00:00

Sam, what's up, man? I got, I got some good news for you. Great. Click that link I just put in there.

Sam, what's up, man? I got, I got some good news for you. Great. Click that link I just put in there.

00:06

It's,

It's,

00:07

it's your lucky day, bro. Here's the article in the Financial Times called The Alpha of Ugliness.

it's your lucky day, bro. Here's the article in the Financial Times called The Alpha of Ugliness.

00:12

And

And

00:13

it turns out that being ugly outperforms.

it turns out that being ugly outperforms.

00:17

They analyzed a bunch of investors

They analyzed a bunch of investors

00:20

and the investors who were conventionally

and the investors who were conventionally

00:22

ugly,

ugly,

00:23

outperformed by two percent, I think. So, Yeah. I I saw that. But here's the problem.

outperformed by two percent, I think. So, Yeah. I I saw that. But here's the problem.

00:29

I'm I'm a five I'm five ten. I'm not ugly enough to be made fun of I'm definitely not hot enough to be six foot. To give him the advantages.

I'm I'm a five I'm five ten. I'm not ugly enough to be made fun of I'm definitely not hot enough to be six foot. To give him the advantages.

00:38

Yeah.

Yeah.

00:41

That's the issue. Should I get uglier or hotter? I guess uglier.

That's the issue. Should I get uglier or hotter? I guess uglier.

00:53

Yeah. When I was in second grade, I really liked this one girl, and I was like,

Yeah. When I was in second grade, I really liked this one girl, and I was like,

00:58

Hey, I'm gonna ask that girl to the whatever the dance or something. Like, we had, like, some party in, like, third grade. And,

Hey, I'm gonna ask that girl to the whatever the dance or something. Like, we had, like, some party in, like, third grade. And,

01:05

Now I think about it. That's kinda young to be, as in girls, but that's what happened. So I went up to her, or no, my friend went up to her and he was like, hey, Sean Laiju.

Now I think about it. That's kinda young to be, as in girls, but that's what happened. So I went up to her, or no, my friend went up to her and he was like, hey, Sean Laiju.

01:12

And she goes,

And she goes,

01:13

Sean's ugly. And then that was third grade. And then I'm still reeling. I'm thirty I'm thirty five now.

Sean's ugly. And then that was third grade. And then I'm still reeling. I'm thirty I'm thirty five now.

01:19

I'm hoping at thirty six, I'm I'm off that. But, you know, still recovering, I would say.

I'm hoping at thirty six, I'm I'm off that. But, you know, still recovering, I would say.

01:28

Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

01:32

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. Think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. Hub

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. Think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. Hub

01:42

grow better.

grow better.

01:44

So Anan, the founder of CB Insights, tweeted this out, I think a week ago, and he does really end up tweets where he looks at data and he had this one thing where he said,

So Anan, the founder of CB Insights, tweeted this out, I think a week ago, and he does really end up tweets where he looks at data and he had this one thing where he said,

01:54

he said, I found this data that talks about how good you look and your returns,

he said, I found this data that talks about how good you look and your returns,

01:58

And a lot of people think that the hotter you are or the taller you are, the better returns you're gonna have, which which makes sense, taller people get more get better treatment. And he said, no, it's the opposite. There's a, correlation between attractiveness

And a lot of people think that the hotter you are or the taller you are, the better returns you're gonna have, which which makes sense, taller people get more get better treatment. And he said, no, it's the opposite. There's a, correlation between attractiveness

02:12

or, I guess, an opposite correlation. So between attractiveness and rate of returns for investment managers. Well, yeah, because the the investment doesn't know how tall you are. You know, the tall guy probably could raise more money, but not necessarily make more money.

or, I guess, an opposite correlation. So between attractiveness and rate of returns for investment managers. Well, yeah, because the the investment doesn't know how tall you are. You know, the tall guy probably could raise more money, but not necessarily make more money.

02:24

Well, and it's, I guess, is it the uglier you are, the harder you've had to work? Yeah. That's what I've been clinging to.

Well, and it's, I guess, is it the uglier you are, the harder you've had to work? Yeah. That's what I've been clinging to.

02:32

That's the story I've been telling myself.

That's the story I've been telling myself.

02:35

So speaking of hedge funds or investments,

So speaking of hedge funds or investments,

02:38

let me ask you a question. Okay.

let me ask you a question. Okay.

02:41

Do you know anything about hedge funds? Not a lot.

Do you know anything about hedge funds? Not a lot.

02:45

Okay. They what you need to know is it they work really hard. And it's a really intense lifestyle. So you understand that, I'm sure.

Okay. They what you need to know is it they work really hard. And it's a really intense lifestyle. So you understand that, I'm sure.

02:53

It would if I paid you ten million dollars a year, if you could earn ten million dollars a year, would you be a hedge fund would you work at a hedge fund as like a like a portfolio manager? Would you live that lifestyle for ten million dollars to you? I don't know the lifestyle probably not because I really like my lifestyle. So I would not trade it for a worse lifestyle

It would if I paid you ten million dollars a year, if you could earn ten million dollars a year, would you be a hedge fund would you work at a hedge fund as like a like a portfolio manager? Would you live that lifestyle for ten million dollars to you? I don't know the lifestyle probably not because I really like my lifestyle. So I would not trade it for a worse lifestyle

03:11

if that makes sense. But, like, let's assume Let's assume, ten years ago, would I have made that trade? Yeah. I would've made that trade. And that's what I think they do. I think they they make that trade early in their career, and then they get that's what they do. So I'm reading this book about Steve Cohen. Do you know who Steve Cohen is? The He owns,

if that makes sense. But, like, let's assume Let's assume, ten years ago, would I have made that trade? Yeah. I would've made that trade. And that's what I think they do. I think they they make that trade early in their career, and then they get that's what they do. So I'm reading this book about Steve Cohen. Do you know who Steve Cohen is? The He owns,

03:26

sports teams, and he's, like, he's one of the he's one of the most successful hedge fund guys. But and I think billions is based off of him. Right?

sports teams, and he's, like, he's one of the he's one of the most successful hedge fund guys. But and I think billions is based off of him. Right?

03:34

Roughly. Yeah. So Bobby Oxerad is, off him. But, basically, Steve Cohen, he started as a, bay he's basically a day trader, a glorified day trader. That's how he made his first couple billion.

Roughly. Yeah. So Bobby Oxerad is, off him. But, basically, Steve Cohen, he started as a, bay he's basically a day trader, a glorified day trader. That's how he made his first couple billion.

03:45

Worked at, like, almost like a billion dollars day trading.

Worked at, like, almost like a billion dollars day trading.

03:48

Yeah. That that that's not the best ex explanation, but but but basically,

Yeah. That that that's not the best ex explanation, but but but basically,

03:52

it's day trading on steroids.

it's day trading on steroids.

03:54

So it's, kinda calling, like, a body builder, like, oh, you like to exercise. But it was basically his own money or he was at a a time. It started with his own. So, well, he started as, he started as a kid, twenty three years old. He worked at, like, something that looked like the woofle Wall Street

So it's, kinda calling, like, a body builder, like, oh, you like to exercise. But it was basically his own money or he was at a a time. It started with his own. So, well, he started as, he started as a kid, twenty three years old. He worked at, like, something that looked like the woofle Wall Street

04:10

style setup where it was, like, a dingy. In the beginning waffle Wall Street. He's selling petty stocks at like a like a garage basically in a small, like thirty person operation. He kind of started at a thing like this. The story is, and and they interviewed his boss in this book. They're like, dude, on this first day of work, he came in and he goes, if I was you, I would do that. And make that trade. And the the boss was like, who do you think you are? Tell me what to do on your first day of work. And Steve was like, that's I'm telling you that's gonna work. Within a few hours, it made eight grand in profit. After two years, he was making a hundred grand in profit a day for the firm. And it was like a day it was like a day trading firm where they basically, in the eighties, it wasn't quite popular to do day trading. It was more so,

style setup where it was, like, a dingy. In the beginning waffle Wall Street. He's selling petty stocks at like a like a garage basically in a small, like thirty person operation. He kind of started at a thing like this. The story is, and and they interviewed his boss in this book. They're like, dude, on this first day of work, he came in and he goes, if I was you, I would do that. And make that trade. And the the boss was like, who do you think you are? Tell me what to do on your first day of work. And Steve was like, that's I'm telling you that's gonna work. Within a few hours, it made eight grand in profit. After two years, he was making a hundred grand in profit a day for the firm. And it was like a day it was like a day trading firm where they basically, in the eighties, it wasn't quite popular to do day trading. It was more so,

04:49

hold something for a long period of time, pick stocks based off the businesses. He's so good because he's a savant because he figures out some arbitrage and he's exploiting that. Why is he making a hundred grand a day? So at first, it was he claimed it was intuition, which I believe. He claims that he's a bad at math, which is uncommon for a lot of these folks, but he claims he's bad at math, and it was intuition. He said, I would just look at the ticker It was at the time it was a a physical ticker that would be on the board and it would like change stock prices. And he was like, I would just find these weird arbitrages

hold something for a long period of time, pick stocks based off the businesses. He's so good because he's a savant because he figures out some arbitrage and he's exploiting that. Why is he making a hundred grand a day? So at first, it was he claimed it was intuition, which I believe. He claims that he's a bad at math, which is uncommon for a lot of these folks, but he claims he's bad at math, and it was intuition. He said, I would just look at the ticker It was at the time it was a a physical ticker that would be on the board and it would like change stock prices. And he was like, I would just find these weird arbitrages

05:19

And it was he he's he would short stocks based off of, like, this just changed by one dollar. I think it should be fifty cents higher. I'm gonna buy it and sell it within a few hours.

And it was he he's he would short stocks based off of, like, this just changed by one dollar. I think it should be fifty cents higher. I'm gonna buy it and sell it within a few hours.

05:29

It's incredibly challenging reading this book to figure out exactly how he did this. That's so frustrating

It's incredibly challenging reading this book to figure out exactly how he did this. That's so frustrating

05:34

as an answer, by the way. It's like,

as an answer, by the way. It's like,

05:36

you know, that's like my idiot friend from college who's looking at the roulette wheel and is like, guys, I'm feel it's gotta be red. It's been black four times in a row, and I'm like, That's not how this works.

you know, that's like my idiot friend from college who's looking at the roulette wheel and is like, guys, I'm feel it's gotta be red. It's been black four times in a row, and I'm like, That's not how this works.

05:46

That's very frustrating if that's the answer of how this guy became, you know, a billionaire is

That's very frustrating if that's the answer of how this guy became, you know, a billionaire is

05:51

Good old gut.

Good old gut.

05:53

I just don't I don't know. I don't believe that. That sounds crazy. It's very frustrating. Like, and I tweeted about her, like, rain man and just figured out which direction things are gonna go. Well, I tweeted out about it and Martin Screlli who worked in the hedge fund's world has been replying to my tweets. And he's like, yeah, it does seem like intuition based. More so intuition based, like when you're playing Black Jack or poker, you know roughly the odds as you're going really quickly. The problem with Steve Cohen is he's never done a wonderful job of explaining exactly how he did it. However,

I just don't I don't know. I don't believe that. That sounds crazy. It's very frustrating. Like, and I tweeted about her, like, rain man and just figured out which direction things are gonna go. Well, I tweeted out about it and Martin Screlli who worked in the hedge fund's world has been replying to my tweets. And he's like, yeah, it does seem like intuition based. More so intuition based, like when you're playing Black Jack or poker, you know roughly the odds as you're going really quickly. The problem with Steve Cohen is he's never done a wonderful job of explaining exactly how he did it. However,

06:19

at the age of like thirty two, he started his own fund. He had ten million dollars of his own money. And that's why he started,

at the age of like thirty two, he started his own fund. He had ten million dollars of his own money. And that's why he started,

06:26

SAC.

SAC.

06:26

That's what the his firm was called.

That's what the his firm was called.

06:29

And he hired, a bunch of people, and he gave him, like, crazy commissions where you could earn thirty percent of the profits you made the firm.

And he hired, a bunch of people, and he gave him, like, crazy commissions where you could earn thirty percent of the profits you made the firm.

06:35

And by the time he's like forty two SAC, which is mostly his own money, accumulates, like, ten billion dollars. However, after the first, like, six hundred million dollars, then it's all not all, but it's a lot of insider trading, and they would do crazy shit. Like, they would fly to conferences, take the conference speaker out to dinner at a at a conference where they're like talking about, like, different drugs that might become

And by the time he's like forty two SAC, which is mostly his own money, accumulates, like, ten billion dollars. However, after the first, like, six hundred million dollars, then it's all not all, but it's a lot of insider trading, and they would do crazy shit. Like, they would fly to conferences, take the conference speaker out to dinner at a at a conference where they're like talking about, like, different drugs that might become

06:57

legal based off of different trials that they're currently running. They basically bribe these guys to give them information like this trial is going really bad. So you got trouble for this? Or,

legal based off of different trials that they're currently running. They basically bribe these guys to give them information like this trial is going really bad. So you got trouble for this? Or,

07:06

or no? Because he's I I'm looking it up. Steve Cohen and Networth, nineteen point eight billion, and appears to be a free man. So Yeah. So here's the here's here's the rub. He, does get in trouble for it. But after he's worth already probably five or ten billion dollars, he's do they do it very quiet He's been very quiet for years building accumulating about a billion dollars. The old What does he do later?

or no? Because he's I I'm looking it up. Steve Cohen and Networth, nineteen point eight billion, and appears to be a free man. So Yeah. So here's the here's here's the rub. He, does get in trouble for it. But after he's worth already probably five or ten billion dollars, he's do they do it very quiet He's been very quiet for years building accumulating about a billion dollars. The old What does he do later?

07:28

Then he gets in trouble, and you wanna know something? He completely gets away with it. He gets convicted and he gets in trouble. SAC has to shut down technically, although now it just becomes his family office. A year later, he another firm called point seventy two.

Then he gets in trouble, and you wanna know something? He completely gets away with it. He gets convicted and he gets in trouble. SAC has to shut down technically, although now it just becomes his family office. A year later, he another firm called point seventy two.

07:42

The guy got he he did not get in trouble at all. Clearly broke the law many, many, many, many times However, as I'm reading this book, I'm reading about the the lifestyle of what it's like. It is seven days a week, twelve hours a day, more than twelve hours a day. When you do the lifestyle thing, I wanna read Martin's reply to you. So you were like, this guy, Steve Cohen, fascinating,

The guy got he he did not get in trouble at all. Clearly broke the law many, many, many, many times However, as I'm reading this book, I'm reading about the the lifestyle of what it's like. It is seven days a week, twelve hours a day, more than twelve hours a day. When you do the lifestyle thing, I wanna read Martin's reply to you. So you were like, this guy, Steve Cohen, fascinating,

08:01

what I don't understand, you know, he's basically became worth over a hundred million dollars as a day trader on steroids. It says he followed his intuition with bad math. What does that mean? It's a great question. So here's what Martin says. I studied Cohen for a good part of my life.

what I don't understand, you know, he's basically became worth over a hundred million dollars as a day trader on steroids. It says he followed his intuition with bad math. What does that mean? It's a great question. So here's what Martin says. I studied Cohen for a good part of my life.

08:14

And I think these were the key components. As a trader, he has an unbelievably capacious memory for stocks.

And I think these were the key components. As a trader, he has an unbelievably capacious memory for stocks.

08:20

Capacious. Wow. That's a word. I love that.

Capacious. Wow. That's a word. I love that.

08:23

I don't I don't quite know what it means, but you'll see me circling that around for for the next three days. Alright. I guess it means good. We'll just say good.

I don't I don't quite know what it means, but you'll see me circling that around for for the next three days. Alright. I guess it means good. We'll just say good.

08:31

They're spacious. One of the two. Yeah. So for any given stock, he literally knows what is the situation and controversy.

They're spacious. One of the two. Yeah. So for any given stock, he literally knows what is the situation and controversy.

08:38

This is a little bit like how it impresses some people that Kramer knows most of the stocks he's asked about. They are similar animals.

This is a little bit like how it impresses some people that Kramer knows most of the stocks he's asked about. They are similar animals.

08:44

Number two, he's unwavering on discipline and portfolio slash firm structure. With leverage and a diversified group of portfolio managers, the net result for investors' incredible other firms like Millennium and Citerville have figured this out too. Koen is also a very smart business person, which most traders are not. He can attract impressive talent because he speaks the traders language, whereas other similar phone firms don't have active traders managing the company. I think it's a competitive advantage.

Number two, he's unwavering on discipline and portfolio slash firm structure. With leverage and a diversified group of portfolio managers, the net result for investors' incredible other firms like Millennium and Citerville have figured this out too. Koen is also a very smart business person, which most traders are not. He can attract impressive talent because he speaks the traders language, whereas other similar phone firms don't have active traders managing the company. I think it's a competitive advantage.

09:08

The style has been somewhat effectively replicated by its competitors, however, and the arbitrage has all but vanished in US public properties.

The style has been somewhat effectively replicated by its competitors, however, and the arbitrage has all but vanished in US public properties.

09:16

Yeah. So that's still not the best answer. Right? That's a very,

Yeah. So that's still not the best answer. Right? That's a very,

09:20

that answer doesn't feel good. Like, it's not giving me exactly what I wanted. He said one more thing that I think is great. You were like, it's crazy that he was getting, you know, thirty to fifty percent annual fees. He goes, remember, Martin goes, remember, that's the fifty percent net of fees. So His fees were fifty percent. So, basically, he had ten years we made about a hundred percent a year. It's our arguably the strongest stretch of high returns ever done similar to Renaissance's capital.

that answer doesn't feel good. Like, it's not giving me exactly what I wanted. He said one more thing that I think is great. You were like, it's crazy that he was getting, you know, thirty to fifty percent annual fees. He goes, remember, Martin goes, remember, that's the fifty percent net of fees. So His fees were fifty percent. So, basically, he had ten years we made about a hundred percent a year. It's our arguably the strongest stretch of high returns ever done similar to Renaissance's capital.

09:41

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

09:42

And this guy, he's he's sneaky. He's a sneaky guy. He's he does a he does a lot of bad things in in this book. Okay. Tell me. Some of them. For example,

And this guy, he's he's sneaky. He's a sneaky guy. He's he does a he does a lot of bad things in in this book. Okay. Tell me. Some of them. For example,

09:53

you know GLG, which we've talked about constantly. Expert example. He was yeah. So, basically, what GLG does, I'm a consultant, technically, every once in a while on GLG. So,

you know GLG, which we've talked about constantly. Expert example. He was yeah. So, basically, what GLG does, I'm a consultant, technically, every once in a while on GLG. So,

10:02

a bank is gonna take a company public. They let's say it's, HubSpot, for example. They wanna know all about email marketing. They find email marketers and ask them about which software they use. They wanna learn about if it's a good company or not. Whatever.

a bank is gonna take a company public. They let's say it's, HubSpot, for example. They wanna know all about email marketing. They find email marketers and ask them about which software they use. They wanna learn about if it's a good company or not. Whatever.

10:15

Well, Steve Cohen was GLG's biggest customer. He spent millions of dollars a year. He would become friends with the quote consultants.

Well, Steve Cohen was GLG's biggest customer. He spent millions of dollars a year. He would become friends with the quote consultants.

10:22

Get their information, take them out to dinner and be like, look, just tell me the truth, and I'll put you on salary. Tell me, like, for example, if you're, If you're on this board, if you work for the government and you're getting ready to approve a drug, just tell me if it's gonna get approved. Tell me how the trials are going. And I just bribe them. I've written the number three.

Get their information, take them out to dinner and be like, look, just tell me the truth, and I'll put you on salary. Tell me, like, for example, if you're, If you're on this board, if you work for the government and you're getting ready to approve a drug, just tell me if it's gonna get approved. Tell me how the trials are going. And I just bribe them. I've written the number three.

10:40

And as you keep talking, I will start adding zeros.

And as you keep talking, I will start adding zeros.

10:43

Go.

Go.

10:44

Yeah. I mean, it it it was basic like that, like that. And then they get the from the guys, and they just they basically, like, they they they honey pot these guys, but they become friends with them, ask them about their families, and then they get the information and they bail, they never see them again.

Yeah. I mean, it it it was basic like that, like that. And then they get the from the guys, and they just they basically, like, they they they honey pot these guys, but they become friends with them, ask them about their families, and then they get the information and they bail, they never see them again.

10:59

Sounds like you're dating like that today. I can by the way, this g l z thing is really funny. So when you do these calls, tell me if you're like I've done a couple of these calls. Talk really slow. Yeah. First of all.

Sounds like you're dating like that today. I can by the way, this g l z thing is really funny. So when you do these calls, tell me if you're like I've done a couple of these calls. Talk really slow. Yeah. First of all.

11:11

It's like eighth grade, and I'm trying to hit the word count.

It's like eighth grade, and I'm trying to hit the word count.

11:14

Yeah.

Yeah.

11:15

Yeah. So, basically, with GLG, they pay by the hour. You can charge three grand an hour. I've become very capacious.

Yeah. So, basically, with GLG, they pay by the hour. You can charge three grand an hour. I've become very capacious.

11:22

I feel absolutely silly doing these. Like, I know in my head, like, there's an intellectual part of me that's, like, Of course, two thousand dollars an hour. Hell, yeah. I should be making that. And you know what? This is gonna be such this I'm giving them liquid gold. That's what in my head I say that. However, during it, I become very insecure about what I'm saying. I'm like, none of this is special. This is all so basic what I'm saying. And I feel like I'm a high paid escort that doesn't know how to have sex. And I'm, like, I hope they're happy with what they're getting here in this two thousand dollar hour because Did you ask them? It was just for that reason. To work.

I feel absolutely silly doing these. Like, I know in my head, like, there's an intellectual part of me that's, like, Of course, two thousand dollars an hour. Hell, yeah. I should be making that. And you know what? This is gonna be such this I'm giving them liquid gold. That's what in my head I say that. However, during it, I become very insecure about what I'm saying. I'm like, none of this is special. This is all so basic what I'm saying. And I feel like I'm a high paid escort that doesn't know how to have sex. And I'm, like, I hope they're happy with what they're getting here in this two thousand dollar hour because Did you ask them? It was just for that reason. To work.

11:58

It's a it's a weird thing. I don't actually do it anymore, but in this book, so one of the ways they made, like, a billion dollars was doing this for drugs. And they found out that their investigation

It's a it's a weird thing. I don't actually do it anymore, but in this book, so one of the ways they made, like, a billion dollars was doing this for drugs. And they found out that their investigation

12:08

that ten percent of US doctors admitted to being one of these consultants, some of these networks. And that's only the people who admitted it. And so it was like a it's like a pretty widespread problem.

that ten percent of US doctors admitted to being one of these consultants, some of these networks. And that's only the people who admitted it. And so it was like a it's like a pretty widespread problem.

12:20

My takeaway so far in the book is,

My takeaway so far in the book is,

12:22

if you're a white collar crump criminal, you could basically get away with it. You can you can get away with it.

if you're a white collar crump criminal, you could basically get away with it. You can you can get away with it.

12:27

That's crazy. So he got convicted of insider trading. And what did he have to pay and did he go to jail? He paid billions. He did not go to jail. Wow.

That's crazy. So he got convicted of insider trading. And what did he have to pay and did he go to jail? He paid billions. He did not go to jail. Wow.

12:36

Maybe he paid two billion, but he started a new firm the next the next year. Right. He paid two billion as he laughed uncontrollably.

Maybe he paid two billion, but he started a new firm the next the next year. Right. He paid two billion as he laughed uncontrollably.

12:43

Alright. So you were gonna talk about, like, their work culture sounded like.

Alright. So you were gonna talk about, like, their work culture sounded like.

12:47

Yeah. So I got obsessed with this work culture, and I saw this,

Yeah. So I got obsessed with this work culture, and I saw this,

12:51

quote by,

quote by,

12:52

Keith Roboi. And so, Keith Roboi was at Pomp's conference and he talks about nine nine six. Do you know what nine nine six is? It means. Chinese work schedule. That's the Chinese work schedule.

Keith Roboi. And so, Keith Roboi was at Pomp's conference and he talks about nine nine six. Do you know what nine nine six is? It means. Chinese work schedule. That's the Chinese work schedule.

13:02

It stands for nine AM to nine PM six days a week. And he Keith stands, it seems as he's loves nine nine six. And he tells a story about one of the portfolio companies. They just hired the CFO.

It stands for nine AM to nine PM six days a week. And he Keith stands, it seems as he's loves nine nine six. And he tells a story about one of the portfolio companies. They just hired the CFO.

13:13

And the woman who'd got the job, she was like, I was specifically looking looking for a nine nine six culture. And I googled, and I found out that on your job listing, you said that you guys were nine nine six.

And the woman who'd got the job, she was like, I was specifically looking looking for a nine nine six culture. And I googled, and I found out that on your job listing, you said that you guys were nine nine six.

13:23

And that seems crazy to me because that I don't think is a lifestyle that I want. And so I was curious about nine nine six. And so I got down this. I went down this rabbit hole of

And that seems crazy to me because that I don't think is a lifestyle that I want. And so I was curious about nine nine six. And so I got down this. I went down this rabbit hole of

13:34

of of working. So do you know the history? Have you ever read the history of, like, the four year work week? Do you know how it came to be?

of of working. So do you know the history? Have you ever read the history of, like, the four year work week? Do you know how it came to be?

13:41

Roughly, here's what I know. You tell me where where I'm missing something, which is just that when we went to, like, the factory industrial thing, That's when the forty hour work week of going into the the quote, quote unquote office, the the the plant, the factory

Roughly, here's what I know. You tell me where where I'm missing something, which is just that when we went to, like, the factory industrial thing, That's when the forty hour work week of going into the the quote, quote unquote office, the the the plant, the factory

13:54

became a thing.

became a thing.

13:56

It wasn't that way before.

It wasn't that way before.

13:58

So somewhat. Yeah. So basically, in the book sapiens, the author hypothesizes

So somewhat. Yeah. So basically, in the book sapiens, the author hypothesizes

14:03

that hunter gatherers

that hunter gatherers

14:05

you know, we're talking pre civilization, worked something like thirty hours a week and spent a lot of time just being idle with family.

you know, we're talking pre civilization, worked something like thirty hours a week and spent a lot of time just being idle with family.

14:12

Then the industrial re revolution comes along and factories and machines come about. And in the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, there was a bunch of surveys done amongst the workers, and it was found on average, most of them were working a hundred hours a week, six days a week.

Then the industrial re revolution comes along and factories and machines come about. And in the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, there was a bunch of surveys done amongst the workers, and it was found on average, most of them were working a hundred hours a week, six days a week.

14:28

So they're working constantly. And it was a grind. There was constant, like protests. There was constantly people fighting over this. There was legislation

So they're working constantly. And it was a grind. There was constant, like protests. There was constantly people fighting over this. There was legislation

14:36

that went into,

that went into,

14:38

power in both England and America in, like, the nineteen twenties where it was like government workers. You don't have to work we're gonna give you a normal work week, but basically factory workers didn't get shit.

power in both England and America in, like, the nineteen twenties where it was like government workers. You don't have to work we're gonna give you a normal work week, but basically factory workers didn't get shit.

14:48

Then in the nineteen twenties, Henry Ford was like, Hey, look.

Then in the nineteen twenties, Henry Ford was like, Hey, look.

14:52

The thing about our guys working so much, and my company is so big at Ford Ford Motor Company.

The thing about our guys working so much, and my company is so big at Ford Ford Motor Company.

14:58

I need people to buy cars because if they're working so much, they can't buy pants, they can't buy shirts, they can't go out to eat, and thus they can't buy cars.

I need people to buy cars because if they're working so much, they can't buy pants, they can't buy shirts, they can't go out to eat, and thus they can't buy cars.

15:08

Therefore,

Therefore,

15:09

I'm gonna try this thing where we're gonna create the weekend. We're gonna give Saturday and Sunday off because if they don't buy shit, people aren't gonna buy cars. So in the nineteen twenties, Henry Ford says the weekend's a thing, and that was the beginning of the forty hour work week at least in terms of, like, it being systematic. Henry Ford created the weekend?

I'm gonna try this thing where we're gonna create the weekend. We're gonna give Saturday and Sunday off because if they don't buy shit, people aren't gonna buy cars. So in the nineteen twenties, Henry Ford says the weekend's a thing, and that was the beginning of the forty hour work week at least in terms of, like, it being systematic. Henry Ford created the weekend?

15:28

He made it like a thing. Yeah. Yeah. He was the he was the first big company to make it a thing. Yeah. And he he made it a thing. And what he found was he did something crazy at the time. He goes, hey, workers. Guess what? I'm giving you Saturday and Sunday off. I'm not even gonna touch your pay. Your pay is gonna stay the same, and that was really revolutionary at the time. His workers ended up loving him more. He also did a bunch of crazy stuff. So he built towns there's towns similar to what Facebook does now and Google. They actually, like, give you a stipend if you live within five miles of the office because he was like, I want you to be close to the office. I want you to be available when you can. I'm gonna give you Saturdays and Sundays off, and that was kind of the beginning of the weekend.

He made it like a thing. Yeah. Yeah. He was the he was the first big company to make it a thing. Yeah. And he he made it a thing. And what he found was he did something crazy at the time. He goes, hey, workers. Guess what? I'm giving you Saturday and Sunday off. I'm not even gonna touch your pay. Your pay is gonna stay the same, and that was really revolutionary at the time. His workers ended up loving him more. He also did a bunch of crazy stuff. So he built towns there's towns similar to what Facebook does now and Google. They actually, like, give you a stipend if you live within five miles of the office because he was like, I want you to be close to the office. I want you to be available when you can. I'm gonna give you Saturdays and Sundays off, and that was kind of the beginning of the weekend.

16:05

And then since then, that's kind of become standard.

And then since then, that's kind of become standard.

16:09

Even though he gave them the weekend, people were still working twelve hours a day. So he was people were working sixty hours a week, but then he eventually lowered it a bit to forty hours a week, but then he eventually lowered it a bit to forty hours a week. And that became kind of what the forty hour workweek in America is for workers. And so he sort of invented that. What what a legend? Yeah. Well, he's done a lot of bad stuff too. So So I just googled,

Even though he gave them the weekend, people were still working twelve hours a day. So he was people were working sixty hours a week, but then he eventually lowered it a bit to forty hours a week, but then he eventually lowered it a bit to forty hours a week. And that became kind of what the forty hour workweek in America is for workers. And so he sort of invented that. What what a legend? Yeah. Well, he's done a lot of bad stuff too. So So I just googled,

16:27

so Sundays were kinda casually off, but it was like for church. But he's the one who made Saturday also off, basically, and then also the the forty hour work week versus seventy work week, which is crazy. Yeah. And he didn't change their pay. He goes, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you what you want anyway. Stuff Henry Ford did. Like, how bad? How bad are we talking?

so Sundays were kinda casually off, but it was like for church. But he's the one who made Saturday also off, basically, and then also the the forty hour work week versus seventy work week, which is crazy. Yeah. And he didn't change their pay. He goes, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you what you want anyway. Stuff Henry Ford did. Like, how bad? How bad are we talking?

16:44

Super anti Semitic. So he big fan of Hitler,

Super anti Semitic. So he big fan of Hitler,

16:47

wrote books called, like, I think, I well, he has a famous book. I forget exactly what it's called, but it's called, like, our problem, and it's, like, basically why Jews are bad. Oh, wow. So, yeah, he so a very, very imperfect person, but that's okay. We we could talk about the forty hour work week, which is interesting.

wrote books called, like, I think, I well, he has a famous book. I forget exactly what it's called, but it's called, like, our problem, and it's, like, basically why Jews are bad. Oh, wow. So, yeah, he so a very, very imperfect person, but that's okay. We we could talk about the forty hour work week, which is interesting.

17:03

And so that worked out. And that's how the forty hour work week came to be.

And so that worked out. And that's how the forty hour work week came to be.

17:07

Now over time, a lot of companies have tested

Now over time, a lot of companies have tested

17:10

four day weeks and some claim that it's effective, but I think the verdict's still out. These things are really hard to measure. And then I went and read a bunch of studies on what's the optimal amount of work time. Have you ever studied what the optimal amount of work time is? No.

four day weeks and some claim that it's effective, but I think the verdict's still out. These things are really hard to measure. And then I went and read a bunch of studies on what's the optimal amount of work time. Have you ever studied what the optimal amount of work time is? No.

17:24

A lot of research says that humans can only focus and concentrate really hard five hours a day. That's what some of this research says. There's also a ton of research that shows that there's, like, stupidly high, it's, like, thirty percent increase of heart

A lot of research says that humans can only focus and concentrate really hard five hours a day. That's what some of this research says. There's also a ton of research that shows that there's, like, stupidly high, it's, like, thirty percent increase of heart

17:36

attack

attack

17:40

blood pressure, things like that, of anything above fifty hours a week. And so there's, like, a huge issue at nine nine six in health. And I've read enough biographies. No. There's definitely a trend. Like, can, like, have you ever heard the story of, like,

blood pressure, things like that, of anything above fifty hours a week. And so there's, like, a huge issue at nine nine six in health. And I've read enough biographies. No. There's definitely a trend. Like, can, like, have you ever heard the story of, like,

17:52

rich people having in the eighteen or nineteen hundreds having to go to Florida for fresh air? Because I needed to, like, relax, or they have, like, stomach ulcers? Have you ever, like, hurt? Like, there's, like, a No. I don't read history books. There's a pretty, like, common story amongst types of air pollution or because of something else.

rich people having in the eighteen or nineteen hundreds having to go to Florida for fresh air? Because I needed to, like, relax, or they have, like, stomach ulcers? Have you ever, like, hurt? Like, there's, like, a No. I don't read history books. There's a pretty, like, common story amongst types of air pollution or because of something else.

18:07

Well, they were just, like, having nervous breakdowns. Like, it it was like a it's like a common thing amongst the biographies, and and the doctors would be like, you need fresh air. You have to go to Florida. You need fresh you're having a nervous breakdown. It's a very common thing of these of these guys like Joseph Kennedy,

Well, they were just, like, having nervous breakdowns. Like, it it was like a it's like a common thing amongst the biographies, and and the doctors would be like, you need fresh air. You have to go to Florida. You need fresh you're having a nervous breakdown. It's a very common thing of these of these guys like Joseph Kennedy,

18:22

John Rockefeller, having to tire for basically or take a three months sabbatical because they're broken. You know, John Rockefeller, at the end of his life, you know, alpisha is. Yeah. He had alopecia. So at the age of fifty, he lost all of his hair, and that's a stress induced disease, at least a lot of people think so. So

John Rockefeller, having to tire for basically or take a three months sabbatical because they're broken. You know, John Rockefeller, at the end of his life, you know, alpisha is. Yeah. He had alopecia. So at the age of fifty, he lost all of his hair, and that's a stress induced disease, at least a lot of people think so. So

18:37

is your, first of all, a couple of questions. Number one, Is nine nine six still in effect? I thought I had heard something that China was like rolling that back that they don't do that anymore.

is your, first of all, a couple of questions. Number one, Is nine nine six still in effect? I thought I had heard something that China was like rolling that back that they don't do that anymore.

18:45

Technically, it's illegal.

Technically, it's illegal.

18:47

But still, maybe some people are doing it. But still, it's practice. So, for example, there's a lot of quotes that says, like, j d dot com, as well as jack from Alibaba,

But still, maybe some people are doing it. But still, it's practice. So, for example, there's a lot of quotes that says, like, j d dot com, as well as jack from Alibaba,

18:57

there's quotes where they're like, look, like, do you wanna be successful? If you do, you have to do nine nine six, and they, like, say this on record in their WeChat talking about it. Right. So

there's quotes where they're like, look, like, do you wanna be successful? If you do, you have to do nine nine six, and they, like, say this on record in their WeChat talking about it. Right. So

19:07

it's still common. I think though

it's still common. I think though

19:10

there is an interesting point here, which is I think Americans in particular don't want

there is an interesting point here, which is I think Americans in particular don't want

19:15

you wanna create a narrative about why China can potentially beat us. And you say to yourself, like, all they care about is work work work work work, and I just don't want that life. And so there could be this the case of, like, well, they don't actually work significantly harder than Americans, but that's just the excuse that we're gonna give in our head. Because in reality, I think small percentage of Chinese companies are still doing nine nine six. In general, a lot of the young Chinese are revolting against that. And that's one of the reasons why you see a lot of Chinese American workers, I think, because they prefer

you wanna create a narrative about why China can potentially beat us. And you say to yourself, like, all they care about is work work work work work, and I just don't want that life. And so there could be this the case of, like, well, they don't actually work significantly harder than Americans, but that's just the excuse that we're gonna give in our head. Because in reality, I think small percentage of Chinese companies are still doing nine nine six. In general, a lot of the young Chinese are revolting against that. And that's one of the reasons why you see a lot of Chinese American workers, I think, because they prefer

19:43

the American style for the Chinese style. So okay. So that's what's going on in China.

the American style for the Chinese style. So okay. So that's what's going on in China.

19:49

Keith R Boyse says that he runs his companies. On nine nine six? No.

Keith R Boyse says that he runs his companies. On nine nine six? No.

19:54

You guys have Barry's boot camp, like, twice a day. What do you what's he what's he? Here's what he says. So there's a company called Tava, which,

You guys have Barry's boot camp, like, twice a day. What do you what's he what's he? Here's what he says. So there's a company called Tava, which,

20:01

ironically

ironically

20:01

is a software for or or it's a service for warehouse workers to help,

is a software for or or it's a service for warehouse workers to help,

20:06

factories find warehouse workers. He says,

factories find warehouse workers. He says,

20:09

It's a nine nine six in the office every single person every single day. It's very, impressive, and it's not surprising why that company has done so well. In fact, or he says, this is why the Asian companies succeed because they do nine nine six. So Yeah. As an investor you love when your companies do nine nine six, why not? Of course.

It's a nine nine six in the office every single person every single day. It's very, impressive, and it's not surprising why that company has done so well. In fact, or he says, this is why the Asian companies succeed because they do nine nine six. So Yeah. As an investor you love when your companies do nine nine six, why not? Of course.

20:28

Course, you love it. Okay. Next thing, do you,

Course, you love it. Okay. Next thing, do you,

20:33

do you feel that with Hampton, you're gonna be the Henry Ford of our generation and take us down to the five hour work day rather than the eight hour work day. Is that a thing you're doing? Because I'm trying to bring it I'm trying to revolutionize the adult map. Right? Like, you know, the adult nap is gonna be my lasting legacy.

do you feel that with Hampton, you're gonna be the Henry Ford of our generation and take us down to the five hour work day rather than the eight hour work day. Is that a thing you're doing? Because I'm trying to bring it I'm trying to revolutionize the adult map. Right? Like, you know, the adult nap is gonna be my lasting legacy.

20:48

When I die, people are gonna be napping in the middle of the day, and they're gonna every day, they're gonna thank Sean for for bringing this new nap culture to to adulthood. By the way, naps,

When I die, people are gonna be napping in the middle of the day, and they're gonna every day, they're gonna thank Sean for for bringing this new nap culture to to adulthood. By the way, naps,

20:58

I've read thousands or I've read hundreds of biographies Naps are very common amongst a lot of the people I've heard about, by the way. So if it makes you feel good, naps are common. You read about legends. You legends nap.

I've read thousands or I've read hundreds of biographies Naps are very common amongst a lot of the people I've heard about, by the way. So if it makes you feel good, naps are common. You read about legends. You legends nap.

21:07

I nap, therefore,

I nap, therefore,

21:09

Sean Lake equals legend.

Sean Lake equals legend.

21:11

Yeah. You're Indian. You're good at math. You get it.

Yeah. You're Indian. You're good at math. You get it.

21:16

Do I think that no. I think the forty hour work week I I don't think it's broken. That's what I think. I I don't think it's broken. Like, how many how many hours a day do you are you, like, actively trying to work? And then how many hours a day do you think you're productive?

Do I think that no. I think the forty hour work week I I don't think it's broken. That's what I think. I I don't think it's broken. Like, how many how many hours a day do you are you, like, actively trying to work? And then how many hours a day do you think you're productive?

21:27

Those two numbers.

Those two numbers.

21:29

So, like, I don't plant nine to six. I don't, like, that that's I I treat my running my companies. I, like, remember my parents were like, oh, you work for yourself. You can come out to lunch with us. I'm like, no. Nine to six. It's my job. I'm available and I'm working. Right. So I say that I'm nine to six. I spend a lot of time thinking. Like, I literally just be sitting there thinking, writing notes. So if you consider that work, I think I work forty hours a week. If you consider work, like, typing and actually contributing to a product

So, like, I don't plant nine to six. I don't, like, that that's I I treat my running my companies. I, like, remember my parents were like, oh, you work for yourself. You can come out to lunch with us. I'm like, no. Nine to six. It's my job. I'm available and I'm working. Right. So I say that I'm nine to six. I spend a lot of time thinking. Like, I literally just be sitting there thinking, writing notes. So if you consider that work, I think I work forty hours a week. If you consider work, like, typing and actually contributing to a product

21:56

way less, ten hours a week. Yeah. I do the same thing where I'm like, It's awesome. I'm my own boss. Problem. I'm an asshole as a boss to myself.

way less, ten hours a week. Yeah. I do the same thing where I'm like, It's awesome. I'm my own boss. Problem. I'm an asshole as a boss to myself.

22:05

Yeah. Like, I work harder when I'm my own boss versus if somebody else was managing me. But nowadays with kids, my schedule is very different. I basically do these sort of, like, three hour sprints three times a day, but at different times. So, like, This right now is my first sprint. It basically starts at

Yeah. Like, I work harder when I'm my own boss versus if somebody else was managing me. But nowadays with kids, my schedule is very different. I basically do these sort of, like, three hour sprints three times a day, but at different times. So, like, This right now is my first sprint. It basically starts at

22:23

usually eight thirty or nine, and I'll go till eleven thirty or noon, then I go play with my kids for a little bit, which is honestly only, like, twenty, thirty minutes, but we'll do something fun. And then

usually eight thirty or nine, and I'll go till eleven thirty or noon, then I go play with my kids for a little bit, which is honestly only, like, twenty, thirty minutes, but we'll do something fun. And then

22:35

I'll come back. I'll do another ninety minutes in that that next block, then I'll go workout.

I'll come back. I'll do another ninety minutes in that that next block, then I'll go workout.

22:40

And then after the workout, I got another ninety minutes. That's kinda like the second block because those two ninety minutes just split with a workout.

And then after the workout, I got another ninety minutes. That's kinda like the second block because those two ninety minutes just split with a workout.

22:47

And then late at night after my kids sleep, I'll do another ninety And so I don't know what that adds up to ninety, ninety, ninety,

And then late at night after my kids sleep, I'll do another ninety And so I don't know what that adds up to ninety, ninety, ninety,

22:54

plus the three hours in the morning, but that's how much I work, which is probably, like, six seven hours a day.

plus the three hours in the morning, but that's how much I work, which is probably, like, six seven hours a day.

22:59

And and by the way, I I I I don't I think I kinda glossed over this, but at ByteDance, they currently have employees work six days a week. Every fourteen days. And then, what's the big,

And and by the way, I I I I don't I think I kinda glossed over this, but at ByteDance, they currently have employees work six days a week. Every fourteen days. And then, what's the big,

23:10

what's the big, like, phone company over there? Is it called the Hawaii? How do you how do you pronounce that? Hue? I love that. They routinely ask staff for six day weeks every month.

what's the big, like, phone company over there? Is it called the Hawaii? How do you how do you pronounce that? Hue? I love that. They routinely ask staff for six day weeks every month.

23:20

And they give and they pay them extra for it. Right. So, like, it's still pretty common. But at the end of a forty hour work week, where it's been a hard week, I find myself fried. Like, I I I'll sit and, like, either play a video game or, like, watch TV. Like, I I can't do much.

And they give and they pay them extra for it. Right. So, like, it's still pretty common. But at the end of a forty hour work week, where it's been a hard week, I find myself fried. Like, I I I'll sit and, like, either play a video game or, like, watch TV. Like, I I can't do much.

23:35

I don't know how a guy like Elon Musk or some of these folks, like, have in intellectual

I don't know how a guy like Elon Musk or some of these folks, like, have in intellectual

23:39

stimulation for that long.

stimulation for that long.

23:41

I find it to be very, very challenging, and and I personally we cannot do it. So when I take ten million dollars a year to be a hedge fund portfolio manager

I find it to be very, very challenging, and and I personally we cannot do it. So when I take ten million dollars a year to be a hedge fund portfolio manager

23:49

and live that life where you're on call, twenty hours a day,

and live that life where you're on call, twenty hours a day,

23:53

maybe for twenty million dollars a year. For ten million, probably not. I think it'd be hard.

maybe for twenty million dollars a year. For ten million, probably not. I think it'd be hard.

24:00

I mean, I mean, there's a number. Right? There's a number where you would do a couple years. I mean, that's put you on blast, but, like, you're already gonna be creating that much or more value without doing it. So why would you ever make that Right? Like, it's not it doesn't matter. I didn't say I would. I said maybe. I said there's a number. Yeah. There is a number. I I I that number has to be pretty high. Ten million, not a chance. Right. Twenty probably

I mean, I mean, there's a number. Right? There's a number where you would do a couple years. I mean, that's put you on blast, but, like, you're already gonna be creating that much or more value without doing it. So why would you ever make that Right? Like, it's not it doesn't matter. I didn't say I would. I said maybe. I said there's a number. Yeah. There is a number. I I I that number has to be pretty high. Ten million, not a chance. Right. Twenty probably

24:20

not. I I I don't know. Yeah. But that sounded like,

not. I I I don't know. Yeah. But that sounded like,

24:23

that sound that probably not there sounded like Give me three more seconds of silence, and I'll change my mind.

that sound that probably not there sounded like Give me three more seconds of silence, and I'll change my mind.

24:29

But have you ever read a book? Like, have you ever watched James Bond and you see the villain's lifestyle? And you're like, That's exciting. I wanna do bad stuff. That's what the that's what working as a hedge fund is.

But have you ever read a book? Like, have you ever watched James Bond and you see the villain's lifestyle? And you're like, That's exciting. I wanna do bad stuff. That's what the that's what working as a hedge fund is.

24:41

Yeah. Yeah. Just just do it there's doing hood rat stuff with your friends. That's what it feels like. You're doing bad stuff with your homies, and it that can that does seem a pain. You know, one sexy thing I like about headphones, so there was a guy when I was in college. Guy comes into the office. Our guy comes into our our class, slick back hair.

Yeah. Yeah. Just just do it there's doing hood rat stuff with your friends. That's what it feels like. You're doing bad stuff with your homies, and it that can that does seem a pain. You know, one sexy thing I like about headphones, so there was a guy when I was in college. Guy comes into the office. Our guy comes into our our class, slick back hair.

24:56

And I forgot his name, but his dad is like a legend in the hedge fund game. Like, he was like one of the OG hedge fund guys who made a billion dollars or whatever. This is the son. Son's got his own hedge fund.

And I forgot his name, but his dad is like a legend in the hedge fund game. Like, he was like one of the OG hedge fund guys who made a billion dollars or whatever. This is the son. Son's got his own hedge fund.

25:06

And he comes in and he just had You know, when you, like, you guys are talking before we started recording about, like, the somehow the, like, more successful and rich people get, the act actually the more, like, at peace and, like, chill they are when you they're they're more generous with their time ironically and they're, nicer and kinder. So this guy kinda had that energy where he was in no rush.

And he comes in and he just had You know, when you, like, you guys are talking before we started recording about, like, the somehow the, like, more successful and rich people get, the act actually the more, like, at peace and, like, chill they are when you they're they're more generous with their time ironically and they're, nicer and kinder. So this guy kinda had that energy where he was in no rush.

25:28

And I just remember I could've literally feel that energy coming off and that this guy was in no rush, which was very different than every other person I had seen. Who was this person? We're always rushing from one class to the next. We're cramming for finals and shit like that. Like, it's like high achiever stress. It's just like who who was this person?

And I just remember I could've literally feel that energy coming off and that this guy was in no rush, which was very different than every other person I had seen. Who was this person? We're always rushing from one class to the next. We're cramming for finals and shit like that. Like, it's like high achiever stress. It's just like who who was this person?

25:44

I forgot his name,

I forgot his name,

25:47

regardless. Sky comes in, and he's there to give a talk. And he says basically two interesting things that always stuck with me. First thing he said was

regardless. Sky comes in, and he's there to give a talk. And he says basically two interesting things that always stuck with me. First thing he said was

25:55

he he's talking about his hedge fund and and blah, blah. We're all kind of like eating out the palm of his hand. And he's like, you know, who here would find it fun to work at a fun, like, ours and and do this. Like, make big bets for a living. And, like, you know, eighty percent of the class hands up. And he goes,

he he's talking about his hedge fund and and blah, blah. We're all kind of like eating out the palm of his hand. And he's like, you know, who here would find it fun to work at a fun, like, ours and and do this. Like, make big bets for a living. And, like, you know, eighty percent of the class hands up. And he goes,

26:09

goes, okay. So look around. Here's eighty percent of the peep eighty percent of the class is raise their hand. And imagine if you all applied because somebody had asked him a question about risk, like, how much you know, should I should I

goes, okay. So look around. Here's eighty percent of the peep eighty percent of the class is raise their hand. And imagine if you all applied because somebody had asked him a question about risk, like, how much you know, should I should I

26:20

work this career ladder or should I try this thing that's, like, a little bit of a risk? And so he's explaining that he goes, look around. He goes,

work this career ladder or should I try this thing that's, like, a little bit of a risk? And so he's explaining that he goes, look around. He goes,

26:27

Imagine all of you applied to this job. What was your resume look like?

Imagine all of you applied to this job. What was your resume look like?

26:31

All of you would just give me a white piece of paper with black text, You put your little name at the top, and then you put Duke University,

All of you would just give me a white piece of paper with black text, You put your little name at the top, and then you put Duke University,

26:38

and you put your stupid GPA,

and you put your stupid GPA,

26:40

and then you put your internships, you put four internships, and leave make it sound like you're you changed the world in those internships.

and then you put your internships, you put four internships, and leave make it sound like you're you changed the world in those internships.

26:47

He goes, there is nothing that differentiates you. He goes, you have a degree. Great. That's table stakes. Like, you know, like, Oh, great. You went to a good school. Like, so what? So did everybody else that applies to this job? Because

He goes, there is nothing that differentiates you. He goes, you have a degree. Great. That's table stakes. Like, you know, like, Oh, great. You went to a good school. Like, so what? So did everybody else that applies to this job? Because

26:58

the only thing I can look at to even decide do I wanna meet this person is the bottom fifth of your resume, the very bottom, twenty percent, where it says other.

the only thing I can look at to even decide do I wanna meet this person is the bottom fifth of your resume, the very bottom, twenty percent, where it says other.

27:07

And that's your chance to say other stuff you're into, your interests, your or something you've done that's remarkable or or notable because that's the only way I'm gonna differentiate between all of you that are raising your hands right now because otherwise you're all students. You all did an internship. You all gotta three point whatever GPA. It doesn't matter.

And that's your chance to say other stuff you're into, your interests, your or something you've done that's remarkable or or notable because that's the only way I'm gonna differentiate between all of you that are raising your hands right now because otherwise you're all students. You all did an internship. You all gotta three point whatever GPA. It doesn't matter.

27:23

That you were on student council. Like, no one cares. And when he said he goes, so I would take the next three years, four years of your life after college. And I would go stuff that other column. Because either you're gonna make it big doing something cool, or even if all those fail, when you go to apply to a job like mine, I'm gonna have some reason to actually wanna talk to you. And that was one of the most pro I don't know, profound things, but, like, best pieces of career advice that I had ever heard. And actually changed my I went and started a goddamn sushi restaurant afterwards because I was like, that's part of my other. You know, like, either this works and I create the next Chipotle or It's a great story for my other section because he's right. Like, that ring that that that was the truth was told to me.

That you were on student council. Like, no one cares. And when he said he goes, so I would take the next three years, four years of your life after college. And I would go stuff that other column. Because either you're gonna make it big doing something cool, or even if all those fail, when you go to apply to a job like mine, I'm gonna have some reason to actually wanna talk to you. And that was one of the most pro I don't know, profound things, but, like, best pieces of career advice that I had ever heard. And actually changed my I went and started a goddamn sushi restaurant afterwards because I was like, that's part of my other. You know, like, either this works and I create the next Chipotle or It's a great story for my other section because he's right. Like, that ring that that that was the truth was told to me.

28:06

And the commonality between a lot of these folks, which I I think you have,

And the commonality between a lot of these folks, which I I think you have,

28:11

they played poker,

they played poker,

28:12

and they got really comfortable,

and they got really comfortable,

28:14

gambling. So so that was the other thing that stood out. He's looking around. And in class, everybody's got a laptop open. And he's looking around. I'm like, I could see. He's like counting or something. He's measuring something. And I asked him. I go, are you are you counting? What are you what are you doing? He goes, oh, I'm looking at how many of you guys have Max versus PCs.

gambling. So so that was the other thing that stood out. He's looking around. And in class, everybody's got a laptop open. And he's looking around. I'm like, I could see. He's like counting or something. He's measuring something. And I asked him. I go, are you are you counting? What are you what are you doing? He goes, oh, I'm looking at how many of you guys have Max versus PCs.

28:31

He goes, because my entire

He goes, because my entire

28:33

year right now is I'm gonna make a long short bet. I'm either gonna go long Microsoft and short Apple or I'm gonna go long Apple and short Microsoft.

year right now is I'm gonna make a long short bet. I'm either gonna go long Microsoft and short Apple or I'm gonna go long Apple and short Microsoft.

28:42

And he was like, I was like, what? I don't even know what I didn't even understand what he was talking about, like, a long short sort of spread trade. And he was like,

And he was like, I was like, what? I don't even know what I didn't even understand what he was talking about, like, a long short sort of spread trade. And he was like,

28:50

yeah. So, like, you know, my entire he's like, I'm gonna make a ten million dollar bet or I'm gonna make a whatever. He said some ridiculously big number. He goes, I just have to make one bet this year,

yeah. So, like, you know, my entire he's like, I'm gonna make a ten million dollar bet or I'm gonna make a whatever. He said some ridiculously big number. He goes, I just have to make one bet this year,

28:58

and I'm gonna bet ten or fifty million dollars on either Apple or Microsoft here. And so I'm just trying to understand, like, what are you guys using and why? Why do you why do you pick this?

and I'm gonna bet ten or fifty million dollars on either Apple or Microsoft here. And so I'm just trying to understand, like, what are you guys using and why? Why do you why do you pick this?

29:08

And I thought that was the coolest shit in the world. Like, That was, like, you know, he could've lit up a blunt in front of me, and I wouldn't have thought he was cooler than what he just said that his entire year was to figure out Should he be long Apple or Microsoft? And he was just gonna walk around the world trying to figure this out. He's gonna make a fifty million dollar bet on it. And I was like, That's so cool. That's incredible. And I'm sitting here playing, like, poker during class, you know, on the one two tables trying to make two hundred bucks. And this guy was, like, jambling at a whole another level on one concentrated

And I thought that was the coolest shit in the world. Like, That was, like, you know, he could've lit up a blunt in front of me, and I wouldn't have thought he was cooler than what he just said that his entire year was to figure out Should he be long Apple or Microsoft? And he was just gonna walk around the world trying to figure this out. He's gonna make a fifty million dollar bet on it. And I was like, That's so cool. That's incredible. And I'm sitting here playing, like, poker during class, you know, on the one two tables trying to make two hundred bucks. And this guy was, like, jambling at a whole another level on one concentrated

29:39

bet. That shit was, like, very attractive to me. I wonder,

bet. That shit was, like, very attractive to me. I wonder,

29:43

which one he picked.

which one he picked.

29:45

Hopefully, think He had told us at the time I had asked him. I was like, so which one he he's like, I think Apple because and he had said some reasoning because of a of Apple. It wasn't just like Apple because it's cool. It was something like he was looking in the education market to figure out, like, basically, our age cohort, what were we buying, what were schools, like, recommending. And then what was, like, the he had done I forgot exactly what he was doing, but he was, like, looking at basically, like,

Hopefully, think He had told us at the time I had asked him. I was like, so which one he he's like, I think Apple because and he had said some reasoning because of a of Apple. It wasn't just like Apple because it's cool. It was something like he was looking in the education market to figure out, like, basically, our age cohort, what were we buying, what were schools, like, recommending. And then what was, like, the he had done I forgot exactly what he was doing, but he was, like, looking at basically, like,

30:10

He thought that it was important to know what high schoolers and college kids and, like, young professionals were being told to buy and buying voluntarily, and if there was, like, some difference there said something. Now this is like fifteen years ago. I don't remember the exacts, but I remember it being Apple that he was leaning towards.

He thought that it was important to know what high schoolers and college kids and, like, young professionals were being told to buy and buying voluntarily, and if there was, like, some difference there said something. Now this is like fifteen years ago. I don't remember the exacts, but I remember it being Apple that he was leaning towards.

30:24

So that's my whole summary of hedge funds of,

So that's my whole summary of hedge funds of,

30:27

the forty hour work week,

the forty hour work week,

30:29

this stuff interests me. Henry Ford, by the way, came up with a lot of good stuff, invented Kingsford, charcoal,

this stuff interests me. Henry Ford, by the way, came up with a lot of good stuff, invented Kingsford, charcoal,

30:34

that was his doing.

that was his doing.

30:36

Obviously, for the assembly. He's like, yeah, I got a couple of side hustle.

Obviously, for the assembly. He's like, yeah, I got a couple of side hustle.

30:40

The, assembly line. The the guy is super fascinating.

The, assembly line. The the guy is super fascinating.

30:44

A very imperfect person did a lot of bad stuff too, but very interesting. What do you wanna do? Alright. So I saw something come come by that

A very imperfect person did a lot of bad stuff too, but very interesting. What do you wanna do? Alright. So I saw something come come by that

30:51

I think you'll find pretty fascinating. Have you heard about this company called law and crime?

I think you'll find pretty fascinating. Have you heard about this company called law and crime?

30:56

I saw they were acquired recently. They were acquired. And so this is a media company

I saw they were acquired recently. They were acquired. And so this is a media company

31:03

that does a combination of, like, true crime plus just coverage of trials.

that does a combination of, like, true crime plus just coverage of trials.

31:08

And media company started by this guy Dan Abrams, and they got acquired for a rumored nine figures. And I was like, wow, that's a pretty impressive

And media company started by this guy Dan Abrams, and they got acquired for a rumored nine figures. And I was like, wow, that's a pretty impressive

31:16

exit for, like, this kinda, like, crime, niche media thing.

exit for, like, this kinda, like, crime, niche media thing.

31:22

Do you know about this guy, Dan Abrams? He got a, like, a interesting backstory worry. No. What's he do? So he's basically pretty prolific with these, like, niche media sites. So two thousand and nine, he launches something called gossip cop. It's Celebrity gossip blog,

Do you know about this guy, Dan Abrams? He got a, like, a interesting backstory worry. No. What's he do? So he's basically pretty prolific with these, like, niche media sites. So two thousand and nine, he launches something called gossip cop. It's Celebrity gossip blog,

31:36

and,

and,

31:37

it gets to eight million monthly uniques. So he goes into Celebrity gossip. That's number one. I go to t m z dot com every day.

it gets to eight million monthly uniques. So he goes into Celebrity gossip. That's number one. I go to t m z dot com every day.

31:45

Home page?

Home page?

31:46

A homepage every single day. Every day. That's what that's on my list of things that I check every morning. There's part of your eight hour work day.

A homepage every single day. Every day. That's what that's on my list of things that I check every morning. There's part of your eight hour work day.

31:54

Well, you know, you got, like, the same news websites that you check. I just wanna see what's going I check knowing these loves us. But, anyways, this guy, so then he creates geekosystem.

Well, you know, you got, like, the same news websites that you check. I just wanna see what's going I check knowing these loves us. But, anyways, this guy, so then he creates geekosystem.

32:03

It was just a internet site for meme culture, launches that in twenty ten. He creates,

It was just a internet site for meme culture, launches that in twenty ten. He creates,

32:07

something called mediate, which is basically power rankings for media personalities. That one gets to fourteen million monthly unique still going today.

something called mediate, which is basically power rankings for media personalities. That one gets to fourteen million monthly unique still going today.

32:15

He launched something called Styleite, which is kinda like the same thing power rankings. But for designers, models, writers, like people in the style business,

He launched something called Styleite, which is kinda like the same thing power rankings. But for designers, models, writers, like people in the style business,

32:23

Holy shit. He wants sports grid, which is a sports news business that was acquired in twenty thirteen. So he's creating a bunch of these all in this period of, like, Two thousand and nine to two thousand and fifteen, roughly, he created all of those that I just mentioned.

Holy shit. He wants sports grid, which is a sports news business that was acquired in twenty thirteen. So he's creating a bunch of these all in this period of, like, Two thousand and nine to two thousand and fifteen, roughly, he created all of those that I just mentioned.

32:36

He created one more in two thousand twelve called Brazer. Which was basically personality, like, chef personalities.

He created one more in two thousand twelve called Brazer. Which was basically personality, like, chef personalities.

32:42

And, I'm like, this guy is, like, hey, that's just interesting, like, an interesting model. But, b, like, all of those are, like, the right niches. Like, there's, you know, missionary versus mercenary people. Like, he strikes me as somebody who's mercenary where he's like, oh,

And, I'm like, this guy is, like, hey, that's just interesting, like, an interesting model. But, b, like, all of those are, like, the right niches. Like, there's, you know, missionary versus mercenary people. Like, he strikes me as somebody who's mercenary where he's like, oh,

32:55

these, like, these idiots care about, like, you know, celebrity chefs. Alright. Here you go. I'm gonna tell you every goddamn thing you need to know, news information,

these, like, these idiots care about, like, you know, celebrity chefs. Alright. Here you go. I'm gonna tell you every goddamn thing you need to know, news information,

33:04

you know, stories about these celebrity chefs. Oh, these people love,

you know, stories about these celebrity chefs. Oh, these people love,

33:09

you know, whatever whatever it is, style, you know, media personalities or style or celebrity gossip. Great. I'm gonna create I'm gonna go fulfill demand. I got thirsty customers. I'll go open up lemonade stands right next to them. That's the that's the style of entrepreneurship that I get out of this guy. And if you Google this guy and you click images, most people will recognize him. Do you recognize him? I I he's on MSNBC. He's on TV all the time. Yeah. Exactly. He he's, like, really good looking. He's got a great voice. He's always commenting on, like, like, one another guilty pleasure. I watch cops all the time. I freaking love cops. That's my favorite show.

you know, whatever whatever it is, style, you know, media personalities or style or celebrity gossip. Great. I'm gonna create I'm gonna go fulfill demand. I got thirsty customers. I'll go open up lemonade stands right next to them. That's the that's the style of entrepreneurship that I get out of this guy. And if you Google this guy and you click images, most people will recognize him. Do you recognize him? I I he's on MSNBC. He's on TV all the time. Yeah. Exactly. He he's, like, really good looking. He's got a great voice. He's always commenting on, like, like, one another guilty pleasure. I watch cops all the time. I freaking love cops. That's my favorite show.

33:41

And he and they're they have, like, spin off called live PD. He's always on there saying like, oh, what she did? She's about to get charged with x, y, and z. Right. So this guy is basically a media entrepreneur and he's on, yeah, like, all the all the things that you mentioned.

And he and they're they have, like, spin off called live PD. He's always on there saying like, oh, what she did? She's about to get charged with x, y, and z. Right. So this guy is basically a media entrepreneur and he's on, yeah, like, all the all the things that you mentioned.

33:54

He,

He,

33:56

so Abrams's media, I guess, is the thing that's, like, launching all the stuff. One of the things he launches. So two thousand and sixteen, he launches law and crime. That's the one he just sold. It's basically it starts, you know, legal news website

so Abrams's media, I guess, is the thing that's, like, launching all the stuff. One of the things he launches. So two thousand and sixteen, he launches law and crime. That's the one he just sold. It's basically it starts, you know, legal news website

34:09

Then it's live streaming trials.

Then it's live streaming trials.

34:11

And then they have a cable show. They have a OTT show. They have a YouTube channel. They got five million subscribers on YouTube. They cover every trial because, like, I'm, like, pretty knee deep in this SBF trial right now. Can't look away from the car wreck. You know, like, rarely does news get me, but this one,

And then they have a cable show. They have a OTT show. They have a YouTube channel. They got five million subscribers on YouTube. They cover every trial because, like, I'm, like, pretty knee deep in this SBF trial right now. Can't look away from the car wreck. You know, like, rarely does news get me, but this one,

34:26

I mean, I'm I'm I'm embraced in its arms. He's lapping it up. Yeah. I know. I'm just fully engulfed by this SPF trial. And so,

I mean, I'm I'm I'm embraced in its arms. He's lapping it up. Yeah. I know. I'm just fully engulfed by this SPF trial. And so,

34:36

Definitely, there's like this, like, part of our brains that's just wired to tune into the stuff. Like, I watched the depth verse heard Netflix show. I don't know if you saw that one really, really well done, like, the Netflix documentary on, the Johnny Depp trial.

Definitely, there's like this, like, part of our brains that's just wired to tune into the stuff. Like, I watched the depth verse heard Netflix show. I don't know if you saw that one really, really well done, like, the Netflix documentary on, the Johnny Depp trial.

34:49

Yeah. And,

Yeah. And,

34:50

you can't I mean, you you watch these things and you just get fully engrossed in them. So he, you know, he sees that, creates this. And they raised five million bucks and have reportedly have sold for nine figures over a hundred million dollars. I don't know if that's exactly true.

you can't I mean, you you watch these things and you just get fully engrossed in them. So he, you know, he sees that, creates this. And they raised five million bucks and have reportedly have sold for nine figures over a hundred million dollars. I don't know if that's exactly true.

35:03

Three years ago, the reported revenue was like thirteen million top line. And so, you know, who knows where where it landed at? Maybe it's at twenty, twenty five million now. I'm not exactly sure, but amazing exit and kind of amazing entrepreneurial career. He also, by the way, launched during the time he was launching the true crime, a long crime, He launched a Christian TV streaming service called Ambo TV, which I bet is also,

Three years ago, the reported revenue was like thirteen million top line. And so, you know, who knows where where it landed at? Maybe it's at twenty, twenty five million now. I'm not exactly sure, but amazing exit and kind of amazing entrepreneurial career. He also, by the way, launched during the time he was launching the true crime, a long crime, He launched a Christian TV streaming service called Ambo TV, which I bet is also,

35:24

like, that's a I love that niche, you know, the Which is crazy. I mean, the guy's not Christian,

like, that's a I love that niche, you know, the Which is crazy. I mean, the guy's not Christian,

35:30

at all.

at all.

35:31

So that that's very I said, do you know Dan?

So that that's very I said, do you know Dan?

35:34

You didn't know the guy. You're like, he's not Christian.

You didn't know the guy. You're like, he's not Christian.

35:37

Well, Abraham's is a Jewish last name, and I'm looking at his,

Well, Abraham's is a Jewish last name, and I'm looking at his,

35:41

I'm looking at his Wikipedia and he's he's it says he was raised in a Jewish family. It is his father has a Wikipedia page and Fair enough. Okay. Okay. Okay. You win. So anytime I'm looking point point point point, point, Sam.

I'm looking at his Wikipedia and he's he's it says he was raised in a Jewish family. It is his father has a Wikipedia page and Fair enough. Okay. Okay. Okay. You win. So anytime I'm looking point point point point, point, Sam.

35:52

Alright. So this is so what's the what's the Christian show?

Alright. So this is so what's the what's the Christian show?

35:55

Go to ambo T. V. Dot com. And so they're just live streaming, like, you know,

Go to ambo T. V. Dot com. And so they're just live streaming, like, you know,

36:01

I don't know. Good old, Chris entertainment.

I don't know. Good old, Chris entertainment.

36:03

I don't I don't know what that is. It's not something that I normally watch, but, like, you can watch basically, like, live biblical literacy. You can watch, like, you know, inside one of these churches, the Christ in evangelical,

I don't I don't know what that is. It's not something that I normally watch, but, like, you can watch basically, like, live biblical literacy. You can watch, like, you know, inside one of these churches, the Christ in evangelical,

36:15

like, church live. You can view past sermons. You can watch interviews and shows

like, church live. You can view past sermons. You can watch interviews and shows

36:19

And, this thing doesn't seem to have a ton of traffic on here, but let me look at the YouTube channel. I bet the YouTube channels.

And, this thing doesn't seem to have a ton of traffic on here, but let me look at the YouTube channel. I bet the YouTube channels.

36:25

It's pretty small too. So that this Christian SIPing, it looks like it hasn't hasn't quite taken off, yet, but I I do like this niche. I feel like this could be could be successful as well.

It's pretty small too. So that this Christian SIPing, it looks like it hasn't hasn't quite taken off, yet, but I I do like this niche. I feel like this could be could be successful as well.

36:34

And then he has another one called Whiskey Raiders, a site that uses a proprietary algorithm to rate whiskeys on a scale of fifty to a hundred. Yeah.

And then he has another one called Whiskey Raiders, a site that uses a proprietary algorithm to rate whiskeys on a scale of fifty to a hundred. Yeah.

36:43

I mean, this guy just goes into passion niches. Right? So it's like passionate niche. Let me create it. Right? Like, this is what Ramon did with the soap opera blog. It's like, Wow. You built and sold a soap opera blog for nine million dollars. That's, like, incredible. How'd you even have this idea? And he was like, well, I created Facebook pages.

I mean, this guy just goes into passion niches. Right? So it's like passionate niche. Let me create it. Right? Like, this is what Ramon did with the soap opera blog. It's like, Wow. You built and sold a soap opera blog for nine million dollars. That's, like, incredible. How'd you even have this idea? And he was like, well, I created Facebook pages.

37:00

Around a bunch of niche topics, wrestling,

Around a bunch of niche topics, wrestling,

37:02

politics,

politics,

37:04

soap operas and others. And I saw that the fan page for the the soap operas was like popping off. It was like the second or third most most popular one. And so then he created a blogger. He never seen a soap opera in his and created a blog where they would write spoilers and and recaps and stories about these soap operas

soap operas and others. And I saw that the fan page for the the soap operas was like popping off. It was like the second or third most most popular one. And so then he created a blogger. He never seen a soap opera in his and created a blog where they would write spoilers and and recaps and stories about these soap operas

37:21

and built up so much traffic that he was able to sell it for almost ten million dollars without ever raising any money. It was incredible.

and built up so much traffic that he was able to sell it for almost ten million dollars without ever raising any money. It was incredible.

37:26

By the way, the the what this guy is doing,

By the way, the the what this guy is doing,

37:29

Abrams, Dan Abrams,

Abrams, Dan Abrams,

37:31

how he's launched he's prolifically launching new stuff.

how he's launched he's prolifically launching new stuff.

37:34

I think

I think

37:36

media

media

37:37

is the best industry if your intention is to launch a lot of things.

is the best industry if your intention is to launch a lot of things.

37:42

Someone kinda described it once where they told me that a media company is basically,

Someone kinda described it once where they told me that a media company is basically,

37:46

a collection of different projects all under one brand, whereas a software company typically is one product with added features, and you're just scaling it.

a collection of different projects all under one brand, whereas a software company typically is one product with added features, and you're just scaling it.

37:55

The interesting thing about media is when you understand what types of things, grabs people, attentions,

The interesting thing about media is when you understand what types of things, grabs people, attentions,

38:02

attention, and how to look at certain numbers to understand where there's an underserved nerd,

attention, and how to look at certain numbers to understand where there's an underserved nerd,

38:07

un underserved need and nerd.

un underserved need and nerd.

38:10

And nerd. Yeah.

And nerd. Yeah.

38:11

You can basically do that for

You can basically do that for

38:13

any

any

38:14

niche that, like, you're like, it it there's a it's a formula.

niche that, like, you're like, it it there's a it's a formula.

38:18

A lot different than software.

A lot different than software.

38:21

It's a lot like that too. You noticed that some somebody who knocks it out of the park with one e commerce thing

It's a lot like that too. You noticed that some somebody who knocks it out of the park with one e commerce thing

38:27

They know that they could do this five times over. It's just to have the energy and the the desire to create an organization that's gonna launch multiple brands versus the one. But it's so applicable to do exactly what you did for one. But there's a problem with e commerce, which is your cash is tied up in inventory. With media, you typically have more operating cash flow. And so you have more money to deploy to some of these resources.

They know that they could do this five times over. It's just to have the energy and the the desire to create an organization that's gonna launch multiple brands versus the one. But it's so applicable to do exactly what you did for one. But there's a problem with e commerce, which is your cash is tied up in inventory. With media, you typically have more operating cash flow. And so you have more money to deploy to some of these resources.

38:50

How many how much of your

How many how much of your

38:53

how much of your business so you have a business and an e commerce business? How much of the money is in inventory? A a significant amount without saying, like, particular numbers be thirty percent in inventory.

how much of your business so you have a business and an e commerce business? How much of the money is in inventory? A a significant amount without saying, like, particular numbers be thirty percent in inventory.

39:04

So not not not That's not horrible. That's not that's not horrible. A lot of times it's worse, so I would imagine. It it can you can go wrong if you if you mess up, if you miss forecast or you get a bunch of dead stock slow moving inventory. Yeah. You can that can stockpile real quickly and can become a big issue for you. But, also, it depends how you run it. So in the same way that there's a hundred people now trying to create newsletter businesses,

So not not not That's not horrible. That's not that's not horrible. A lot of times it's worse, so I would imagine. It it can you can go wrong if you if you mess up, if you miss forecast or you get a bunch of dead stock slow moving inventory. Yeah. You can that can stockpile real quickly and can become a big issue for you. But, also, it depends how you run it. So in the same way that there's a hundred people now trying to create newsletter businesses,

39:26

And those hundred are not gonna have the same success that you did with the hustle or that I had with milk road. And why is that? Right? Because it's how you operate and the same thing with e commerce. You know, with e commerce, if you set up the right payment terms with your factory, like, for example, like, for us, we sell inventory before we owe we have to pay money for it. Yeah. So that's great.

And those hundred are not gonna have the same success that you did with the hustle or that I had with milk road. And why is that? Right? Because it's how you operate and the same thing with e commerce. You know, with e commerce, if you set up the right payment terms with your factory, like, for example, like, for us, we sell inventory before we owe we have to pay money for it. Yeah. So that's great.

39:45

Right, negative cash conversion. So once you get set up like that, then you're, you know, you you're an idiot. If you're you're losing money or you're tying up too much money in inventory, right, because that's not necessary.

Right, negative cash conversion. So once you get set up like that, then you're, you know, you you're an idiot. If you're you're losing money or you're tying up too much money in inventory, right, because that's not necessary.

39:57

If you run it well, it's when you make a mistake or thing or the market turns that, you know, you you can get in trouble. Tell me about this guy, Tyler, and what his post said. I I I think I know who he is. Yeah. So I don't know, to tell him about this guy. This guy Tyler Hodge. I've seen him on Twitter. He he's around on on Twitter, but he wrote a great blog post that I I I loved. I don't know if you saw this, but it was about Sardines.

If you run it well, it's when you make a mistake or thing or the market turns that, you know, you you can get in trouble. Tell me about this guy, Tyler, and what his post said. I I I think I know who he is. Yeah. So I don't know, to tell him about this guy. This guy Tyler Hodge. I've seen him on Twitter. He he's around on on Twitter, but he wrote a great blog post that I I I loved. I don't know if you saw this, but it was about Sardines.

40:19

Did you see, this blog post about Sardines? So I didn't see it, but I'm pulling it up now. By the way, the blog post it's gonna make a comeback, I think. Dude, I'm with you. I read this one post, and I was like,

Did you see, this blog post about Sardines? So I didn't see it, but I'm pulling it up now. By the way, the blog post it's gonna make a comeback, I think. Dude, I'm with you. I read this one post, and I was like,

40:29

I don't know who this Tyler guy is, but I like him. I was like, I like him, and I respect him.

I don't know who this Tyler guy is, but I like him. I was like, I like him, and I respect him.

40:34

One one blog post could do that for you. It's very hard for that to happen in, like,

One one blog post could do that for you. It's very hard for that to happen in, like,

40:39

you know, a single tweet. Or an Instagram story or,

you know, a single tweet. Or an Instagram story or,

40:43

a a TikTok short. Right? Like, it's, like, it takes a little bit more. One blog post. You need more time. Yeah. Exactly. Think podcasts work well with it, but, podcasts, YouTube videos, if they're longer worked out. It's basically the amount of, time that you taken from someone. Like, that's how invested. He writes supposedly. He's like, he's like, I'm reading this book, margin of safety. And in it, he writes about this, famous bubble that happened. That you probably haven't heard of. I guess not that famous, but there was a bubble that happened that you probably are not aware of, which was the sardine bubble in Southern California. So I'm gonna read it out for you here. You guys There's an old story about a market craze and Sardine trading, where,

a a TikTok short. Right? Like, it's, like, it takes a little bit more. One blog post. You need more time. Yeah. Exactly. Think podcasts work well with it, but, podcasts, YouTube videos, if they're longer worked out. It's basically the amount of, time that you taken from someone. Like, that's how invested. He writes supposedly. He's like, he's like, I'm reading this book, margin of safety. And in it, he writes about this, famous bubble that happened. That you probably haven't heard of. I guess not that famous, but there was a bubble that happened that you probably are not aware of, which was the sardine bubble in Southern California. So I'm gonna read it out for you here. You guys There's an old story about a market craze and Sardine trading, where,

41:19

Sardines disappeared from their waters in Monterey. And so the commodity traders started bidding up the price of a can of sardines, the price of of one can of sardines soared.

Sardines disappeared from their waters in Monterey. And so the commodity traders started bidding up the price of a can of sardines, the price of of one can of sardines soared.

41:28

And everybody's buying up these cans of sardines. They're making a bunch of money flipping them, And one day a buyer decides, you know what? I'm gonna treat myself to I'm gonna take one of these expensive cans of sardines. I'm gonna pop it open, and I'm gonna enjoy. He pops it open and immediately just becomes sick. He's vomiting. And he's like, oh, he's like, tells the seller. He's like, hey, man. I bought these expensive Sardines for you. These are no good. And the seller's like, you don't understand. These These are not eating sardines. These are trading sardines.

And everybody's buying up these cans of sardines. They're making a bunch of money flipping them, And one day a buyer decides, you know what? I'm gonna treat myself to I'm gonna take one of these expensive cans of sardines. I'm gonna pop it open, and I'm gonna enjoy. He pops it open and immediately just becomes sick. He's vomiting. And he's like, oh, he's like, tells the seller. He's like, hey, man. I bought these expensive Sardines for you. These are no good. And the seller's like, you don't understand. These These are not eating sardines. These are trading sardines.

41:53

And he's like, so then Tyler draws the point. He's like, it feels like this is what's happened in the last few years. With, like, tech company valuations. He's like, there was a bun like, there was a game to be played. You would invest in the seed round and then the a. And you're, you know, this company is trying to use that money to grow. It's not really proper don't worry about that. Right? We're losing money, but it's it's all good. We're growing, and we got this narrative. And the narrative just needed to be sold to the next round investor. The b round. Well, you know, this either, the better analogy for this is crypto.

And he's like, so then Tyler draws the point. He's like, it feels like this is what's happened in the last few years. With, like, tech company valuations. He's like, there was a bun like, there was a game to be played. You would invest in the seed round and then the a. And you're, you know, this company is trying to use that money to grow. It's not really proper don't worry about that. Right? We're losing money, but it's it's all good. We're growing, and we got this narrative. And the narrative just needed to be sold to the next round investor. The b round. Well, you know, this either, the better analogy for this is crypto.

42:20

Well,

Well,

42:21

I don't think it's quite there is some in crypto. Right? But, like, there's the n f t stuff in crypto, but the difference is

I don't think it's quite there is some in crypto. Right? But, like, there's the n f t stuff in crypto, but the difference is

42:27

to get to the point of what he's saying. So crypto is a different type of asset. Right? Crypto is not a, a productive asset. It's not a cash flowing asset. So what he's talking about, he's like, you would get these businesses that would go later and later stage.

to get to the point of what he's saying. So crypto is a different type of asset. Right? Crypto is not a, a productive asset. It's not a cash flowing asset. So what he's talking about, he's like, you would get these businesses that would go later and later stage.

42:39

And,

And,

42:41

each round is getting bigger and bigger because everybody is basically as greater full theory. Right? They're they're thinking, well, I don't care if this business actually

each round is getting bigger and bigger because everybody is basically as greater full theory. Right? They're they're thinking, well, I don't care if this business actually

42:48

generates a lot of free cash flow. I can just sell it to the next to the next buyer and they would do that. They would get to the point where it goes public.

generates a lot of free cash flow. I can just sell it to the next to the next buyer and they would do that. They would get to the point where it goes public.

42:54

But now the music stopped, and these companies have to be you know, they're opening up the Kansas sardines and realizing that, oh, shit. These were not eating sardines. These are trading sardines. And so you see a company like Hopin

But now the music stopped, and these companies have to be you know, they're opening up the Kansas sardines and realizing that, oh, shit. These were not eating sardines. These are trading sardines. And so you see a company like Hopin

43:06

go from four billion dollar valuation or two billion dollar valuation, whatever it was, to I think it's sold for, like, ten million bucks or twenty million bucks the other day. Like, you know,

go from four billion dollar valuation or two billion dollar valuation, whatever it was, to I think it's sold for, like, ten million bucks or twenty million bucks the other day. Like, you know,

43:15

it's down whatever a hundred x from from its, you know, peak valuation just two years ago.

it's down whatever a hundred x from from its, you know, peak valuation just two years ago.

43:21

And, there's another company called Better, which is like a a mortgage company that's also, like, you know, about to go bankrupt after a billion dollar evaluation. And this is gonna keep happening. You're gonna see a bunch of you know, the sort of dead unicorns. And in crypto, there was a a a version of this, like NFTs, for example.

And, there's another company called Better, which is like a a mortgage company that's also, like, you know, about to go bankrupt after a billion dollar evaluation. And this is gonna keep happening. You're gonna see a bunch of you know, the sort of dead unicorns. And in crypto, there was a a a version of this, like NFTs, for example.

43:36

Are you buying this because you love the art? Are you buying this because you think price is gonna go up. And up for ninety five percent of people, ninety nine percent of people, it was, I'm buying this as the price is gonna go up. That works until the price stops going up. And then at that point, we all are sitting here holding these, like, you know,

Are you buying this because you love the art? Are you buying this because you think price is gonna go up. And up for ninety five percent of people, ninety nine percent of people, it was, I'm buying this as the price is gonna go up. That works until the price stops going up. And then at that point, we all are sitting here holding these, like, you know,

43:50

these trading startings that we don't wanna eat.

these trading startings that we don't wanna eat.

43:53

The difference, of course, is that, and the point that Tyler's making is that What's in Vogue now is eating sardines.

The difference, of course, is that, and the point that Tyler's making is that What's in Vogue now is eating sardines.

44:00

Companies where if you couldn't sell it to the next, but if you can't exit, if you can't IPO can't go raise the next round, well, doesn't matter. Just pop it open and eat it. Right? Doesn't matter. It's the company has profits. It has cash flow. So we can we don't need to flip this to the next person. It produces enough cash flow. And, you know, this sounds very basic to a lot of people, like,

Companies where if you couldn't sell it to the next, but if you can't exit, if you can't IPO can't go raise the next round, well, doesn't matter. Just pop it open and eat it. Right? Doesn't matter. It's the company has profits. It has cash flow. So we can we don't need to flip this to the next person. It produces enough cash flow. And, you know, this sounds very basic to a lot of people, like,

44:22

the whole idea of crypto is triggering to them or the idea of venture capital and these unprofitable tech companies that raise money at these crazy valuations. That's just triggering to them.

the whole idea of crypto is triggering to them or the idea of venture capital and these unprofitable tech companies that raise money at these crazy valuations. That's just triggering to them.

44:33

And so, you know, for the cash flow, kings out there, this is like, you know, today is your day. Now is your era. You're you're you are now kinda like king of the hill at the moment. And I wanted to bring this up with you because I feel like you have really never gotten into any of these trading games.

And so, you know, for the cash flow, kings out there, this is like, you know, today is your day. Now is your era. You're you're you are now kinda like king of the hill at the moment. And I wanted to bring this up with you because I feel like you have really never gotten into any of these trading games.

44:48

I have never seen you get swept up in angel investing where you're like, yeah.

I have never seen you get swept up in angel investing where you're like, yeah.

44:53

This this company today, it's worth ten million, even though it's got no product and no revenue.

This this company today, it's worth ten million, even though it's got no product and no revenue.

44:58

But it doesn't matter because they'll raise an a at fifty million. I'll be marked up five x. And then it will raise a b at a hundred twenty million. I'll be marked up ten x, whatever. I've never seen you fall into that one or crypto, really any of these trading games, you seem to be a guy who always goes into eating Sardiance games, whereas

But it doesn't matter because they'll raise an a at fifty million. I'll be marked up five x. And then it will raise a b at a hundred twenty million. I'll be marked up ten x, whatever. I've never seen you fall into that one or crypto, really any of these trading games, you seem to be a guy who always goes into eating Sardiance games, whereas

45:14

I've dabbled in both and made money and lost money and and sort of both

I've dabbled in both and made money and lost money and and sort of both

45:18

I'm curious what your reaction is to this.

I'm curious what your reaction is to this.

45:21

Yeah. So, uh-uh, a bunch. The first thing is the reason I've never got into that is I think people default being too optimistic

Yeah. So, uh-uh, a bunch. The first thing is the reason I've never got into that is I think people default being too optimistic

45:27

about particular businesses.

about particular businesses.

45:29

You know, what's interesting is, one of the very one of the very first signs

You know, what's interesting is, one of the very one of the very first signs

45:34

or pieces of writing that humans have ever discovered. We're talking cavemen era.

or pieces of writing that humans have ever discovered. We're talking cavemen era.

45:39

They wrote on the on the

They wrote on the on the

45:41

they wrote on the cave that said, the generation after them is lazy,

they wrote on the cave that said, the generation after them is lazy,

45:45

and they just don't care. And that's like a common theme. Every generation says the lay the one for them is lazy. They just don't care that And their music sucks. Yeah. And their music sucks. It's like the same thing over and over again. And you said something about

and they just don't care. And that's like a common theme. Every generation says the lay the one for them is lazy. They just don't care that And their music sucks. Yeah. And their music sucks. It's like the same thing over and over again. And you said something about

45:57

We're caught up in this at the moment.

We're caught up in this at the moment.

45:59

My philosophy is we have always been caught up in that. Human nature doesn't change. We have been the same for almost forever, and the way that we act today is the way we have always reacted. And so when I see new things, I think This isn't new. This has been here at many, many, many, many times, and my goal is to find out what has been here for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and what or thousands of years and that is where I choose to place my time in.

My philosophy is we have always been caught up in that. Human nature doesn't change. We have been the same for almost forever, and the way that we act today is the way we have always reacted. And so when I see new things, I think This isn't new. This has been here at many, many, many, many times, and my goal is to find out what has been here for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and what or thousands of years and that is where I choose to place my time in.

46:25

For example, in this blog post,

For example, in this blog post,

46:28

she he quotes Sarah Gao, who says, who's, like, a famous investor, and apparently,

she he quotes Sarah Gao, who says, who's, like, a famous investor, and apparently,

46:32

one of her portfolio companies said, Sarah, tell all the founders their job is to generate cash flow. Because no one has ever told me that.

one of her portfolio companies said, Sarah, tell all the founders their job is to generate cash flow. Because no one has ever told me that.

46:40

And that's crazy, but that's a common thing. Yeah. And I was I'm taking this. Do you know how to read a balance sheet or cash flow statement or pro P and L?

And that's crazy, but that's a common thing. Yeah. And I was I'm taking this. Do you know how to read a balance sheet or cash flow statement or pro P and L?

46:48

Yes. But, you know, of course, there's there's levels to that game.

Yes. But, you know, of course, there's there's levels to that game.

46:51

So I I I I don't really know how to read it. And so I'm taking a, my intent to take a course at, like, I wanna do, like, one of the executive MBA classes, like, one of these fancy ones. But before I even did this, I bought this course called the four day MBA where this guy's teaching me how to read a balance sheet. And his whole course is summarized in a very simple way. And it's, basically, the point of cash is to generate

So I I I I don't really know how to read it. And so I'm taking a, my intent to take a course at, like, I wanna do, like, one of the executive MBA classes, like, one of these fancy ones. But before I even did this, I bought this course called the four day MBA where this guy's teaching me how to read a balance sheet. And his whole course is summarized in a very simple way. And it's, basically, the point of cash is to generate

47:14

or just to buy,

or just to buy,

47:15

buy stuff that you can then sell to create profit, which that profit can turn into cash flow.

buy stuff that you can then sell to create profit, which that profit can turn into cash flow.

47:21

And a lot of times,

And a lot of times,

47:23

people focus on profit, but profit is a is a hypothesis.

people focus on profit, but profit is a is a hypothesis.

47:27

Cash is a fact.

Cash is a fact.

47:29

And it took me to take that course to realize and get back to basics of, like, wait, everything is about creating cash flow. Yeah. And he uses this wonderful example of Enron. He's like, check this out.

And it took me to take that course to realize and get back to basics of, like, wait, everything is about creating cash flow. Yeah. And he uses this wonderful example of Enron. He's like, check this out.

47:38

Look at this balance sheet. They're generating lots of profit, lots of profit, Goldman, Morgan Stanley. They're all saying, buy this company, buy this company. They're stocks great. Look at P and L. The P and L will show you

Look at this balance sheet. They're generating lots of profit, lots of profit, Goldman, Morgan Stanley. They're all saying, buy this company, buy this company. They're stocks great. Look at P and L. The P and L will show you

47:49

No. That's the issue. Is profit isn't important. Operating cash flow is. On paper, they were making lots of profit. The problem is is that it was all they weren't, like, they they weren't actually making profit,

No. That's the issue. Is profit isn't important. Operating cash flow is. On paper, they were making lots of profit. The problem is is that it was all they weren't, like, they they weren't actually making profit,

48:01

or they were rather, but they weren't creating operating cash flow. The vast majority of their cash came from financing activities, aka raising more money. And this is why there's a book called the smartest guys in the room because apparently, everyone was like, oh, they'll be fine. They're the smartest guys in the room. And you see these trends today with crypto

or they were rather, but they weren't creating operating cash flow. The vast majority of their cash came from financing activities, aka raising more money. And this is why there's a book called the smartest guys in the room because apparently, everyone was like, oh, they'll be fine. They're the smartest guys in the room. And you see these trends today with crypto

48:18

with web three now with AI before that social media where the smartest guys in the room say, it's okay that they're not making profit. It's okay that they're not making cash. It's okay that this evaluation is huge, but that's, like, just a common problem that we see over and over and over again. And so I get suspicious of all of those things because I read a lot of history and you see patterns. And this is a very common thing. We have thought this way from the beginning. Yeah. But the the story of the tech industry, like, the story of all the the startup industry, Silicon Valley is that that actually was correct.

with web three now with AI before that social media where the smartest guys in the room say, it's okay that they're not making profit. It's okay that they're not making cash. It's okay that this evaluation is huge, but that's, like, just a common problem that we see over and over and over again. And so I get suspicious of all of those things because I read a lot of history and you see patterns. And this is a very common thing. We have thought this way from the beginning. Yeah. But the the story of the tech industry, like, the story of all the the startup industry, Silicon Valley is that that actually was correct.

48:48

Like, you're saying it like,

Like, you're saying it like,

48:50

what social media, the story was these companies,

what social media, the story was these companies,

48:54

you know, it's But most fail. Most fail. Of course. Of course. Some work. But you that's what it I think what it what it is, the real the real lesson is you have to know what game you're playing. So, for example,

you know, it's But most fail. Most fail. Of course. Of course. Some work. But you that's what it I think what it what it is, the real the real lesson is you have to know what game you're playing. So, for example,

49:05

Correct. I agree. When you're playing the Silicon Valley game, the Silicon Valley game is

Correct. I agree. When you're playing the Silicon Valley game, the Silicon Valley game is

49:10

most of these companies are gonna fail or be sort of, inconsequential

most of these companies are gonna fail or be sort of, inconsequential

49:14

your returns.

your returns.

49:15

The only thing that matters when you're

The only thing that matters when you're

49:17

doing, you know, venture capital or or doing tech investing is every year, there's like twenty, maybe thirty companies That matter? Did you get into them? How many of those did you get into? Is it zero? Is it one? Is it two? Is it three? The issue though is that

doing, you know, venture capital or or doing tech investing is every year, there's like twenty, maybe thirty companies That matter? Did you get into them? How many of those did you get into? Is it zero? Is it one? Is it two? Is it three? The issue though is that

49:31

People put too large of a percentage of their net worth into these things. That's where it becomes a huge problem, and a lot of people do that. I I don't think that's true. I think most people are not even invested in startups. The average person is not interested in like zero. Get startups out of this example. You could say crypto. You could I mean, a lot of people have gone grow because of it.

People put too large of a percentage of their net worth into these things. That's where it becomes a huge problem, and a lot of people do that. I I don't think that's true. I think most people are not even invested in startups. The average person is not interested in like zero. Get startups out of this example. You could say crypto. You could I mean, a lot of people have gone grow because of it.

49:50

And at the the underlying asset still does not have, like, a repeatable way to deliver cash flows. And that is That's a that's the difference. You know,

And at the the underlying asset still does not have, like, a repeatable way to deliver cash flows. And that is That's a that's the difference. You know,

49:59

there are different types of assets. So for example,

there are different types of assets. So for example,

50:03

you could buy a watch or you could buy art. They're never gonna produce cash flow.

you could buy a watch or you could buy art. They're never gonna produce cash flow.

50:06

You could buy gold bars. They're never gonna produce cash flow. There's no Oh, are definitely certain types of our certain rolex rolexes have grown. No. No. They're not they're non productive. Well, but They're collectibles, but there is a history

You could buy gold bars. They're never gonna produce cash flow. There's no Oh, are definitely certain types of our certain rolex rolexes have grown. No. No. They're not they're non productive. Well, but They're collectibles, but there is a history

50:18

of,

of,

50:19

hundreds of a hundred years, fifty years of repeat of of people wanting to purchase it. Of course. Of course. Not as much that Not not as much with crypto. Yeah. And of course, and of course that the of of course, you don't get the same same upside because It's sort of, you know, that game is played out that it's more efficient market versus crypto collectibles came out. So here's a new fir new version of collectibles.

hundreds of a hundred years, fifty years of repeat of of people wanting to purchase it. Of course. Of course. Not as much that Not not as much with crypto. Yeah. And of course, and of course that the of of course, you don't get the same same upside because It's sort of, you know, that game is played out that it's more efficient market versus crypto collectibles came out. So here's a new fir new version of collectibles.

50:38

And in this one, you could be Jack butcher, and you could make millions and millions of dollars because you understood that crypto collectibles are gonna be a thing. Or you could have come in at the wrong time or put the wrong percentage. And of course, you could make money and lose money in any of these. But the idea is you have to know a game you're playing. If you're playing the game of crypto or investing in gold or investing in art or investing in watches. You are not playing the same game as somebody who's investing in cash flowing businesses. If you're investing in startups, you're not playing the same game as somebody's investing in cash flow businesses. So I think the important thing is you have to know which gamer you've been playing. And then what are the rules and topology of that game? So for example, with venture investing,

And in this one, you could be Jack butcher, and you could make millions and millions of dollars because you understood that crypto collectibles are gonna be a thing. Or you could have come in at the wrong time or put the wrong percentage. And of course, you could make money and lose money in any of these. But the idea is you have to know a game you're playing. If you're playing the game of crypto or investing in gold or investing in art or investing in watches. You are not playing the same game as somebody who's investing in cash flowing businesses. If you're investing in startups, you're not playing the same game as somebody's investing in cash flow businesses. So I think the important thing is you have to know which gamer you've been playing. And then what are the rules and topology of that game? So for example, with venture investing,

51:15

the mindset is actually

the mindset is actually

51:17

I'm gonna lose money eight out of ten times here.

I'm gonna lose money eight out of ten times here.

51:20

And then if you go read Warren Buffett, you're like, oh, this guy's the greatest investor of all time. Let me learn something about that that I can apply to Angel investing. And Warren Buffett's first rule is, don't lose money. His second rule, don't forget the rule number one. If you use Warren Buffett's rule, you could never be Peter teal. If you use Peter Teal's rules, you could never be Warren Buffett. Right? Like, you know, these are they're different games and you you have to know the rules of that game. In order to play it. What I think is interesting is that at different times, the at different times, each game might have a sort of like hot season. There's a there's a there is a

And then if you go read Warren Buffett, you're like, oh, this guy's the greatest investor of all time. Let me learn something about that that I can apply to Angel investing. And Warren Buffett's first rule is, don't lose money. His second rule, don't forget the rule number one. If you use Warren Buffett's rule, you could never be Peter teal. If you use Peter Teal's rules, you could never be Warren Buffett. Right? Like, you know, these are they're different games and you you have to know the rules of that game. In order to play it. What I think is interesting is that at different times, the at different times, each game might have a sort of like hot season. There's a there's a there is a

51:49

There are these like windows where certain games are more ripe or more,

There are these like windows where certain games are more ripe or more,

51:54

more attractive, more lucrative to play. But my point is US, why I don't do this type of stuff is I get nervous about many of those games because I believe that, for example, before startups in the early nineteen hundreds, there was car companies You know how many car companies existed in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties?

more attractive, more lucrative to play. But my point is US, why I don't do this type of stuff is I get nervous about many of those games because I believe that, for example, before startups in the early nineteen hundreds, there was car companies You know how many car companies existed in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties?

52:12

Tons.

Tons.

52:13

Most all of them went bankrupt except for like five. There was tons of car companies, and it was the exact same thing as tech companies today.

Most all of them went bankrupt except for like five. There was tons of car companies, and it was the exact same thing as tech companies today.

52:21

And so I'm wary of those types of games where I fall a little bit more into the Warren Buffett thing where I'd rather have steady but smaller returns as opposed to big lumpy jumps. I do get big lumpy

And so I'm wary of those types of games where I fall a little bit more into the Warren Buffett thing where I'd rather have steady but smaller returns as opposed to big lumpy jumps. I do get big lumpy

52:32

jumps. But I do those in things with things that I can control, which is starting and selling companies.

jumps. But I do those in things with things that I can control, which is starting and selling companies.

52:37

I just prefer not to do it in things that I don't have control in. And typically, you don't actually play the Warren Buffett game. You play the index investing.

I just prefer not to do it in things that I don't have control in. And typically, you don't actually play the Warren Buffett game. You play the index investing.

52:44

You know, basically,

You know, basically,

52:45

I don't try to make my money on the investments. I try to

I don't try to make my money on the investments. I try to

52:49

be sort of safe and conservative with my investments because I'm gonna be aggressive and risky with entrepreneurship. Yeah. Which is not what Warren Buffett does. He does. He doesn't start companies. He buys companies in in I met Warren Buffett in the sense of,

be sort of safe and conservative with my investments because I'm gonna be aggressive and risky with entrepreneurship. Yeah. Which is not what Warren Buffett does. He does. He doesn't start companies. He buys companies in in I met Warren Buffett in the sense of,

53:01

try not to Alex.

try not to Alex.

53:02

I'll try not to lose money and I will do I'll take somewhat more conservative approach than many of my peers. Yes. Yes. Yes. The startup game is a the startup investing game is a

I'll try not to lose money and I will do I'll take somewhat more conservative approach than many of my peers. Yes. Yes. Yes. The startup game is a the startup investing game is a

53:12

Chasing and waiting game, which is a very range of strange combo. You're trying to chase to find

Chasing and waiting game, which is a very range of strange combo. You're trying to chase to find

53:18

these one of these breakout that are gonna become the one of the twenty companies that mattered this year, not the two thousand that didn't matter. And then you have to play a waiting game. To let those seeds kind of bloom over the next, you know, seven to ten years.

these one of these breakout that are gonna become the one of the twenty companies that mattered this year, not the two thousand that didn't matter. And then you have to play a waiting game. To let those seeds kind of bloom over the next, you know, seven to ten years.

53:32

A month ago, you went to Brian Johnson's house. So I wanna ask you about that, or do you wanna save it for Friday? You could do it. Let's do it.

A month ago, you went to Brian Johnson's house. So I wanna ask you about that, or do you wanna save it for Friday? You could do it. Let's do it.

53:38

Well, so Brian Johnson, the the the crazy guy who I love who claims he'll or he's trying not to die by decreasing his age. You went to his house, you interviewed him. That's going live soon. How was it? Was there any, like, spectacular learnings from him?

Well, so Brian Johnson, the the the crazy guy who I love who claims he'll or he's trying not to die by decreasing his age. You went to his house, you interviewed him. That's going live soon. How was it? Was there any, like, spectacular learnings from him?

53:54

Yeah. Going to this house is kind of remarkable.

Yeah. Going to this house is kind of remarkable.

53:57

So big house?

So big house?

53:59

Not huge, but,

Not huge, but,

54:00

like nice, definitely a nice place.

like nice, definitely a nice place.

54:03

Walk in and actually meet his son first. So I see his son. His son who's on the same I've seen one Instagram. He's on the same protocol as his dad pretty much. Yeah. Rep But he's like twenty whatever. He's like twenty years old or nineteen years old or something like that. And so he's like, I think he's in college or going to college, something like that. He

Walk in and actually meet his son first. So I see his son. His son who's on the same I've seen one Instagram. He's on the same protocol as his dad pretty much. Yeah. Rep But he's like twenty whatever. He's like twenty years old or nineteen years old or something like that. And so he's like, I think he's in college or going to college, something like that. He

54:21

He's super ripped, super kind guy.

He's super ripped, super kind guy.

54:24

And, you know, I was like, so, like, what's it like to be, you know, eating lunch with your friends? And you've got the green sludge, and they're, you know, they're eating not just or whatever.

And, you know, I was like, so, like, what's it like to be, you know, eating lunch with your friends? And you've got the green sludge, and they're, you know, they're eating not just or whatever.

54:32

And he's like, yeah, it's cool. It's not. I don't care. You know, I'm doing what I wanna do. He's like, know, the the independent mindedness that it takes to live a lifestyle branch on. So you could see, like, you know, the from as a even as as a parent, how that, like, shapes your kids to be a little bit different.

And he's like, yeah, it's cool. It's not. I don't care. You know, I'm doing what I wanna do. He's like, know, the the independent mindedness that it takes to live a lifestyle branch on. So you could see, like, you know, the from as a even as as a parent, how that, like, shapes your kids to be a little bit different.

54:46

And you're like, oh, you're emotionally healthy. That's boring. You know, I he's like, I was like, what do you think would be great out of this interview with him? And he was like, you know, I hope you clear up, like, some of the misconceptions Like, there's a bunch of misconceptions as to why he's doing this. And if people understood why he's actually doing this, they would feel a lot differently about what he's doing. And

And you're like, oh, you're emotionally healthy. That's boring. You know, I he's like, I was like, what do you think would be great out of this interview with him? And he was like, you know, I hope you clear up, like, some of the misconceptions Like, there's a bunch of misconceptions as to why he's doing this. And if people understood why he's actually doing this, they would feel a lot differently about what he's doing. And

55:04

And so, you know, I just I enjoyed that. Got a tour of his house, showed us, you know, showed me where he works out, how he where he eats. He opened up his fridge, And literally I was like, let's see what's in here. He opens up his fridge, and there's literally nothing in the fridge. There is, like, there

And so, you know, I just I enjoyed that. Got a tour of his house, showed us, you know, showed me where he works out, how he where he eats. He opened up his fridge, And literally I was like, let's see what's in here. He opens up his fridge, and there's literally nothing in the fridge. There is, like, there

55:19

is absolutely nothing in the fridge. It was like, one bottle of red wine on the side.

is absolutely nothing in the fridge. It was like, one bottle of red wine on the side.

55:24

And he's and then he's like, oh, yeah.

And he's and then he's like, oh, yeah.

55:27

He, like, opens up his free opens up his freezer, and there's, like, some medicine in there. I'm, like, oh, what's that for? He's, like, oh, that's, like, this drug that they give to people with leukemia, but take it proactively.

He, like, opens up his free opens up his freezer, and there's, like, some medicine in there. I'm, like, oh, what's that for? He's, like, oh, that's, like, this drug that they give to people with leukemia, but take it proactively.

55:38

I was like,

I was like,

55:39

oh, cool.

oh, cool.

55:41

You know, you're trying to find rapport when you go to someone's house

You know, you're trying to find rapport when you go to someone's house

55:44

And I was like, so I wear this Fitbit.

And I was like, so I wear this Fitbit.

55:47

I'm cool. I'm into tracking too. Right? Like,

I'm cool. I'm into tracking too. Right? Like,

55:50

yeah, I work out sometimes.

yeah, I work out sometimes.

55:53

I eat Sometimes I eat chips. You know, like, you know, it's like, wow. They it's literally, like, me meeting a bit of an alien person because their his lifestyle

I eat Sometimes I eat chips. You know, like, you know, it's like, wow. They it's literally, like, me meeting a bit of an alien person because their his lifestyle

56:01

and his discipline and his values and his,

and his discipline and his values and his,

56:04

priorities

priorities

56:05

are just very, very different than mine. But also, very cool, very inspiring. He's very, a very cool guy. So he was,

are just very, very different than mine. But also, very cool, very inspiring. He's very, a very cool guy. So he was,

56:12

like, when you go to someone's house, you meet somebody in their off camera.

like, when you go to someone's house, you meet somebody in their off camera.

56:15

Within the three minutes, you get a vibe of, like, What's this person's vibe? Some people will give you a hardcore fuck off vibe. Some people are kinda like, let's get this done, you know, vibe.

Within the three minutes, you get a vibe of, like, What's this person's vibe? Some people will give you a hardcore fuck off vibe. Some people are kinda like, let's get this done, you know, vibe.

56:27

And He was totally different. He was very kind, very curious,

And He was totally different. He was very kind, very curious,

56:31

you know, you know, it felt like, you know,

you know, you know, it felt like, you know,

56:35

respectful,

respectful,

56:36

very, very respectful, very nice. What was he curious about you?

very, very respectful, very nice. What was he curious about you?

56:41

Well, first he was just, like, thankful. He was like, oh, yeah. The first episode we did was a lot of fun, the one that we had him on a long time ago. And he's like, that really kind of, like, you know, helped get the word out there, got a bunch of good messages from it, and that led to more good things. So I think first thing was, like,

Well, first he was just, like, thankful. He was like, oh, yeah. The first episode we did was a lot of fun, the one that we had him on a long time ago. And he's like, that really kind of, like, you know, helped get the word out there, got a bunch of good messages from it, and that led to more good things. So I think first thing was, like,

56:57

kinda like, Thanks for, you know, great. Thanks for doing that.

kinda like, Thanks for, you know, great. Thanks for doing that.

57:02

That was the first thing. The second thing was like, you know, how do you react to He's like, so I'm curious. Like, what do you think of this? And is this something you would do? And how could I make this more approachable? And, like,

That was the first thing. The second thing was like, you know, how do you react to He's like, so I'm curious. Like, what do you think of this? And is this something you would do? And how could I make this more approachable? And, like,

57:13

what do you find, you know, he was almost like doing a bit of research in a way to, like, versus just being a know it all. Like, I already know the answer. I have the answer. You guys are all idiots for not following. Verse, you know, versus having an open mind on on, you know, what's a no, you know, a person who's not in the protocol. What's their reaction to this?

what do you find, you know, he was almost like doing a bit of research in a way to, like, versus just being a know it all. Like, I already know the answer. I have the answer. You guys are all idiots for not following. Verse, you know, versus having an open mind on on, you know, what's a no, you know, a person who's not in the protocol. What's their reaction to this?

57:32

And did he, have help running around his house?

And did he, have help running around his house?

57:35

Like, doctors and shit? He's, like, kinda, like, number two person. She, like, helps do a bunch of things.

Like, doctors and shit? He's, like, kinda, like, number two person. She, like, helps do a bunch of things.

57:41

But not like it's not like house help. That's like his, like, you know, she's like No. I meant like nurses.

But not like it's not like house help. That's like his, like, you know, she's like No. I meant like nurses.

57:48

Oh, there was no doctors or nurses there when I was there. We went up to, like, his room where he's got, like, all the heavy machinery to, like, measure your skin and then measure your eyes and measure your ears and all that stuff. And I was, like,

Oh, there was no doctors or nurses there when I was there. We went up to, like, his room where he's got, like, all the heavy machinery to, like, measure your skin and then measure your eyes and measure your ears and all that stuff. And I was, like,

58:00

like, so you're really measuring, like, every organ separately. I was like, of course, you know, skin is the largest organ in your body. It needs to be healthy. And, like, you know, my eyes are important. That's how I see. And I'm like, well, when you say it like that, if Sure. I was like, so what's the weak link? And he's like, left ear.

like, so you're really measuring, like, every organ separately. I was like, of course, you know, skin is the largest organ in your body. It needs to be healthy. And, like, you know, my eyes are important. That's how I see. And I'm like, well, when you say it like that, if Sure. I was like, so what's the weak link? And he's like, left ear.

58:14

Or, like, no, one right or left ear, I can't remember what he's, and I was like, he's like, I have the ear of, like, a seventy year old. And I go, why? He goes, from shooting. He's like, you know, I used to whatever. He's like, one ear is down, but the other ear is exposed.

Or, like, no, one right or left ear, I can't remember what he's, and I was like, he's like, I have the ear of, like, a seventy year old. And I go, why? He goes, from shooting. He's like, you know, I used to whatever. He's like, one ear is down, but the other ear is exposed.

58:27

And so he's like, when I would shoot,

And so he's like, when I would shoot,

58:29

that loud,

that loud,

58:30

gunshot that I used to do, like, you know, with some frequency,

gunshot that I used to do, like, you know, with some frequency,

58:33

it messed up my ear. It is very hard to rejuvenate or recover it ear. And he's like, so, you know, this goddamn thing is the is the weak link.

it messed up my ear. It is very hard to rejuvenate or recover it ear. And he's like, so, you know, this goddamn thing is the is the weak link.

58:41

Did you change anything in your life after seeing him? I tried his protocol for about twenty

Did you change anything in your life after seeing him? I tried his protocol for about twenty

58:47

days.

days.

58:48

So I No way. Yeah. So I ate the I told my chef. I was like, hey, this is the new thing. I want I would like some sludge for lunch, and then I want some nutty pudding.

So I No way. Yeah. So I ate the I told my chef. I was like, hey, this is the new thing. I want I would like some sludge for lunch, and then I want some nutty pudding.

58:57

And,

And,

58:58

and I tried to buy I didn't do all of his supplements. That's the one thing I didn't do because to do his supplements, you need, like, sixty five things that I couldn't even source online. I was like, how the hell did he do this? And did you feel him good? I mean, definitely felt light,

and I tried to buy I didn't do all of his supplements. That's the one thing I didn't do because to do his supplements, you need, like, sixty five things that I couldn't even source online. I was like, how the hell did he do this? And did you feel him good? I mean, definitely felt light,

59:10

lighter, like, lighter weight. Like, you can literally feel your body has, like, less baggage on it, and when you're doing it. However,

lighter, like, lighter weight. Like, you can literally feel your body has, like, less baggage on it, and when you're doing it. However,

59:18

I,

I,

59:20

I really detested that like, the main meal, the, like, kinda l lentils and green stuff. And the one I had, the one I when I followed the recipe did not taste like the one he had his his house. So I think he's got, like, new versions of the recipe that are better tasting.

I really detested that like, the main meal, the, like, kinda l lentils and green stuff. And the one I had, the one I when I followed the recipe did not taste like the one he had his his house. So I think he's got, like, new versions of the recipe that are better tasting.

59:34

That's so fascinating. I'm seeing a lot of pea there's a whole subreddit of people saying they're living his

That's so fascinating. I'm seeing a lot of pea there's a whole subreddit of people saying they're living his

59:38

life there's a there's a group of people that are living as light light that are doing this. So,

life there's a there's a group of people that are living as light light that are doing this. So,

59:44

they hold what's called tea parties. Which is a testosterone party. So you it's a bunch of guys that get together. They have a tea party where you get tested and you get your testosterone levels. And you find out, you know, do you need to be taking testosterone or And then that same guy has created a meal delivery service

they hold what's called tea parties. Which is a testosterone party. So you it's a bunch of guys that get together. They have a tea party where you get tested and you get your testosterone levels. And you find out, you know, do you need to be taking testosterone or And then that same guy has created a meal delivery service

59:59

called the blueprint delivery service, which is takes Brian Johnson's meal plan and makes it easy to do. Because, again, that's the that's honestly the hardest part of the whole thing. It's, like, it's not easy to just do it. And there's, like, it's hard enough to stick to something. It's if you add a bunch of friction of making it hard to even do, that's that's pretty tough. So I think it's great that somebody's doing that. I think that's honestly a good business idea because I met with this guy, I was like, oh, between the first time we talked to you and now, he is way more famous. And then between now and where he's gonna be in, like, sort of three years, you could tell

called the blueprint delivery service, which is takes Brian Johnson's meal plan and makes it easy to do. Because, again, that's the that's honestly the hardest part of the whole thing. It's, like, it's not easy to just do it. And there's, like, it's hard enough to stick to something. It's if you add a bunch of friction of making it hard to even do, that's that's pretty tough. So I think it's great that somebody's doing that. I think that's honestly a good business idea because I met with this guy, I was like, oh, between the first time we talked to you and now, he is way more famous. And then between now and where he's gonna be in, like, sort of three years, you could tell

01:00:29

This guy is just gonna become one of the most well known people in this world. Like, I think that his story is gonna be one of the most well known people in this world because

This guy is just gonna become one of the most well known people in this world. Like, I think that his story is gonna be one of the most well known people in this world because

01:00:37

He is essentially

He is essentially

01:00:38

donating his body to science while he's still alive,

donating his body to science while he's still alive,

01:00:42

which is, like, just a crazy thought. And

which is, like, just a crazy thought. And

01:00:45

He said this during the interview, he goes,

He said this during the interview, he goes,

01:00:48

a bet against me is a bet against AI.

a bet against me is a bet against AI.

01:00:51

And I probably wouldn't bet against AI. And I go, what AI? What do you mean? He goes, Well, I've basically handed over my body and the decisions I make for my health

And I probably wouldn't bet against AI. And I go, what AI? What do you mean? He goes, Well, I've basically handed over my body and the decisions I make for my health

01:01:00

to whatever

to whatever

01:01:02

the technology tells me is optimal.

the technology tells me is optimal.

01:01:05

And so if you think this is not gonna work, you're basically saying that

And so if you think this is not gonna work, you're basically saying that

01:01:09

science and technology is not gonna make better decisions than the average human. Like, no way. Of course, it's gonna make better decisions. And I'm just gonna do what the data tells me what the algorithm will tell me to do. And he's, like, long term, that's AI. And he goes, a bet against me, he's a bet against AI. And then he the crazy thing, by the way, and this is in the interview, and I don't know how people are gonna receive this because it's, like, kinda tense. The interview's a bit intense.

science and technology is not gonna make better decisions than the average human. Like, no way. Of course, it's gonna make better decisions. And I'm just gonna do what the data tells me what the algorithm will tell me to do. And he's, like, long term, that's AI. And he goes, a bet against me, he's a bet against AI. And then he the crazy thing, by the way, and this is in the interview, and I don't know how people are gonna receive this because it's, like, kinda tense. The interview's a bit intense.

01:01:32

He's like,

He's like,

01:01:34

he's basically like I'm competing with Jesus.

he's basically like I'm competing with Jesus.

01:01:37

And he doesn't say that, but he just keeps comparing himself to Jesus. And I'm like, that's kind of blasphemous. So what what do you mean?

And he doesn't say that, but he just keeps comparing himself to Jesus. And I'm like, that's kind of blasphemous. So what what do you mean?

01:01:44

And he's like, well,

And he's like, well,

01:01:46

Here's the thing. He's like,

Here's the thing. He's like,

01:01:48

I was told because he grew up pretty, like, a very religious, like, upbringing. He goes, I was told, do x y z

I was told because he grew up pretty, like, a very religious, like, upbringing. He goes, I was told, do x y z

01:01:55

And then you'll die. And then after you die,

And then you'll die. And then after you die,

01:01:58

you'll go to heaven.

you'll go to heaven.

01:02:00

I have a different offer for you.

I have a different offer for you.

01:02:02

Do x y z and don't die.

Do x y z and don't die.

01:02:06

And he's like, that's my whole thing.

And he's like, that's my whole thing.

01:02:08

Don't die. If you're against me, you're on team death.

Don't die. If you're against me, you're on team death.

01:02:12

If if you're with me, it's team,

If if you're with me, it's team,

01:02:14

don't die. And it's, like, that's how simple he's bolded down to. And I'm, like, well, you're still gonna die. Like, the current thing is you're aging slower,

don't die. And it's, like, that's how simple he's bolded down to. And I'm, like, well, you're still gonna die. Like, the current thing is you're aging slower,

01:02:24

but you're still aging. And that's where he was like,

but you're still aging. And that's where he was like,

01:02:27

correct. That's currently what's happened.

correct. That's currently what's happened.

01:02:29

Yeah. For now, the better the tech gets, the better the AI gets.

Yeah. For now, the better the tech gets, the better the AI gets.

01:02:33

The more I'm able to experiment, the closer I get. To just slowing down the point, the the speed of aging to the point where I'm not gonna die. One of the takeaways I have is

The more I'm able to experiment, the closer I get. To just slowing down the point, the the speed of aging to the point where I'm not gonna die. One of the takeaways I have is

01:02:44

what he has done, it's significant.

what he has done, it's significant.

01:02:46

But you can do a version of this where you dedicate your life, or it's just six months to something, and like some crazy experiment and talking about it,

But you can do a version of this where you dedicate your life, or it's just six months to something, and like some crazy experiment and talking about it,

01:02:55

and you could build a career. Like, another example of this, this is that's way more attainable is,

and you could build a career. Like, another example of this, this is that's way more attainable is,

01:03:00

you know, the carnivore diet is a thing right now.

you know, the carnivore diet is a thing right now.

01:03:04

Only, you know, be one of these guys that only eats meat for six months. That's challenging, but it's not that challenging. And you could build a career out of that. And that is, like, really interesting. So he's he's he's spent a lot of money. I think he says he spends two million or a million dollars a year. That's out of out of this world for just about everyone. But there are other experiments that you can do, and it becomes your identity, and you can build a career about, around that. Tim Ferris did that a little bit with the four hour body, where he tried things that weren't crazy he did a really good job of explaining it and making that part of his identity, and he built a really great career around it. And I think that's really fascinating. That that's a takeaway I have, which is Can you dedicate six months to something and talk about it? And will that actually change your life for, like, for the purpose of actually talking about it? You know what I mean?

Only, you know, be one of these guys that only eats meat for six months. That's challenging, but it's not that challenging. And you could build a career out of that. And that is, like, really interesting. So he's he's he's spent a lot of money. I think he says he spends two million or a million dollars a year. That's out of out of this world for just about everyone. But there are other experiments that you can do, and it becomes your identity, and you can build a career about, around that. Tim Ferris did that a little bit with the four hour body, where he tried things that weren't crazy he did a really good job of explaining it and making that part of his identity, and he built a really great career around it. And I think that's really fascinating. That that's a takeaway I have, which is Can you dedicate six months to something and talk about it? And will that actually change your life for, like, for the purpose of actually talking about it? You know what I mean?

01:03:49

Yeah. I I think that's totally true. And one of the the one of the cynical ways to look at Brian Johnson is he just did one of the greatest pre launch marketing campaigns of all time because now he's rolling out his olive oil and he's launching his, like, you know, blueprint, like, supplement

Yeah. I I think that's totally true. And one of the the one of the cynical ways to look at Brian Johnson is he just did one of the greatest pre launch marketing campaigns of all time because now he's rolling out his olive oil and he's launching his, like, you know, blueprint, like, supplement

01:04:03

pack or whatever, ability for anybody to follow this protocol simply. I don't think that's simple. That's I don't think that's true at all. The guy's way too rich to, like, become an olive oil salesman. You know, like, I I doubt that, you know, he's got eight hundred dollars or whatever. Like, you know, he sold his last company three hundred million dollars. I don't think that he's doing this to

pack or whatever, ability for anybody to follow this protocol simply. I don't think that's simple. That's I don't think that's true at all. The guy's way too rich to, like, become an olive oil salesman. You know, like, I I doubt that, you know, he's got eight hundred dollars or whatever. Like, you know, he sold his last company three hundred million dollars. I don't think that he's doing this to

01:04:21

launch a new supplement brand. I don't think that was his attention at all. I genuinely believe that he needed some purpose in his life, and he decide he found purpose and meaning in doing this.

launch a new supplement brand. I don't think that was his attention at all. I genuinely believe that he needed some purpose in his life, and he decide he found purpose and meaning in doing this.

01:04:32

And now he's trying to, like, just do it at level twelve. So he's like, cool.

And now he's trying to, like, just do it at level twelve. So he's like, cool.

01:04:37

You know, for most people, they can they can find some purpose and feel good in exercise or taking care of themselves,

You know, for most people, they can they can find some purpose and feel good in exercise or taking care of themselves,

01:04:44

he just turned that dial up to level twelve, and that's what I see at him.

he just turned that dial up to level twelve, and that's what I see at him.

01:04:48

Well, that's awesome. And, you know, that's, You don't wanna necessarily wanna also be at level twelve because

Well, that's awesome. And, you know, that's, You don't wanna necessarily wanna also be at level twelve because

01:04:53

the wheels start to come off when you're at level twelve, and it's pretty intense. But it's cool. It's very cool that there are people who live at level twelve. There's I'm glad that Michael Phelps exists. I am glad that Elon Musk exists. Am glad that Brian Johnson exists so that you can see what level twelve looks like. And then you dial that down to whatever makes sense for you, but you can take inspiration. You you at least know what level twelve is. What I say about those people is I say I know two things are two things for sure. I'm I love that they exist

the wheels start to come off when you're at level twelve, and it's pretty intense. But it's cool. It's very cool that there are people who live at level twelve. There's I'm glad that Michael Phelps exists. I am glad that Elon Musk exists. Am glad that Brian Johnson exists so that you can see what level twelve looks like. And then you dial that down to whatever makes sense for you, but you can take inspiration. You you at least know what level twelve is. What I say about those people is I say I know two things are two things for sure. I'm I love that they exist

01:05:19

and I'm not them. Right.

and I'm not them. Right.

01:05:21

That that's what I know. Well, that's sick. I'm excited to see the, episode, and, I guess we'll end there. That's the pod.

That that's what I know. Well, that's sick. I'm excited to see the, episode, and, I guess we'll end there. That's the pod.

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