00:00
Back to the point of, you know, getting top tossed a deep end. You know, I'm doing
00:04
stand up for about two years.
00:07
Fastest comic to ever get a a network special at show time. So I was like, no. For the most part, people were like, oh, this guy's been, you know, two years. This is good for him.
00:15
No, man. When you do that, what happens is it actually pushes you further away from them.
00:24
We're live now. Fred and Shop, what's going on? I'm Sam. This is
00:33
Sean,
00:35
we just get right into things, but we, Sean and I have been huge fans of you for a long time. We were both huge UFC fans. We go to a a bunch of those shows been watching you on fire of the kid for a while.
00:46
Then the show with Theo von. Yeah. That was awesome. So we've been fans forever. I think, We've each actually might have a thick boy shirt. I love it. I love the shirt, just the body, actually.
00:58
So I'm a real fan. I went all I went all way. Dinks in the heart, fellas, dicks in the heart. I don't drink. Otherwise, I would have your your whiskey. Whiskey stuff.
01:09
But, you know, you do lots of stuff
01:11
like, I'll I'll kinda give, like, what I know about you. But, basically,
01:15
you were you're from Colorado
01:17
played a little bit in the NFL. I don't know if you actually made the cut entirely, but you were, like, very serious, for the Bronco's.
01:24
Went to the UFC. You did awesome. You knocked out some great guys Yeah.
01:29
And then,
01:30
you got into show business via podcast. So you originally were just on Joe rogan a bunch eventually launched your own thing. And now you have fighter in the kit, but you also have, like, three or four other podcasts, right, that I don't know how how How big are they? I mean, I know that you get you have hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and I each video gets, like, hundreds of thousands of views. I actually don't know, like, how big the empire is. Yeah. Sure. So just going back to, like, the football. Yes. I played,
01:56
at University of Colorado for the buffs. Who they just got de on sand or something. Sorry about that.
02:02
And then I had a a cup of coffee with the Buffalo Bills. And I got there and they're like, we're all set on slow white guys. So that broke my heart. And then I,
02:12
and then I,
02:14
Yeah. Then from there, I'll sell in supplements door to door. Like, receive a happiness style. And then I started training in jujitsu and boxing, and then next thing you know, you know, I'm fighting grown men in a steel cage in my underwear.
02:26
And then,
02:27
two years after I started trading, I was
02:31
in the UFC, I made it through, the ultimate fighter who has a finalist there. With Kimbo slice. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It was the biggest season with the shot evidence and rampage,
02:41
Jackson. So, yeah, man, you know, shortly after that, you know, there's a common theme in my life like, I get put in the deep end, man. It goes zero to a hundred in every aspect of my life. It's just this common theme throughout my entire career, whether comedy football,
02:55
fighting, whatever it is, podcasting, I get thrown in the deep, and then I gotta figure it out. So, I was in the UFC and then probably two years in the if the next scene on ranked top ten in the world, you know, and it was terrifying.
03:08
But then slowly after that, I
03:11
I moved to LA because I grew up in, Venice beach in the summers at my uncle's house when I was a, a young boy, my dad would always bring me out here for the summers.
03:19
So I always felt, you know, a weird connection to Los Angeles. So once I could make the move, I made the move and then I started a podcast. This is damn near Eleven years ago, twelve years ago, I started a podcast called the fighter and the kid with Brian Cowen.
03:35
And, yeah, that thing took off, and then now fast forward to twenty twenty three. I own a a podcast network. So, Think Boy Network where we have,
03:45
you know, probably around seven shows.
03:47
You know? So, yeah. So between the fire and the kid, the shop show, food truck diaries,
03:53
fight companion,
03:55
the golden hour, You know, it's, it's going well. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Yeah. Your, your output's pretty insane. And, you know, the thing about you you said you got thrown in the deep end and and you're kind of right. Like transitioning from football to UFC was a really short transition. And then you're doing it kind of the high level. You're in the actual UFC. It takes most guys, like,
04:15
a long long amateur journey, then they go to a small promotion, then they go to a bigger promotion.
04:20
You kind of fast track that. And then in comedy, you did the same thing where you kind of went from, I'm a UFC fighter to a comedian, so I got a special on Showtime really fast. And I think there's probably, I don't know, I don't know how you think about it now, but, like, there's good and bad with with that fast track. On one hand, you learn fast. On the other hand, you kinda get your ass kicked because you're pushing the boundary
04:42
further than maybe you were ready for or had Well, you're learning and you're learning publicly.
04:46
Yeah. There you go. Correct. So it's,
04:49
you know, on hindsight looking at it, e even when I was in the UF the landing comedy. I just I I wish I had people around me that went. Slow
04:57
down man. Now I'm fighting
05:00
you don't really have that option once you're in the UFC,
05:03
You know, it's the big league. So they, you know, they call you with Merco Crokop or Matt Matrone or it's, you know, Brock Lesner, you gotta take the fight. So you really don't have control there. I could've been smarter about making decisions while I was young, you know, and had a lot of belief in myself and, you know, eventually that experience catches up with you. You know, I I was a lot more athletic than a lot of those heavyweights. That's why I excelled so fast, but Again, that's a blessing and a curse because
05:31
you get to a level where your fight is vets with forty, fifty fights. And they've seen a athletic dude, you know, with a good right hand and no good wrestling. But, you know, eventually, you know, you're this cheat code and it catches up to you and there's nothing replaces the experience. So
05:46
That was a blessing and a curse. A blessing as far as I was able to transition, get out and build a fan base and go into something I've always wanted to do. And then in comedy,
05:55
You know, really, you know, it's true. When I started comedy, you know,
05:59
I have some great mentors, you know, and Joe Rogins like the brother and Brian Hallett and Dio Vaughn and Tom Seger and Bert
06:06
Chrysler.
06:07
I have just this
06:09
plethora of just amazing comments that I was around.
06:13
And I I I was only, you know, I'd go to dinner with him and do all, you know, the podcast. We're gonna make him laugh and all encouraging you to stand up, which I, you know, always wanna do since I was a child. So,
06:24
you know, everyone told me it's it's gonna be ten years, before you find your voice. I'm like, yeah, that you know, I'm never scared of hard work. Let's do it. So
06:32
the issue with that is
06:34
you know, I get catapulted.
06:36
You know, I'm instead of doing open mites, you know, one of my first,
06:40
things I did was, you know, Chicago theater, you know,
06:44
the big theater, which you how did you even start? Because it's a big jump from oh, this dude's funny when we hang out. Cracks jokes, bus ball. Oh, oh, yeah. This guy this guy's good. He's a funny guy to you're on stage and you gotta do a set. That's, like, that's, like,
06:59
It's it's like a different thing altogether. And, you know, me and Sam, we try to, like,
07:05
we we try to be,
07:07
funny in our little pond. It's like, you don't have to be that funny to be the funniest business podcast. So we We're we're we're a dwarf among midgets is what we are.
07:15
Yeah. It's like like, you don't wanna have that funny uncle at the party, you know, and if you're, you know, if you're your brother's, like, man, I think you're really funny that there's a big difference between
07:24
Your family and friends going, oh, you're funny, man. You should try stand up and then,
07:28
Bert Chrysler, Joe Rogen, joey Diaz, Kallen, Chris Deli and Theo von doing, dude, you need to stand up. But, you know, you got What did you even do though to to develop that first hour? Are you reading a book? Are you, are you just done with a Joe's house with a notepad and being like, Hey. How do I write this shit? No. It's like sink or swim, soaks. You know, I had my ten thousand rep reps on podcasts with comedians keeping up with them, making them laugh and, you know, really quick at it. And then Really, it it's almost the perfect situation in order to get started in stand up because the find the kid got, you know, so popular. We do live find the kids.
08:03
But remember, Brian Gall's been in comedy for thirty years. So
08:07
when they we got off to do a live fire and the kid, I told Brian, I'm like, you ever been to a live podcast? They suck. Two guys on my they do the worst, dude. And Riley's no man. No. No. I've been showcasing this for thirty years. We're gonna do performance.
08:20
So I go, okay. What do you wanna do? So he came up with this whole idea to make it a show. And, Brian, at the time, knew I wanted to do Santa, but he didn't wanna
08:28
I guess scare me because it is scary, you know, just just what you do in front of these soul out crowds when most people are doing open mites with fifteen other salty comets, you know, So for me, you know, doing it a sold out crowd,
08:39
Brian Goat. Alright. Here because Brian was always late to the podcast. You know, I'm I'm very
08:44
I'm I'm I'm not late. I'm never late. Whatever twelve years of podcasts, I've never been late. It's not what I do. So Brian
08:52
would be late and he used to drive me nuts. I used to roast him every time coming late. He goes, I so our first live show, let's keep up with the theme. We're gonna pretend I'm late. I'm not there, and you gotta start the show by yourself. So you're gonna tell a story for ten minutes, and I'll come in. You get all upset. We do the whole act. I'm like, alright. Cool. I mean, I can handle that. So I tell a story to just get it telling stories.
09:12
So that carries on for, you know, four or five shows, and then I get wrapped.
09:16
I forget, probably Portland or Seattle, some sold out theater.
09:20
And,
09:21
I'm backstage before the the crowd. I'm pretty nervous. I tell Brian, man, I don't know
09:25
story, I didn't tell him. You know, Brian was like, frantic. He's, you know, again, he's looking for something. He goes, what? I don't know what story man told you. He was, what are you talking about story? You know, you're doing stand up dumbass. I was, like,
09:36
Oh, shit. And then it just clicked. I'm like, oh, so storytelling.
09:40
You just told me that, because you didn't wanna skimp me. He goes, crap. You're doing stand up, dude. I was like, oh, that's what I'm doing. So
09:47
shortly after that, I come to the realization, like, this is stand up. Usually, it's just your way of doing it. So then
09:54
we do a live fight with the kid at the comedy store. You know, the world famous comedy store, which as a kid was, like, you know, the mecca. It's like Messin Square Garden for basketball. So
10:03
I, we do their commie store.
10:06
It goes great. And then six weeks or six days later I'm driving, I get a call from the Magic of commie store, Emily. She calls me and she goes, Hey, Brad. This is Emily at the comedy store. You're like, hey, how you doing? She was a great show the other day. I'm like, thank you. She goes, hey, we're seeing if you'd like to do a set in the belly room. See, give give you six minutes.
10:22
I go, let me call Brian Cal and see if he's available. She was no dumbass.
10:26
Just you. You had a great set the other night. I'm like, me? You want me to do stand up at the time you start? She goes, yeah, it's a it's in the small room, the belly room, but if you want six minutes to draw her, so I was like, say less. So I did that. There was just, you know, that was in two thousand
10:41
fourteen, two thousand fifteen ish, like, early two thousand fifteen. Probably right around end of two thousand fourteen. And then just, you know, you get that bug and then
10:49
it's off to the races, man. You know, I knew it was, you know, it takes a takes a lot of work, but back to the point of, you know, getting tossed a deep end. You know, I'm doing
10:58
stand up for about two years. I think I'm the fastest comic to ever get a a network special at show time.
11:04
And,
11:05
you know, I I I just
11:08
in in my eyes, I thought at the time, how do I have special your honor, I I challenge any colleges with a two year two years to do a network special and have sixty minutes, you know? Now is it as good as Bill Burr special? No. But in my head, I thought,
11:23
people would see that and go, oh, my god. For only do it two years? Look at this guy. Think how much better he's been getting four years and five years and ten years and it's gonna be on fifteen years.
11:33
But a lot of people don't have that insight. They just They don't give a shit about that. Yeah. They don't see it like that. And, you know, I and again, you know, since a while ago, so I was young, and I I always
11:42
it it might be it could be an asset or it could be a huge gaping hole that I have, but I always see the best people in society. Like, I don't pay attention to, hey,
11:51
Everything's all good. You know, I just I, you know, I gravitate towards positivity. So I was like, no. For the most part, people were like, oh, this guy's, you know, two years, this is good for him.
12:00
No, man. When you do that, what happens is it actually pushes you further away from them. I thought it'd bring me closer to being legit and be like my peers. No. It pushes you farther away because a lot of those guys that I mentioned earlier on. And even outside of those guys, a lot of famous comedians, it took them fifteen.
12:20
Twentieth year network special. So there's a lot of
12:24
it's I'm in jealousy. It's just, like, you know, it just rubs people the wrong way. And I didn't see that coming. I gotta be honest. I don't think
12:32
really anybody did, you know, but it is what it is. You know, you do that and you move on, And you just keep grinding and you go to the next one, the next one. So,
12:41
yeah, it's been interesting, man. It's been really interesting. I learned on the fly. I also learned the hardest way. That's only way I make changes. I learned the hard way. So,
12:49
I I wouldn't change anything. You know, things are pretty good. Are you the the
12:54
CEO of the network now? I mean, how are you so you're having to be the talent and you're running the business?
13:00
Yeah. Heavyized the crown, man. So I grew up in a a business minded family. My dad's a up entrepreneur.
13:06
You know, he's always been business minded. I have a,
13:09
double major from University, Colorado Socialology and business. So I was gravitated towards business.
13:16
And, you know, I worked for showtime for six years, I built their entire, you know, podcast branch, which is crushing it now and shout out to Brian Daily, and, you know, at the end of six years, so this is December
13:27
last year, twenty twenty two, six months prior, they offered me another six year contract, and I I was just looking around and she thought it was great to me. You know, I was getting a salary and, you know, they're reaping the benefits and it was good for both sides. I stopped, man, I I feel like I could do this on my own. You know, I am an entrepreneur. I feel like I could I see what they'd bill and, you know, and I've helped them out a lot. They've helped me out a lot. I feel like it can invest in my and do this on my own. So I turned down the contract. I was like, I'm a do it on my own start, Dickboy Studios.
13:56
Then I owned all the IPs to the all the shows that I started with him, so I brought that over.
14:01
And it's, you know, it's in hindsight. I I didn't
14:04
just you know, I didn't really know who to talk to. No nobody in my lane kinda has done this where you leave a major network and podcasting and bring it over on your own,
14:14
And it's it's a different animal when you're not only talent, but you're also running the business side. Money for that, or did you just self fund it? What'd you do? Yeah. So funded it from all the other shows in stand up. I just put all my money into that. And then Whenever I start a new thing, I'm like, you know, people are like, oh, congrats
14:33
And I'm like,
14:34
ask me in a year. Like, we'll find out. We're what's gonna be fun to find out, like, this is either a bad idea, It's an alright idea or it's an amazing idea. We'll find out because, you know, I go into things
14:45
relatively
14:46
blind. Like, I don't do a ton of research before I go into things, but I I got confidence. I'll figure things out eventually.
14:52
But the reality is that some some ideas are better than others. So a year in now, owning your own pod network. Is this a bad idea? Good. Okay. Good idea, or is it an amazing, is it an amazing business? I think it's still
15:05
too early to tell oh, meaning we're year in financially. Am I making more money? Yes. But, you know, that can't just be the the main
15:14
focus, you know, because my life's more complicated. You know, my life's more complicated. I have less free time. So what's that worth? Know, so there's like these pros and cons I didn't think about because at showtime,
15:25
I was the talent I would create shows. They would make it happen. You know? And they would have the employees and the creative team and the producers and the editors, and I was I would come up with ideas. They would you to, I would sit down, knock it out. Great. You paid for that and move on and did not worry about to, you know, the next day or the next week. Now it's a little different. Now
15:48
you know,
15:50
I would say one of my biggest kind of,
15:54
fault is
15:56
Not like I'm I'm a control freak, so I need help. And and I'm getting there, but and I just, you
16:02
know, You want somebody to care as much about your business as you do. That's impossible to find. And, you know, with showtime,
16:09
they're CBS. So they're doing all the right stuff as far as hiring and, you know, and bringing in the right people,
16:16
and I didn't take that into consideration. Like, hiring it off hard to stop finding good employees and people that have to care and can get the job done, they mold with the team and gel with the team. So It's just those kind of dynamics I didn't even think about. And then also, when you're at Showtime, you know, for six years, and we started with zero subscribers,
16:34
Then six years later at, like, six hundred thousand, you know, well known in the space, rut for awards,
16:41
you're starting from
16:42
Dear dead zero again. So that's six years that you built for them. That doesn't come with you. I don't own that showtime page. That's their cell. You just start from zero again. I think we're at, like, a hundred and sixty, a hundred and seventy thousand now, a year end, which isn't bad, but it's, you know, it just takes time to keep chipping away chipping away. So
17:00
What about a listener? Like, Sean and I, the metrics that we know is downloads,
17:05
which is when we describe downloads as, like, Spotify YouTube and also
17:09
iTunes and all that shit. Whether you what what's the size of your biggest show, I think, is Fire and the kid. What what size are you guys at now for that? We we do. We look at it per episode because otherwise, you can get a lot of downloads if you pump out more and more episodes. Like, per episode is the real real deal for, I think, for for these shows. Well, see, so finally kid and the golden hour, which formally known as king of the sting with the Avon. So finally king of king of sting, even though they're on the Thinkboy network,
17:34
those haven't changed. Just under my banner. But those have tho those weren't part of showtime at all. Showtime was,
17:41
below the belt, which is now the shop show, food truck diaries,
17:45
and some other shows. And then I wasn't doing fight to pay with them. That's all new. So,
17:51
you know, I would say they probably cut my audience in half,
17:56
you know, pry pry in half. Mhmm. And what what what's the fighter and the kid at?
18:01
Finally, kid. I mean, now now we're going down, you know, you're going down a
18:05
a different road because there's factors there that
18:09
have,
18:11
you know,
18:12
caused that showed, like, you know, your way of doing it for twelve years, it it's like this. You know, it's like this. So, you know, we've been as high as six hundred thousand an episode as low as a hundred thousand episode.
18:23
So that that and it's You know, there's been some outlying factors,
18:27
you know, that that caused those issues. So each and that with the changing of King of this thing with field leaving, you're talking about a whole new show, so you start from basie from scratch again to start with Kristalia.
18:38
And then at Griffin, it's a completely different show that dynamics, completely different. So you're reinducing
18:43
that show to kind of a although there was an audience there, I think we're at five hundred thousand subscribers. Those five hundred thousand scribers were there for Theo Vada, Brendan job. So when you go, alright, well, here's Brandon and Kristalie and Eric. Some people will know we'd like to dial it with Theo and Brendan. So That's fairly new. You know, that's about six months old. So, you know, that one's probably around a hundred fifty, two hundred thousand just on YouTube.
19:08
But,
19:09
I think a lot of people in podcasting,
19:11
because it's the thing in twenty twenty three is they look at YouTube, YouTube, YouTube, YouTube, YouTube.
19:17
Audio's king. Vote, for the most part, people listen to podcasts on their way to work or when they're at the office, though we sit now and walk to the podcast for two hours or three hours where the However, in one of your podcasts is the audio is key. So my main metric that I focus on is always audio. Now if audio start to go down, we got problems. Yeah. We're at, like, when we'll we'll have guests on every once in a while, and they'll be like, are you guys big and more and they'll just look at the YouTube? And, like, our YouTube only gets, like,
19:45
thirty thousand, twenty thousand, all the way up to two hundred thousand per episode. But then our audio, it's, like, consistently a hundred, two hundred thousand ish or something like that. Like, consistently
19:54
every single time. Yes. And that and that's crushing it. And I'm like, no. It's pretty big. It's just, like, you can't see those numbers, but our Our audio. I mean, it's like that's like as true to subscription as you can get because it's just consistently
20:09
a big
20:10
Yeah. Audio's king, but this new generation of podcasters coming in, you know, you see the Logan Pauls or the Andrew schultz of the world and You know, Logan was massive on YouTube, but it's again, it and I don't know what Logan Paul's numbers are as far as audio. Logan Paul's a buddy. I guess I could find out, but
20:28
because he's, like, YouTuber, his his numbers are masked by YouTube. I'd be curious to see what his audio is like because again, audio is king in podcasting. So I never focus on YouTube too much. Now if there's a decline, you're like, I we gotta figure this out, then we'll work to it. But if my audio's solid, I don't You know, I'm not there's no red flags. What's your ambition level in terms of this business? Like, are you are you thinking, like, I think we can get to ten million revenue, or is it, like, I wanna exit a hundred million, I think we can get the fifty million in revenue. Where do you where where's, like, your
21:00
not quite north star, but, like, your two, three, five year goal? Yeah. That's a that's a great question.
21:06
Rob Dierdick's a good buddy, and she's such a I don't know. Yeah. Rob Dierd would be great for you guys. We we've had we've had him on an killed it. We we we were,
21:14
I I think we were a little bit early in his, like, public business persona, and we had him, and he blew us away. He was amazing.
21:21
I've known Rob for years. I always knew he was just, like, so volatile when it comes to business. He makes so many great decisions. And he came into the Think Boys Studios here in Calabasas,
21:30
and
21:32
I was probably, I don't know. He's two or three months into it, you know, so he's still trying to figure it out. And he's looking around. And he's like, man, this is cool. And He's asking all these questions. They kept going, you know, what's your goal? What's your goal? What's your goal? And finally, I think he was even out there. I'm like, do you chill, dude? I was like, Let me get to cruising altitude and get to Wi Fi before I start to figure out goals. I got this thing's just taken off. Once I get to cruising altitude, I'll let you know the goal. So We're kinda getting a cruising altitude.
22:01
I I no. I don't know what the goal is. I think once I get to
22:05
the network where I think it could be at, then I would start looking at other options, but
22:11
the other thing I would say too when as far as business, whether it's whiskey, and verge, whatever it is. Even stand up podcasting, I've never done anything for money ever. I do it because I love to do it, and it's fun for me. And it's what I wanna do. And if it makes money, fantastic,
22:28
man, that's great. But if it doesn't, all good, it's something I wanna do. So Hopefully, this thing goes great and makes a ton of money, and I can retire. When I say retire, do less shows, but with just more money in the bank, but,
22:42
I love doing it. That's why I started it. So what so hopefully, you know, when we do this show and you know, three years or five years. I'm talking to you guys that we're celebrating some big moment, but I couldn't tell you what that looks like. And that might be a problem. I mean, you guys are the business guys. Is is that a problem that I don't have sort some sort of end goal here? You know, maybe you're so so I don't think you gotta have an And, like, what people want, like, a five year plan, then you're, you're kind of, taught this at a young age. Like, you're eighteen years old. What's you gonna major in? Dude, I don't know. I don't know shit about shit yet yet.
23:12
So people are often pushing for that. It's great when you have it. So I always say that if you know the direction you wanna go, you know the outcome. It's great when you have it. But the reality is most people don't have it right off the jump and that's totally normal.
23:26
You just gotta get in motion. Get momentum because as you start going, you'll start navigating. You'll still you'll get a better vantage like, you start climbing the mountain, you're higher up. You could see more, and that'll give you a little more. But I do what I do think helps is
23:38
a vision for your life. So a vision for, like, which what kinda what do you wanna do with your life? Your talents? Or, like, so for example, I might not know I'm trying to hit this revenue target. I'm trying to sell in x years or whatever. But I do usually know, man, it'd be fucking awesome if Dude, what if my job was I literally get to sit down with my friend, Sam, and we just shoot the shit about business, and what if there were millions of people listening to that? Wouldn't that be cool? Yeah. Alright. That's literally when I started this podcast.
24:03
It was I was walking around with a friend. We had just signed the paperwork to sell my my first company.
24:09
And he was like, what do you wanna do next? And
24:12
in Silicon Valley where I live, there's only one answer. I'm a start another company. It's gonna be bigger and better than the ones before that. There's only one socially acceptable answer in Silicon Valley. It's like in Hollywood. If you're not trying to make it, what are you doing here? And so but I gave him the honest answer. I go, you know what? I think what Tim Ferris does is awesome. It seems like that dude gets to wake up.
24:31
Just be curious about shit, run experiments, learn about things, and then he just takes the coolest stuff he learns. He taught and he just gets to talk about it. And a million people have him in in their ears, and he gets to influence a million smart people by sharing little nuggets. I gotta that would be awesome. I wanna be in a a million people's ear balls. And that's just what I kept saying. I wanna be in a million people's ear balls. He was like, dude, I never heard that word, but, like, I he he goes, that's a, like, a that's like a vision for, like, what would be an awesome life. So I I think that sometimes you don't have to have the number
25:00
But it is cool to have a man, that'd be awesome if my life was x or if I was able to do that do x. I remember,
25:07
remember talking to you guys know Justin Khan, Justin Con. So Sean actually sold his company to Twitch. Justin Con's one of the guys who started Twitch. Know, they sold it for a billion dollars. I I I was talking to him backstage one time, like, two years or three years after the sale. We're at, an event I was hosting. And he was like, I was like, what are you gonna do next, Justin? And he goes,
25:26
ten billion. I wanna go after ten billion. And, it didn't work didn't work out for him, by the way. It didn't work out. And, like, he I I remember I read, like, this blog post where he was, like, I was motivated to, like, out and do what I did before. Partially out of, like it was like a it was like rage, like, out of rage and out of, like, a chip on my shoulder, which is actually, I think, great fuel. But, like, was in it for the wrong motivations and and it didn't work out. But Yeah. Shilton Sean has said that I said it differently, but he said it better, which was
25:53
a, b, z, which is, like, I I like to do this all the time. I'm, like, alright. Step one is a. Step two is b. I don't need to worry about anything else in between that, but step z is, like, one day maybe
26:06
maybe one day this becomes a billion dollar company, but let's just gained to a million in revenue, or let's just focus on, like, paying the rent. And then after that, maybe we could hire a handful of people. And then I'll figure out the rest But maybe one day it could become this. And that's like a fun way to, like, that's like a fun north star to, like, help some decision making. It's also very motivational. You're like, I'm doing this for this reason to reach this many people. It's also less pressure where, you know, I and, you know, you know, I think half of that entrepreneur
26:34
spirit that I was born with from my dad. You guys, it seems like he has had the same big dude. He'd have to been the success you've reached.
26:42
You know, I never stop to smell the roses ever. It's always what's next? What are we gonna do next? And what makes this successful? And this next thing, the thing in in my sports career and even in comedy, I've never just stopped and, you know, smelled the roses. I'm constantly, constantly pushing, constantly pushing,
27:00
You know, I don't know if that leads to happier life. You know, I think sometimes in his check and go, if you're doing it's all good, man. If nothing changes,
27:09
Your life's pretty freaking great, man. If you just stayed here,
27:13
it it's all good, but I I wish I was more like that. You know, I
27:19
I don't know what else I could get that would make me happy. I guess if, you know, if I'd have to fly commercial in my life would change, that'd be great, you know, but outside that, like, things are good. Fly private? You mean, you Yeah. If I yeah. If I'm gonna have to fly commercial, I hate flying. But Well, you hey. I I see you got the nice nine elevens. You got the cool ferraris. I mean, you got the toys. Yeah. Private night a nice next step. Yep. You had told ten year old, Brandon, you know, some of the stuff you'd be doing, some of the stuff you'd have, you'd be like, holy, man, this is insane dude. Get free. You made it, but I don't feel like that. We always have us on the pod. We say, a lot of people ask, like, what advice would you give your twenty one year old self or your your your fifteen year old self? And we ask the opposite questions. Like, what would our fifteen year old self say to us now? If it could look at our life now, be like, dude, you're unhappy. Look at your shit, man. Like, are you joking? You got to barely heard. You get to do this every day. Like,
28:09
You better be smiling, bro. Like, that's what that's what my teenage self would be telling me right now.
28:14
And that's almost a good reminder. It's like, Like, I always say dogs and kids got it figured out. And, I wanna be more, like, I wanna learn more and be more, like, my dog and my kids. Because all day is play. Everything is good. They're happy. They're grateful. Like, we get we get things screwed up when we get older. And and do you guys have kids? I got two little ones.
28:33
Yeah. I've I've a seven and three year old, and
28:36
I don't think I've ever been as happy in my life as my two boys were, yes, that bottom two, about three lizards. I was like, man, if I could just that level happiness.
28:46
One time. Bearited lizards. One time,
28:49
my life is complete. Yeah. I can't give you a different perspective about things, man. You know, I might be stressed out about work, so I might come home, and that's goes out the window. You know, there's nothing better than being a dad.
29:02
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29:06
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29:16
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29:17
Tony Robbins, if if you're I don't know if you've been been to one of his events or or looked into his stuff. They're like, most people think, oh, Tony Rob's. I I don't need motivation or that's like a cult thing or whatever. I've been to a bunch of them, and I I found it really, really useful. It's it's a good don't know. I'm not very religious, so it's a good operating philosophy for life. But one of the things he says is he's like,
29:37
you got on one hand the the the sort of the the science of success. And that's kinda I think what you've kind of done done well, which is whether I'm going into football
29:47
or fighting or comedy or podcasting or now the business side,
29:52
there's the the science of success is basically like There's an approach to set, you know, figuring out a target, working hard every day, making progress, like taking it seriously, all that stuff. And then there's the art of fulfillment.
30:04
And they're unrelated.
30:05
And if you wanna have, like, the full the the complete life, you gotta figure out, oh, just like I learned the skills
30:11
of how to be successful, I gotta learn the skills of how to be fulfilled. And the the magic happens when you sort of integrate the two, can you both,
30:19
like, create new projects and try to be successful
30:22
while being fulfilled? Because what most people do is they go for that success thing, mostly from a point of view of, like,
30:29
you know, try to prove themselves. Or it's, like, let's say, yeah, some some insecurity, a lot of times, that that will it.
30:36
No. I love that. Yeah. I I think,
30:39
yeah, for me, I I do a pretty good job of me trying stop and smell roses a little bit. So I'm doing a better job. My kids helped me get there. And then I think a lot of mistakes
30:48
that people make, whether it's business, entertainment, you know, stay in a communions is, especially with social media now. That's why I'm not a big social media guy, is you can always compare yourself to somebody doing better. So For your friend that made a bill, and next thing was ten billing, because he saw a guy make ten bill. So if you're constantly chasing that, compare yourself to others,
31:07
That's where the happiness never comes. So I try not to compare myself to the others, especially me, because my journey is so different than those guys. That I look up to. So, you know, my journeys can be different, man. Whatever that looks like, and I just have to accept that, which I try to do. Sean and I
31:24
You wanna go? Yeah. I I was I was reading something yesterday that reminded me of you, Brandon, which was, I was reading a blog post. Sam put out this great tweet asking for what's the best blog post you ever read. And one of them was this thing called the the the
31:36
what was it? The physics of passion. He basically goes, there's this thing called the kool Aid point. He draws this graph. He's like, as as you do shit and people start to like your work or or admire you or love you or become a fan of you,
31:48
you'll it kinda grows steady, steady, steady. And then there's this point.
31:52
He calls it the Kool Aid point where it kinda takes off. It goes, then you're gonna have two groups of people. You're gonna a bunch of people that love you and a few people that hate you. He goes, what happens is and he goes, here's how you'll know you're there.
32:04
People accuse your fans of just drinking the kool aid. They love everything you do but sight unseen, and they're the kool aid drinkers. That's how you know. Yeah. If you have people that could be described as that, you've hit the kool aid point. Yeah. I love that. On the other side, you're gonna have people who wanna tear you down, the haters, you know, quote unquote, and, and and, you know, first, they're they're they're always a small group, but they're kinda loud. And some people even support them and be like, oh, you're you're speaking truth to power. You're you're calling it like it is. You're you're kind of exposing this person or this this brand or whatever it is. Yep. And you got both. And it so I was reading that and then when I knew we had this pod today, I was like, oh, dude. He's he's lived he's lived that point because Yeah. You know, you have for people who don't know,
32:46
You got a big fan base. You got a big anti fan base. And, the anti fan base, I think, is on on on Reddit. I go to this subreddit a bunch but I'm not, like, like, I it's weird. I like you, but I also find it funny. Like They're so clever and it's so funny. But they're also funny in the same way. Like, it's kind of this this double thing. I'm curious, like,
33:06
for you, obviously, that's, like, you know, it's probably funny for me because I'm outside of it. I'm not the person that the butt of the joke in in some of these cases. But,
33:14
you know, me and Sam got maybe one one hundredth of the, like, kind of the the passion and hate that you that you have because you've been doing this a long time. You've you've made it pretty big.
33:24
But when I read our YouTube comments and I see something like that, it stings in the moment, but also
33:30
there's a lot of times where I'm like, they're not wrong. Like,
33:33
you know,
33:34
there there is some truth to where there are they're being a dick about it. But there's some truth to what what what they're saying. I I could see that. I'm curious for you. When you when you hear about the the sort of the stuff on the subreddit or you check it out or whatever,
33:45
Do you have any moments where you're like, alright. They're kind of being mean about it or they're being to think about it, but there's some truth to what they're saying.
33:53
Yeah, I'm sure. You know, I don't in all honesty, I'd I don't pay attention to it. I think you'd it's a it's a bad thing whether you pay attention to the negativity or the positive
34:03
Yeah. I think you just gotta keep doing your thing. You know, my heroes growing up didn't live this world. You know, so it can't be healthy. I think we're fine over years. How it affects the brain, how it affects creatives and businessmen with who do pay pay attention to that stuff and read the comments and stuff like that. So I don't wanna be that sample size. I'm not gonna be, you know, trying to get that digital CTE of those comments every day. Yeah. I already have enough CTE, man. I'm about to buy my pours off the PCH, but,
34:32
I think
34:33
with the Reddit group, yeah, you it it it's interesting because
34:37
You know, the watch everything you do,
34:40
and the there's there's some things that I'm on board with. And then the only there's a small select group on there who are just evil. So there's difference between hate, which I get. I give you a lot to hate on. I do a lot of content.
34:53
I make a lot of jokes. I offend a lot of people.
34:56
I get that. You don't get to a certain level without giving a lot of haters. You just don't. If you look at Logan Paul, Drake, LeBron James, name some the massive celebrities that we have in this world, there, and you go online, you read their comments, or to my buddy, Joe rogan. Nobody no. I don't know. Everybody gets more hate than that guy, but he gets more in love. I'm in the business of likability.
35:17
So if you watch my podcast, you buy a ticket to my stand up, you buy the merge, you buy the whiskey,
35:23
You're a fan. I make a living off likability.
35:26
So I just don't I don't give the hate energy. As far as the ready goes, I get it. And some of them are really funny, and I appreciate those guys, whether it's good or bad towards me.
35:38
It gets a little dicey when they they wanna I just I don't understand when they when they cross the line, when it gets into my personal lines. Right. It's like, I'm not Tom Cruise, dude. Why the fuck? He give us the who cares about that stuff. You know, and thank god. My wife, she's been with me since I was in the UFC. So when you're fighting UFC, you get a lot of love, you get a lot of hate. There's no in between if you're doing it right. So she's conditioned to that. She doesn't pay attention to it. She doesn't care, you know, at this point. So thank god for that. But The only time I don't like is when they make it super personal. It's about the kids. It's about, you know, certain things, but, you know, nobody's harder,
36:14
on on
36:15
on me than myself. You know, there's nothing they can say that I don't tell myself, usually on a daily basis. So trust me, it's way worse whatever they're putting out. So Although I, you know, I get it. I appreciate it. And, you know, I just don't give it energy. But I think one of the things that I
36:31
have going for me is, you know, I post and ghost. I don't pay attention to that stuff, but then I'm also, you know, I'm on the road, whatever it is. Thirty weekends a year. Yo, if I I get done in the interview, I'd really get coffee. I can't go down the street without somebody ten. Hey, Brandon. Love you, man. So to that's real. That's what I care about. Social media, it's a factor for sure,
36:52
but it's not the end all be all. I think when people realize that that one in if you're walking down the street, one in ten people on social media, especially on Twitter, that you can't give all your self value, your self worth of what social media is. You're gonna live a much happier life. So
37:09
that Reddit group, they're gonna do their thing, you know, and that comes with a territory. And I was built for it. That's why god give me big shoulders, but
37:18
You know, I they're gonna click that. They're gonna love that one.
37:22
Yeah. I I think I was built for it. And then also you look you know, if you look at me, I know, you know, I probably look like the guy that bores you in high school. And, you know, they'll use some of that. You know, like, oh, Brendan's a bully or whatever. And I know I look like the guy, but If they actually knew, you know, these people know me, they never met me. You know, they're not buying tickets to a show, so I don't give it energy because
37:42
if I did, I wouldn't have a business. I wouldn't have house that I'm talking to you guys in right now. So,
37:48
you know, I think
37:50
it it it get the lines get blurred where it's like, oh, he's a big strong guy. He's fighting if he he can handle this. We there's no limits. Everything's
37:57
on off limits. He he there's nothing off limits. We can go as hard as we want them. It's like, it actually hurts my silence, man. It's actually not cool, you know, but I jokes, I'm all four. I'm all four, man. Professional comments. We roast each other. We do our thing. So if it's funny, it's witty, fire away. But when you start going towards the when once you start going towards the personal side, well, then you've crossed the boundary, you know? And now, also, if you wanna have this conversation person you wanna send me, we can do that.
38:26
I can do that. We can then see how it goes for you. But that's never happened. As long as I've been in entertainment, I've never run into anybody that said something to my face. So I just I get what they're doing if funny. It's waiting. They're gonna do their thing. I actually appreciate it. But when you cross the boundary,
38:42
and you do you disrespect me a different way?
38:45
You know, that that's where I have an issue with it. When I say an issue with it, it means that it hurts my feelings. I'm not gonna do nothing to you. I'm not gonna beat I'm not the bully you expect me to be. That also I think that that subreddit has crossed the point, not all of them. Some of them, actually just funny and their fans and They just show it in a different way and understand that at my age. But, you know, a lot of them have crossed that boundary where, you know, they hide behind this keyboard and They wanna do evil things, which I just I don't understand.
39:14
That's to me, it's like and for what?
39:17
For what? Because I do stand up? You don't have to buy a ticket
39:21
because I do free podcasts that triggers you. Right. We don't have to watch. You know, so I just I'm just cut from a different cloth. I I'm just a positive person.
39:31
Now there's some podcasters
39:33
that will lean into it and If there's beef between comics, the the lean into that, and they like that that controversy in that drum all the time, like it's real housewives of LA,
39:43
And I would probably be much more famous and much further along my career if I entertain that. I just can't do it. Sometimes I think, man, I should try that. It's just not what I do. I don't like being negative, own positive person. I enjoy helping people out. So, you know, it's just Heavy license crown with that stuff, man. You were you were saying how when you moved down one? Rant. I apologize.
40:05
No. It's good. Where there are whole you know, someone's gotta clip that. Some hater will clip that. Hopefully, but somehow, hopefully, that hate pushes us us forward somehow.
40:13
But you were talking about moving to LA and how that was, like, a big change.
40:17
You basically, like, Sean and I both lived in San Francisco started internet companies. And, like, having a crew, we were in each other's crew. We had a handful of others where you, like, succeed together. That's, like, the greatest thing ever because it's, like, it's it's, a, it's fun. And, b, it's actually useful. Like, you you piggyback off each other and you and you motivate one another and you actually, like, you invest in each other, whatever. It's like practical.
40:38
You're in this cool world. It's like, you, Bobby Lee, Theovaughn, Kristalia,
40:43
Andrew Santino.
40:44
Andrew Schultz is a little bit side of that, but somewhat inside of that, Joe Rosen.
40:49
Yeah. You got this, like, crew. And, like, it doesn't, like, ten years ago, You know, there was rogan, but there weren't really, like, a lot of, like, comedy YouTube channels, like, or podcasts.
40:59
But right now, like, if I go on my YouTube app, like, it's basically, like, a Theo Von or Brendan Shop clip, like, constantly or, like, the the clip of Bobby Lee taught tell the story about,
41:10
the down syndrome thing. Viral clip in, comedy podcast history that was hilarious.
41:15
Yes. It's so funny where he talks about getting molested by a down syndrome guy. It's one of the funniest. I mean, it and so, like, I can't go on without seeing, like, funniest bits from whatever, like, and it's like someone in your crew What's that like behind the scenes? Like, are you guys, is this like a, like, Sean and I sometimes when we wanna get, like, popular on x, y, and z, we're like, hey, can you like this Can you share this? Yep. Or, hey, do you wanna come on my thing? You come like, it's, like, it's it's somewhat organized, somewhat Or or just sharing, like, it's sharing being like, yo, I'm doing this and it's working. Like,
41:46
yes. You know, what's that like? You know what? You have, like, a group text when you're, like, hey, Theo. Like, I've found that, like, this type of, like, you guys and then by the way, I don't know if we told you this. If you go and look at when we first started MFM, my first million, we just bought the same fucking red Sopha lounge chairs that you have because Oh, I love it. Because I would see those on the I would see those on the thumbnail, and I'm like, all that red pops. Like, you make it makes you wanna click it. And I noticed that you and Theo, particularly you, I bet you probably started it. You have these, like, pretty eye catching studios. They're they're not, like, particularly fancy, but they're just, like, they're just, like, an eye catching and you're changing them constantly. And I'm sure this Theo does the same thing. He's constantly changing the the set. Same Andrew Schultz, are you guys, like, sharing all these tactics? Like,
42:31
when we're doing this, it's working or, like, here's how much we're paying for blank or, like, you guys, let's pump each other around this thing. Yeah. You know, going back to kind of the, the whole, like, kind of it's it was almost like team, you know, and I, you know, the team captain, all this starts from Joe rogan. So before I hit the cops But he doesn't give a shit about any of that, does he? He just does whatever the fuck he wants in sometimes it works. He does whatever he wants, and he's the leader of the pack, but
42:56
she's also the reason why we embrace each other. And, you know, five, six years ago, seven years ago at the comedy store is the comedy wrap pack. And we were the we were the rat pack. And we were the guys and every show sold out. Our name's on the Marquis
43:11
and rogan. There was a there was kind of,
43:15
you know, their structure. Like, we don't tear each other down. We support each other.
43:20
And I heard Isaiah Thomas say this when he went on,
43:23
my boys podcast, all the schloke with Matt Barnes.
43:27
And,
43:28
Isaiah Kama said this and it really resonated with me. He was on there, He's talking about Michael Jordan.
43:33
And he goes,
43:35
clearly, I'm not a black man. I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I'm not black. But It's actually not that clear, by the way. You could be. You could be. Lie up, dude. Yeah. If you told me you had a little in you, it wouldn't be suppressed. It's not that clear, actually.
43:49
Earlier when you said, Denver or Buffalo Bills didn't want slow white guys. I was like, yeah. So you're in. Yes. So you made the tea. Right? Yeah. Wait. And tell me you're not there in Fernandez? No. But,
44:02
oh,
44:03
so,
44:04
we're with Sykes. Oh, So, weird, this company rat pack No. No. You're saying Isaiah Thomas sent something. Yeah. Isaiah Thomas. Yeah. So Isaiah Thomas said this in I saw a clip that map Barn's post, and I love those guys. I started with them at showtime when they're crushing it. But Isaiah Thomas, they brought up Michael Jordan, and Isaiah Thomas has issues with Michael Jordan. And, Matt Barnes, we'd love to have him on. And, Isaiah is, like, that's a tough one. He doesn't do interviews. Then Isaiah said, As alumni from the NBA,
44:31
as as alumni, and you guys are alumni, we're this tight fraternity.
44:34
And not only are we a tight fraternity that we've reached certain levels of the NBA in this in, you know, in this lane that we're in, but also black men, and it is our duty to support each other. Is our duty to come on the shows and make sure you guys get views, make sure people get your name out there. That that is something that as we it's our responsibility
44:55
being in this small group, in the small club.
44:59
And back in probably seven years ago, You know, rogan, it was the same thing. It is your it is your duty to come on other shows
45:07
to broaden the audience to bring everybody into these great talents, you know, whether it's, you know, back in the day, finding the kid, outside Joe rogan, finding kid the launching pad. If he goes through it, you look at Tim Dylan, and you look at Andrew Schultz, Centino,
45:21
Theo von, Crystal. You look at all the people that came on there and just exploded.
45:27
Now is it because it the Fine kid audience? Maybe helped the littles because those guys are so goddamn talented.
45:34
And once people saw who they were, they out succeeded finding the kid. They've got on they've blown the roof off things now. But if you look back, I'm finally kidding, I take so much pride in joining that where we have these guys on before they are massive.
45:48
And as Isaiah Thomas says, it is our duty to do that. So that resonated with me. Now this is seven, eight years ago.
45:56
Even ten years ago, when I first started out, we'd have all these comments on stuff like that. And then the pandemic hits.
46:04
The the pandemic kits
46:06
and the leader
46:08
of the wrap pack leaves, Joe Rogen leaves. And the comedy store shuts down, Tommy LA shuts down, then Kamseger leaves, then Joey Diaz Lee's, then Tim Dylan, leaves, then Piell von leaves. And then,
46:21
Brian goes through some bullshit Me too movement, and he has to leave. And Kristalia goes some through some bullshit Me too movie. Kristalia has to leave. And I'm on this island by myself.
46:33
Like, whoa, where's your buddy? I thought let's alright. The troops, although we're not in LA, we gotta rally.
46:40
Let's rally around each other. And it broke my heart, man. It broke my that no. Those days are over, dude. You gotta figure it out on your own. Those days are over. The days of you know, being in the in in the hallways at the common store and the improv and the ice house and laugh factories
46:57
were, you know, hey, podcast tomorrow, yeah, podcast tomorrow. Those days are gone.
47:01
Everyone's
47:02
they've made it. Everyone's in their lane. You gotta figure it out on your own now.
47:07
It's weird because,
47:08
you know, I was at the comedy store last night.
47:11
And I just have this, it takes me a while. I sit in the parking lot for a while because it just kinda reminds me when I pull up now that I used to pull up and rogan pull up in this portion. We parked next to each other and talked shop about the cars and what's next, and then Santino would pull up and We talked to him with Chris De Leah, and then Brian would pull up and Bobby Lee and CEO, and we'd be in there and there was a college?
47:34
It was the best. It was it was absolute best. And I wish
47:38
five, six, seven years ago somebody would have tapped us. I was showing like, hey fellas.
47:42
In two years, this is all god.
47:44
You I didn't realize at the moment that that was
47:47
the golden age and what we were doing was so special. We took it for granted.
47:52
And I I didn't realize at the time how special it was in in my in my theater
47:56
where my fish tank are, and it like, my man cave, I've I've four pictures from those days. When I just put them up, right, you know, when they were done, five, six, seven years ago, I didn't realize that in that picture, in that frozen
48:10
moment,
48:11
that was the best time ever for for me as far as, just being in
48:17
that symbiotic, like, team. It was such a team med. Yeah. There's a special moment. You know, now we're all everyone's doing well. We still talk. We have our group chats, but as far as, like, you know, seeing each other all the time. Like, those days are over, man. And it it's heartbreaking.
48:32
Yeah. It's it's important to have one of those, like, pay it forward cultures because it's like, that I think Silicon Valley has that too which which is there's not really that much gatekeeping. You can go to the most successful richest guide Silicon Valley He'll give you time. It doesn't matter who you are.
48:47
And if you need a favor, they'll give you a favor with they'll they'll give you either advice or money or an intro. And there's no, like, pay it back. It's all pay it forward because they got helped by the person before them. And correctly, that stayed
48:59
together now. You like you said, with the pandemic, a bunch of people moved out of Silicon Valley. So who knows what will happen It takes a little longer in our world to to sort of see those effects.
49:07
But I remember when I was in San Francisco, living in San Francisco, kind of on the come up, me and Sam doing one of these, like, founder masterminds where we would get dinner for hours and talk, like, okay. What are you doing? How's that going? What am I doing? How's that going? How can we help each other out? And it felt like,
49:22
you know, in toy story, when when they go to that arcade
49:26
and those little the little minions are are in the machine. And it's like, The claw.
49:31
And the clock selects one and takes it away. And that's like, you you know, they made it. They they got the fame, the fortune. They got picked, but the other minions weren't pulling them down. They were like pushing them up. Like, congrats brother. Go for it. You know, like, you know, you you made it out And because it's like that in Silicon Valley. You'll know somebody, and they're broke for the four years, you know them. And then they're worth a hundred fifty million dollars overnight.
49:53
And then you're like, yeah. The claw picked you and you won. Yeah. The call god. Yeah. The claw which Mark Zuckerberg buying your company happened.
50:01
And, like, it's same thing in entertainment.
50:03
Someone hits a breakout point And now they're famous. They're, you know, they made it. And there's a question of, like, does it do you just get left in the dust? Do you resent people when they're happening, or do you you realize that the rising tide lifts all boats. And you really wanna be in that rising tide type of Yeah. And and just a side note in San Francisco. Now pay it forward. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Worry about getting stabbed out there.
50:25
Forget starting to nap. Well, your friends watch your back. Literally, like,
50:30
you got you gotta watches on the back physically.
50:33
Just survive the day, you know. Green afford is carrying a gun so your buddy didn't get stabbed in the neck. Yeah. It's insane. Oh, I was gonna ask a a slightly different question, but you I saw a few interviews that were cool. One, it was Donald Caboy Saroney, and then Charles Sonon. And I think, actually, Michael Bizbings said the same thing where they were talking about, like, in the locker room before they fight. And they're, like, I think it was chale. He's like, people think that, like, we're tough guys and, like, oh, maybe we we kind of are, but, like, every single time before a fight, I think
51:06
my last one should have been my last one. What am I doing? I hate this. And then, like, Michael Bizbing, who's, like, a cocky dude and, like, is very confident. He was like, this is the worst thing ever. And I think cowboy Sarone was like, I throw up before every fight. I'm so afraid. And then you had a really cool thing where you're like, I just beat up, Crow cop. So if you don't listen, if you don't know anything about UFC Crow cop is, like, one of the the the goats of MMA, and he's scary as shit. Like, he's like, croatian dude, but, like, you think he's, like, a scary Russian robocop type of guy. Yeah. And you knocked him out. And I remember, like, you said, you're like, I knocked him out and backstage. I went said, like, thank you or something or, like, you know, like, good fight. And he, like, had ice on his head, and you're like, what the fuck am I doing? I don't wanna, like, do this for my life. I don't wanna be forty or thirty eight or however old he was when you when you beat him up. But, what's that like backstage?
51:55
The fifteen, thirty minutes before you're about to go fight to the death in your underwear in front of a million people. Yeah. I think
52:03
I don't I don't know if I was the I might have been the one of the first fighters ever say that, you know, but a lot of guys, they wanna give off the persona that
52:11
Oh, were these warriors? It's like gladiator. We we can't wait to get out there, but
52:16
I'm telling you so and I won't mention names. I've seen dude cry backstage. They don't wanna go out there. I've seen their coaches slap them. Like, dude, you have to go out there. It's just
52:24
I I just don't think it's natural. You know, I think it's a level of intelligence of your body and your mind going, hey, you're about to get hurt. Do not go out there. So the anxiety's through the roof, and Every file, I was like, what am I doing, man? I was like, so disappointed myself. And then once I hit the cage,
52:41
for most of my career, I was okay,
52:43
I knew it was time to get out when I hit the cage and my, dude,
52:47
don't get hurt. Get out of here. You got so much more to do in this life. You cannot, you know, suffer a concussion. We have got to figure this out. So,
52:56
you know, I think there's truth and honesty for most fighters where it's like,
53:00
It's terrifying.
53:01
If, to me, it was the worst gig in the world. There's some the highs are the highest in the world. The the peaks are the best. The valleys are the low there can be in professional sports or maybe in life, it's a tough gay man. You know, so I think the more fighters talk about, like, hey, we're hoot human man. And and and it is scary going out there. And I think the more fires talk about it, the more people can relate to it. Because most people, if you have a man, if if
53:25
tonight or today after this, the podcast, you go to the coffee shops, and you're getting your coffee and some guy goes, you have some altercation. The guy goes, hey, man, tomorrow at one PM. You and I fighting.
53:35
You're like, oh, I guess we gotta fight. Imagine the anxiety you're gonna have that night,
53:40
that morning, walk in that coffee shop, and that's fighting
53:44
Billy, you know, from in San Francisco
53:46
who's get, you know, and fight you over coffee. And he probably don't have skills. Now heighten that times a thousand,
53:52
not only do you know exactly when you're gonna get a fist to cuff, but the guy happens to be, I don't know, top ten in the world at beating people up in your underwear, and everybody's gonna see it. You know what I'm saying? It's human nature. I'd be like, this is not healthy.
54:06
Dude, we've been we this do this podcasting to our friends. It's been cool to, like, some of our friends become worth hundreds of millions or even billion dollars. And it's cool because we'll talk to them, like, just hang it out, and they'll be like, I have to fire this person, and I'm so afraid to do it. Like, I that I haven't done it in, like, eight months. Like, I'm afraid of the confrontation. And what that does is it, like, normalizes
54:26
fear, and you're like, oh, therefore, I can do it. And I remember, like, thinking about, like, Habib. And, like, through this guy is, like, terminator. Like, he doesn't show that much fear And then I saw some of these other tough guys, like, say, like, oh, no. Like, it's it's miserable. I've always wanted, like, a Connor or a Habib, like, some of the the the most outspoken, confident guys, I, like, I wanna hear them say, like, I'm about to piss my pants because whenever I hear that, I'm, like, that's fucking gold. I could do any thing. If this guy's afraid if this guy's afraid, which I know they are, even if they don't say it. I know they are. I think there are levels to, like, it does seem like there are some guys, like, a Habib or something like that where they're, like,
55:02
They're more stoic than others, but there is, like, there's always self doubt. And I think it's really cool when I see some of these killers, like, actually say that. It it gives me, like, it oddly gives me hope. Yeah. I think it makes them human. I, you know, I think it would do athletes just
55:17
so much more in the public eye if You know, if before the Superwall or even after the Super Bowl, be like, I'm scared shit, listen, that defense was good. You know, I'm I'm terrified to get hit and throw interceptions and fail. I just think more people would relate to it. Just Would you ever would there ever any athletes that you know of or hung out with MMA guys or boxers? Where they were built different where they're, like, this person's looking forward to a fight. Or do you think unilaterally it was? No. There there's there's people where, you know, ignorance is bliss. Right? You know? It's like, there there's guys I trained with, and
55:51
I I'd be able two weeks out from the fight you know, and the camp's tailoring down, I'm like, god, man. The fight's in two weeks, man, Saturday. The guy's like, I know. Excited. Right? I'm like, no, dude. This is terrible.
56:03
But Dade's just there's certain dies where they live for it. You know, there's guys like the the Diaz brothers, even though they've said that they hate fighting, I think there's some guy, like, a King Vasquez.
56:13
There's certain guys that just thrive in that are just engaged in who they just
56:17
They just love the violence. They just there's nothing. They were just born warriors, you know, and they're not thinking about businesses or, you know,
56:26
ten years down the road or fifteen years down the road. It's just they were meant to do this. And god bless them. You need people like that. God bless them. Even if you're not into UFC, if you're listening to this, go and look up Justin Gaagey post fight Michael Chandler on YouTube. He said this amazing thing. He goes,
56:42
I was born in the wrong era. I should have been a gladiator so I could kill this person in front of all of you because that's what I'm built to do, and that's what I love. I'm here to fight to the death. And I heard that. And I'm like,
56:55
there's there's two different types of humans. I'm one, and he's the other.
56:59
Yeah. It's just crazy. True. And I think,
57:02
you know, I I think for me, it came to a realization because I've known Justin Gaetz since she was in college. I used to go up to University of Northern Colorado and West to get ready for my USC fight. So I saw just at a young age. He's always been like that. And, again, when I would be in the locked rooms or we'd be in the training camps, then those guys would talk like that.
57:20
You know, don't get me wrong. I'm built like a warrior. Like, you would look at me. I think that's one of the reasons I get hate from these guys. They don't think it's okay eat me the way that I that they do because, you know, I look like a gladiator. I'm this big dude with tattoos and cauliflower ears, but really pushed him to shove
57:36
I'm the guy behind going,
57:40
they're like, what the feel? Like, I don't wanna be in the front fucking lines, man. That's not what I wanna do. You know? So I mean, so I get the treatment of these warriors, but really I'm the guy in the back playing the trombone holding the flag, you know. Making sure I look good. One of our Sean and I talked about this after Rose Nami Unis, this, UFC fighter. She, liked
58:04
before the fight you see or saying, I'm the best. I'm the best. I'm the best. And it doesn't matter if you like, you have seen or not. It makes you cry because you're just like, There's so much, like, you have to talk yourself up to this. It is just so, like, motivational inspiring, cute. I don't know what you wanna call it, but it's awesome. It's like one of my favorite moments of seeing her say that. And then afterwards, Joe goes I saw you saying you're the best. What's up with that? And she goes, because I am the best.
58:27
And you, like, you, like, you're convincing herself. Yeah. That she's the best, like, so good. So much self doubt. And he's just like, no. You're the best. And because and I'm assuming she worked with a mental coach, which I did too when I was fighting, and worked with these high level mental coach they tell you that. You fight the negative thought in your head with a positive. You say it out loud. So that's just her
58:46
freaking trying to keep the the demons at the door. Good. I'm the best. I'm the best. You know what I love about this podcast?
58:53
It's usually when people bring up fighting
58:55
for me, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare.
58:58
Like, especially if I if I'm doing a a show outside, like, whether it's a comedy central, if it's a TV show, they talk fighting.
59:06
Usually, they have no clue about UFC. Like, even you brought up Rose, you brought up Justin Gaechee and the Michael Chandler stuff. Like, thank god. You guys have an insight into the UFC, like, current UFC world. I'll do some shows and be like, so what's your take on truck, Ladell? For and take Abbott. I think that's still gonna happen.
59:25
Like, dude, they have Alzheimer's band. They're not having it anymore. Well, how is Conrad MacGregor doing?
59:34
Oh, man. We're super fans. That's why, that's why it's cool to hang out with you. We've had we've talked I've talked to Michael Bizbee, been grand. We've had Ariel Hawaiani on. Your boy. I know you guys had a you guys had a spat.
59:44
We've had, who else, a bunch of people in that world. It it it's always fun to talk to you guys because, Even though, like, the intensity level that you're doing, it's, like, literally life and death, starting a business is, like, a percentage of that, but it's, like, I can't do this. I'm freaking out. I don't know how to do this. Like, you constantly feel like inferior. Oh, there's similarities with all of it. With all of it, whether your UFC fighter or your entrepreneur, there's similarities where you bake on yourself. It's on you, and the peaks of valleys are insane. Either way, so there's takeaways from both sides. You know, there's they definitely overlap. You know, you mentioned Arrowawani.
01:00:17
Right? And I there's that and I think it's a a fan thing. You know, I've had spats with Over the years, it's just gonna happen. I don't really entertain it. But I have no animosity towards aerials. You'd all do interviews whether
01:00:29
whatever it is in a row. So you and data don't like each other. No. I've I've no I I I don't dislike anybody. You know, I I think that might be one of the reasons too why The haters,
01:00:40
they can't stand it because
01:00:42
they they want that. They want that drama. They want some to feed of. They call it feeding the trolls. I just don't entertain that. I think that is, you know, upsets them. It's just not what I do. So when Aaron and I were having our thing, man, I I made a mistake. I was on the fight campaign. I said some things I shouldn't have said. He was rightfully so to get upset. So he wanna show and did his thing. All good, man. That's how it goes. You know, I take accountability there. That's on me, but the hero's the best journalists we have. I listen to a show. You know, I have no issues with ariel. With Dana,
01:01:12
man, I if anything, I probably should be giving Dana ten percent because when he made that deal with reebok,
01:01:18
it, you know,
01:01:20
At the time, I was a young man. At the time, I took it personal. I thought it was a hit of, against me. And it put a chip. I mean, when I say chip out of the entire Pringles in my storage.
01:01:31
And what you're talking about is,
01:01:33
before you could put any logo you want, then you made a deal with rebox, and it's just they are the guys. Yeah. I lost three hundred thousand dollars a fight. And, you know, and I took it personal. But being a business owner now,
01:01:45
Dana wasn't make when the reebok deal came in, man, how's this gonna affect Brandon Shaw? No, dude. I'm one of the, you know, I'm one of the elephants in the circus. You gotta do what's great for all the elephants, not just me. So I was, you know, a by standard and the casualty of that deal just didn't work out in my favor, but that pushed me faster into what I was supposed to be doing. So, Damien actually helped me out. I have zero suit, Dana. Huge fan. Huge fan. But I think fans,
01:02:11
some people, for the reason, They can't get over that. It's like, well, no. He screwed you over and look, and you have to retire and he did this. I'm like, no. He did me a favor, guys. That was twelve years ago.
01:02:22
It's all good. He's doing great. He wants more money than god. I'm doing pretty good.
01:02:27
At zero. If he called me today, I was like, hey, man. We need you to do this. No doubt. I'll help you out. No problem.
01:02:34
Well, did you, the man? You,
01:02:36
I said earlier that we had Rob on, and he Like, I knew Rob growing up as a skater, and then he came on and he, like, just surprised us so much. I think his v his video has,
01:02:45
hundreds of thousands of views that when we did with him, which is good for us. And,
01:02:50
you're kinda in that category where you're, where I'm, like, I had good expectations.
01:02:54
Because I listened to you a lot, but you're a lot more insightful than I thought and I thought you were pretty insightful and and you're
01:03:01
You're just a good guess. Maybe next time you'll have a better, set up instead of just being on your iPhone.
01:03:08
So here here here's the thing about that. So I don't own a computer. My company, like, Figboy Network has whatever, twelve, fifteen computers.
01:03:17
I'm I'm like the anti,
01:03:20
I'm the anti kind of technology guy. I don't like That seems that seems good for, Internet company owner. I know. Right?
01:03:28
Mark. Yeah. Can you tell me to fail by next year? No. So,
01:03:32
yeah, we did the same with,
01:03:34
there's a guy Mark Lohrey who bought the Timber wolves. He he he's a, like, famous entrepreneur. He's a billionaire, and he came on. He was doing the same thing. He's like, is this good, guys? He put his iPhone on a share on top of his dining table. Million it or dude. And he stood up and he's talked. And we were like, do you can you use your computer?
01:03:50
I don't I don't know the computer.
01:03:51
And we were like, it hits different when a billionaire says it. It's like and, you know, if somebody else says it, you're just like, man, we'll shmuck. And then you hear him say, you're like, guy knows what's this guy knows how to live. I got it. He's not bogged down, but he's fucking computer. He says because, like, he's got a person. You know, he's got people. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't have computers, but I have humans. Yeah. No. I I owe you guys. Next time we do this, I'll do an athlete voice studios. Usually, every Wednesday, I'm in studio, but today
01:04:17
because,
01:04:18
yesterday, I did three podcasts in a row that a two hour meeting for this new project I'm doing. So I started at seven thirty AM. And then by the time I got done with that meeting, I was I was home around five, when I bought my kid's lizards,
01:04:32
put fed them dinner, went put them to bed, then rushed over the commie store. And I got home at twelve thirty last night. So today is my first off day. I don't know how long. And then tomorrow I'm on tour in Atlanta, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday, and Atlanta doing shows. So usually, I'm always in studio, and I have the team set So it looks professional. So I owe you guys. I owe you guys, but talk to me.
01:04:52
I hate electric cars. I think they're a disaster. I don't like electric cars. I don't like iPhones. I'm about to switch to flip phone. I just I don't I just don't subscribe to it, man. I don't think it's healthy. Let's add a couple zeros to your net worth we'll call it cool, but until then, we're gonna call it. Look like a tool. You're a fucking caveman. You're a caveman,
01:05:11
but, like,
01:05:13
Maybe
01:05:13
maybe maybe decide, let's add a few zeros and we'll call you a a genius. But until then, you're you're a Neanderthal.
01:05:19
Yeah. Yeah. Until then, I'm just this broke guy doing it on a iPhone cell.
01:05:24
Well, dude, thank you for doing this. You're amazing, and we and we we appreciate it. Pleasure coming on. Yeah. Besides my setup, this got sad fast at the end.
01:05:33
Alright. That's the episode.
00:00 01:05:56