure to be on, Sean. I've been looking forward
02:41
to doing this, and I think we picked the perfect time.
02:46
And, Sam, what do you know about Ryan besides what I just told you? So I was googling you. So I I I saw Twitter come out of nowhere about a month and a half ago. And Sean told me all about Bolt, and he told me about this dinner that he had. And so Bolt is a payments company.
03:00
That is at, like, eleven or fourteen billion dollars in
03:03
mark or valuation. So it's a huge company. What I know is that you look incredibly
03:09
young.
03:10
And on your bio, maybe on Lincoln or something, or maybe Twitter, it says that you've started two or three companies that are worth about a billion dollars including a bunch of crypto stuff. And when I was googling you today,
03:21
one of the first images that comes up, it's beautiful because you're tweeting about mobs and mafia's
03:28
your
03:29
the Forbes headline is meet the Stanford Bitcoin mafia,
03:33
and there was a picture of you at, like, three friends. And so I know that you've got your hands in a bunch of stuff. So, Brian, what's the what's your claim to fame? So this is the part you don't have to be humble. Just give people the the reason why they should be listening. Who is this cat? What have what have you done? What's your claim to fame?
03:47
Well, my claim to fame is
03:50
I think I've, you know, I
03:52
operate pretty fearlessly
03:55
And,
03:57
I've, you know,
03:58
done a lot of things that,
04:01
that I think I've told been told I shouldn't be doing. So I think it's business.
04:05
I've been told by many people I shouldn't be doing. It'll never be possible.
04:10
And,
04:11
you know, we've ridden the framework on culture
04:15
unconscious dot org. People are like, who are you to write about culture? Now we have close to a hundred companies pledging that culture. We've written books
04:22
done four day work week. So
04:24
You know, I think
04:25
we're thinking differently myself and the whole bolt team, and I'm very proud of that.
04:32
And so walk us through,
04:35
the I I don't wanna go too far into what bolt is. I'll give kind of like the TLDR
04:40
on on on I'll oversimplify it. You might cringe a little bit as I oversimplify, but basically,
04:46
the way we pay for things online is, you know, some people shop at Amazon and Amazon says, hey, one click. Check out. We got your stuff saved.
04:54
And then you have Shopify. Shopify has a bunch of stores. Now Shopify has Shopify pay, which says, hey, you've shopped at a Shopify store before. You can check out that way if you want.
05:04
Apple's got Apple Pay. They let you pay it some places.
05:06
And what you've done is you went to, like, you're like, hey, you know, even though those those companies are huge, they're monstrous.
05:12
The internet's a lot bigger than that. There's a whole bunch of stores that aren't on Shopify. There's a whole bunch of platforms like, Pinterest,
05:20
where people go and they find products they love, and they love to be able to check out. And as somebody who owns an e commerce store, you I I felt this pain many, many times, which is you can look at how many people just drop off at the checkout because they don't wanna type in their name, their first name, last name, address, credit card, you know, zip code blah blah blah every single time when they're on their phone and they're on the go. And I'm just see how like, that's the biggest drop off in our whole store. It's like, shit. What could I do about that? Like, wouldn't it be amazing if there really was
05:50
a way to just check out at any store, have your information saved. It would make a merchant like me more money because my drop off would be lower. It would make the consumer experience easier because I don't have to type in the same shit over and over and over again.
06:04
And it has this, like, network effect where the more stores who use something like Bolt the more shoppers have a bolt account, now every single store benefits because that account can be used on all these different stores. Amazon is gonna work on Amazon, and Shopify is gonna work in Shopify, but the world is a lot bigger than that. Alright. How did I do out of ten? Did I did I get it or what I missed? Sean, that was, like, pretty epic.
06:28
We need to play you in customer calls.
06:31
Yeah. There we go. I'm I'm down.
06:34
So that so you create bolt, and you're saying at the beginning, people told you don't do this or it can't be done. What what's an actual story that happened there where somebody kinda told you Look, man. It's not gonna work. Okay. So I have a pretty extreme story.
06:46
I went to one of the, you know, tier one
06:50
Silicon Valley firms, someone who's a PayPal led
06:54
not PayPal, sorry, of payments, legend,
06:58
not PayPal, mafia, but a payments legend, big firm, big name.
07:03
And I went in. I told them about what we're what we're doing.
07:08
And
07:09
they spent the entire conversation
07:11
telling me
07:12
why this couldn't be done
07:15
and
07:16
that, you know, they actually got mad
07:19
during the conversation.
07:21
And then after the conversation,
07:23
They saw one of the people on our team because we were recruiting top people. Was that another company they're involved with, spent three hours trying to convince that person not to join us.
07:33
And to join other portfolio companies.
07:36
And so
07:38
it's amazing. You know, I think everybody
07:41
coming from the payments space,
07:43
the o gs, they have real, you know, they've been in the sausage factory that they see how hard it is.
07:51
But I think there is a little resistance to the fact that there could be something this disruptive
07:57
that's this obvious
07:59
And,
08:00
we just, you know, decided to go ahead and do it.
08:04
What were you and I wanna hear all about that, but What were you doing before this? Before bolt? Sean mentioned,
08:12
I dropped out of school. It's so a little bit about my background.
08:16
First job was bagging groceries.
08:18
Yeah. For three years. And then I started going to the internet to make money, started some websites, online businesses,
08:26
ran a web development agency working for a lot of other customers. That's why I learned everything there is about
08:33
e commerce.
08:34
And then I was lucky to get into Stanford.
08:36
Sorry, the Stanford Bitcoin group of some friends in early twenty thirteen.
08:40
Many of which have gone on to do amazing things. And I dropped out of school in twenty fourteen
08:46
to focus entirely on crypto. I'm like crypto is gonna change everything about payments. I still believe
08:52
But about a year in, so mid twenty fifteen, I was like, wait a second.
08:56
Why has nobody solved this checkout problem?
08:59
If you create a checkout,
09:01
And all the users who go through your checkout enroll in shopper accounts,
09:06
you could create the most powerful, important shopper network
09:10
payment network
09:11
on the planet.
09:13
And so, like, there's this site I couldn't unsee
09:16
and I decided to go, you know,
09:19
real I, like, learned about the space. The more I learned, the more I realized this was an opportunity.
09:24
And so we started building.
09:26
And,
09:27
And yeah. So that's that's that's the story. Did you did you did you
09:33
you dropped out
09:35
before, I mean, you're probably, what, twenty one, twenty two. You dropped out at a young age. Did you did you just, like, knock it out the park with crypto to the point where, like, money
09:44
you you fix money's
09:45
good. You're good. Now you're gonna go and start things. Did it happen at that young of an age? Unfortunately, it did not.
09:51
I had this mentality that I was going to build things in crypto, not invest in it, which was a very costly mentality.
10:00
I had, like, a little bit of crypto. I mean,
10:03
you know,
10:04
But you you you you didn't become, you know, f u rich. No. I'm not at all.
10:09
So I had to
10:11
Both had to make it. I was couch surfing.
10:14
Like, I didn't have enough money to, like, even rent a place to stay.
10:18
So I was a friend texted me before this podcast and he said, ask him, like, how well, like,
10:26
be like, well, he already got really wealthy from Bitcoin. Is that why he's, like, so brash now? And so you've kind of just answered that question. You weren't. Warrant and I bought
10:35
I started off at a forty k salary.
10:38
And for about five years, it never got higher than sixty k. So I was living paycheck to paycheck.
10:44
I wanted every dollar
10:46
to maximize
10:47
Bolt's outcome.
10:49
And just recently, I sold a very
10:52
tiny
10:53
amount of shares.
10:55
Just to kinda pay for some expenses.
10:57
But up until about a month ago, I hadn't sold a single share almost eight years into the journey.
11:05
What about your other businesses? You didn't you didn't sell any of those. So you also help start eco. Right? Or now known as eco.
11:12
Your buddy runs it, I think, who's also what's his name? Andy Roberts. Super, like, impressive as well. Yeah.
11:18
And, I don't wanna go too much into eco because your Twitter stuff's frankly just more spicy right now. But, basically,
11:23
you kinda helped the what just with the vision of that or the the the kind of initial strategy of that? Yeah. So
11:29
I
11:30
what I can take credit for is I helped build an awesome team of founders
11:36
and inspire some of the ideas, but
11:39
They
11:40
have really manifested Eco into what it's come become today.
11:44
The founder thereof drove amazing vision. The ones who are on the ground every day and they've executed.
11:50
And so I've played a part in the journey, but Andy Bromberg is
11:55
One of the CEOs I have the most respect for on the planet Henry All Ryan Sachs Joey Krug
12:00
there have done,
12:02
miracle work.
12:04
Cool. And and so let's talk about this two other things. So you came out the other day, and you you basically said, look,
12:12
You're like bolt,
12:14
you know, we we've become successful now, but
12:17
it wasn't
12:18
without kind of some some challenges, and there's, like, the normal business challenges. And then there's sort of the, like,
12:24
the challenges of the powers that be. And in Silicon Valley, there's two kind of, like,
12:29
very powerful. And in in most people's minds, you I think you picked a fight with people that very few people had bad things to say about light combinator and strike. Right? Stripe is probably like the most beloved
12:39
startup in Silicon Valley, respected, beloved, whatever.
12:43
And, and YC is also, you know, the most powerfuls are sort of like a brand. You know, it's like, basically, if you're gonna pick on a college, you pick on either Stanford or Harvard if you were going for the top. And,
12:55
And you basically told the story about them being the mafia. And so I want you to kind of quickly, can you quickly bullet point the the what your argument was for people who aren't nerding out on Twitter and aren't seeing it because this the audience we have here is not gonna have seen it. So bullet point that, and then I got some questions for you. Yeah. So the point is
13:12
My motivation here was to open people's eyes to what goes down in Silicon Valley,
13:18
where it's not all sunshine and rainbows.
13:21
It is very fierce in their fierce competition,
13:25
and there are also games that are played with powerful institutions and
13:31
you know, groups of people
13:33
who,
13:34
you know, help each other out.
13:36
And so if you're starting a company, especially in payments,
13:40
you've likely failed.
13:42
There's,
13:43
you know, the only ones that have been successful have been internationally.
13:49
And we probably should have failed five times over with investors pulling out of term sheets
13:55
when we were about to run out of money.
13:58
And so we I'd say bolt
14:02
almost didn't exist
14:03
because of the powers that be the powers that be. And,
14:08
you know, I think there are a lot of other companies that would have existed today if it wasn't for the powers that be. And so
14:14
You know, now I don't blame
14:17
these institutions.
14:18
K. But but what I you're you're I I I I don't know if you're doing this on purpose to be kind but you're kind of being vague. Is it possible that you could, like, what does institution mean and gain? Are you able to, like, actually Let's separate out. Right? There's
14:33
there's fair fair, you know, fair business games, which is like we're competing against somebody. That's fair. They can compete with us fiercely.
14:41
There's
14:42
investors just deciding,
14:44
this space is too competitive or Stripe's gonna win. I've just gotta I'm just gonna back away. Right? So a perception thing. That's kind of like Nobody would say that that's unfair.
14:53
Talk about the specifics of what you felt was unfair or were, you know, some some,
14:58
some there was some heavy handedness to it. Yeah. So
15:02
when we would be pitching investors,
15:06
they'd get interested.
15:08
They'd say they want to invest
15:10
and then they would talk to somebody at Stripe, someone related to Stripe,
15:15
and either be told they can't invest
15:18
or they shouldn't invest
15:21
or somehow
15:22
the conclusion was they were dissuaded from investing.
15:27
But how do you know that that's what happened? Right? They might just come to you and say we're not just Hold me.
15:31
The strength would always come up
15:34
somehow in that conversation.
15:36
So many of them pulled me directly. I have a message say directly,
15:40
I got a call by Stripe, and they told me I can't invest in you guys.
15:44
Is that bad though? I mean, what if they if they're already an investor of Stripe? I I understand that. I have a conflict of interest. Right. But, you know, Stripe has
15:53
like all the big names until it can value invested in them. Alright. So they've intentionally
15:58
put every single
16:01
you know, tier one firm on their cap table, and they even stuffed them with small checks. They're like everybody's on their cap table.
16:09
Right? And so,
16:10
you know, from And then they say you're conflicted out. Right? That's a competitor of ours. You're our shareholder.
16:16
Donnie. Right. Exactly. And I didn't even, you know, consider ourselves a direct competitor at the time,
16:22
but I think they're very guarded about anything in their periphery.
16:25
So I've heard the same story from companies,
16:28
you know, doing card issuing. I've heard the same stories from companies doing subscription payments.
16:34
And then strip a raw at their own product next.
16:36
So it's almost as if they have these feelers out anything that's tangential. They make sure that doesn't get off the ground. And then they go and build it.
16:46
And so Is there any is is there any side of you
16:50
So the way that you're phrasing it, and it I would like to figure out what what my opinion is. I don't have an opinion yet is is, like, that's unethical
16:58
But one maybe could argue and be like, well, that was just a savvy strategic move to, like, get everyone on board. And, you know, that's just like, that's just like, that's a That's fair. Is do you do you see that side of it at at all, or do you think that, like, the way they went about it, their intentions were The intentions matter here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
17:16
I've never pulled a single investor. You can't invest in somebody.
17:22
Right? And so to me,
17:24
like, everything is fair competition
17:27
and if someone wants to invest in a company tangential to me, I tell them go for it. We've even invested in tangential.
17:33
I invested in tangential.
17:35
I think,
17:36
you know, innovation is good. I have a very long term perspective.
17:40
So when you're calling VSA, you can't invest in this company.
17:43
Like, even if they're not on this stripe cap table, it's investors too that are not on the stripe cap table.
17:49
To me, it's just not how I would do business.
17:52
And I also
17:54
want found the next generation of founders to go into building with an eye their eyes wide open. Cause I invested eight years of my life into this business, not knowing about the games that go on. Right? And so the most important thing I'm exposing here
18:08
is if you're coming to Silicon Valley,
18:10
you have an idea, you're quitting your job, putting a lot on the line,
18:15
like get ready
18:17
for war.
18:18
Like it's it's it's serious
18:20
and that there will be people who do not want you to exist and you're gonna need to be ready to battle that.
18:27
And so one of the things you say is that, which is they basically hurt our ability to fundraise
18:33
by telling first, they they kind of played good good game theory. Right? They they got every in every big investor to get a little piece of stripe because every investor wants a piece of stripe, And then they said, cool. Now you're conflicted out of investing our our competitors. Okay. Some might say that's that's shady. I personally just I I'm an investor in you. Right? I'm a fan of yours. I personally would just say, okay. There's nothing unethical about that. You may not like it, but that's competing. And it's like a it's a strategy. It's a it's a hard strategy. Okay. Fair enough. In the same way that, like, I don't think it's cool that Mark Zuckerberg just copied stories or whatever. I don't think that's, like, you don't get bonus points of respect for me. But I also don't think you did anything illegal or crooked, completely crooked. Right? That's that's you copied something that was copyable. Okay. Fair enough. The second thing you said is
19:19
that they
19:21
that YC, which has a huge stake in Stripe,
19:25
controlled the own hacker news, and that on hacker news, people would be posting about both. It would get some play. It would go up the ranks,
19:33
but that somehow there's some, you know, editorial shenanigans behind scenes where all of a sudden
19:38
the post about bolt would disappear or get deranked, and then a post about Stripe would be up higher. And so you posted some examples of that. Now
19:46
I think I think that's the summary of what you said.
19:49
As that was happening, did you, is that a suspicion
19:52
or you're, like, I know that that's what happened. I'm pretty sure. That's what happened.
19:57
You know, because
19:58
we had some posts, one in particular,
20:01
that, you know, I'd written catered to wise the audience. It was an unraveling of how we do fraud detection better and guarantee it with your payments, which was radical and new at the time.
20:12
It had organically
20:13
gotten
20:14
to number one,
20:15
held there.
20:16
We had a ton of comments
20:19
on it just like very active. People are very interested. You can go read all my comments.
20:25
And then Stripe's posts. I don't know if it was there before It seems like they said it got posted technically before.
20:32
But, anyway,
20:33
Lathor's got to number one. They're starting to rise.
20:36
And ours just started to fall and then disappeared.
20:41
And so
20:42
I don't know if those editorial, there's also this down vote.
20:46
Functionality.
20:47
Right.
20:48
And so you can also just have a bunch of your employees
20:53
going downvote or have a bunch of your friends
20:56
So,
20:56
you know, whatever it is,
20:59
they're able to get us off of there pretty quickly.
21:03
Right. The the guys who started Stripe, the Carlson brothers, I don't know them, but they seem,
21:09
from the outside,
21:10
like, good dudes, do you think that
21:13
Is that Do you know him? And is that a is that a character a characterization
21:17
that you'd challenge?
21:19
Yeah. I mean,
21:21
That's exactly what I'm doing.
21:24
So,
21:26
you know, let's they don't meet my standards for good dudes.
21:31
And so,
21:32
you know, good news is not what you say publicly. It's what you do privately.
21:37
And,
21:38
Yeah. I I just think that, like, right now, you're like a loose cannon, and I love it. And I find it incredibly refreshing.
21:45
Because from the outside, you've raised money from amazing people at a fourteen billion dollar evaluation. You are like the guy right now. And I'm just I think it's cool. And I'm shocked, but I think it's cool that you're that you've just said that. I I think that that's I've never heard that before. Me and Sam both have definitely like a rebellious streak in us, and we've told some stories on the pod about situations where where we do kind of, like, not
22:09
keep it muzzled.
22:11
And, you know, sometimes that works to our benefit, and sometimes there's some, you know,
22:15
collateral damage or some, you know, some blowback from it.
22:19
I gotta ask you. News came out. I don't know. Yesterday, today, day before, you're stepping down as CEO of Bolt. Okay.
22:27
Did you get in trouble? What happened here?
22:29
So
22:30
stepping up into executive chairman.
22:34
I like it. I like it.
22:38
Nice. That's the first thing that you, like, come up the shower and it better, like, you write it down. Uh-huh.
22:45
You know, that was actually the truth.
22:48
And,
22:49
you know, it's But, yeah, the stepping up, the worthwhile on Twitter.
22:53
And,
22:55
and I promoted Majju because this guy
22:58
is, like, he schools me on execution every day of the week. So he started off running tech in product. They gave him COL.
23:06
Like, sixty percent of the company reports into.
23:09
And just, like, my it's on my superpower. My superpower is
23:14
It's creativity, it's visions, culture, it's landing,
23:17
epic deals for the company.
23:19
So now I get to spend a hundred percent of my time on that. So this is something I've Yeah. But that's the the timing is weird. Right? Everyone
23:26
a lot of people online, even though it's not true, they say Ryan got fired because of what he said. Well, our you know, this is
23:34
This is the start of our fiscal year, ends basically January thirty first, starts February first. And so this was the timing we had planned on for a while.
23:44
And so then I had some people saying you don't think we should wait if people are gonna think it's related to the tweets or whatever.
23:50
And I used to have fear about those types of things.
23:53
In the past, and I think this recent episode
23:57
has just locked again to the my fearlessness even more. I'm like, effort. Like, let's just do it. And as everyone's getting gossip and,
24:06
you know, interpreting their own way, and I actually think that's great.
24:11
Right.
24:12
You're you're crazy. I like it. Yeah. I respect that. And also,
24:16
I respect the move, not the the CEO part. Right. Great. That's that's fine. I I don't know. I don't know anything about that, but, for the for the content that you're putting out. So,
24:26
we've talked before about
24:28
about how to pick a fight. In fact, there's a there's a passage from a book called rework called Pick a Fight. It's a marketing strategy,
24:35
and it's like a two page thing. And I remember earlier on the pod. I literally read it word for word because I was like, this is a great idea, and I think this is when,
24:43
the guys from thirty seven signals were picking a fight with Apple.
24:46
And saying, you know, this is not right or Fortnite, you know, Epic games from Fortnite was picking a fight with Apple. And,
24:52
and we talked about, you know, there's a there's an art to doing this. Like, first, you know, you can't just completely make something up. Right? You gotta have actual reason to pick a fight. But then you wanna pick a fight, not when you're punching down. You wanna punch up. At, you know, the the whoever is, they sort of, like, the power.
25:09
And when you do that, you're gonna get this groundswell of a attention
25:14
b support,
25:15
and c, other stories will come out of the woodwork that'll make you seem even more credible.
25:19
And,
25:20
and you get your name out there. So, like, you know, I don't know how many people knew about Bolt for this because it's like, okay, you know, check out technology is not the most, like, in your face. You know, it's not Snapchat. It's not like a pop like like a product everybody uses.
25:33
But a lot more people know about it now. And so how conscious were you? I mean, how strategic was it that you were, you're thinking, you know what? Like, I think if we come out with this story,
25:43
Yes. I'll be helping people understand how the game is played, but I think this will be good for Bolt too.
25:48
Yeah. I mean, I I think
25:50
doing
25:51
what you believe to be
25:53
right
25:55
will always pan out in the end.
25:57
And so
25:59
I think
26:00
This was, I stand by a decision. I think it's great for both. It shows the world who we are
26:06
as a company.
26:08
It it shows that we're gonna stand up for what's right no matter how controversial
26:13
that may be.
26:14
We're gonna stand up to the big guys is literally what our entire product
26:19
is about.
26:21
And what I've wrote to my team,
26:24
you know, when I was doing this, I said, just because our company is worth billions of dollars,
26:29
you know, I'm not gonna become a sell out founder.
26:33
Like
26:34
it's
26:35
worth way more financially for me to go become buddies with all these guys.
26:39
Right?
26:41
But every cell in my body, my my spirit won't let me do that. And so for me, it was a way of telling the world who I am as a leader.
26:50
And I'm trying to, you know, set
26:53
an example of fearless
26:56
leadership
26:57
for the next generation of founders
26:59
because I think we lack it. Like, I can't point to too many leaders in this country
27:04
who are truly fearless who stand up for what they believe in
27:08
and I think a lot of leadership is fear based. And, I think we have to kill that.
27:15
I I agree with you. I I'm I'm entirely on board with you. I think
27:20
the
27:21
I don't I don't actually think this is my stance, but I in fact, it's not my stance, but at first it was, but it's changed a bit And that's that,
27:29
like, I don't know if what you're saying is necessarily true, and I saw a lot of people who used to have your position where they're the underdogs, like Sam Altman and Gary Tan,
27:40
they're not anymore. Now they're like the man, you know, the folks in charge. But in there, like, This guy Ryan is lying. He's false. He's he's just full of it. And so it's like really hard to take a side right now because of this he said, she said, even though I I totally agree with you that they are this, like, cool kid group, and it's always fun to stick it to that cool kid group. Honestly, the things you said that they did this is, like, actually credit to you. The things that you said that they did are not even that bad. Like, the he said she said doesn't even really matter because it's, like,
28:08
If they did it. Okay. Even if they did it, it's not the worst thing in the world. If they didn't do it, nobody's gonna know how to prove it. Kinda doesn't really matter. I think you pointed out the overall power dynamic,
28:19
and that's what was important. And then you just, like, got your story out there about who you are, your bolt, what your point of view is, whether people agree with you or not, that's their choice, but, but I think it's actually it actually emphasizes how brilliant the the tactic was that it's not even, like, the most scandalous
28:35
you know, Theranos, does this work? Is it a giant fraud? Is it deception at the highest levels? No. It's not. Even if the accusation is true, it's not, but it got so much play because of a, you're a good writer, and b,
28:46
everybody is so afraid to say a word against them. Like, I got one of my my most viral tweets was then I came and said that clubhouse is gonna fail. And,
28:55
here here's why. I think here's how I think it goes down.
28:58
And,
28:59
and it's because at the time, clubhouse was the darling. Every VC was fighting to get into the deal. Everybody was on clubhouse every night talking about how great clubhouse is. That was the only topic they knew what to talk about, and that's why it faded quickly because you go on the product, all you could talk about is the product. It's gonna fail.
29:13
And and so,
29:15
and I got privately, I got a bunch of messages.
29:17
From high profile people who are like, dude, I could never I can't. Sorry. I can't retweet this to, like, show support for this just because of, you know, politics, but dude, I totally agree with you. I, like, or, like, I'm glad somebody fucking said it. I don't believe in the shit at all.
29:32
I had one person, you know, these are all blue check marks. Do people must be smoking crack if they think that this thing is gonna work. And so did you get, like, the the DM back channel support of people who are like, look, I can't come out and I don't wanna get YC on my bad side, but, like, dude, you're so right. Hundreds.
29:50
You know? Exactly. If I if I was if I had any nervousness about doing it beforehand.
29:56
The outpouring that I got afterwards
30:00
just gave me all the conviction in the world that this was the right thing to do.
30:04
Has a hundreds of founders reached out to me
30:07
thanking me many of them sharing their stories with me
30:11
about what encounters they've had
30:15
and, you know, this this stuff is happening. This stuff is rampant. And so, yeah, I had all of those messages. All all you are missing you needed a movement people could, could rally behind and say. You need a hashtag. YC has done this to me also. The problem is why is everyone so afraid?
30:31
Right?
30:33
Well, why are you asking that question? You know the answer? Right.
30:37
You already said the answer, which is you'd be significantly
30:40
more financially
30:41
successful
30:42
if you just were to shut up. And so that's why I asked you that question are you already very financially successful? On paper, just a bolt. You're very you're set.
30:53
That's on paper, but that's why I was asking do you have this, like, crazy Bitcoin stash? Do you did you have this other stuff? I think even in this, like, tiny version of the interview, you've actually heard four or five examples, like, dropped out of Stanford.
31:06
I'd take some guts to do that when you don't have, like, something else that's working amazing. Yeah. But that's what I was asking. I dropped out just a I wanted to focus on Bitcoin when Bitcoin was nothing at that time. That's fearlessness.
31:18
Start payments company to compete with you know, like, one in one of the most, like, vicious fields,
31:24
where everybody tells you, every everybody who's smart that you respect tells you that this ain't gonna work. Fearless number two. It's going on the four day, basically saying we're gonna only do four four day work weeks because I believe in x y z in terms of company culture coming out against y z. Right? So that's actually, like, several,
31:39
of these kinda, like, you know, it's, like, when I invest in something, I've looked for, like, a bread crumb trail, It's like, oh, actually, I see a trail of this person doing, you know, really bold things or, you know, clever things or hacking different systems. I think they're they're is just gonna be more of that. And so, you know, that's I think that's pretty cool. I wanted to to switch gears a little bit and ask you,
32:01
you
32:03
You are an idea guy. In fact, and when we were driving home from the dinner, you were telling me some different, like, I was like, how'd you get the idea for Bolt? How'd you get the idea for eco? And I just kinda got the got sense that you're an idea guy,
32:14
but you're fully, you know, you've been fully locked in for eight eight years doing one idea.
32:20
So
32:20
want you to get out that little note sheet of, other opportunities, other things that you see that you don't have the time to do or the energy to do or the interest in doing, but you think that These are opportunities that exist. Did you bring any ideas for me? I brought some.
32:34
Okay. Fire them off, and we will we will react to them. So you give us the quick pitch and we'll reach Okay. This is a big one. I think a lot of people are gonna do it if they hear this. So I hope they do.
32:45
I think someone needs to start an investment bank for early stage companies.
32:51
Or they help Okay. To introduce you to a bunch of investors
32:55
You know, they sanity check your deck and materials. They blast off a bunch of intros,
33:01
which is ninety nine point nine percent of the value that YC has Right? I didn't even do that. They don't even send personal intros.
33:09
You're one of four hundred companies. Right? So now you're, you know, the whole company that's being introed.
33:14
You're a serial number here. Literally.
33:17
And so,
33:20
somebody needs to do so that's what I do personally. I've probably done that for two hundred companies, half the size of a y c batch.
33:27
I've done this for. Personally,
33:30
So for founders, it doesn't take very much time. You know, if you have the contact list, if those people trust you, right, you can do it with one email. And then a bunch of follow-up intros if investors are interested.
33:41
And, you know, maybe half an hour, sixty minutes with the founder, making sure their materials are good, giving them some feedback.
33:48
I think there needs to be an investment bank for all stages of company building.
33:54
That's actually a really good idea. How would you, where would you Well, what would be the business model for it? So would you take a percentage of the raise? Would you take equity? Would you take a referral fee from the VCs who want this deal flow? Yeah. We need to take far less than seven percent of the company,
34:08
you maybe take a certain percent of the amount raised, right, and then maybe a little equity. So that's what I do.
34:15
For earlier stages, I take,
34:18
you know, anywhere from a few percent to high single digit percent of of the capital raised.
34:24
And then I would take a little bit of equity,
34:28
and that's
34:29
You do this. Ryan doesn't I do this.
34:33
How much how how how much money have you raised for other companies?
34:36
A ton of money. I mean,
34:39
I don't know what that means. A hundred million or a billion or ten million.
34:43
One company could be. Yeah. I mean, through intros that I've made, hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe I'll put And they've given you a percentage of that
34:52
capital
34:53
raised.
34:54
So I
34:56
used to, I sometimes do this voluntarily for free if I like a founder. I don't think anything.
35:02
And then for some, I take a little bit in advisor shares. It's usually less than a percent.
35:08
It's usually less than how it's actually a great idea.
35:12
It's actually a great idea. Yeah. I think it's a good idea too. But here's the thing. So I used to run this conference business, and it was fun and everything, but the crappy part was the more successful
35:22
the conference got, meaning the more ins I mean, you go you either do more events or you have more people come or you charge more money, but when we the more people who came and the more successful my event got, the worst it got, and it sucked. And so with this if you're doing this, would this be like that where the bigger it got, the less your
35:43
your, like, oh, man, he promotes everything or this brand promotes everything. You know what I mean? Totally. You'd have to be picky with who, you know, who you work with.
35:51
Right? You can't work with four hundred companies every quarter.
35:55
And,
35:56
so sure. And and a company could do this. You could start your own firm. Could team up with people. You can do it as an individual founder.
36:05
You can do this.
36:08
So I think there's many ways to skin this cat
36:11
and many different models here. So This is just a a seed of a thought.
36:16
How did you build that reputation as both a, the guy who knows the investors
36:21
and the the investors trust and, b, the guy that gets his fingers on the has his fingers on the pulse of early stage companies so much so that you're helping them raise money.
36:31
Well, the secret
36:33
that I'd share with any investors is treat founders really well, and they'll refer other founders.
36:40
Right? And so some do that early on,
36:44
then they have a brand,
36:45
and then they you know,
36:47
form an ego. Right? And they forget how that brand was generated in the first place.
36:54
And so
36:55
the the firm that continues with that ethos and hold on to that ethos forever
37:00
is gonna build one of the greatest next generation firms,
37:05
there is.
37:06
And so
37:07
I I developed a reputation
37:10
from founders from being somebody they could call
37:13
about literally anything
37:15
that they don't have to mince their words that they could trust that has their back
37:19
completely
37:22
and so, you know, my only wish is I had more time,
37:26
which that's kind of the challenge, but I every ounce of available time I've tried to dedicate to the next generation.
37:34
And, it's, you know, it's the most rewarding thing I could possibly do.
37:40
I like it. So let's give, I like that idea. I think that's a good one. I've I've said this for a while, which is that,
37:46
like venture
37:47
investing is going into, like, couple big categories, I think. I think there's, like, the big brands
37:53
that are, like, you know, the their their stamp of approval means, like, a lot for you. Whether they're good or bad investors don't really matter. They're, like, the Harvard, Stanford of the world. That's Tekoya YC
38:04
Andrews and whoever else,
38:06
benchmark, whatever. And then there's niche specialists that are like, oh, I know
38:11
robotics better than anybody. And so I'm gonna see all the robotics companies. I'm gonna help them. And even if they get a Sequoia to invest in them, they'll also want the robotics expert in the deal. And then the last one is basically like venture services, which is can you serve the founder in some way? And so if you could help them raise their next round,
38:26
I think that's a smart way to basically
38:29
get yourself into the right companies as long as you're as long as your filter is pretty good. Alright. What else you got? Give us another idea.
38:36
Well, I think Dow's are gonna change the world.
38:40
So,
38:43
and continuation
38:44
of of the spirit of investing in VCs.
38:48
There need to be more VC Dows
38:51
where
38:52
you invest in things
38:54
as a Dow. And why is a VC Dow better than, a normal,
38:58
you know, either individually investing or starting traditional fund. Why is the why is the VC Dow better?
39:03
Because
39:04
it
39:06
relies on the collective intelligence of a group I think,
39:11
it's transparent
39:13
in terms of how it makes decisions.
39:15
I think you can raise capital
39:18
more publicly, and I think your actions are more kind of on a public record.
39:24
So, you know, and frankly,
39:27
The best reason is I think if you're up and coming aspiring
39:31
investor or VC,
39:34
it's way easier because you don't have to spend five years building relationships with LPs,
39:40
you can start a public track record,
39:42
investing
39:43
within your Dow,
39:45
and that track record will you know,
39:48
talk for itself and attract more and more capital.
39:54
Right.
39:55
What have you have you heard of Orange Dow?
39:58
No. What is Orange Dow? So Orange Dow is basically is is what Ryan describing
40:03
but against, you know, his, his enemy, of the of the month, which is, YC. So basically, what it is is
40:10
it's a Dow, which means it's like, if people don't know, it's decentralized autonomous organizations. Basically, in the crypto, it's the crypto version of a company.
40:18
And,
40:19
So what it is is, basically, they made it where only a YC alumni can and enter, and all only YC companies can get funded. So it's a it's an organization whose mission is to fund YC companies,
40:31
and the all of the investors are YC alumni.
40:35
So, basically, it start off with, like, ten or twenty. Now there's a thousand YC alumni
40:40
that are in this. They provide the capital They also provide the deal flow and the diligence and the filtering and whatever else,
40:47
and then they fund YC companies
40:50
And,
40:51
and so if you're a if you're a YC company, you could take money from Orange Dow in addition to these other traditional funds. And with it, you're getting these thousand people And the and the I think the Dow votes on the deal. So the so somebody proposes. I think we should vote. I think we should invest in this company. And then the Dow holds a vote. And it'll come back, you know, seventy percent say yes, thirty percent say no. Let's invest. And it's like a a group group investment fund like that. So I actually I like Y Combinator. I think that the, like, the Paul Graham, I love reading Paul Graham's work. I I like a lot of that guys, but when you're describing this, Sean,
41:24
I understand.
41:26
I am also frustrated. I'm like, oh, so the rich get richer even more and more. Like, it's just, you it's just a it's a circle jerk that that is never ending, and I that frustrates me. I don't wanna I feel like I guess it's definitely part envy of like, well, I'm not in that crowd. Therefore, I miss out. And it's also part like David versus Goliath type of thing. Yeah. I can't stand clubs.
41:51
And so
41:52
it's yeah. I I have the same feeling, Sam. It's just something about it doesn't feel right.
41:57
And even if I was inside of it, you know, I've I've had the opportunity to join a lot of these clubs, and I won't do it because
42:06
you it's also in your self interest not to do it. You know, I could have obviously
42:10
gotten the benefits of them. But, you know, now look at where I am. Like, I'm I'm free
42:16
to do what I want.
42:19
And to speak up how I want. And I don't want to owe any favors
42:23
to anybody.
42:25
And so people But you are are are you free though? Why are why are you free to do this?
42:31
Because
42:32
because he's he's not in a tribe. He didn't he didn't basically
42:35
go into a tribe, which has certain, like, rules. Yeah. But you guys He's he has six hundred employees who he doesn't wanna completely screw over, you know, like,
42:44
some if something bad happens to Ryan that could negatively impact some of his people. He's got some investors that have. I mean, I don't I have accountability.
42:51
Maybe you're single though. To my employees
42:54
and my shareholders.
42:56
Right, to make make them successful
43:00
and better off.
43:02
And I think that's enough.
43:04
Like, I don't need I don't have all these other groups that I'm accountable to.
43:10
In addition to that,
43:12
that, you know, basically makes impossible to say anything.
43:17
And so I I I I consider myself
43:20
fairly free.
43:22
Where are you raised? Miami, Florida.
43:27
And what did your parents do for work?
43:29
My mom was
43:31
worked a local secretarial
43:33
job. My dad had a small business. So I grew up very middle class.
43:38
I went to,
43:39
you know, very lucky again to Stanford on, you know, almost entirely financial aid.
43:45
So grew up without much money, went to a big public high school in Miami,
43:50
four thousand kids,
43:53
grew up in a very diverse environment.
43:55
So I got into break dancing and stuff like that. So when I came to Silicon Valley in Stanford,
44:02
it was like the biggest culture shock.
44:05
Ever because Miami and Silicon Valley, it's like
44:08
it couldn't be more opposite.
44:11
Not anymore. That's true.
44:15
Alright. Did you have any other, ideas you wanted to share with the, the audience?
44:21
Matt.
44:22
I so here's my general theme.
44:26
Is
44:27
and I'll I'll reference Bolt for a second, then I'll talk about it broadly.
44:32
Everything's getting decentralized.
44:34
So if you think about commerce, Amazon was phase one. Right? Network effects, economies of scale, data,
44:42
everything, but on one domain, Amazon dot com.
44:47
And then phase two is you have Shopify, which is all of that power network effects economies of scale, tech
44:53
scale.
44:54
But on one end to end enclosed platform.
44:57
Rangel Both is
44:59
the network effect and the data and the economies of scale in a fully decentralized
45:04
way, completely unbundled,
45:06
completely headless, completely tech stack agnostic.
45:10
And that's why we're such a powerful force
45:14
for commerce. Right? That's why Majju who's our new C CEO He centralized commerce to Amazon for eight years, right now logistics came to us because he saw it getting decentralized and thinks they have the best approach to decentralizing commerce. So I think every industry
45:31
is getting decentralized.
45:33
I think purchasing,
45:35
you're gonna see a tidal wave of purchasing,
45:40
platforms that help you purchase from your neighbors, purchase food locally,
45:46
I think
45:47
the consciousness
45:49
of
45:50
our society is raising. I think we wanna
45:54
buy and purchase things that are good for society, that are sustainable, that are recycled,
45:59
more than things that are flashy.
46:01
You know, I think more people are gonna start wearing t shirts.
46:05
And so I know that wasn't a specific idea, but those are those how I think about things.
46:12
And with your with this whole new like, with you kinda coming out and doing this Twitter thing and accusing these people, it
46:20
it
46:21
like, a smart move, it you seem like you definitely are incredibly smart is, like,
46:27
you know, I'm mad at that that this system exists. And it just so happens I'm working on a solution.
46:33
Is that what you've got up your sleeve? It just might be.
46:38
So what are you gonna do?
46:40
To
46:41
to be announced.
46:43
I've been working on ideas for a while.
46:46
I think there are much better systems that could be created if you think creatively
46:50
about incentive alignment.
46:52
And, I have confidence that, you know,
46:55
Better systems will be created, not just by myself,
46:58
but for others who may see this as an opportunity
47:02
to go build. Well, you realize
47:05
I agree with what you're I I think what you're doing is smart, but, like, if I was a hater,
47:11
if I was Sam Altman or whoever is, like, disagrees with you, I would say, oh, well, he's talking shit because he's launching a competitor.
47:17
And so what what percentage
47:21
What mode
47:22
how are they each playing into this of, like, I genuinely feel this way. And also, I I have something up my sleeve. I wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't
47:31
so distraught with how they operate.
47:34
So
47:35
you know, if they were,
47:38
like,
47:39
a bastion of positivity,
47:41
good advice,
47:44
and, you know, well, if they were a super pro founder,
47:49
I wouldn't be doing this. But I fundamentally do not think they are.
47:54
And so,
47:55
you know And they being y Combinator?
48:00
And are you are you happy right now or do you have like a nervous energy in the morning because of what's going on? I mean, like, I know sometimes when I do something that I, like, I'm happy that I did, wake up in the morning. I'm like, man, I'm getting a lot of hate, though. Like this type of energy just bothers me. What where's your energy right now? I'd like Sean's thing about clubhouse it kinda it wasn't like a career maker, but, like, it wasn't that far from that. But, like, he was getting a ton of hate and, like, I I don't know. I didn't ask him, but I maybe there was some nervous energy in the morning.
48:28
I didn't like how much I started looking at my mentions that next twenty four, forty eight hours because I was like, oh, man, like, that's two days of my life. I kind of let My main focus be, what are people's reactions to this? It was very hard to look away from that for me personally.
48:42
And I'm pretty, like, strong minded about this sort of thing and very, like,
48:46
treat this out the other day. I want my attention to be very expensive.
48:50
But I know once you get, you know, twenty million impressions on some tweet and you're getting fifty thousand, you know, replies or whatever or the heart likes or whatever, you know,
48:59
that's a flood of stuff you can go look about people talking about me, people saying things to me. What are they saying? People hating me? Do I need to defend myself? It it was a bit of a distraction for me. Yeah. So where's your energy right now? Are you nervous? Are you happy? Are you uptight? Where are you?
49:16
Well, I'd be lying if I said I don't care of people think. I mean,
49:20
I obviously do. In fact, I'm doing this because I care of people think so much.
49:26
That
49:27
I want
49:28
the right, you know, I want my opinions out there in the world.
49:32
And so you know, people can update how they think about these things. And,
49:37
I've
49:38
I've been fairing with it pretty well. Like, the yoga, and meditate every day, every morning. And I stay pretty calm and grounded.
49:48
And,
49:49
You know, I think that,
49:51
I feel more,
49:54
more empowered than ever. Just like, I've gotten so much love
49:58
the last few days.
50:00
It's been,
50:01
you know, ninety five percent love.
50:04
And then it's all the people I expected
50:06
to blast on the hate
50:08
who came out of the woodworks. Right? It was like Sequoia VC
50:14
you know, Paul,
50:16
Sam, y c.
50:19
And so that was unexpected. I was actually kinda
50:22
surprised at how
50:24
just like
50:25
crazy their messages were and how hostile
50:28
they were, like, you know, generally
50:31
older. Like, I think they'd be wiser.
50:34
But What what did they say? What did they say? Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna fuck you up. What are they gonna fight you? Or do they say? I mean, like, what what would they say?
50:44
Paul nitpicked on a tweet of mine.
50:46
About Stripe Publishing,
50:48
which basically said because
50:51
I focused on that that this is mania.
50:56
You know, I was manic or something like that.
50:59
And then Sam,
51:01
like,
51:02
just
51:03
like, said something, and then he, like, corrected my spelling,
51:07
which is, like,
51:08
you know, what someone is. Yeah. I saw that. Why he he he he he well, it not even your spelling. He's a white combated two birds, not one. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Most most arrogant most arrogant type of dog you could do. I thought It proved my point. Right? It's like that's what you do in middle school.
51:22
You know?
51:23
And then Like, they might as well have just said, I know you are, but what am I? Yeah. Exactly.
51:28
And then Sean was just, like,
51:30
you know, call that, like, use just
51:33
horrifying words and just, you know, this this guy. The guy the guy from Sequoia. He basically was like,
51:41
this, you know, he's making it sound like everybody was against, but the truth was their numbers just went through. Yeah. Yeah. He started commenting on my metrics.
51:49
Like, just like, you know, it's this only being,
51:52
you know, he could point, like,
51:55
first of all, VCs aren't supposed to comment on metrics.
51:58
Second off, what he said was a blatant lie,
52:02
about our metrics.
52:03
And so another just complete low blow. And so Everybody who messaged you is, like, all of those comments validated what you were saying.
52:12
Like, these are the people you're putting on your cap table. Imagine what you'd have a disagreement with them as a founder. How they're gonna treat you?
52:22
You
52:22
actually think this is gonna be a net net win for you. I think that, like, there's definitely fear if I was you of, like, man, is anyone gonna work with me again? But I think, like, being a good natured loose cannon
52:35
is actually a
52:37
typically a A good natured loose cannon. I like that's a very loose cannon.
52:41
Yeah. Because intentions matter. Entensions matter a lot. So, like, if you're a loose cannon, but you just wanna hurt people, that's one thing. If you're a loose cannon, and you generally wanna help, that's another thing. That's lovable. I actually think this is gonna be a big benefit for you. Do you, are you single? Do you live alone, or do you have a girlfriend or whatever you're into?
52:57
And what what are they saying?
53:00
Well, I have people close with, and,
53:04
like, everyone's super supportive.
53:06
They're like, dude, you're doing what no one else, what everyone was afraid of doing. And I find if you're doing things that other people are afraid to do,
53:14
you're generally in the right.
53:16
So,
53:18
you know, it's a for me, that's a marker of, like, I'm on the right track.
53:24
And, yeah, they're very supportive.
53:27
Have you read the book forty eight laws of power? I haven't, but I want to. I heard it's epic.
53:33
You are doing it. So maybe you should go read it. Try to get it all done pretty soon because you are in the middle of a lot of, like, different strategies that the author discussed. Interesting.
53:43
Alright. I'll go pick it up.
53:46
Yeah. And the author, his name's Robert Green. He's got another one called the thirty three strategies of war, of which you are also doing some of that. But this is very interesting that you're, like, involved in this. What do what do you read on, what have you read that's made an influence on this whole process of yours?
54:02
Well, I read
54:04
a lot of spiritual texts.
54:07
And that has given me the fearlessness to make first principal decisions. Because when you're grounded in spiritual reasoning,
54:17
you're not grounded in mainstream reasoning.
54:20
And so that drove conscious culture
54:22
that drove four day work week
54:24
I'm like, why are we working people to death? It's not healthy. Our health spiritually is very important, sustainability,
54:30
it's important spiritual concept. We have to push four day work week.
54:35
And you know monks,
54:38
certain monks,
54:39
the more, higher on the spec
54:42
on you know, wiser they are more scented they are,
54:46
the longer their sleeps.
54:48
And people are like, oh, wow. It's because they're more docile.
54:52
And it's not the case.
54:54
It's because
54:55
they're actually,
54:57
you know, more combative
54:59
when they see something wrong in the world.
55:02
And so
55:03
for me, like, I've found that kind of the further I've gone and kind of healing myself
55:09
and healing those around me and going inward,
55:13
the more fearlessness I've had externally
55:17
And this is one manifestation of that.
55:20
You are so
55:22
strange. It is awesome. You are so cool.
55:25
I've I've become a fan.
55:27
Sean, I understand what you what you saw in this guy when you had dinner with him. Yeah. Exactly.
55:34
Thanks. Thanks for coming on. Twenty seven. Twenty eight. Right. Twenty nine. Twenty seven. You are the weirdest twenty seven year old I've met. That is what a unique what a unique perspective. It just you're you're you're interesting.
55:45
TBD, if if if if this battle, I hope I hope you win this battle, but, like, you're definitely gonna win some big war. That's for sure. We're looking forward to it. Fight the war.
55:55
Cool. Let's go. Alright.
55:57
So people people should go follow you on on Twitter. I think that's the best spot what's your handle? It's like King Ryan or something? The Ryan King.
56:05
The Ryan King.
56:07
Why why is that your name?
56:09
I think it's fitting.
56:12
Oh my gosh. This is awesome. Okay. And there's a great meme. I don't know if you saw it, but you posted another you posted a thread about the mob and Yc mafia, then he puts another friend. Why Yc isn't worth it? And, like, one of the first replies I saw was this meme of, like, this wife asleep and the husband's, like, like, reaching over to her, and he goes, honey, wake up. The Bolt guy did another thread.
56:32
And I thought it was so funny.
56:35
Some people should follow you. That handle actually. My grandparents always used to call me the Ryan King. So
56:41
call me that growing up, and I'll just, like, oh, it's a great handle.
56:45
Let's go for it.
56:47
Hello, dude. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. And, good luck with all the, all the stuff going on. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Sam. Sean, such a pleasure.
56:54
See you. See you. Alright.
56:57
Ryan just left. Alright. What'd you think?
56:59
That guy's
57:01
So, like, let's separate this current,
57:04
like, where do I think he's right or wrong?
57:07
I I don't I haven't investigated him. I think he's right. May maybe, but I haven't I don't hold that externally, but as a person,
57:13
this guy is a killer. I'm team Ryan,
57:16
at just in life. This guy is so unique. Unique. Yeah.
57:20
He, he's a very unique guy. He's got a very unique style of speaking.
57:25
Yes. Like, I I usually have a bias against people who speak slowly.
57:29
Oh, he's talked so slow, but I loved it. And so,
57:33
and I I've noticed that about myself that I'll, like, I'll instantly kind of Okay. This person's talking slowly.
57:40
If they don't, like, have something super interesting to say right away, I find myself tuning out. But when I'm Ryan, he was talking really slowly, but then he would say one thing that would just grip me and I'd be like, wait, what? And then he would say the next, and then they would, like, be another minute, and he'd get me with another one and another one. I was like, wait. Think this guy might be one of the more I was like, how old are you? He's like, I think I met him when he's twenty six or twenty seven. And I was like, you're one of the weirdest, and you said it perfectly. You, you know, you are the strangest twenty seven year old I've ever met, and it's awesome. And that was my exact takeaway. And then I was like, I was leaving the dinner, and I was like,
58:12
You wanna just hang more? You wanna how about I drive here? Where are you going? And he's like, oh, that'd be great. And then it canceled his Uber and he hopped in the car. And I just drove him around. We just talked some more because I found him to just be a very,
58:24
interesting person. And,
58:26
you know, I like the stuff that he stands for.
58:30
Which is great.
58:32
In our text group ahead of this, people were saying, oh, yeah. You know, he probably has sold a ton of secondary. He probably made all this money on Bitcoin, and maybe that's one of the reasons why he's able to kinda be this, like, loose cannon, say whatever he wants. He said that that's not true. Yeah. I don't think that that's true. I don't think he's a liar. I mean, but I, obviously, I don't I'm sure he's doing fine. Right? Bolt's fourteen billion dollar company now.
58:54
I think, you know, that's what I said. He can get fired and his equity will still be there for him. You know, that's okay. Like, that that wouldn't be You know, I think that that's the safety net, but like I had said in the thing, he's got a track record of just kinda doing things his own way. So I'm not really surprised. And I also think He didn't say anything bad and all I think actually it's a whole bunch about nothing.
59:13
He did say something bad on the pod though. He said, I am saying that the Stripe brothers are bad.
59:20
I said, you think they're good dudes? And he goes, no. I don't think they're good to I don't think they're good. Yeah. But That's what he I don't think that's that bad. I I you're allowed to say, I, you know, I don't think these are these are good dudes. I think that's bad, man. I think that's bad. I think that that that is a stripper.
59:35
That's a very simple word, a bad and good, but like what's it's like to say someone, I don't think he's I don't think this person's a good person. That's a really strong thing to say. I feel like we save stronger than that every episode about people we know half as much about. But, like, I I text you that all the time. I'm like, hey, this person messaged me. I I might work with them on x, y, and z. Are they a good person? Right. And if the answer is yes, that's it. Right. I think there's no that that's it as well. Now I would say
01:00:00
I think the things that he said that they did, I don't think they're that bad at all. And again, I'm an investor in both. I like Ryan and her friends. So, you know, like, I'm I'm not agreeing with them that they're that bad,
01:00:11
even if they did it. But that's okay. Like, he he's totally allowed to think that those are fucked up things.
01:00:16
I think that those are pretty much fair play.
01:00:19
I think it's really funny the way that people reacted to it, and I think it's really good for him and good for their brands the way people reacted to it. So good on him for for, using them in a way
01:00:30
to build
01:00:31
the the brand of what he's doing and also put his stake in the ground and say this is what I think is right wrong. I think they did wrong. You know, he's fair to say that even if my stake would have been ten feet over to the left.
01:00:42
I I this guy's interesting. That was a good find. So I don't know where the in the episode, this little segment's gonna go in the beginning and the end, but that's what we think about that guy. That guy was fascinating. I could talk to him for a long time. Yeah. I'm older than him, but I would like look up to him. And I think that in his you know, when he was on here, I think he was, you know, trying to do a good job kind of representing what he stands for. Like, I think most people do. If you go, I think most people's default. If I get invited onto a podcast, I'm gonna go on. I'm gonna try to, like, you know, say all the right things. So I think he was definitely doing a little bit of say the right things stuff, but actually having talked to him in private. He actually was very similar where he's like,
01:01:17
you know, I believe in this. I think it's gonna be awesome.
01:01:21
I think we're gonna win.
01:01:23
I'd be like, yeah. But, like, you know, we're just shooting this late night dinner over two drinks, like,
01:01:28
but he was just, like, I said what I said, and I meant what I said. You know, like,
01:01:33
I think this is awesome. I think I've, you know, this is the best. I think this is totally gonna work. I think blah blah blah. So, like, I think he has a very,
01:01:42
singular mindedness
01:01:44
about what he believes in. And I think that's cool to, to to interact with because I think multiple a don't believe anything. B, when they believe they'll hedge,
01:01:52
or, c, they'll kinda be wishy washy about it, or they believe when the lights are on, and then when the lights are not on, they're, you know, are you applying for a job? I thought you just said this is the company that's gonna win. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just a case. You know? Like, there's a wishy washy just to a lot of people. I've he has zero wishy washyness. So, you know, for better or for worse. And I I'm upset at myself. I judged him as being far different just by looking off his profile picture.
01:02:16
What'd you think? He was not just that he was this
01:02:20
like, I thought he was what people accused me of being of this, like, blond hair, white Brow who
01:02:26
had everything in life handed to them who,
01:02:29
is gonna be kind of, maybe not as intellectual kind of a a a an
01:02:34
alpha. Right. You know, like this this stereotype that it's not an insult necessarily, but I wouldn't be proud of my opinion. I just think I'm just like a good looking strong, muscular,
01:02:44
successful guy, and I just feel like it's unfair.
01:02:48
Well, I'm not talking about myself, but, like, with him, I'm like, well, because he went Stanford. He dropped out of Stanford, was in Bitcoin forever, so it was like crazy rich at a young age. He said he's from Miami. So in my head, I'm like, Oh, okay. Fine. You've had fun. I paid you. Yeah. This is like this this is this thing that you're calling life is a game for you. Right. And in reality, he was incredibly intellectual,
01:03:09
very intriguing. I believe him that he that, like, I understand that you can be very wealthy on paper, but, like, he has lot of stuff. So, like, that's an interesting perspective. So I thought he was cool different than what I thought he was gonna be. I enjoyed it. Yeah.
01:03:22
Cool. Let us know what you think. If you want us to do kind of more of these or less of these, you could tweet at us. And, you know, we we take you into consideration. We don't necessarily listen, but we we we like to know what you think, and then we may not do it.
00:00 01:03:51