Encarta | Sharing Our Best Crypto Business Ideas To Start In 2022

00:00

Why does everyone hate on getting rich quick? Get rich quick schemes are the best.

00:05

I wanna get rich quick. I don't wanna get rich slow.

00:16

It's actually colder here than the Arctic Circle.

00:23

Wow. Why do you live there?

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Well, I mostly live in Miami.

00:27

IRS if you're listening to this.

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But I'm sometimes

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in a mountain town,

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in the middle of nowhere,

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Sam, I saw you posted today

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that you've got about twenty acres in Texas, but I'm staring out at ninety five

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acres

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of arctic winter winter land right now. Is that cool or no? I mean, I love I love it out here. I'm from I'm from here. So for me, it's

00:55

it's it's slow living. It's nice.

00:59

Yeah, I love it. Is that why you look like a pilot right now? In the cockpit or what? What's going on here?

01:07

I mean,

01:08

Sal Hill makes Sal Blue my coast on my on on the where it happens pod.

01:13

We we do it together. And he always makes fun of this, but I'm a I'm a gamer. So I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to admit it. Be who you are, man. Be who you are.

01:24

Greg, so you're here

01:26

because I don't even know why. You were taught we weren't even don't even know what we were saying. We were talking about the Will Smith thing.

01:32

You had some hot takes. Sam had some hot takes.

01:35

How can we start with anything else? But the bitch slap of the century,

01:39

Will Smith, bitch slaps Chris rock for making fun of his wife. We

01:44

I think we have a different on each one of these things. Sam, give me your first, where were you when it happened? How did you hear about it? What was your first take? I was laying in bed and I hear Sarah goes Oh, my gosh. You gotta come down and watch this. This is crazy. And I saw it. And

02:00

here's the thing. Are you the type, by the way? Do you just go, or do you wait you ask, what is it? No. I go right away. I can just go. Alright. That's like a good guy right there. So here's the thing. Listen,

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I tweeted about this right away. People are like, well, what would you do? The truth is maybe the same thing. I maybe would do the same thing, but

02:20

that's wrong. And if I would have ran up there and bitch slap Chris rock, I would have been tackled and taken away. And he should too. That's what should have happened.

02:29

I wanted to see him tackle to take it away or at least

02:33

not allowed to be on stage for five minutes to an accepted award. That is ridiculous to me. I could not believe that happened.

02:41

Greg, give me your where were you? What was your initial reaction?

02:46

02:48

my girlfriend texts me, and she's like, you're not gonna believe what just happened. Will Smith. It just slapped Chris Rock. And then she's like, wait. I don't know if it was a slap. Maybe it was a punch. And so there was this confusion. There was this, like, in a confusion where people didn't know what it was.

03:03

So first place I go to is on Twitter. I'm on Twitter,

03:07

and I I I looked at the video and I was like, I I couldn't believe it was happening. Right? It was like, you remember when,

03:14

Janet Jackson with the whole Super Bowl thing? Yeah. Like, I feel like I remember what hap where I was with nine eleven. I remember what happens when the Janet Jackson boob incident of the Super Bowl. It's like I'm like, o j and then Mitchell Smith. Yeah. Now Will Smith.

03:29

So I

03:30

wasn't happy with the videos that were coming out,

03:34

But I found the Japanese and Australian videos. Did you guys see those? For sure. The uncensored uncut versions?

03:42

Yeah.

03:43

Yeah. And and that one where,

03:46

you got a better view of the punch.

03:49

You know, I needed a better view. It was a it was a slap, though. I don't know how good your view was. It was a slap.

03:54

It was a yeah. Okay. It was a slap.

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But what bugged me about the whole thing, and I and I'm glad you invited me to talk about Will Smith because, you know, that's why I'm here.

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04:05

I think that okay. Obviously,

04:08

it was a douchey thing of Will Smith to do. But I

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was

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Unimpressed

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with how Chris Rock

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wasn't able to make a joke of the whole thing, and he could have made comedic history and he didn't.

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And

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I expected more from him. Wow. Disapointed with Chris Rock. That is not the tank. I thought was gonna come. That's why we bring Greg on for The when everybody ziggs use Zag with the new take, it disappointed with the new Dude rock,

04:37

crazy impressive. He took it, man. He t handled.

04:40

He he took it. He did tear up. He did, like, when you get punched in the face, sometimes, you're not, like, crying, but your eyes water. None of that happened. He kept smiling. And he was a pro male. Sam, you know what happens. If you get hit in the side of the head, what's the first thing that you feel right here?

04:56

You you your ears hurt and you wanna, like, grab your face. You you hear this ringing buzz and, like, the sound. You hear this just giant ringing, and then you gotta touch your face. He didn't touch his face. So that

05:08

You you gotta give him respect for the chin that he showed. Yeah. The round that was a ten nine Chris rock round. But then Greg's right actually

05:17

He had I mean, the world was his oyster

05:19

with all the potential jokes that he could have gone with of the one liners. Like, If he can't believe can't believe they had you an Ali or something like that.

05:28

Exactly.

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You know, I don't even know what the joke should have been. Know, Greg, what what what direction would you have gone with the joke?

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I would have said.

05:37

And the winner to the biggest

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bitch slap award twenty twenty two goes to William Smith.

05:47

Yeah. Exactly. Couldn't have given him the Oscar for bitch slap of the year. But honestly,

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what would your take though?

05:53

Okay. So I'm I'm outside of a cold stone. Just gave my daughter some ice cream.

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Trying to get back to the car. I don't know if you know how it is. Getting kids in the cars, like,

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that's the battle every day. That's that's the battle. In fact, there's a great Louis c k joke where he's like,

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The greatest moment of any father's day is the, like, thirty seconds from when you close the door and you have them in the car seat and you walk around the car back to the driver's car seat. It's like the thirty seconds of peace that you have in that moment. That's everything.

06:20

So I'm trying to get in the car and my wife has stopped. She's stunned. She's doing the, like, oh my god face looking at her phone almost to it was like a cartoon character. And I was like, what? It can't, like, whatever it is, it can't be can't be much. And then she was like, no. Will Smith just punched Chris Rock. I was like, what?

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And so then I watched the video.

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She made me pull over. We were driving. I pulled over to watch the the Japanese uncensored version because we just had to, like, debrief it in the moment.

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And,

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I was team Will Smith. I thought it was awesome. Frankly, the only part that I thought was not cool.

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The only part I thought was not cool was that when they first said the joke, he's laughing at the joke.

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So bro, you can't laugh at the joke, admit that it's funny, and then basically two seconds later,

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build up this rage and then pretend it was so,

07:09

not cool when it was you were laughing. Like, we got you on camera laughing. Two things before that. You don't think that he should have any consequences?

07:16

No. No. I didn't say that. He should have consequences. Okay. Sure. Lock him up. Away the key. Whatever you gotta do. No. No. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. I'm not I don't even watch I don't want handcuffs. I don't want jail. Just like Hey, Will. You can't hit someone. You gotta leave. Like, that would have been that would have been sufficient. Well, the thing they showed, in the in the, I don't know, the Taiwanese

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cut. They had the the commercial break. I don't know if you guys saw this. Somebody comes running up to him. I think, oh, wow. They're gonna be like, dude. What the fuck? Wouldn't get get you out of here. Sorry. It's his publicist. Just immediately giving him notes on how to play this. And so when he goes up for his speech. What do you know? The first line he says is, you know, Richard Williams was a fierce, like, protector of his family.

07:59

That's the publicist handing him defeating him the line of how how are you gonna spin this to your advantage? Who hates a guy who protects his family? Did I think It worked. The I watched his speech.

08:10

I think he's losing it. So in a in a way, I feel sorry for him. I I definitely feel a little sorry. He looked a little off. Right? He looked a little off. He looked like he's kinda he's getting a little little something going on. And I hope he could I hope he works through it and gets back. And also, there through inhibitor's wife, man, that's some weird stuff. Like, what's going on? Like, Had, did you see that thing called red table that her show where she just, like, did a whole show with him on there talking about how she cheated on him and everything like that? And then she went to the whole show with you. But I watch everything that's trashy like that. So, yeah, I saw it. I saw it twice. Man. So, like, that's weird to me a little bit. So, there's like a butt this dynamic is was weird. He's got a lot of pressure on him. I think he just kinda snapped. I think he's working through some stuff. But, dude, but so I feel a little sad form. Everybody knows a couple that's like this where they're, like, kinda toxic. They're, like, toxicly in love with each other. It's, like, they got some weird Bonnie and Clyde shit where they're, like, they kind of, like, They, like, make the wrong decision. Sometimes they even, like, you know, hurt each other's feelings, but then they're like, if anybody else ever tries to encroach, they, like, will murder for them. And it's like, bro, where's the balance here? It's like us against the world. They love this like us there's these us against the world couples, and they're definitely one of them.

09:22

Yeah. It was messed up. Do you wanna talk about,

09:25

Alex Hermozy?

09:27

Hermozy?

09:28

Yeah. What did you do? You were, like,

09:30

problem. Going deep on Alex terminology. I was like, we are it would have been nice to do before we had him on the pod. You do it, like, ten episodes later.

09:38

I had a call with him today. Greg, you know who this guy is?

09:43

I don't know who's at. Alright.

09:45

Actually, I feel bad. I consider him a friend, but I don't I don't know if it's pronounced Mozy or Mazzi. Alex Hermozy?

09:51

Is it? No Mazzi. Alex Hermozy. One of those things where it's like two like, you've known him for a decade.

09:57

Yeah. And it's like, you can't ask him now. No. You know, you gotta be like, call him Mars. Why just go by Mars? Because It's one of those I don't know about his first name. Dude, one of my best friends name is Cieva. I don't even know how to pronounce his last name. So, and I've been best friends with him for ten years. He's in my wedding.

10:12

So anyway, this guy Alex, so basically, he had this company called Jim Launch.

10:17

And it was really interesting because

10:20

some people and I wouldn't call myself totally on that side, but I understand it is that it appeared a little scammy, but Actually, I don't think it's scammy at all anymore. He ended up. No. Wait. Sam, you gotta describe the guy's look first.

10:32

So he's got he looks like a straight version of the construction worker in the village in the village. Was it the village people? I mean, he looks a construction worker. So he wears flannel. He's got this beautiful thick mustache,

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long, awesome hair, like a like a Persian Samsung.

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And he is just yoked. He's jacked. He's huge. And he's, like, good looking. And he just he's, like, looks like Arnold Sworschneger a little bit. And he created this business called gym launch. And, basically,

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you would pay either four thousand dollars for one thing or twenty thousand dollars for another thing. And it was for people who owned small gyms, whether that's a crossfit gym or a personal training gym, and he would basically teach you how to make your gym better because he owned gyms. And he would promise you something like,

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you'll gain at least seventy five thousand dollars in new revenue a lot of people, he averaged that they would improve by two hundred thousand dollars in revenue.

11:28

But the business model that he had was crazy, and the results were even crazier. So the business was by the time the business was four years old, he bootstrapped it and had paid himself forty five million dollars in dividends.

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And then on the fifth year, I believe he sold it and he netted something like fifty or sixty million dollars. And so he was like, yeah, I paid myself forty five million dollars. So I had about twenty five million just in cash in the bank. Then we sold and I netted, like, another fifty. And

11:54

that story alone is crazy. Is that right, Sean?

11:57

I don't know if those exact numbers are right. It sounds like you talked to him. So let's go with that. I I don't really know. But but yeah, but you you got the the the product right. The the the the kind of the the hook or what's interesting is Most gym memberships are like, you know, pay twenty dollars a month and you get into a membership. And, like, it's hard to sell people that. And what he was ended up doing was he was like, alright. Well, people don't want a membership. What do they really want? They wanna lose weight. They wanna lose weight in six weeks or less. They wanna lose weight. So they look good on the beach. Alright. I'm gonna basically sell you a program

12:28

that's going to make you look good on the beach in six weeks. And he, like, he he got good at selling for his own gym where he's like, Oh, I can get people to pay, like, three grand upfront for, like, a fitness training package with nutrition meal plans and stuff like that. And then someone pointed out to him, I think, like, Russell Brunson or whatever, the the click funnels guy pointed out to him, like, hey, dude, instead of just opening gyms and doing this yourself, you should just teach other gym owners how to do this. Like, that's a better product

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is helping a gym, like, add a hundred grand in revenue in thirty days is a better product than, like, trying to open your own gym and use that method. Then he started doing that. And then that's kinda how he went. Now he owned something called acquisitions dot com where he'll, like, buy your business if you're doing, I don't know, five million revenue supply. Well, so he's buying course businesses and, like, applying his methodology. And so but basically, what he sold

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was

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and this is where things got I went deep on. I was like, how did this work? This is crazy. So he basically sold

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not a franchise, but like an operating system. And so he used HubSpot as his back end and he would get people to sign up to these ads that he was running and you do an onboarding and you pay twenty grand and you get four months. And then after the end of four months, you could decide to stay in part of the group and it's forty five grand a year. But you get this after you sign up,

13:43

you get this checklist of things that you have to do. So it's like, raise your price to this, sign up for this software,

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use these emails, the Striimp campaign, get them get this many people to sign up by doing x, y, and z. Here's the ad campaign that you can just copy and paste and already use. And

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then he had a Facebook group where all the members could talk. And that was it. That was the business. It was super simple. And it was doing tens of millions a year in revenue and also tens of millions in profit. And I thought this was crazy fascinating. And I wanted to ask you guys what other

14:13

he told me a little bit, but what other

14:16

niches

14:17

would you use this for? And also, does this model even interest you? It it seems pretty amazing to me. I've never heard of it. I think that if you did this for agencies, like digital agencies,

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that this is a no brainer. So

14:31

you know, we're

14:33

I run an agency called late checkout. We're about fifty people.

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So we're starting to really hit some scale.

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And

14:40

Can you did you say your revenue?

14:44

I mean,

14:45

I don't wanna say my venue. Okay? We have fifty people so you can do some of the math yourself.

14:52

14:53

will

14:54

say that

14:56

yeah, we work with some of the biggest brands in the world, and it's very lonely to be, like, the CEO

15:02

of an agency, like, I don't know if I'm overcharging or undercharging. I don't know if I'm,

15:07

you know,

15:08

you know, doing the right thing. Should I be doing more marketing, less marketing? So, like, what I pay two five ten grand a month to for, like, something like this, like, probably if the ROI is there.

15:22

Yes. Basically, a sales machine. Right? So what each what he said was if you have a business and you have whatever number of customers you have, if I could get you more customers, clearly of value to you. And I think he basically tried to get, like, capture ten to twenty percent of the value that he was giving. So, you know, if I'm gonna get if I'm gonna generate a hundred thousand dollars in new incremental sales for you, how do I capture ten to twenty thousand?

15:44

And I and I'm taking the risk. If I don't do that, then I don't wanna earn anything. I think that's kinda how he started it at least. And so agency is a perfect one like that because every client you sign is cash in the bank. And,

15:56

typically, the agency might be good at one thing, but not necessarily good at going getting new clients.

16:02

So what,

16:03

what,

16:04

you just read this guy's book. Sean, Alex's book. I'm reading it right now. What what do you think about it?

16:10

The book is good. The book is good. I it's basically a

16:14

It's like a marketing book. Right? So it's a it's essentially a marketing book. He does a good job of breaking things down, being simple.

16:21

It's not altogether new information, but,

16:24

But who gives a shit? It's, like, it's good information presented well. And if you're running a business right now, it'll help you. Now the thing I think that he over indexes on is, like,

16:34

He uses, like, the gym launch example really hard. So it's like, yeah, this this is clearly he he talks about. Basically, he says you The secret to sales is make somebody an offer so good. They they'd be stupid to refuse you. Okay. How do you do that? It's like, how do you get them to perceive that there's a lot of value?

16:51

And that they're gonna get it in a short amount of time with a with a with not a lot of cost

16:56

and that it's highly likely to happen. And so his model was like, hey, Jim Owner, I, on a I've worked with a hundred gyms. On average, I could bring them each a hundred thousand in new new sales.

17:07

I can do that for you in thirty days. And if I don't do it, I don't if I don't hit that mark, I don't get paid. How's that? And so, yeah, that is what he calls a grand slam offer because it's gonna And if you bay if you have a grandson offer, you can win a lot of business. You can grow very fast. But I don't think that works in a whole bunch of other product categories. So I think it works in the, like, agency consulting world, which is where he was. It services, I think. It it works in most all services. Well, you know, if I'm selling shoes online, it's very hard to create a grand slam offer for selling shoes

17:37

because,

17:38

you know,

17:39

I can't tell you how much more money this is gonna make you. Right? So already the offer is a lot. I'm telling you it looks cool, you know, that people might like your shoes. That's just fundamentally less compelling. So I just think it's like really, really good for a service business.

17:53

Especially a service business that's in in the business of helping other people make money. But, like, if, like, for example, I wanted to send it to my accountant and be like, hey, you're charging me, like, five grand or six grand a year.

18:04

You should really be charging fifty grand. And if you did this method, I think you would have, you know, like ten times more clients and make ten times more money off them.

18:13

If you presented your stuff this way because you're an accountant. You're saving people money on taxes. And you could basically offer a no brainer

18:20

offer like this and take more value and grow your business faster if you did it this way. But

18:25

It doesn't work for everything. It's kind of the the takeaway.

18:28

I think the pit I think the the pitch is

18:31

is taking a consultancy

18:33

from a consultancy

18:35

and turning it into selling luxury.

18:38

Like,

18:40

that's the opportunity for a lot of these people. Right? Like, I think, you look at McKinsey, McKinsey isn't a consultancy to me. McKinsey is selling, like, a luxury

18:48

multimillion

18:49

dollar contracts.

18:51

Like, that you're buying confidence when you're buying,

18:55

a luxury product.

18:57

Yeah. That's exactly right. He talks about that, pretty extensively in the book. I guess, so I I am reading this book and I have two kinda like,

19:05

my two, like, my right hand man and my left hand man. I have I have Ben, and then I have this guy Andre.

19:10

And told him I was like, guys, this good stuff in this book that we should be using. And so I created, like, a little mini book club inside of our company to do this. Have you guys ever done that? Like, have you have you basically

19:20

I've been wanting to do this with podcasts as well. Sometimes I'll listen to podcasts. That's, like, fucking amazing.

19:24

And I've what I wanna do is just stop listening to it myself and be like, hey, guys. We're gonna do a meeting, but the meeting is us listen to this podcast. And every time they say something good, I'm gonna pause, and we're gonna talk about it. And it might take us, like, six hours to get through this one hour podcast, but I'm telling you it's gonna be we're gonna actually apply the thing versus just I share the link. You read it. I read it. We each kinda move on with our day and we're busy. Have you guys ever done anything like this to, like, get more juice out of out of the fruit?

19:54

I haven't. I haven't. I've got a book club,

19:59

that

20:01

I feel like book club is it's like, you know, a lot of people go in the gym. It's like, you start going to the gym and then you kinda, like, stop Like,

20:08

it's really hard to create a really

20:11

well designed book club that keeps people engaged.

20:15

Yeah. We did book club, but it's the same thing. No one fucking finished the book. So I actually think if we all just listen to a podcast together, it might be a lot easier. It's a lot easier. It's like when you go to school and the teacher brings in the TV,

20:26

that's like how I would feel going to this meeting. I'd be like, oh, hell yeah.

20:30

We're rolling in the TV. Yeah. Give me that TV.

20:32

Magic school bus, baby. The,

20:35

yeah, at Amazon, they do this too. We're like, people write all kinds of docs inside companies like memos, plans, whatever.

20:41

And then it's like, hey, did you read my plan? And then you're like, oh, yeah. Either I kinda did or I didn't.

20:48

Very rarely is it like, I read it. I remember it. I took notes on it, and I'm ready to take action from it. And so at Amazon, they basically hack that process, which is the rule is you have to write you're gonna make a plan, if you're gonna try to do anything, you have to write your memo, but the memo gets read in the meeting itself. So every meeting, if it's an hour, the first ten to twenty minutes are silent reading. Everybody reads it together at the same time. And there's zero expectation

21:10

for you to ever read something beforehand or after.

21:14

Self.

21:16

Oh, yeah. It was it was huge.

21:18

Like and also while you're reading your, you know, you're taking notes because you know right after this reading period ends in twenty minutes, like, It's a bit like school. It's like I'm gonna have to have something to say. Right? Like, I need to have I need to be bringing something to the table from this. And so,

21:32

yeah, that was huge. And I think I think way more companies should do that. It was, like, one of the few big company things that I was, like, this is a process that is so much better than what I used to do at a at a at our startup.

21:43

Yeah. Well, I think that podcast idea that you just had is actually fantastic.

21:50

Cool. Alright. We lost Greg for a second, but let's let's keep going. Did you have anything more on Hermione or you wanted to to go on? No. That's it. What do you got? I was thinking about doing a, like, a kind of, like, a summary slash lessons learned because I have a whole bunch of, like, screenshots and highlights from the I might do a separate pod that's just that if you wanna do that. I'm down. I just I just I just bought the book. I've been watching a lot of us see two videos. There's just something about this person. He's very interesting to me. He's very interesting. He's so transparent to the point where it's weird almost. Like,

22:18

It's like I I, like, he reveals so much. I almost don't believe you.

22:22

No. I believe him. I believe him for sure, but he's revealing so much that I'm like, are you sure, man, you wanna be talking about this? This is crazy. Like, you, like, it's just weird. It's just weird. Right? Mean, he talks like I don't think it's weird. I think it's smart, and that's why I say, like, do I believe this? It's not that I think he's lying about anything. I think he's telling the truth. It's that

22:42

When somebody is that forthcoming, it's sort of like, well, what's in this for you? And I think clearly it's I'm trying to get you to trust me.

22:51

And so I'm going to be like kind of like explicitly

22:54

transparent about something because I there's a there's a motive behind that. And I think that's okay. But I think a lot of people are like, wow. Thanks, dude, for the favorites. Like, there's no favors.

23:05

People do things because they have a motive. They wanna build their brand in a certain way. They wanna attract more more readers or viewers or they're trying to build trust in a way so that they can get some advantage. You know, then that's okay. I think that's a it's a good thing. I I do it too. I do it all the time.

23:19

Yeah. I've got I've gotten to know him over the past few weeks. I'm a fan man. I'm a fan of Alex's, but what do you got?

23:25

Well, actually, we should so Greg, I I told you bring three or four bullets. I don't know if you had time to do that, but I I have some if you don't have any, but I'd like to use yours if you do because you're here. You're the guest of honor. Yeah. I mean, I always have a a note file with some ideas. I can tell you I'm not gonna say they're great ideas, but let's let's start with that. And I I'd love your feedback.

23:42

Alright. Let's do it.

23:44

23:46

went to a restaurant,

23:48

two nights ago,

23:50

saw that a bunch of kids were playing these,

23:53

like, picture like an applebee's,

23:54

and picture a bunch of vending machines.

23:58

Like, you know those games that you can play.

24:01

I'm thinking

24:03

NFT vending machines.

24:05

24:06

you have to pay like a hundred doge to get in. You can win a board ape

24:11

Instead of winning, you know,

24:13

collectibles, you're winning digital assets. Is there a business to be created around that?

24:19

You're talking about the thing where you would, like, the old way is, you, you know, you put your quarter in, and there's a bunch of plastic balls you get one out. You got this little shitty toy, and it's, like, think in Japan, they call these the Gotcha games. Is that right? Like gotcha mechanic where you have this sort of variable reward. You might win the good thing, but you almost never win the good thing kind of keep wanting to open up these boxes and see what you get.

24:40

Exactly. That, but with doge.

24:43

And when you get an

24:45

NFTs inside.

24:46

Greg, do you own any NFTs?

24:48

Are you on board with us or no?

24:50

Yeah. I mean,

24:52

I've got hundreds of NFTs.

24:55

That's crazy.

24:57

Yeah.

24:58

I think the problem is don't. I think not enough people own

25:02

you know, so I I kinda feel like it's like you need to apple pay to quickly, like, instantaneously buy doge and then use it use it in the game, basically. Like, You need some way for their phone to just buy the thing and then just keep swiping their phone basically. Yeah. I guess, like, what I'm particularly interested in here is, like, what are

25:20

you know, in real life experiences that you can create that connect with crypto.

25:28

Yeah. Another version of this, by the way, because I don't need it at restaurants anymore. I just deliver everything. So it's like,

25:34

you know, a QR code that comes with DoorDash that I just scan and I get to play the game on my phone. Right? Like, why do they need to buy a screen

25:41

when I carry a screen in my pocket? So, like, really, all you just need is a QR code to do this game. You don't even to build the you don't even have to build the vending machine necessarily. It's true. It's true.

25:52

Alright. I got another one. So

25:54

25:56

moved out of my apartment December fifteenth. It's now

25:59

March twenty eighth,

26:01

and my landlord

26:04

hasn't returned my security deposit.

26:07

Alright. Is that in America or It's in Florida. Yeah. Miami. Oh, there's a bunch of laws around that California.

26:14

Well, there's laws around it in in Florida too. And I googled it, and there's a whole process you can go into it. I'm sure probably not as intense as California, but, you know, you have certain rights.

26:26

There's a whole process that you have to go and eventually you go to small claims court, etcetera, etcetera.

26:31

How much was it?

26:34

It's a few hundred dollars, but it's just like the pain to, like, go through it. It's not really worth it. My security deposit is fifty seven hundred dollars.

26:43

So what I really wanna do is scare my

26:47

my landlord, basically.

26:49

Right? That's what I wanna do. So I wanna hit I I need to get his attention. That's what I really need to do.

26:56

So I googled,

26:59

you know, sending a lawyer letter. I didn't wanna call my lawyer because I was, like, at seven hundred and fifty dollars an hour or whatever. Right? It's gonna cost, like, two grand for this lawyer letter. So the idea is

27:10

a ninety nine dollar lawyer letter on demand goes

27:15

go scare someone, basically.

27:18

What do you think? Have you, It's Harry letter. I love it. So listen, we gotta talk about this, Sean. You know where where where I'm gonna go with this. Right?

27:25

Do not pay? You're going to Penny Court? Oh, I like Penny Court. I do not pay. John, but I'm gonna go do not pay. Great. Have you not heard of do not pay?

27:33

Yeah. So is is do not pay that service at, like, if you have a parking ticket, you, like, send it to them and

27:39

they, like, they deal with it and you get a percentage of it back or something like that?

27:45

They do a bunch of stuff, but that is one of the ways how they started. How do you explain this company now, Sean, now that it's kinda they have so many features?

27:53

Yeah. I think it started. Basically, it's a it's just trying to save you money from shit that you you shouldn't have to pay for, you don't wanna pay for. So it started with, like, subscriptions you're not using. Alright. Cool. Unsubscribe me from a bunch of subscriptions I'm not using. Then it became yeah.

28:07

Then then they also added, you know, like,

28:09

go contest this parking ticket because, like, I don't know, twenty or thirty percent of parking tickets are, filled out incorrectly, and you actually shouldn't have to pay. And if we save you money, we will keep a little bit, but it's just you did no work.

28:21

And you'll get, they just keep a portion of the savings that they get that they earn for you.

28:25

And then they expanded into, like, eighty three b election. Like, hey, we'll do that for you for your startup. So there's just, trying to do they're basically just trying to eliminate the busy paperwork that nobody wants to do. And they're like, we'll just take care of that for you. How would that feel? And a bunch of, like, people like us who are, like, millennials who are, like, I just don't know how to do it. I don't wanna do it. I don't like printing things or going to the post office and, like, doing all this shit. Yeah. Please take care of this for me. So it's a time saver company. That's how I think about it. And Greg, I had a landlord. I had a sixteen thousand dollar deposit. This was for our office.

28:59

When COVID

29:00

29:01

our office lease just so happened to end right around when COVID was happening. So we got really lucky and we just canceled it. And this guy would not give me the sixteen grand. I found out dude, I got crazy on him. I found out where he lived and I showed up at his house. And he wasn't there. I found out where he worked and I showed up there and he wasn't there. And I used do not pay to send him, like, a, like, a letter And finally, he got back to me. It was like, oh, yeah. You know, it just slipped my mind. Like, he was like, no big deal about it. And I was like, dude, I've been hounding you for six weeks, man. Where's this money? And So they they have that feature where you can just send a scary letter? You send a scary letter, and, it worked. And so, we we I got my sixteen grand. But legally, you're supposed to get sixteen grand plus interest, which I did not get. And I, I thought about, like,

29:48

fighting over this just out of principle because I love petty shit. So I feel like the idea is really, you know, do pay, obviously, is getting really big. It's like the unbundling of do not pay. And it's taking this idea, and it's like, okay, I'm gonna run a bunch of Google ads against like getting security deposit back, Florida, getting security deposit back, California.

30:09

And I think there's a big business to be created here. Because then that's a that's a good wedge to sort of expand a bunch of different services.

30:17

And I think there's the other version. I think we we've once said, which was like

30:21

call my politician.

30:22

There's all these things where it's like, oh, this bill could get passed. That's bad for crypto holders. Maybe sure you call your politician and and let them know you don't want this. It's like, I don't know. And I didn't wanna call my politician and, like, who what what if they pick up? What am I gonna say? You know, like, there's, like, there's all kinds of problems with this idea of calling. Don't like calling. What happens if they pick up? Know, I I really wanna go down that road. But I would happily, you know, sort of tip, you know, ten bucks to just have someone annoy the shit out of my politician about this issue that I care

30:54

like, if my donation

30:56

funded,

30:57

like, eighteen annoying calls, like, if there's just a website that said, would you like to donate ten dollars to the cause? And that will fund eighteen annoying phone calls from Sri Lanka to this politician. I'd be like, fuck. Yeah. Put me down for twenty. And so I think that's the other version of do not do not pay is like Go hassle for me.

31:15

That's awesome. I'm on board with that.

31:18

Can you What else you got, Greg? My other one, I it relates to law actually a little bit. So,

31:24

you know, we've been

31:25

and then, Sean, I know you're into crypto.

31:28

So I've been spending a lot of money on you know, crypto accounting and crypto

31:33

law firms. And I think that there's an opportunity to create a web

31:40

three

31:41

Crypto accounting firm and a web three,

31:46

crypto,

31:48

law firm. But all you have to do is basically you find an existing law firm that understands securities law. And you're like, hey, you know, you you your your shop of ten lawyers, and you're like, you know, you understand securities a lot. Maybe there's some, you know,

32:05

up leveling in terms of learning specifics about NFTs, etcetera.

32:09

I'm gonna be the, like, marketing engine for you.

32:14

You know, use things like the milk road and use things like late checkout.

32:18

And

32:19

I'm gonna,

32:21

send you leads.

32:23

So the customer is happy because they're like, wow, this is like a web three related,

32:27

you know, law firm, and I wanna work with someone who's What does that mean? I don't know what you're using you're using words that I don't have no idea what they mean. What does a web three related law firm mean?

32:37

Okay. So

32:38

let's just say you're creating an NFT project, but you wanna make sure that you don't go to jail.

32:44

32:45

let you don't do any SEC violations. Do you feel comfortable calling up your regular lawyer

32:53

who's

32:54

might not even know what an NFT is, or would you specifically wanna talk to a law firm

33:00

that lives and breathes web three.

33:03

It depends if they have,

33:06

what's, like, for example, if I what's the term If I follow something my lawyer says and they're supposed to be the expert

33:12

and I get in trouble, sometimes I can, like, blame them.

33:16

What's that called?

33:18

God. I can't remember that. I can't remember, but Skape Goating. Yeah.

33:22

No. It's like, it's like, it's like when you hire a seat Time. It's like when you hire a c if if you hire a CPA and your CPA screws you, like, blatantly,

33:31

sometimes you're not always you you can you know, that goes that you're taking to account, like, oh, dude, I thought he was doing it right. He's a CPA. So, like, your CPA can actually get in trouble, not necessarily you. So it depends if that lawyer has that. But I don't know. I'd rather just go to a legal for a lawyer that special yeah. That specializes in this thing. I don't know why you'd call it a web three. He's describing it. But he said a web three law firm.

33:55

Yeah. Like, they specialize, and they they know the laws around. They specialize in advice. I think you meant, like, around this. Web three. Not a digital law firm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All this is is, like, I mean, this is a marketing challenge more than anything.

34:08

And,

34:09

you know,

34:10

one of the hardest problems about running a law firm is, you know, or an accounting firm is getting clients.

34:17

And and we talked about this with the agencies. The same thing is true with, you know, law firms and accountancy firms. I think, you know, I don't know the like, I I don't know the margins of some of these businesses, but I imagine they're quite big.

34:28

So I think there's something there.

34:31

So I considered doing this with my before I did the milk road, I was like, alright. What do I wanna do? Like, I got this audience that's growing. Right? It's like, Twitter's Twitter's pretty big now. So I got, I don't know, quarter million followers, newsletters growing.

34:43

I could just, like, you know,

34:45

make no money off this that's fine. How big was your newsletter? It was like a thirty forty k or

34:49

something

34:54

at the time. I can forward them there. Oh, I I

34:58

yeah. Before Millcroed. And,

35:00

and I was like, I could teach a course. So I did that. I taught a course. I was like, alright. Cool. It makes way more money than ads, but it's more effort.

35:06

And then I was like, you know,

35:08

what's, like, the highest value business? What's, like, the best fucking business?

35:11

And I was like, so I started making a list of, like, places where I spent a lot of money that I feel like they're just kind of like rinse and repeating the same stuff for me.

35:20

And so I I I narrowed it down to two. I'll give you the second best one was accounting.

35:25

And I was like, I could just start a bookkeeping firm

35:28

for,

35:29

for startups and entrepreneurs.

35:32

Just in my own portfolio, if I if I invested in forty five companies last year, just within that, I bet I could get fourteen clients of just companies that don't have a bookkeeper, because most companies don't have bookkeepers. You were

35:42

considering starting a bookkeeping service

35:45

That's like the worst idea. Boring thing I could do. For you.

35:49

That's a horrible idea for you. I was just gonna be the marketing front end. I wasn't gonna operate it. I was just gonna buy or hire, like, a good bookkeeper and be like, cool.

35:58

You're gonna do the books, and I'm just gonna send you clients and you just close the clients and we split this fifty fifty or whatever.

36:05

And, so that was one idea. The the better idea is insurance,

36:08

because insurance is like the best business of all time,

36:11

And, because for insurance, you don't even really do insurance. You just brokered the insurance with another, like, carrier, basically,

36:18

And,

36:19

and most businesses don't have, most, like, especially, like, e commerce businesses, you need business insurance,

36:24

and you don't know, like, I didn't know exactly which insurance I needed. How much how much coverage I wanted.

36:30

Most traditional insurance firms don't cover e commerce, which is insane to me. And so I was like, alright. Well, I could just do that. And so that was another one, which is, you know, startup slash e commerce

36:41

insurance was another one. I I basically did the math, and I was like, I could make so much more money doing that than if I ever did, like, ads in my newsletter. My if I all I did my ad will say, hey, by the way, don't go to jail. You should have a bookkeeper. You know, like, hey,

36:55

don't lose your business because somebody, you know, whatever

36:58

chokes on the button.

37:00

What what was your math for these insurance? What was your math that first of all, I think that's I think you made one hundred percent the right move doing what you did because those businesses

37:09

do not fit your skill set or mine at all of, like,

37:14

It sure, like, that, like, being on top of things, like crazy amounts, sweating the details. I assume you're gonna run it. Not gonna run it. You you're gonna be I'm just gonna find a good person.

37:24

You and I don't want it. Send

37:26

them leads. But, alright. So what was your math behind it?

37:30

Oh, I don't know. I have to pull up all the spreadsheets, but, basically, just with my existing audience size,

37:36

I think they netted out whereas, like, I could be easily clearing, you know, three to five million dollars,

37:42

a year in profit if I, like, kind of, like, hit hit all my marks Tell me more about this. This is actually really the full full capacity. This is actually really interesting. So what we're going to call it, like Sean Insurance

37:54

What was the name? It was gonna be something, I don't know.

37:57

The name was the last thing on my mind. Okay. So I even talked to the I I had this one lawyer one accountant who I really love. There's this, like, Ukraine woman who was, like, this, like, amazing account. She was the first accountant I talked to that felt like they worked for me and not, like, as a they weren't just like a narc And so they were like, she was like, have you thought about this? You know, like, does your business need a vehicle? Because I think right now just last week of the year, if you just bought a vehicle, we can actually, like, depreciate that and use that against your books here. Like, she was giving the ideas that were completely legal, but she wasn't just sitting there and saying, yeah, if you give me all your paperwork and your receipt, I'll, I'll file your taxes for you. It was the first person he was saying, wow, you're paying a lot in taxes over here and over here.

38:37

Let me just make sure I'm, you know, saving you money. And so that was the first person. So I was gonna basically talk to her and be like, hey, should you do this? Like, do you wanna do this? Do you wanna, like, leave, start your own firm? I'm sure you're scared of all that. But guess what?

38:51

You would just do the things you're really good at, which is doing people's, you know, like tax strategy and accounting.

38:56

And I will get you all the clients. That was, you know, the core premise But, of course, I I went down I said I created a free crypto newsletter, because I just figured it'd be more fun. Dude, I think these are great ideas, by the way. I think you made the right decision, but these are act this is crazy interesting. I wish you would have told me that you're Can I tell you about a a fucking genius idea that came out of that? So

39:15

have you I don't know if you've ever, like, onboarded. Well, like, you've probably done some onboarding with some some software that you're trying to use or some company you're trying to use. So for example, with this with this bookkeeping company, right, the one I hired, I eventually hired for my e commerce thing. They sent me this, like, super long checklist. It was, like, Alright.

39:32

Great. Excited to work with you. Do these fifty four things, and then we'll get started. Like, that will be the start of your journey. That will get you to the starting line. It's like, Go to Shopify, give us access to do that. You need to go to view accounts, permissions, add us there. Add us as a bookkeeper, blah blah blah. Now go to QuickBooks. Do the same thing. Now go to Stripe. Do the same thing. Now go to Bank of America. Do the same thing. And there was just all these fucking steps. It's like, they didn't send us this, then sent us this, and it just felt and it was all done in Excel. Right?

39:58

So I discovered the start going. Basically,

40:00

takes that process and just wraps beautiful user experience around it. And I saw it. And I was like, this is so smart. I invested it instantaneously.

40:09

Didn't have a meeting with the founder. I was like, I totally buy it. In fact, any word you say is only gonna make me less bullish on this idea because I am already convinced this is, like, one of the best ideas I've ever seen. So it's called doc. So it's doc dot u s. I don't know if you guys have have checked this out.

40:26

And, Julian, Julian Jupiro sent this to me after I was, like, seeing this problem and then coincidentally, he sent me the same

40:31

idea.

40:34

So so here's how it works. So basically,

40:36

it just creates like kind of like a notion space. So the company who's trying to onboard you, they just create this thing that's like it's like this is just a beautiful experience. It's like, hey, Sean. So glad to have you on board. First three things we need to do are these three. Click the checkbox when you're done with them. So I'll know that you did it. If you have any questions, just put it in the comment thing here, or click this to watch our tutorial from our library that we have about how to do it. And so it just turns that, like, back and forth email or, like, excel spreadsheet, like,

41:06

janky thing into, like,

41:08

like, workflow for a client

41:10

and, and a service to, like, onboard each other. And I was like, dude, that's a problem that, like, I don't know, like, two million businesses a year have with every one of their clients,

41:21

this is gonna work. I think this is gonna work. What do you guys think of this idea? Well, I love it. I just I just got a a mortgage,

41:28

after my landlord's stiffy.

41:30

And,

41:31

you know, I go into Chase's website And I don't know if you've done this, but you go and go and chase website. You go to a mortgage, and there's like a thousand things to do plus you're like transported back to nineteen ninety six. Because you're in this, like, weird thing. There's, like,

41:45

JavaScript breaking everywhere.

41:48

There's, like,

41:49

you, like, forgot about Flash and, like, flashes somehow in there.

41:54

My my my

41:56

banker calls me and just like, you didn't finish this one thing. And I was like, what? She's like, I added it to your client portal. It's like, dude, I don't wanna get a notification. I don't I don't go check that. I ain't that place. I fucking hate that place. Yeah. So, yes, Yes. This is one of those no brainer ideas. I I hope that they they actually embed,

42:16

like, create an SDK. They do. Okay.

42:18

I I I I think that I don't know if they already do or they're going to, but that was like a big part of yeah. I was like, this can live inside of your app or whatever. So you, you know, you

42:28

you could just kinda like onboard people right there inside their experience. This main page is beautiful. This is a beautiful website.

42:36

Yeah. So it is absolutely beautiful, but I have a question for you for you guys. Because it relates actually to to this

42:43

and of Jim Shark and even the the lawyer stuff, which is,

42:47

you know, sometimes when we're creating businesses, you can do one of two things. You can either

42:53

like, create something brand new, which is like this,

42:58

or create, like, a new gym, like, a new wave you know, doing something, or you could, like, help existing people,

43:06

you know, do some marketing, make some money that way.

43:09

Do you guys, you know, and the Silicon Valley Way is is very much, like, go raise a bunch of money, invent something new,

43:16

and it's really frowned upon to do, you know, marketing piece of it and sort of positioning on top of it.

43:22

What are your thoughts and, you know, do you think about that a lot? You know, because I've been thinking about it a lot.

43:28

Say it again. Give give us two examples. I'll give you an example. Give us two examples.

43:34

You know,

43:36

My last company, the founder of twenty four hour fitness invested in my company. And he told me that before the nineteen eighties,

43:43

there weren't membership based gyms. Like, it was a new thing.

43:50

And he invented the first one, and it became twenty five hour fitness. I think they sold for three or four billion dollars. It was a major success. And then there's a lot of people who copied membership based gyms.

44:02

That's an idea of going zero to one, creating an absolutely new product.

44:06

Whereas, what he could have done was created a gym shark of that era or whatever and consulted.

44:13

Jim launch. Yeah. Exact Jim launch. Sorry.

44:15

And consulted

44:17

to,

44:18

you know,

44:20

add additional revenue to existing,

44:23

you know, trainers, etcetera.

44:27

So the question is, you know, how often you are thinking about creating something brand new

44:33

versus,

44:34

you know,

44:35

just kind of a money making

44:38

additional marketing layer on top of

44:42

Sam, what do you think about that?

44:44

I don't

44:45

think I think of anything that I think of I don't think any of it's brand new. I think zero

44:53

close to zero, I think about that. Do you agree, Sean?

44:59

No. I think there's sometimes new things, but it's extremely rare. Extremely rare. Extremely silly rare. But I would even argue that most anything that's new, you could probably actually say, oh, well, it's just like a different version of blank. You could trace back. Right? So, like, Let's take a Airbnb for example. Airbnb was clearly, like, kinda like this breakthrough product became this huge success.

45:19

It's like the category killer, the category leader for

45:22

sharing economy,

45:23

whatever.

45:25

And it now it's, like, bigger than hotels. Like, than all hotels, whatever. So it started off as this French thing. But there was, like, couch surfing before that, and, like, that was like a product that did a very similar thing.

45:37

You know, and VRBO, and there was there's other stuff that's, like, around it. So I think you're right that it's very hard to do something completely reasonable. Let me frame it slightly differently, which is seems like what Greg is almost saying is, like,

45:48

do you want to go for,

45:50

try to try to have either a new behavior or an existing behavior, or another way of looking at it would be,

45:57

do you want to create a product, or do you wanna have a service company? Right? Like, it's kinda, to me, that in those examples, it's like, twenty five fitness was a new was like a new product you needed customers to go by versus

46:07

servicing, you know,

46:08

trainers and and and whatever, whoever else

46:12

that was that's like a service business that's gonna have great cash flow and doesn't require you to have this, like,

46:18

winning brand and new product and new customers from scratch. Is that is that kind of is it more about the services versus product? Is that the Yeah. Exactly.

46:26

Yeah. I think,

46:28

you know, Sean, and,

46:30

Sam, like, you know, having spent time in SF, I feel like when I got to SF, I was all about new behaviors.

46:37

That was really important to me. And, Sean, I know that was true for you too, because, like, blabbed, you're always pushing, you know, the envelope with, like,

46:45

you know,

46:46

and Bebo. It's like new, you know, user user interfaces and, like,

46:50

new friend finding and new, just like new ways of doing things versus

46:55

now that we're in our thirties,

46:57

it feels like we're doing less. And this is just an observation.

47:01

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like we're doing less like, the new behavior type stuff

47:05

and more of, like, hey, let's just, like, iterate on this thing and, like, focus it on this niche and and do that. There's this guy named Roger Dicke. I don't know him. I think Sean knows him. Right?

47:17

I never met him. I think Greg actually knows him. Oh, right. So

47:20

I don't entirely know his full background, but he used to do, like, a bunch of high-tech stuff. He I know that he had the, what's the startup that helps you code stuff? It's like a new age, new agency, what's it called? Those are the g, Gigster?

47:35

Gig Gigster. Okay. And before Gigster, Greg, what was he doing? He was doing something like very traditional Silicon Valley. Right?

47:41

I just know him from Twitter, but, yes, he was doing,

47:45

he was the co founder and CEO of Giggster, which was which which was huge. But he did it through a really interesting way. I think he did it through, search lab. Do you guys know what a search lab is? Yeah.

47:56

And but I think before that, like, he maybe was at Zinga or something, like, like, like he put he made, like, a mafia game or something like that. Yeah. Like, something No. He made mafia wars. Right? That's what it was. He made mafia wars. Which at which at the time was cutting edge. Now his latest business,

48:12

I think it's called revolution. Is it called revolutionary? Made.

48:16

Made. Made. And they are renovating

48:18

bathrooms.

48:19

And as a recent homeowner who needs to do bathroom, I went to the website and I was like, This is sick. I love this. I have id.

48:26

And it looks from the outside. Like, the company is just crushing it. I saw another The guy who started Casper, his name's Luke. One of the four founders, his name's Luke. I think he has a new business that's also renovating bathrooms or maybe kitchens.

48:40

And I thought it was interesting that these guys Casper not exactly like cutting edge, but kinda like kinda new behavior buying a mattress online.

48:49

Roger Dicke, you know, the definitely new behaviors. They're going to, like, these, like, older businesses

48:54

they're definitely using technology. But at the end of the day, they're not, like, reem they're not inventing anything new. They're just inventing maybe,

49:01

a more efficient process And in my opinion, those things are far more interesting. And it's kind of intriguing to me that there these guys are doing that as opposed to some

49:11

new cutting edge thing.

49:14

So so I'll give you my my take on your on your question, Greg, which is

49:18

in my twenties, it's like the way I traveled, was I'd be like, oh, you know, fuck it. I'll go tomorrow. I'll spin the globe, put my finger down. Alright. I'm gonna go packing

49:28

through, you know, Eastern Europe or I'm gonna go to Australia and I'll be, you know, sleeping in a van type of thing. And I wanted the adventure. It was actually the right move to do at that time because it's like, how do you get max adventure, max sort of, like, discomfort and, like, out of your comfort zone? You know, Max spontaneity,

49:44

all that stuff.

49:46

And,

49:47

and then, like, now it's, like, where's, like, a sandals resort that I could take my kids and, like, you know, I I just wanna sit down. I just want a place I can go sit. That's not my house. And, like, this is basically the extent of my adventure right now. And so, similarly, like, that's my hope. My business career was the same. It was like, at the beginning is like, yo, I'm gonna build the next social network. I'm gonna build a a dating app where you, you know, you might die or whatever. This is, like, these crazy ideas. It's, like,

50:12

every idea was, like, trying to be crazier than the last It's like, you know, and it all appealed to me that way. And now I'm like,

50:20

cool. I could,

50:21

sell a product that I, you know, let me import a product from China and sell it through a Facebook ad, I click three buttons. I could just sit in my charity that. I don't really need a staff. I don't really, you know, I'll just kind of outsource this and that. I'll I'm just gonna write a newsletter

50:34

and I'll just write it in my browser

50:36

and then that's it.

50:38

Like, I don't have to, like, become the next Mark Zuckerberg. I just need to get to, like, enough people where I'm making a few million dollars a year and living a sweet lifestyle.

50:46

Like, that's that's a win, you know, and that's a and I don't have to manage anybody, and I don't have to, like, stress out about this thing and I don't have to know how to code. I don't have to know any of these things. Oh, yeah. Great. And so I basically am now I'm in the the sort of sandals resort part of my career. And I made that in the best way of possible, which was

51:02

back then,

51:04

I was, like, almost, like, intrigued by the degree of difficulty.

51:08

And now

51:09

I'm completely put off by the degree of difficulty. And instead, I just do the thing that sounds like what's gonna be easy simple fun for me? And, and, you know, I'm just gonna go that route. And so I am much less interested in, like,

51:22

inventing the next big thing as I am, like,

51:26

crafting a dope lifestyle doing something I enjoy. Do do you think that one feels like but do you think that's gonna change when your kids get older? So when your kids become eight, nine, ten, maybe eight to like

51:38

sixteen. They think that you are the coolest guy ever or if they don't think that may maybe it's on the other end of you wanting to think that you're cool and you want to impress them.

51:48

And I've been thinking a lot about that lately. I'm like, Do I think that my attitude will change when my kids become five six seven eight and I want to impress them? Do I think like instead of just like having a sick lifestyle and be like, oh, man. I wanna do something, like, that they are proud of. You think that's gonna change?

52:05

Not because of that reason. I do think it's gonna change, but not because of that, I don't think your kids think you're cool based on, like, your business success necessarily. I don't I don't really think that that's the main the main way that kids think you're cool.

52:18

And even if it was, that's not why I would do something.

52:22

I would just have more free time. Right? Like, when when my kids go to school, that's gonna be like a fucking game changer. It's like I'm gonna get a third of my day that I, you know, I don't have today. And so when they go to school, I have a lot more bandwidth. If I wanna do something more intense, I can ratchet up the intensity and the difficulty level if I so choose,

52:40

at that time. Right now, like, dude, before I do this podcast,

52:44

like, I'm not,

52:45

I'm not, like,

52:46

you know,

52:48

researching every detail for the twenty minutes before this podcast typically.

52:51

I'm, like, reading

52:53

this called goofy's adventure to my daughter, putting her down for the nap. You know, like, that's how I prep for this product. Twenty minutes before is, like, I'm literally reading Disney books. Putting my daughter to bed in time to come back out here. Right? So it's like, there's a lifestyle I like right now that's doing this. And so I'm optimizing for that. I think in five years, I'm gonna be picking a very different challenge than I'm picking today

53:14

just because it'll be time for another chapter, and I'll probably be like, oh, that style shit's boring. I wanna go do something big, or I'm gonna be like,

53:22

fuck business. Business is stupid. I'm gonna go, like, try to write a comedy show, and I'm like, try to sell a show for TV. Like, I don't know. I'm gonna do something else with my life. Every five years, I wanna kinda reinvent myself in terms of what I'm doing. So

53:35

You've come a long way, Sean.

53:37

So one of the first times I met you, you invited me to the Bebo launch party.

53:44

And I invite I was like, could I bring a plus one? You're like, sure. I bring this friend who is visiting.

53:50

And we walk into this warehouse or something in San Francisco. I remember we had to, like, walk upstairs

53:56

and, like Where was this, Sean?

53:59

It was in a, you know, like, a car manufacturer, a car, repair. Yeah. Like,

54:05

like a garage just like for car repairs, whatever. I don't I don't know. I forgot how to speak English, but, like, Basically, Michael had bought one of those.

54:11

Like, got rid of all the car, like, car maintenance stuff and just turned it into, like, his man cave. And he hadn't filled it up yet with his his, like, fancy cars and cool shit yet. So it's just an empty warehouse in the middle of San Francisco, Downtown San Francisco,

54:26

And we threw our launch party there before he filled it out. So I'm there with one of my buddies from the small town in Quebec. The guy has never left his town basically in his entire life. So he had land to San Francisco. He's staying with me. He gets into this, you know,

54:41

car shop or whatever,

54:42

and it's like dark, and there's smoke, and there's lights everywhere, and then you walk in, and there's all these people,

54:49

and there's lights everywhere. And he, like, literally whispered to me, and he said, is Kanye West coming to this?

54:58

Did he say yeah?

55:00

I said, yeah. And

55:03

It was, like, one of those moments, like, I'm sure a bunch of people have, like, watched

55:08

the social network when it's, like, Justin Timberlake because, like, talking to,

55:14

or, I guess it's, Mark Zuckerberg in the club, and it's just, like,

55:18

it's intense.

55:19

And It's like larger than life. And you were kinda like living that

55:24

lifestyle in San Francisco, not like I mean, I'm I'm painting you as very playboy, and I won't say you're a hundred percent playboy, but,

55:32

in the sense of, like, you were living that lifestyle, you're you were doing that, like, Zuckerberg thing.

55:38

And now,

55:42

you're not, you know, you're kind of doing the complete opposite. And my question to to to actually both of you, but particularly for Sean,

55:50

is if you could redo it,

55:53

would you have done more

55:56

more of these product bets that are,

55:59

there's it's really less risk. Like, for example, milk road, like,

56:03

There wasn't that much risk there. Yeah. Let's, yeah, let's be real. Right? So, like, I feel like people, like, worse now that we're in our thirties, we're focusing on different niches,

56:12

and we're taking things that are working, different communities,

56:15

and we're just pushing that out there with, you know, low product risk. Would you have done that, or do you think that you needed to do these crazy bets in your twenties

56:24

to to to be where you are today.

56:27

I have a very easy answer, but I'll let Sean go first.

56:30

No. No. Go. No. I want you to go first. I wanna hear what you're gonna say. Play Boysean. Well, as play Boysean, by the way, for that, I flew in this painter that I had met. And he did I don't know if you remember that he did a live painting where he He's painting this, like, abstract

56:44

thing. He's break dancing while he's doing it. And there's a guy I had seen at a at a fair in Greeley, Colorado. Many years before that. And I was like, hey, dude. I have like a, like, I have I have a company that has, like, a bunch of funding. Like, you wanna just, like, fly off with this party and do something dope. Do that thing you did at that little town fair do it in front of a, like, hundreds of people at this thing, and he's doing it. And then at the end, he spins the canvas and what looked like this crazy abstract thing, was he had painted, like, a fucking Bob Marley upside down. And it's, like, he does this, like, whatever. He flips the thing, and then he's, like, done. And he slaps it with his hand. It's full of paint. And it was like, that was the moment. And I was just like, that party was dope. That was a dope party, actually. Now that I remember it. So do I regret it? Well, now that I'm thinking about that party, no. I don't regret it. That's that was pretty awesome.

57:28

I'm glad I did it because I'm happy with where I am now. Having said that, there were so many things that I did foolishly

57:35

during that time, and I'm not just talking about, like,

57:38

You know? Oh, you know, I wasn't as good at this thing as I am now. It's like, no, like, there was so much opportunity right under my nose,

57:45

and I was blind to it. And, like, one of the biggest, like, scary things for me now is, like,

57:50

what are those things today that are right in front of me? That I'm too stupid to see just like I was too stupid to see it seven years ago when I was doing that other thing.

58:00

For example,

58:02

Greg, you were in our early mastermind groups,

58:04

and the founders of calm were there. And they were talking about how hard it was and how they're just, you know, it was just Alex. It was just kind of like Yeah. It's hard to raise money right now. I'm trying, and and we were just like, dude, it's a cool app, man. You should stick with it. He's like, yeah, I'm I'm gonna just keep going. And, like, that's a two billion dollar plus company now. And we were helping him, like,

58:24

dude, why didn't we cut the check? You were there too. I don't know. You didn't kinda check either. Did you? I remember at the time, like, if I'm being honest, like, I felt that

58:33

it was too niche. Like, I was like, We were, like, Sean, you and I were focusing on, like

58:39

We were doing big stuff. Stuff that was gonna be Yeah. Exactly.

58:44

Do we? Oh, one aqua hire later. And he's he's got the huge company. Exactly.

58:50

There was so many of those. So in our masterminds itself, I think loom was in there. That's a billion dollar company. And I remember kinda like trying to mentorship and being like, bro, like, you know, Don't worry. You'll figure it out. This maybe is not this one, but, like, when you get to your real game, you're gonna be, like, good because of this experience. You were friends with him too. Like, did you invest in that? I missed I missed I missed it. It was called,

59:12

what was it called open test dot co.

59:15

And that's what Loom was originally.

59:18

And it, you know,

59:20

it felt like,

59:22

you know, when you're doing your first startup and

59:26

it just feels so shaky because you're it's your first time doing all this stuff. Like, that's what

59:31

it felt like. It felt like. And so it was

59:34

you know, and then also the the narrative at the time was

59:38

don't invest in other people's startups. You got if you if you wanna make it in Silicon Valley, you gotta give

59:44

laser focus. So I, you know, my mistake

59:48

in my twenties was I came to San Francisco

59:51

and

59:52

you know, I listened to all these VCs with all their narratives,

59:56

and I did it. And if I were to redo it, I would frankly just be doing what I know, which is just doing, like, what I'm doing now, which is, like, focused on communities, doing agency services,

01:00:06

you know, focusing on niches and and and web, you know, yeah, just build and experiment and not have the big biggest exits in the world.

01:00:17

I So there there was, like, ten examples like that. Like, I remember Alex McCall came over one day and he we were catching up, and then he went on to start clear. I remember thinking this guy's fucking amazing.

01:00:27

I should invest in this clear bit thing. And I, like, went over to his office and we, like, hung out. I was like, got to meet the guys. I was like, I love the energy of this office, man. Like, if I just couldn't do anything besides feel this office, I would be like, they're building a winner in here. And that's also like a, I don't know, it's a billions, multi hundred million dollar company.

01:00:43

And he told me at the end, he goes, oh, by the way, I'm buying up,

01:00:46

I was like, what else are you doing? Finally, I started asking smart questions. I was like, what else are you doing? Oh, I bought up some stripe shares. The stripe shares available for, like, two billion dollars. So I'm buying a bunch of stripe shares. I think it was him. Maybe it's Josh Buckley. He's one of them. And he's like, I brought up Stripechers for two billion. Let me know if you want in. And I was like, two billion. To me, I was like, well, that's, like, the most a startup is worth. It's like a billion is like the top of the mountain. So, like, to me, it was like, oh, there's no upside left, you know. I didn't, like, think from first principles about, like, everybody knew Stripe was fucking amazing. It was, like, the best startup in the whole, like, you know, in Silicon Valley.

01:01:19

And I had this opportunity to go buy Stripears at two billion. And I thought how late I was. And I was like, man, I wish I could have got in earlier. And now, like,

01:01:27

you know, the things I would give for Stripeciers at two billion now, like, it's like,

01:01:32

That's already like,

01:01:34

like a hundred x, you know, from from there. And that was proven, right?

01:01:38

Forget that. Then there was all the services we were using. Like,

01:01:42

Fern who's my CTO, he'd be like, oh, this is a cool cool product. Let's use this in our tech stack. If I had just invested in all the bills we were paying for, like, software we were using, like pager duty and elastic search. And so, you know, like, one after another. Those were all huge winners that were pre IPO.

01:01:57

So First was investing. The second was, like, project selection. So, like, you're talking about Greg. I did the same thing. I was playing by the rules of, like, playing by other people's rules. Meaning, like, what was considered cool at Silicon Valley was to be like a product guy who was building who had a cool product taste And it was building, like,

01:02:16

you know, like, new markets and, like, going for the the big billion dollar prizes.

01:02:21

And then I met Sam who was like, I'm writing this newsletter. It's free. I'm gonna have, like, newsletter ads in it. And I was like, yeah, but, like, are you gonna do a startup someday?

01:02:29

Like, that's how I felt about it. Right? And Sam's company again sells for more than more than my my company sold for in the end. He goes, he goes, look, You're good. But basically, like, you're showing up to a knife fight with a knife, and I wish you would show up with a magic wand that would just murder the competition. I'm like, Soundsed cool. Right? I was like, that's a great analogy. That's a cool story, but, like,

01:02:50

I don't know, man. I think,

01:02:53

the math kinda, I think it might achieve the desired outcome, which I'm trying to do here, which,

01:02:59

when I started, I was just trying to be financially independent by the age of thirty. That was the only goal.

01:03:04

And so So, like, if I could go back and just whisper three things about, like, just strat just strategy. Like, forget life advice, just strategy advice. I would have said,

01:03:13

invest in all the smart people you know, like, it it'll it'll work out. If you don't have the money, go convince somebody that you have a bunch of really smart friends that they should give you money to invest in that are in the first thing. The second is invest in all of the expenses on your P and L. So go find all the places you're spending money and go try to invest in all those companies. Also do fantastically well. You'll make more on that than your own company. Okay. If you really wanna do your own company beyond that, fantastic, that's great. You're gonna build up skills and you got a a lottery ticket there that might work. I would have just said,

01:03:43

like,

01:03:44

don't try to be Mark Zuckerberg from the social network. Like, think about what like, like, basically, just open your eyes to the problems and the opportunities that exist today. And so, like, you know, whether it was, like, e commerce or Shopify apps or, like, These sounded small at the time, but they sounded small because that's where they were early.

01:04:02

And, like, at that time, I needed a VC to, like, stamped their approval that this was a good market or a good opportunity, which by that time is pretty late because what's the VC doing? They're looking at what companies are raising huge rounds, which means, like,

01:04:15

four years ago, those were great opportunities. Three years ago, those were great opportunities.

01:04:19

And so I wish I had just kinda been more eyes wide open on, like,

01:04:23

what projects are available to you and, like, the things that sound kinda nation funny,

01:04:29

those are actually better signals for you than the thing that the VC is saying is gonna be huge or is already huge because it's

01:04:35

often,

01:04:37

you know, those companies harder, like, you're in a you're in an absolute dog fight and it's just like one winner out of a hundred is gonna emerge versus other things where, like, you could basically take

01:04:47

no no product risks. No market risks. So I had a friend, Vishal, tell me this one. So he goes, I invest in companies with no product market fit risk.

01:04:55

I had never heard somebody say that. It didn't even make sense to me. I go, what do you mean? Like,

01:05:00

every startup is product market fit risk. He goes, no, it's not. Like, what? And he goes, He was the one who convinced me to buy Bitcoin initially as well. He was like Bitcoin's gonna be the, you know, the biggest thing in the world. He's like, I just put up, basically, all the money I have into Bitcoin. I was like, what this is, like, back in two thousand, I don't know, sixteen, fifteen. Nobody was really saying that back then. So for the product market fifth fit thing, he goes, because, for example, I just invested in a company that's making a robot that makes pizzas,

01:05:25

and it makes pizza. It makes a perfect pizza every time twenty four seven at a lower cost than a human being can do it. He goes,

01:05:32

I don't know if they can he goes, there's a ton of engineering risk. Like, they may not be able to technically do it. But if they can do it, there's zero market risk. Every pizza shop will want this over paying an employee to make imperfect pizzas

01:05:44

only in certain hours, call in sick, and blah, blah, blah, like, for a higher cost.

01:05:48

And I was like, oh, shit. That's true. There are things that have zero market risk

01:05:52

And I was taking, like, maximum market risk before. So, like, that's the other strategy. It's like,

01:05:58

you don't have to take as much market the thing you're doing now, Greg, is like way less mar market risk. The thing I'm doing with milk road had like zero market risk, basically.

01:06:07

And there's just a, like, there's a lot of money. There's life changing money that could be made and a lot of fun that could be had without taking on unnecessary work. What happened to that pizza company?

01:06:18

I think they're still in engineering risk mode. They got like a big contract from Domino's, but then their CEO got just in trouble for some things that they hired a new CEO, something something something, you know, like, again, these are legit engineering risks. So I'm not, like, that doesn't mean they'll all work. But, like, what I'm doing with the newsletter is, like, neither technical risk nor market risk. Yeah. It's operational risk. It's just are you gonna are you gonna be able or wanting to do it for a long time? Which is Yeah. We're just good. That's a pretty good thing to try to overcome.

01:06:48

Right. Yeah. It's really tough. You know, I remember coming to San Francisco and and hearing all these narratives and these VCs telling me this. And also entrepreneurs sort of repeating a lot of this stuff.

01:06:59

And I will say it.

01:07:01

It's tough to go against

01:07:04

what

01:07:05

these stamps of approvals

01:07:07

say to do. You know? Like, you have to tell yourself every day, like and I have to do that too. Like, when I started a services business, all my most of my Silicon Valley friends were, like, a services business.

01:07:18

Like, an agency,

01:07:20

that's what you're gonna do. Have to you know, like and you just kinda have to push forward and and really just

01:07:28

remember that,

01:07:31

you know, just because some, you know, certain people on Twitter say a certain thing or or or sequoia or and Reese and say a certain thing doesn't mean,

01:07:39

you can't have a great, like, I would say you can have a better lifestyle not being Mark Zuckerberg than being Mark Zuckerberg work.

01:07:46

Yeah.

01:07:47

Exactly.

01:07:48

Yeah. The public, bro.

01:07:50

A brown bear shits in the woods.

01:07:52

Right? Obviously.

01:07:54

Yeah.

01:07:55

Well, what's that? A brown bear shits in the woods? Yeah.

01:08:00

That's a sand parts special. That's a sand parts

01:08:04

is that the number seven sampler special? I just ordered because I think I got

01:08:09

it. Does the brown bear shit in the woods? Yeah. That's why people listen to this podcast though for a couple of Sam's Far's Sampar specials.

01:08:17

Did you just what did you just Did I did I just order an, a Sam bars by phone number seven? Because I think I just got it.

01:08:24

Yeah. Exactly. By the way,

01:08:26

there I made a joke recently

01:08:28

where Sean do go. Yeah. So there's these short traders. And I said, oh, yeah. It's all easy. And you just, like,

01:08:36

totally skipped by it. And the people that comments on YouTube were like,

01:08:41

I think the joke was funny, but it was definitely funny that Sean just ignored him.

01:08:46

What? No. People were like, dude, how did you not acknowledge that absolute gem on time, on target? You were you were quick with that one. Yeah. It it got no love, and the commenters,

01:08:58

pointed it out.

01:09:00

You're the new Chris Rock, man. You're the new Chris Rock. You're a better version of Chris Rock.

01:09:04

Thank god. This is digital. He's gonna bitch slap me right in the face. This

01:09:08

Dude, I can't believe that happened. I'm gonna, like, right after this, I'm gonna go see I can't wait to see, Will Smith apologize.

01:09:15

Oh, yeah. He's for sure gonna come up with something. By the way, the form on his lap if you look at the photo, full extension

01:09:22

cross body I mean, Like, do you I've never slapped anyone. If I tried to slap someone once, I'm not gonna have perfect form. That guy has to have slapped before because

01:09:32

you don't just wake up with perfect form on a slap like that. Like, the just look at the extension and tell me that's not a that's not his full thousand slapper. This is a habitual slapper, man.

01:09:43

This guy has slapped before. We gotta we gotta stop this guy before he gets out of control. I wonder who's definitely slept before. I wonder as he was walking up,

01:09:52

the catwalk, there was, like, five seconds there. So I wonder what he was thinking. Like, was he like, you know what? I'm, like, punch him? Am I gonna slap him? Like, I'm wondering what was going through his mind.

01:10:01

I think he's on this rocker a little bit right now. I've done that before to my sister where, like, I knew I was mad, and I started to charge. She was five years older than me. So I was, like, you know, a kid at the time. And I knew I was mad, and I had I had a I have to do something, but I had no plan. And so I had, like, three steps

01:10:18

to improvise the plan. I remember this. And she'll she always tells a story. We were in the kitchen, and I was pissed because she made fun of me. And I'm five, six years old, and I was walking.

01:10:27

And I I'm in the kitchen. I just grab a butter knife, And I go, Nisha, this is the end.

01:10:33

That was my statement.

01:10:35

And, like, she was, like, the end of what. And I was, like,

01:10:38

and, like, nobody knows what happened after that. We both just blacked out. She thought it was hilarious that I, you know, said, like, a movie line, like, a loser.

01:10:45

And I was holding this butter knife. I don't know what I was gonna try to do, but, it wasn't gonna work. She's she could overpower me at pretty handily at that time.

01:10:55

Alright. That's the episode. By the way, Greg, you said something. Don't don't edit yet. I wanna I wanna leave with a with with Greg got my wheels turning.

01:11:03

Even while we're joking, my wheels are still turning about what you've just said about the narrative.

01:11:08

Here's my challenge. Each of us, what's one narrative that you think

01:11:12

Actually, you should be going counter to that narrative.

01:11:15

Like, there's a narrative that we hear as entrepreneurs, as people in kinda tech,

01:11:19

And, like, what do you think is the, like

01:11:22

actually, I don't know.

01:11:23

Maybe it's this other thing instead. So do if anyone has one, do it, but Otherwise, I'll I'll I'll give you one. Yeah. Go for it. So

01:11:32

mine would be,

01:11:35

I'll give you two. There's the inside crypto. There's a narrative that's basically like,

01:11:40

there's all this innovation happening at this

01:11:42

it's, like, the next protocol, the next token, the next whatever.

01:11:46

I'm pretty sure that if you just buy three or four things, like, if you buy Bitcoin, ETH,

01:11:54

I put Luna in there now. Just buy those three,

01:11:58

and you just chill either all of crypto is gonna work, and those will work amazingly,

01:12:04

or crypto's not gonna work. And no matter what you did, like, if those fail. If those don't go up dramatically in value,

01:12:11

crypto just didn't work, and none of this shit will work. And so I think actually a, basically, like, For a while, the best strategy was Bitcoin and chill, and now it's Ethan, I basically think it's still the same. I think it's, like,

01:12:22

buying two or three tokens and not even needing to know anything more, just chilling on those is probably the best investment of the next, like, ten to fifteen years. It's gonna outperform everything during that time. I so I think like

01:12:34

going deeper down the rabbit hole and, like, learning more is actually gonna fuck up your returns versus just buying the the the main ones and just holding for for, like, ten years not thinking about it. That's one. And then the other is

01:12:46

I think that angel investing doesn't make much sense anymore. And I say this as somebody who Angel invests,

01:12:52

Like, the valuations are so high,

01:12:55

that, like, if I think about, like, that same money going into, like, one of these sort of boring cash flow businesses

01:13:01

is so much better for your life. So if you're like an individual angel investor

01:13:06

and you have, let's say, a hundred thousand dollars,

01:13:08

you know, or three hundred thousand dollars that you wanna go put into, like, a basket of twenty startups?

01:13:14

Like, are you sure you shouldn't just buy, like,

01:13:17

like, get an SBA loan and go buy, like, some random website that's already producing profit, and that'll pay itself off in two years or less.

01:13:24

And, and now you own this cash flowing asset. Like, I'm pretty sure that's just gonna do better. Dude, I agree. Better than a basket of Angel Investments. The the the known our friends who have all crush it on angel investing, you know, they means they made their investments five or eight years ago, and it was different. It is it's outlandish at the moment. So I agree with that. I think for my mind that I think that it's actually

01:13:48

I think that

01:13:50

I think that you only have a few swings in your career and a lot of people are like, oh, you should be patient and you've got a lot of time to do certain stuff. I actually think you should try. You should dedicate your twenties to getting your first significant win.

01:14:04

Because after that, life gets a lot harder, you get a lot less energy. You're a lot smarter, which is actually bad. You actually it's kinda good to be kinda

01:14:13

ignorant.

01:14:15

And not enough people. I think I'll I'll oftentimes people go the other route where they go. We'll just go join something for a little while and learn. In my opinion, f that, your twenties dedicated to getting a win and getting it even if it's relatively small and do it as fast as possible. Because after that, life is a lot easier.

01:14:34

I'll give my

01:14:36

what, Sean?

01:14:37

I was gonna say, give the Moise quote about getting rich quick. He goes,

01:14:42

why does everyone hate on getting rich quick? Get rich quick schemes are the best.

01:14:47

I wanna get rich quick. I don't wanna get rich slow.

01:14:51

I got I got two real quick. So

01:14:56

I got off the phone with a friend of mine who works at Facebook he told me, this morning, he told me that he works

01:15:03

roughly ninety

01:15:05

ninety to a hundred and twenty minutes per day. On average?

01:15:10

I thought you're gonna say ninety to a hundred twenty hours a week. Yeah. It's the best when you measure your work in minutes. He texted me. He texted me today. He said, It was nine twelve AM. He said nine twelve AM finish work for the day.

01:15:23

Twelve minutes.

01:15:25

And so

01:15:27

you know, put put us in a group chat. I want him to text us every day. Just the time stamp of when he So that's what that's what I told him to do. I said, you need to create, like, a Twitter and non account. A Twitter. That's and and so I'm gonna

01:15:39

stay tuned. Do that.

01:15:41

But I think that in your twenties,

01:15:43

Like, potentially go work at Facebook, go work at Google, get those high paying jobs check. I think that, by the way, I think I think that's a good way to get a win. Get get, you know, do that for a few years

01:15:55

while you're,

01:15:57

you know, do your doing your your learning on the side, like, join a Dow build a community, build a newsletter, do whatever you wanna do. It would really speaks to you while you're you're not, you know,

01:16:08

Yeah. So you're making money and you're learning.

01:16:12

What more could you ask for? And then my and, you know, just because you gave a crypto,

01:16:18

one, Sean, I think that, and I spent a lot of time in NFT land and web three land too.

01:16:24

I think that NFTs are going to ninety nine percent Freedoment.

01:16:28

It's gonna be a free

01:16:30

Freedoment thing. I think the the idea of selling NFTs

01:16:36

will be a very small thing.

01:16:38

And well, okay. So what what happens? Why why would I away something for free or what's my incentive. So what happens after it's free to make? So,

01:16:46

yeah, I mean, you know, okay. So the idea right now, it's like people are selling NFTs

01:16:50

and projects for point zero five to point two, let's say, on average for some of these, you know, ten thousand

01:16:56

PFP projects.

01:16:58

I think that,

01:17:00

that's gonna burn out at some point. And I think we're starting to see it burn out a little bit.

01:17:05

And

01:17:07

I think that, you know, did you see the hundred thieves

01:17:10

drop?

01:17:12

Yeah. They they, what did they do exactly? They did a much smaller amount. So they basically first of all, it was in gaming and gamers hate NFTs. So the fact that they did a successful gaming NFT launch, like, obviously kudos to them. But, basically,

01:17:28

they won this championship

01:17:29

and they were like, okay. In order to get this, like, collectible, you can go grab it. It's free. We're not saying it's gonna be worth anything, and they got seven hundred thousand people to collect this collectible.

01:17:42

And

01:17:43

it's a trophy. And then they make money on if there's value. Right? So if it grows in value, they get royalties,

01:17:50

And I think that's what you're gonna see a lot of is, like, creators and and and big communities, basically doing free domains,

01:17:59

even though people

01:18:00

seem, you know, people today think that selling NFTs is the future, I don't think so.

01:18:06

Right.

01:18:08

By the way, I'm gonna change mine just to simplify it instead of starting a company via existing business. I think that is the most overlooked obvious thing for a smart person to do

01:18:18

how do you take your market risk to essentially zero?

01:18:22

You buy a business that's already working and profitable, and you just say, cool. I'm a better operator than this person, or I know about a different form of operation than they do. And so I can grow this using Facebook ads or I can grow this using outsourcing or I can grow this using, you know, code or whatever it is. So

01:18:39

you you hear almost no narrative

01:18:41

you heard tons of narrative around the genius visionary start up, start a new thing, building a new project, launching a new thing, and, like,

01:18:49

You hear, like, one or two examples of people buying businesses.

01:18:53

And I think that for most smart people buying a business is a far better idea than Yeah. But when you're in your twenties, my my perspective that is, like, when you're in your, let's say, early twenties, like, do you know,

01:19:03

like, you're saying that now,

01:19:05

But I think, like,

01:19:08

you do need, like, that operational experience,

01:19:11

and that's where my point is,

01:19:14

you gotta,

01:19:15

like, it's worthwhile to

01:19:17

to just

01:19:19

potentially take a a high paying job. And then on the side, kinda, like, experiment and do stuff.

01:19:25

Yeah. That's true. I I'm not really limiting my to the twenties. I think, I'm still making mistakes in my thirties. I'm assuming other people are too. And I I guess it's more like what narrative do I hear now that's easy to float along with that I'm like, you know what? Actually,

01:19:40

I don't I don't actually think this is true. And, like, that's the one for me, which is, like, for most people who wanna be entrepreneurial,

01:19:47

they

01:19:47

default to starting a business. And I think actually maybe it should be the opposite. Maybe it should default to taking on an existing business and growing it and only create a new thing if you, like, actually have a new invention in mind, a new idea that really you can't shake in your head versus, like, just starting and you start I like that. Because because you wanna be an entrepreneur. Right?

01:20:08

Alright. I think we lost Sam. We gotta go. Alright. Greg, thanks for coming, man. Where should people find you? Twitter.

01:20:14

Or on our pod where it happens.

01:20:17

Or, in the mountains of Canada. Or the mountains of Canada. Unless you're the IRS in which case he's in Miami. At least a hundred eighty days. At least.

01:20:26

Alright.

00:00 01:20:45