00:00

What could you get for it you think? I would not be interested in having any conversations

What could you get for it you think? I would not be interested in having any conversations

00:05

for, you know, less than

for, you know, less than

00:08

Yeah. On the order of, like, wait, you got, like, the hustle or,

Yeah. On the order of, like, wait, you got, like, the hustle or,

00:11

morning brew or, you know, stuff like that. Tens of millions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

morning brew or, you know, stuff like that. Tens of millions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:16

Mean, I just think like the value of what we've built both as a business and revenue and our audience, and our durability is, you know,

Mean, I just think like the value of what we've built both as a business and revenue and our audience, and our durability is, you know,

00:24

is in that category.

is in that category.

00:35

Alright. What's up? We got a crossover

Alright. What's up? We got a crossover

00:37

episode.

episode.

00:38

Call me Tim Hardaway. We got The guys from acquired?

Call me Tim Hardaway. We got The guys from acquired?

00:42

Yeah. You like that. You like that on the that's good. That's good. That's good. Yeah.

Yeah. You like that. You like that on the that's good. That's good. That's good. Yeah.

00:46

The that's for the the five percent of of listeners who who know about basketball.

The that's for the the five percent of of listeners who who know about basketball.

00:51

So we got, the guys from acquired are here. We're doing kind of,

So we got, the guys from acquired are here. We're doing kind of,

00:55

a joint episode, a,

a joint episode, a,

00:58

the old Alabama wedding, as I like to call it. You know, just we're just getting we're getting cousins together here because You guys got a podcast that is,

the old Alabama wedding, as I like to call it. You know, just we're just getting we're getting cousins together here because You guys got a podcast that is,

01:06

pretty awesome. I remember when I was working at, at our previous startup, a guy came to me. He was like, there's a podcast you're gonna love. It's called acquired.

pretty awesome. I remember when I was working at, at our previous startup, a guy came to me. He was like, there's a podcast you're gonna love. It's called acquired.

01:13

And I go, what is it? He goes, it's, like, the back stories of these, like, of all great tech acquisitions, like, how it all went down, they go into, like, all the nerdy details, And then I binged you guys for, like, six days straight.

And I go, what is it? He goes, it's, like, the back stories of these, like, of all great tech acquisitions, like, how it all went down, they go into, like, all the nerdy details, And then I binged you guys for, like, six days straight.

01:25

And so that was that's how I kinda first got into it a couple of years ago. So welcome to the show. David and Ben. Thank you. We did a super fun crossover with you a couple of years ago now, but it was just with Sean. Sam, you were off travel in the world doing amazing things. Well, that's what he said. He was like, you'll probably do something amazing. He was like, probably just like a doctor's appointment or something.

And so that was that's how I kinda first got into it a couple of years ago. So welcome to the show. David and Ben. Thank you. We did a super fun crossover with you a couple of years ago now, but it was just with Sean. Sam, you were off travel in the world doing amazing things. Well, that's what he said. He was like, you'll probably do something amazing. He was like, probably just like a doctor's appointment or something.

01:46

Too fake. It's probably Yeah. You guys have totally come up since then. The, I mean, you were big back then, but, that was, like, within the first couple months, I think of you starting this. And,

Too fake. It's probably Yeah. You guys have totally come up since then. The, I mean, you were big back then, but, that was, like, within the first couple months, I think of you starting this. And,

01:56

It's just been awesome to watch how far you've come. That that was kind of an hour even though it was year four or five for us. That was kind of our early days too because Sean, you're right. That we were mostly about acquisitions at that point. And we talked about the Bebo acquisition -- Right. -- as part of the episode. And now we do these, like, three, four hour entire,

It's just been awesome to watch how far you've come. That that was kind of an hour even though it was year four or five for us. That was kind of our early days too because Sean, you're right. That we were mostly about acquisitions at that point. And we talked about the Bebo acquisition -- Right. -- as part of the episode. And now we do these, like, three, four hour entire,

02:14

you know, history and strategy of a company regardless of whether there was a transaction. But,

you know, history and strategy of a company regardless of whether there was a transaction. But,

02:19

yeah, that that feels like,

yeah, that that feels like,

02:21

don't know. The funny thing about exponential growth is it feels like a lifetime ago all the time. I always think about that, like, when you pick a niche and then you kind of are gonna run out But the niche can get you somewhere. So, for example, I was thinking about this with Coffee Zillow, the YouTube guy who exposes people scams.

don't know. The funny thing about exponential growth is it feels like a lifetime ago all the time. I always think about that, like, when you pick a niche and then you kind of are gonna run out But the niche can get you somewhere. So, for example, I was thinking about this with Coffee Zillow, the YouTube guy who exposes people scams.

02:36

And I'm like and then he did one the other day that was, like,

And I'm like and then he did one the other day that was, like,

02:39

he deemed a celebrity to promote some NFT thing. Like, hey, we'll pay you to promote this NFT thing. And, like, the white paper

he deemed a celebrity to promote some NFT thing. Like, hey, we'll pay you to promote this NFT thing. And, like, the white paper

02:46

said, like, the shit to scam or whatever, but he didn't read it obviously. He just promoted it. And he's like, ah, scammer. And I'm like, but you that's kind of entrapment. Like, you

said, like, the shit to scam or whatever, but he didn't read it obviously. He just promoted it. And he's like, ah, scammer. And I'm like, but you that's kind of entrapment. Like, you

02:55

you're running out of people to, like, to to cover here. You ended up create scammers. Like, I don't think that Like Ali g back in the day. Exactly.

you're running out of people to, like, to to cover here. You ended up create scammers. Like, I don't think that Like Ali g back in the day. Exactly.

03:02

But, like, wasn't his original stick, but I was like, yeah, you're not gonna, like, you're trying to be on this YouTube once a week treadmill,

But, like, wasn't his original stick, but I was like, yeah, you're not gonna, like, you're trying to be on this YouTube once a week treadmill,

03:08

and there's not once a week gonna be a giant, Logan Paul, like, Celebrity name did this bad thing, and I'm gonna be the exposure. It's like, what are you gonna do next Tuesday? Because there's not, like, this isn't that that current. But you guys did a good job of of switching it up. People said that to us, Sean, they go, you're gonna run ideas. And I was like, yeah, we might. But then it just kinda like morphed into like us saying a lot of like it's like people when I I someone yesterday was like, what's your podcast about? I was like, well, The name's pretty bad. It's definitely a lot about business, but we also make a lot of horrible jokes too. So people kind of like it for that reason.

and there's not once a week gonna be a giant, Logan Paul, like, Celebrity name did this bad thing, and I'm gonna be the exposure. It's like, what are you gonna do next Tuesday? Because there's not, like, this isn't that that current. But you guys did a good job of of switching it up. People said that to us, Sean, they go, you're gonna run ideas. And I was like, yeah, we might. But then it just kinda like morphed into like us saying a lot of like it's like people when I I someone yesterday was like, what's your podcast about? I was like, well, The name's pretty bad. It's definitely a lot about business, but we also make a lot of horrible jokes too. So people kind of like it for that reason.

03:43

I've been thinking about this a lot. Your niche earns you the right to exist,

I've been thinking about this a lot. Your niche earns you the right to exist,

03:47

but it's in in media, but it's your,

but it's in in media, but it's your,

03:50

you're sort of demeanor and you're the way that you look at the world that then gives you license to expand from there. So, like, if David my friend.

you're sort of demeanor and you're the way that you look at the world that then gives you license to expand from there. So, like, if David my friend.

03:59

There you go. I I just think if David and I had started with, like, we're a podcast that talks about businesses. It's, like, cool next. But if you, like, pitch people on really specifically what their what you'd like the job to be done of your show and their life is, then you can sort of, like, expand and explore from there. Right. Like, Ben, Ben should have

There you go. I I just think if David and I had started with, like, we're a podcast that talks about businesses. It's, like, cool next. But if you, like, pitch people on really specifically what their what you'd like the job to be done of your show and their life is, then you can sort of, like, expand and explore from there. Right. Like, Ben, Ben should have

04:19

been, like, you know,

been, like, you know,

04:21

you know, Mormons's taking over the world. Started with the Mormon community, then expanded from there. I remember talking to the guys from Wait But Why? That great blog.

you know, Mormons's taking over the world. Started with the Mormon community, then expanded from there. I remember talking to the guys from Wait But Why? That great blog.

04:31

Yeah. Yeah. And,

Yeah. Yeah. And,

04:33

This guy Wait, guys. Is there a team? It's not just Tim. It's Tim, and then it's his childhood friend Andrew who does like the back end, all the business stuff They have a really interesting business. They like acquire companies that are completely unrelated to wipe away. Like, that's how they make their money. And then they just be waiting for fun. Like, that that's kind of the the the model. But I was asking him about content

This guy Wait, guys. Is there a team? It's not just Tim. It's Tim, and then it's his childhood friend Andrew who does like the back end, all the business stuff They have a really interesting business. They like acquire companies that are completely unrelated to wipe away. Like, that's how they make their money. And then they just be waiting for fun. Like, that that's kind of the the the model. But I was asking him about content

04:55

because I was like, I admire Wapoife, so tell me about this. And I was like, you know, I'm trying to figure this out. I kinda like to talk about this, and I kinda like to talk about this. And he's like,

because I was like, I admire Wapoife, so tell me about this. And I was like, you know, I'm trying to figure this out. I kinda like to talk about this, and I kinda like to talk about this. And he's like,

05:04

You need your, like, your flagship franchise,

You need your, like, your flagship franchise,

05:07

and you do your franchise. And then people will love that franchise, but they'll also love you and they'll you'll earn the right to talk to them about, like, oh, you wanna talk about, like, mindset stuff? Cool. But unless you think mindset is the right place to start, Wait. Earn the the trust on the business side. And then say, by the way, here's my mindset stuff. And then you'll get some percentage of people to cross over and then a new audience there too. You just keep launching new franchises after that. It's such a it's also like

and you do your franchise. And then people will love that franchise, but they'll also love you and they'll you'll earn the right to talk to them about, like, oh, you wanna talk about, like, mindset stuff? Cool. But unless you think mindset is the right place to start, Wait. Earn the the trust on the business side. And then say, by the way, here's my mindset stuff. And then you'll get some percentage of people to cross over and then a new audience there too. You just keep launching new franchises after that. It's such a it's also like

05:33

the we even you guys, you know, you started several years after us, but, like, think you still Is that true? When did you guys start?

the we even you guys, you know, you started several years after us, but, like, think you still Is that true? When did you guys start?

05:40

Three years ago, and he, something like Ninth, September of twenty nineteen. I think or Oh, wow. I think it was earlier than than I thought. Yeah. We were twenty fifteen, but even in twenty nine, like, it was still kinda earliest enough days in podcasting that, like, the medium was The mainstream portion of podcasting meeting was still early enough that people were looking for new stuff. Right. And like that, I think, has changed now. In a pretty big way. The way that it started was basically, like, I was in Austin or somewhere, as living in San Francisco at the time. And Sean texted me, and he was like, Hey, I have an idea for a podcast. Here's the pilot. Do you guys wanna does hustle wanna be the publisher? And I listened to it and I, like, I just listened to the intro and I was, like, Yep. We're in. Let's just air this exact one next week and we'll start. By the way, that that was a little bit of a fib. I I basically told you I was like, hey,

Three years ago, and he, something like Ninth, September of twenty nineteen. I think or Oh, wow. I think it was earlier than than I thought. Yeah. We were twenty fifteen, but even in twenty nine, like, it was still kinda earliest enough days in podcasting that, like, the medium was The mainstream portion of podcasting meeting was still early enough that people were looking for new stuff. Right. And like that, I think, has changed now. In a pretty big way. The way that it started was basically, like, I was in Austin or somewhere, as living in San Francisco at the time. And Sean texted me, and he was like, Hey, I have an idea for a podcast. Here's the pilot. Do you guys wanna does hustle wanna be the publisher? And I listened to it and I, like, I just listened to the intro and I was, like, Yep. We're in. Let's just air this exact one next week and we'll start. By the way, that that was a little bit of a fib. I I basically told you I was like, hey,

06:26

you know, why don't I was like, why don't you do podcasts? And Sam was like, like, I gotta hire somebody to do it. I don't know. We'll we'll just focus on this email thing. I was like, well,

you know, why don't I was like, why don't you do podcasts? And Sam was like, like, I gotta hire somebody to do it. I don't know. We'll we'll just focus on this email thing. I was like, well,

06:34

I got a podcast. I'm gonna do a podcast. Will you be the publisher? He's like, and I was like, I'm a I already I knew that

I got a podcast. I'm gonna do a podcast. Will you be the publisher? He's like, and I was like, I'm a I already I knew that

06:40

to the deal. I needed to send them a file, but I hadn't recorded yet. So I go, I already did the first episode.

to the deal. I needed to send them a file, but I hadn't recorded yet. So I go, I already did the first episode.

06:46

You wanna, like, take a listen to it. And then I, like, just ghosted him on Messenger for twenty four hours. So I could go record the episode. They came back and was like, oh, my bad. Here's the file.

You wanna, like, take a listen to it. And then I, like, just ghosted him on Messenger for twenty four hours. So I could go record the episode. They came back and was like, oh, my bad. Here's the file.

06:55

So there really wasn't an episode when I first messaged you, but I was like, I got the vibe that if this is good, if I get, like, a good first thirty five seconds, this is done. And, so that's what I went and did. Yeah. And we were, like, we're in. And then he did it his way. It was called my first million because it was, like, first million users, revenue, whatever. And it was great. It was great as it was, but, like, there there was one time, like, three months in where a guest didn't show up. And he was like,

So there really wasn't an episode when I first messaged you, but I was like, I got the vibe that if this is good, if I get, like, a good first thirty five seconds, this is done. And, so that's what I went and did. Yeah. And we were, like, we're in. And then he did it his way. It was called my first million because it was, like, first million users, revenue, whatever. And it was great. It was great as it was, but, like, there there was one time, like, three months in where a guest didn't show up. And he was like,

07:20

I booked the space. You just wanna come in, like, talk. And I was like, I guess, and we did that. And then it kinda like did well, but like our the first episode he did by himself, it got sixty five thousand downloads. And we were like, do podcasts. No. Podcast is easy. This is gonna be awesome. And then over the next twelve months, it basically went down to, like, as low as, like, maybe ten or fifteen thousand. And then since then, it's basically just been a slow grind. Now, we're anywhere from a hundred to two hundred thousand per per episode. If you include the YouTube. Our YouTube is is pretty weak. It's like twenty to fifty thousand, twenty to a hundred thousand, and then the RSS feed, which is like iTunes and all that stuff. That's

I booked the space. You just wanna come in, like, talk. And I was like, I guess, and we did that. And then it kinda like did well, but like our the first episode he did by himself, it got sixty five thousand downloads. And we were like, do podcasts. No. Podcast is easy. This is gonna be awesome. And then over the next twelve months, it basically went down to, like, as low as, like, maybe ten or fifteen thousand. And then since then, it's basically just been a slow grind. Now, we're anywhere from a hundred to two hundred thousand per per episode. If you include the YouTube. Our YouTube is is pretty weak. It's like twenty to fifty thousand, twenty to a hundred thousand, and then the RSS feed, which is like iTunes and all that stuff. That's

08:00

maybe a hundred,

maybe a hundred,

08:01

or something like that. What, where are you guys at? Because, like, no one talks about this stuff. Like, whenever Google remember we were googling, like, how do we get to a hundred thousand downloads? But everyone out there was like, here's how you get your first thousand, first ten thousand. I was like, okay. But, like, how do we get bigger?

or something like that. What, where are you guys at? Because, like, no one talks about this stuff. Like, whenever Google remember we were googling, like, how do we get to a hundred thousand downloads? But everyone out there was like, here's how you get your first thousand, first ten thousand. I was like, okay. But, like, how do we get bigger?

08:17

We're we're almost the exact same scale

We're we're almost the exact same scale

08:20

with a very different journey. I mean, every journey is unique on this stuff.

with a very different journey. I mean, every journey is unique on this stuff.

08:24

So our

So our

08:25

episodes get about two hundred thousand downloads, listens, whatever you wanna call it.

episodes get about two hundred thousand downloads, listens, whatever you wanna call it.

08:31

Which is interesting because Spotify has become so much more of the market now.

Which is interesting because Spotify has become so much more of the market now.

08:35

Per episode.

Per episode.

08:37

But

But

08:38

unlike you guys, we do, like, one episode a month, you know, one to two episodes a month. And they're really, really long.

unlike you guys, we do, like, one episode a month, you know, one to two episodes a month. And they're really, really long.

08:47

So,

So,

08:48

we

we

08:49

have with a few exceptions that we can talk about, we've never had, like, kind of big spike viral, you know, breakout moments. It's been a, you know, eight year journey from, like, zero up to that.

have with a few exceptions that we can talk about, we've never had, like, kind of big spike viral, you know, breakout moments. It's been a, you know, eight year journey from, like, zero up to that.

09:03

We don't really have spikes. Like, there's spiky stuff, but it's not like a true, like, virality moment. Interesting. And you guys so one thing that's interesting about content and media is Everybody measures the number. Nobody measures the quality because the quality is way harder to understand. Yeah. But clearly there's a difference between two hundred thousand people listening to an episode of acquired

We don't really have spikes. Like, there's spiky stuff, but it's not like a true, like, virality moment. Interesting. And you guys so one thing that's interesting about content and media is Everybody measures the number. Nobody measures the quality because the quality is way harder to understand. Yeah. But clearly there's a difference between two hundred thousand people listening to an episode of acquired

09:24

versus two hundred thousand views on a TikTok. Okay. We get that because it's kinda short versus long. But even if it was a podcast about sports versus a podcast about business acquisitions.

versus two hundred thousand views on a TikTok. Okay. We get that because it's kinda short versus long. But even if it was a podcast about sports versus a podcast about business acquisitions.

09:34

The type of people that are gonna listen to your thing are just inherently more valuable.

The type of people that are gonna listen to your thing are just inherently more valuable.

09:38

Have you guys thought about that, seen that. Do you guys

Have you guys thought about that, seen that. Do you guys

09:42

feel better? I mean, that's the whole that is the whole business, not that we started or do this for the business side, although it's become a great business. That is the whole business side. And and also on the content side too, like, we made we started doing this for us to learn.

feel better? I mean, that's the whole that is the whole business, not that we started or do this for the business side, although it's become a great business. That is the whole business side. And and also on the content side too, like, we made we started doing this for us to learn.

09:57

And then we're like, well, who, you know, would also wanna learn for video people like us, and that's kinda who we make it for. Like,

And then we're like, well, who, you know, would also wanna learn for video people like us, and that's kinda who we make it for. Like,

10:05

so we struggle with YouTube, with TikTok, with Twitter.

so we struggle with YouTube, with TikTok, with Twitter.

10:09

Like, we're not good on any of those other platforms, even though we do atomize content and do it now.

Like, we're not good on any of those other platforms, even though we do atomize content and do it now.

10:15

Because, like, we don't it's just not kinda how we designed the show. And to to to ground it,

Because, like, we don't it's just not kinda how we designed the show. And to to to ground it,

10:21

forty percent of acquired listeners are c level or VP level executives,

forty percent of acquired listeners are c level or VP level executives,

10:26

twenty three percent are currently founders, twelve percent were previously founders. And if you break down by job,

twenty three percent are currently founders, twelve percent were previously founders. And if you break down by job,

10:32

seventeen percent are engineers, fifteen percent are actively CEOs today and twelve percent are product managers. Right. And so, like, the whole

seventeen percent are engineers, fifteen percent are actively CEOs today and twelve percent are product managers. Right. And so, like, the whole

10:42

business for us. And to David's point, it didn't start as a business, but where we are today is, like,

business for us. And to David's point, it didn't start as a business, but where we are today is, like,

10:48

I don't really want millions of listeners. I want acquired to, like, kinda slow its growth, but saturate

I don't really want millions of listeners. I want acquired to, like, kinda slow its growth, but saturate

10:55

the niche that we're in, because I think it's the most valuable audience in the world. And I don't know exactly what that leads to, but, like, all the conversations, David, and I get to have with our listeners

the niche that we're in, because I think it's the most valuable audience in the world. And I don't know exactly what that leads to, but, like, all the conversations, David, and I get to have with our listeners

11:06

because of who they are are, like, super fascinating.

because of who they are are, like, super fascinating.

11:09

Well, what will it lead to? So, like, you know, you do you you can probably make a great living off of just the advertising, but I'm looking at your site. You don't sell anything.

Well, what will it lead to? So, like, you know, you do you you can probably make a great living off of just the advertising, but I'm looking at your site. You don't sell anything.

11:19

What's it gonna lead to? Well, we do have merch. That that hoodie you're wearing now is pretty dope. Is that merch? Oh, I I just This is Marquez's hoodie. Yeah.

What's it gonna lead to? Well, we do have merch. That that hoodie you're wearing now is pretty dope. Is that merch? Oh, I I just This is Marquez's hoodie. Yeah.

11:28

With,

With,

11:29

David Emmel who's on Marques's team is a,

David Emmel who's on Marques's team is a,

11:33

become a good friend and is an acquired listener, and, he hooking me up with this. This this hoodie rock Yeah. I I sent a picture to our merch purse. I screenshot it.

become a good friend and is an acquired listener, and, he hooking me up with this. This this hoodie rock Yeah. I I sent a picture to our merch purse. I screenshot it.

11:42

And I had that moment where I was like, you know that thing we were on a Zoom call? I don't know if you guys do this, but you screenshot and it's like make a really loud ass sound of, like, a screenshot has been taken, and then you gotta, like, address it. Like, it was a fart during the, during the call. I was really worried that when I started doing that thing, on every slide of my day. This is, total digression, and we'll come back to it. But, fourth wall,

And I had that moment where I was like, you know that thing we were on a Zoom call? I don't know if you guys do this, but you screenshot and it's like make a really loud ass sound of, like, a screenshot has been taken, and then you gotta, like, address it. Like, it was a fart during the, during the call. I was really worried that when I started doing that thing, on every slide of my day. This is, total digression, and we'll come back to it. But, fourth wall,

12:04

makes the so Marques is an investor in fourth wall. Walker Williams, the founder. He was the founder of Teespring.

makes the so Marques is an investor in fourth wall. Walker Williams, the founder. He was the founder of Teespring.

12:10

Awesome guy. We've gotten to know him, we're we're talking to them now. I think. Yeah. Yeah. March. Yeah. They're, they are great. And they made this fully custom for Marques,

Awesome guy. We've gotten to know him, we're we're talking to them now. I think. Yeah. Yeah. March. Yeah. They're, they are great. And they made this fully custom for Marques,

12:19

and it's It's the best. Mark has being, what's his name? Brownley? Is that his name? MKBHD. Yeah. The, the you I mean, I You said it's first name like he's Oprah. Like, you know, I was like, who's the dude? Oh, it's that guy. Well, he has, like, twenty million YouTube subscribers. I mean, I just know him as, like, the guy who inter

and it's It's the best. Mark has being, what's his name? Brownley? Is that his name? MKBHD. Yeah. The, the you I mean, I You said it's first name like he's Oprah. Like, you know, I was like, who's the dude? Oh, it's that guy. Well, he has, like, twenty million YouTube subscribers. I mean, I just know him as, like, the guy who inter

12:37

reviews,

reviews,

12:38

tech, but he also, like, has interviewed Tesla, Elon, and all these, like, great guys. I mean, he's cool. Unless they've come on this podcast, they're I don't know them. That this podcast makes you in my mind.

tech, but he also, like, has interviewed Tesla, Elon, and all these, like, great guys. I mean, he's cool. Unless they've come on this podcast, they're I don't know them. That this podcast makes you in my mind.

12:49

He's also the craziest thing is, like, as if it wasn't enough, to operate this, like, pretty large scale TV production studio at this point as a as a YouTuber.

He's also the craziest thing is, like, as if it wasn't enough, to operate this, like, pretty large scale TV production studio at this point as a as a YouTuber.

13:00

He's also, like, one of the best ultimate frisbee players in the world. Oh, really? Yeah. He's a professional ultimate frisbee player as well. I can see that. That that's a that's a very obvious crossover. Do you, so, like,

He's also, like, one of the best ultimate frisbee players in the world. Oh, really? Yeah. He's a professional ultimate frisbee player as well. I can see that. That that's a that's a very obvious crossover. Do you, so, like,

13:11

when we'll just talk real insider based off for a second, and then we'll move move on. But with podcasting,

when we'll just talk real insider based off for a second, and then we'll move move on. But with podcasting,

13:16

a lot of people ask us how to start it and stuff like that. And I'm like, I don't know how to grow it. It's quite challenging, but what I've really enjoyed getting to know is, like, Andrew Huberman. I I'm, you know, I'm acquaintances not friends friends with him really, but, like, we'll chat every once in a while. And he's, like, I'd like to inspire you. We've seen each other with our shirts off, but we I mean, I would call each other friends, but, like,

a lot of people ask us how to start it and stuff like that. And I'm like, I don't know how to grow it. It's quite challenging, but what I've really enjoyed getting to know is, like, Andrew Huberman. I I'm, you know, I'm acquaintances not friends friends with him really, but, like, we'll chat every once in a while. And he's, like, I'd like to inspire you. We've seen each other with our shirts off, but we I mean, I would call each other friends, but, like,

13:35

we

we

13:37

we've sawn it together.

we've sawn it together.

13:38

This is, like, sadly, like, oh, I was probably at a doctor's appointment for, like, your life is just, like, I listen to you guys. I'm like, wow. No, bro. I, like, he was he was on our, but he was on our pod. So, like, I know him, like, an hour plus, like, five text messages change. So, like, that's the extent that I know him. But he I think there if you look at Spotify when he releases an episode, it's typically the most popular on

This is, like, sadly, like, oh, I was probably at a doctor's appointment for, like, your life is just, like, I listen to you guys. I'm like, wow. No, bro. I, like, he was he was on our, but he was on our pod. So, like, I know him, like, an hour plus, like, five text messages change. So, like, that's the extent that I know him. But he I think there if you look at Spotify when he releases an episode, it's typically the most popular on

14:00

the charts. And I think they're in the million mark, million per

the charts. And I think they're in the million mark, million per

14:05

episode, which is how we like to measure it. Is there anyone else in the business category that in the two hundred five I mean, all ins probably four hundred, maybe five hundred thousand. Do you know, like, how big do you have to be to be some of the biggest? Of course, there's Dave Ramsey. He's he's in a whole different category. Yeah. It's funny. It depends because, like, business kinda gets lumped in with all these other, like, personal finance type categories. But I think in our ilk,

episode, which is how we like to measure it. Is there anyone else in the business category that in the two hundred five I mean, all ins probably four hundred, maybe five hundred thousand. Do you know, like, how big do you have to be to be some of the biggest? Of course, there's Dave Ramsey. He's he's in a whole different category. Yeah. It's funny. It depends because, like, business kinda gets lumped in with all these other, like, personal finance type categories. But I think in our ilk,

14:28

Yeah. They should make a separate budgeting category and move Dave Ramsey's ass over there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. They should make a separate budgeting category and move Dave Ramsey's ass over there. Yeah. Yeah.

14:36

You know, and it's it's all into, like, has been an amazing breakout. They've become more of a mainstream news and political show too. I mean, they still talk tech and business, but

You know, and it's it's all into, like, has been an amazing breakout. They've become more of a mainstream news and political show too. I mean, they still talk tech and business, but

14:45

That I think is a lot of their audience, and they're huge now. But, yeah, our category, I would say, like,

That I think is a lot of their audience, and they're huge now. But, yeah, our category, I would say, like,

14:51

invest like the best probably is the most directly comparable in terms of size and audience makeup.

invest like the best probably is the most directly comparable in terms of size and audience makeup.

14:57

Also founders and David Cenra,

Also founders and David Cenra,

15:00

who's and he's part of the colossus network with Patrick.

who's and he's part of the colossus network with Patrick.

15:04

Who else,

Who else,

15:06

Jason's other show this week in startups

Jason's other show this week in startups

15:09

that we go on all the time.

that we go on all the time.

15:11

Logan Bartlett has,

Logan Bartlett has,

15:13

a much smaller audience because he's much newer, but, like, a plus guests and really I mean, he's I think he's he's got the the most valuable niche of niche in terms of the people who listen to his show. Why? Because if he sees

a much smaller audience because he's much newer, but, like, a plus guests and really I mean, he's I think he's he's got the the most valuable niche of niche in terms of the people who listen to his show. Why? Because if he sees

15:27

It's like

It's like

15:29

Silicon Valley insiders

Silicon Valley insiders

15:31

for lack of a better. I mean, that's VCs, it's founders, but I think, like, his interviews, I always feel like he pulls out.

for lack of a better. I mean, that's VCs, it's founders, but I think, like, his interviews, I always feel like he pulls out.

15:38

Most valuable,

Most valuable,

15:39

geez.

geez.

15:41

Small boy stuff right there. Let me let me ask you a different question that I've actually never asked. So so you so David said something a second ago, which is kinda like the paraphrase would be, we made the podcast for people like us, or we made the podcast that we would wanna listen to. Is that fair to kind of summarize your your position, David? Hundred percent. And I feel like that with this podcast,

Small boy stuff right there. Let me let me ask you a different question that I've actually never asked. So so you so David said something a second ago, which is kinda like the paraphrase would be, we made the podcast for people like us, or we made the podcast that we would wanna listen to. Is that fair to kind of summarize your your position, David? Hundred percent. And I feel like that with this podcast,

16:02

I started the milk road that way, but it quickly transformed into like crypto news, which is actually not what I I actually, people know this. I've said this. I don't read or consume the news. So it's really funny that we made a news by thing. It got it big and then sold it, but, like, truthfully, it didn't end up becoming the thing that, like, I made this for me, for people like me out there. Sam, do you

I started the milk road that way, but it quickly transformed into like crypto news, which is actually not what I I actually, people know this. I've said this. I don't read or consume the news. So it's really funny that we made a news by thing. It got it big and then sold it, but, like, truthfully, it didn't end up becoming the thing that, like, I made this for me, for people like me out there. Sam, do you

16:24

subscribe to that? Like, I guess, like, in theory,

subscribe to that? Like, I guess, like, in theory,

16:28

You could say the best thing to do is to scratch your own itch to build the product you want be the, you know, making it for people like you, then you're not guessing. But then in practice, sometimes, you know, the mass market is not where you're at and you go for that. So what Sam, what's your take on that? I think we it started MFM started that way and it is mostly that way. Every once in a while, you know, Sean will be like, we need more views. Let's, like, get this guest. And sometimes we give into it. Sometimes we don't. The hustle started out because I like the news. And then about, two years in, I was like, I don't care about the news anymore, but this is my job, so I'm gonna keep doing it.

You could say the best thing to do is to scratch your own itch to build the product you want be the, you know, making it for people like you, then you're not guessing. But then in practice, sometimes, you know, the mass market is not where you're at and you go for that. So what Sam, what's your take on that? I think we it started MFM started that way and it is mostly that way. Every once in a while, you know, Sean will be like, we need more views. Let's, like, get this guest. And sometimes we give into it. Sometimes we don't. The hustle started out because I like the news. And then about, two years in, I was like, I don't care about the news anymore, but this is my job, so I'm gonna keep doing it.

17:02

I don't I don't I listen to zero business podcasts now. I basically only listen to like crime and fiction and things like that. And so I don't listen to business anymore. But I think this podcast has mostly stayed of just like, who what do I wanna do? What does Sean wanna do? Yeah. What do we wanna talk about? Yeah. The it's mostly stayed that way. But we we do, like, have to fight. Like, I was messaging Sean like this,

I don't I don't I listen to zero business podcasts now. I basically only listen to like crime and fiction and things like that. And so I don't listen to business anymore. But I think this podcast has mostly stayed of just like, who what do I wanna do? What does Sean wanna do? Yeah. What do we wanna talk about? Yeah. The it's mostly stayed that way. But we we do, like, have to fight. Like, I was messaging Sean like this,

17:23

this last night. And I was like, dude, we need to be stricter about our guests because we've had, like, a bunch of people, like, who asked to come on and we're like, yeah, they're huge. And then I'm like, wait, I don't give a shit about this person. I don't, like, I don't I wouldn't wanna have, like, if this person invited me over for dinner, I wouldn't be excited. And so we definitely have to fight that. I I would assume, you know, this is

this last night. And I was like, dude, we need to be stricter about our guests because we've had, like, a bunch of people, like, who asked to come on and we're like, yeah, they're huge. And then I'm like, wait, I don't give a shit about this person. I don't, like, I don't I wouldn't wanna have, like, if this person invited me over for dinner, I wouldn't be excited. And so we definitely have to fight that. I I would assume, you know, this is

17:42

we're realizing

we're realizing

17:43

that it's the case for us. Although it's different because we tell stories, but, for you guys, Like, the reason your audience is here is for you. Right? Like, it's not for

that it's the case for us. Although it's different because we tell stories, but, for you guys, Like, the reason your audience is here is for you. Right? Like, it's not for

17:52

your guests. Right?

your guests. Right?

17:54

Yeah. I think sometimes though the

Yeah. I think sometimes though the

17:56

the guests, you know, I I basically told Sam, I said, there's three three three or four types of guests. Four the here's the four that I think exists. There's the people that are like us. And they're just bringing a different, like, flavor, new fresh ideas. So, like, for example, when you guys first came on, you guys you got the shtick. You knew what we do on the podcast. I remember you guys came with a bunch of business ideas. You're like, oh, this Airbnb WiFi network. That's like, you know Oh my god. You remember even the the idea. Yeah. So does this all your face that I take back to me. Right? I got, like, the some people have photographic memory. I have a idea memory. I can remember any idea. So that was, like, you guys got the shtick, so you came on. You brought ideas, which was because D audience loves that. Steph Smith is a great example of this. She comes on, she brings ideas, people like her. Even though she's not the big name, you know, famous o CEO of X, She does an amazing job. So that's, like, number one. Number two is basically, like, they are the big name. So somebody who a bunch of people are gonna click on, it might bring new audience It's like you're legit famous in some way. Yep. You had a pump on recently. Yeah. Well, how he would be three which is internet famous. Oh. There's like legit famous. It's like, you know, they're they've

the guests, you know, I I basically told Sam, I said, there's three three three or four types of guests. Four the here's the four that I think exists. There's the people that are like us. And they're just bringing a different, like, flavor, new fresh ideas. So, like, for example, when you guys first came on, you guys you got the shtick. You knew what we do on the podcast. I remember you guys came with a bunch of business ideas. You're like, oh, this Airbnb WiFi network. That's like, you know Oh my god. You remember even the the idea. Yeah. So does this all your face that I take back to me. Right? I got, like, the some people have photographic memory. I have a idea memory. I can remember any idea. So that was, like, you guys got the shtick, so you came on. You brought ideas, which was because D audience loves that. Steph Smith is a great example of this. She comes on, she brings ideas, people like her. Even though she's not the big name, you know, famous o CEO of X, She does an amazing job. So that's, like, number one. Number two is basically, like, they are the big name. So somebody who a bunch of people are gonna click on, it might bring new audience It's like you're legit famous in some way. Yep. You had a pump on recently. Yeah. Well, how he would be three which is internet famous. Oh. There's like legit famous. It's like, you know, they're they've

18:59

that kind of, like, outside of My payer's Hilton or something. Yeah. Like, they don't have a podcast or they don't have a newsletter. They don't have, like, an internet community. They're just, like, famous famous. Then there's your internet famous. And the last one is personal,

that kind of, like, outside of My payer's Hilton or something. Yeah. Like, they don't have a podcast or they don't have a newsletter. They don't have, like, an internet community. They're just, like, famous famous. Then there's your internet famous. And the last one is personal,

19:10

like, we wanna nerd out with them. And so that would be, like Like, Ariel Hawaiani. Yeah. We we had ariel Hawaiian on, like, I don't know how much of our audience cared about that, but I cared. I wanted to have that conversation.

like, we wanna nerd out with them. And so that would be, like Like, Ariel Hawaiani. Yeah. We we had ariel Hawaiian on, like, I don't know how much of our audience cared about that, but I cared. I wanted to have that conversation.

19:20

And we've had, you know, Sam was like, oh, this guy can write out is awesome. He's like this fifty year old, like, marathon record breaker guy, like, I just wanna talk to him. And it's like, great. Let's do that. So it's kinda like,

And we've had, you know, Sam was like, oh, this guy can write out is awesome. He's like this fifty year old, like, marathon record breaker guy, like, I just wanna talk to him. And it's like, great. Let's do that. So it's kinda like,

19:30

we are gonna be so into the conversation.

we are gonna be so into the conversation.

19:33

And we are sure that this person's interesting to us. It'll be interesting to some portion of the audience. And so it's like, to us, those are the four. And I think the one you get tripped up on the most is

And we are sure that this person's interesting to us. It'll be interesting to some portion of the audience. And so it's like, to us, those are the four. And I think the one you get tripped up on the most is

19:42

just the the legit famous person because they they don't actually listen to the pod. They may not bring bring the juice. And it's almost like the expectations are high, and you almost disappoint it's like, oh, alright. Well, that was kind of a lame conversation with that person.

just the the legit famous person because they they don't actually listen to the pod. They may not bring bring the juice. And it's almost like the expectations are high, and you almost disappoint it's like, oh, alright. Well, that was kind of a lame conversation with that person.

19:56

And they don't have any of their own distribution. The nice thing about internet famous is at least they can help distribute the content. But real, regular famous people, it's like unless they're getting put in people magazine or cast in the latest movie, they actually have no way to reach an audience directly. Yeah. You know who does that for us is Dharmesh, the founder of HubSpot. Every time he comes on, he get his episodes get really popular.

And they don't have any of their own distribution. The nice thing about internet famous is at least they can help distribute the content. But real, regular famous people, it's like unless they're getting put in people magazine or cast in the latest movie, they actually have no way to reach an audience directly. Yeah. You know who does that for us is Dharmesh, the founder of HubSpot. Every time he comes on, he get his episodes get really popular.

20:17

And he's always doing he is popular and his content is great. And also, he always does some internet marketing stuff where he he's kills it. He kills him for us every time. That's that's the best kind of guest that'll come on and promote. Right. And he pays the bills too. So he's the sponsor. He's the guest. He drives the growth. Oh, yeah. Does it all? Dimesh. Come on, acquired.

And he's always doing he is popular and his content is great. And also, he always does some internet marketing stuff where he he's kills it. He kills him for us every time. That's that's the best kind of guest that'll come on and promote. Right. And he pays the bills too. So he's the sponsor. He's the guest. He drives the growth. Oh, yeah. Does it all? Dimesh. Come on, acquired.

20:39

The crazy thing we noticed about guests recently, just looking at our analytics, and the the

The crazy thing we noticed about guests recently, just looking at our analytics, and the the

20:44

Two things, and both of them are true one hundred percent of the time without fail. One?

Two things, and both of them are true one hundred percent of the time without fail. One?

20:51

Every single time we set a new episode record, it is an episode that is, like, just David and I doing Nintendo, LVMH, Berkshire Hathaway, like, our canonical

Every single time we set a new episode record, it is an episode that is, like, just David and I doing Nintendo, LVMH, Berkshire Hathaway, like, our canonical

21:00

three hour format.

three hour format.

21:02

And two, every single time we have a guest on, it is

And two, every single time we have a guest on, it is

21:07

less listened to than our previous episode.

less listened to than our previous episode.

21:10

Yeah. Right. Interesting.

Yeah. Right. Interesting.

21:12

Just last question is how do you guys prepare for that? Do you just, like, both read the same book and take notes and then just tell a story?

Just last question is how do you guys prepare for that? Do you just, like, both read the same book and take notes and then just tell a story?

21:19

We mostly read different stuff, but,

We mostly read different stuff, but,

21:21

we've kinda architected. I mean, this is our, like,

we've kinda architected. I mean, this is our, like,

21:25

our differentiation as a show. Which is so anti all the rules of podcasting, but I think is what makes us special is we have carved out that, like, we can take a month in our lives.

our differentiation as a show. Which is so anti all the rules of podcasting, but I think is what makes us special is we have carved out that, like, we can take a month in our lives.

21:37

And

And

21:38

do, you know, it's kinda like if you are writing a term paper in college. Like, we can do the research

do, you know, it's kinda like if you are writing a term paper in college. Like, we can do the research

21:44

independently each of us on a company on a topic. And then we come together, and it's like, I don't know. It's like a thesis defense or something that we do. And your goal is Like, between the two of us to have basically consumed every piece of content on the company. Like, every other podcast that's ever been done, all the big books that have been written, all the talk given by the founder, try and find a bunch of weird stuff, like talks given at industry conferences that have low view counts on YouTube. Obviously, read all the sources of all wikipedia page for the companies. It's basically like, no one should be able to DM us after the episode and be like, oh, did you

independently each of us on a company on a topic. And then we come together, and it's like, I don't know. It's like a thesis defense or something that we do. And your goal is Like, between the two of us to have basically consumed every piece of content on the company. Like, every other podcast that's ever been done, all the big books that have been written, all the talk given by the founder, try and find a bunch of weird stuff, like talks given at industry conferences that have low view counts on YouTube. Obviously, read all the sources of all wikipedia page for the companies. It's basically like, no one should be able to DM us after the episode and be like, oh, did you

22:17

Did you see this important piece of information on the company? We we wanna always be, like, defensively.

Did you see this important piece of information on the company? We we wanna always be, like, defensively.

22:23

No. We have consumed everything about this company. And I think, like, I think the magic is that, like, if we

No. We have consumed everything about this company. And I think, like, I think the magic is that, like, if we

22:29

if the output of that were a term paper, it would be really boring and nobody would read it. But because the output of that is Ben and I as really good friends, like, talking about it. Like, that kinda makes -- Right. -- magical. Yeah. The phrase we've been noodling on is conversational audiobooks.

if the output of that were a term paper, it would be really boring and nobody would read it. But because the output of that is Ben and I as really good friends, like, talking about it. Like, that kinda makes -- Right. -- magical. Yeah. The phrase we've been noodling on is conversational audiobooks.

22:44

Oh, that's cool. To describe what it is. Are there any odd commonalities that you've seen amongst like the savages that you've done stories on? So for example, Ben Wilson has you know, he does, how to take over the world, and it's historical figures. And he's, like, you know, it's weird, John Rockefeller, Edison, and Napoleon, a bunch of these other people, They ate really lightly. Like, they didn't eat a ton of food because they said that when they overate, they felt brain fog and, but for a bunch of different reasons, Are there any, strange commonalities that you've you've found amongst, like, these conquerors of the world?

Oh, that's cool. To describe what it is. Are there any odd commonalities that you've seen amongst like the savages that you've done stories on? So for example, Ben Wilson has you know, he does, how to take over the world, and it's historical figures. And he's, like, you know, it's weird, John Rockefeller, Edison, and Napoleon, a bunch of these other people, They ate really lightly. Like, they didn't eat a ton of food because they said that when they overate, they felt brain fog and, but for a bunch of different reasons, Are there any, strange commonalities that you've you've found amongst, like, these conquerors of the world?

23:17

Well, we talk more about companies than we do about people. Like, Ben and David Center over at founders, like, or or companies. Yeah. Or or companies.

Well, we talk more about companies than we do about people. Like, Ben and David Center over at founders, like, or or companies. Yeah. Or or companies.

23:26

I mean, it's the classic, like, being contrarian and right, and you have to be both contrarian and right. But the people that we're studying and the companies that we're studying are such extreme outliers. Like, they're such the they're they're forced standard deviations from the mean in terms of, like, how did a company do? And so

I mean, it's the classic, like, being contrarian and right, and you have to be both contrarian and right. But the people that we're studying and the companies that we're studying are such extreme outliers. Like, they're such the they're they're forced standard deviations from the mean in terms of, like, how did a company do? And so

23:44

they

they

23:45

were

were

23:46

they're sort of like an n of one. Like, there's one TSMC in the world. There's one LVMH who owns all the most valuable luxury brands, except hermes,

they're sort of like an n of one. Like, there's one TSMC in the world. There's one LVMH who owns all the most valuable luxury brands, except hermes,

23:55

and

and

23:57

it sort of happens in a unique way every time. And so I guess the The biggest takeaway for me is, like,

it sort of happens in a unique way every time. And so I guess the The biggest takeaway for me is, like,

24:04

it usually is the founder doing something that, like, literally everybody else had left for dead. And and and when I say that, I mean, like Bernard Arneau going and buying Christian Dior from the French government out of bankruptcy in

it usually is the founder doing something that, like, literally everybody else had left for dead. And and and when I say that, I mean, like Bernard Arneau going and buying Christian Dior from the French government out of bankruptcy in

24:18

when was that? The eighties, David? Oh, eighties. Yep. Or, like, literally no no one else was bidding on this, like, dead asset or,

when was that? The eighties, David? Oh, eighties. Yep. Or, like, literally no no one else was bidding on this, like, dead asset or,

24:26

the the example for starting TSMC is, like, zero other people thought that you should be starting

the the example for starting TSMC is, like, zero other people thought that you should be starting

24:33

a foundry when you have no chip IP to make other people's

a foundry when you have no chip IP to make other people's

24:37

chip designs. Like, that was there was zero other people that thought that was gonna be successful. Like, there is no there is no formula every story is unique, but

chip designs. Like, that was there was zero other people that thought that was gonna be successful. Like, there is no there is no formula every story is unique, but

24:45

a big, big category

a big, big category

24:46

is, like, something that has been left for dead. For, like, sometimes it's inventing something new whole cloth, but, like, really big category is, like, Oh, this thing is over and done with. David Nintendo. Yeah. Nintendo Google, like Video game crash of of nineteen eighty three. Like, The market for video games in the United States went from three billion dollars to a hundred million dollars over the course of two years. Everybody was running screaming from the industry thought, oh, video games were a fad and it's over. And then you have Nintendo that comes in, launches the NES, and then within five years, has ninety five percent market share and has grown the industry back to a three billion dollar industry. It seems like,

is, like, something that has been left for dead. For, like, sometimes it's inventing something new whole cloth, but, like, really big category is, like, Oh, this thing is over and done with. David Nintendo. Yeah. Nintendo Google, like Video game crash of of nineteen eighty three. Like, The market for video games in the United States went from three billion dollars to a hundred million dollars over the course of two years. Everybody was running screaming from the industry thought, oh, video games were a fad and it's over. And then you have Nintendo that comes in, launches the NES, and then within five years, has ninety five percent market share and has grown the industry back to a three billion dollar industry. It seems like,

25:23

nut job bets.

nut job bets.

25:25

Has that has that, like, given you guys any confidence to succeed, you think? Like, because Sean and I talked to all these awesome people. And, like, we'll talk to there there are a handful of people I I said this a bunch. There's a handful of people who we talk to and we say, oh, you're definitely, like, significantly

Has that has that, like, given you guys any confidence to succeed, you think? Like, because Sean and I talked to all these awesome people. And, like, we'll talk to there there are a handful of people I I said this a bunch. There's a handful of people who we talk to and we say, oh, you're definitely, like, significantly

25:42

smarter than we are. Or you're you're a significant you have this part that's more significant than us. And then there's other people who will talk to that are worth hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and it's like, well, you're not, like, twenty times smarter than us, even though you're twenty times richer, but, like, you might be a little bit or sometimes a little bit less, and that's given us confidence at least me, for sure, because I'm like, oh, you definitely are insecure.

smarter than we are. Or you're you're a significant you have this part that's more significant than us. And then there's other people who will talk to that are worth hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and it's like, well, you're not, like, twenty times smarter than us, even though you're twenty times richer, but, like, you might be a little bit or sometimes a little bit less, and that's given us confidence at least me, for sure, because I'm like, oh, you definitely are insecure.

26:04

You,

You,

26:05

question yourself, you doubt yourself, but you still went through with it. Good question. Like, I know how to be contrarian. I'm not sure I know how to be right yet. Like

question yourself, you doubt yourself, but you still went through with it. Good question. Like, I know how to be contrarian. I'm not sure I know how to be right yet. Like

26:14

Over halfway there, baby?

Over halfway there, baby?

26:16

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I I I, you know, we know how to make everyone tells you you should make short podcasts that release every single week and you should have guests on to help build your audience. And we do basically none of those things. And everything that has worked for us is doing the exact opposite of those. And so does that mean keep doing the opposite of every piece of advice everyone gives you? Because that's the path to success, I don't think so. But if we overfit to the data that we've observed so far, that is what it would look like. And so I I'm hesitant to, like, keep being contrarian for the sense of being contrarian, but but it I think that the important part that comes with this is, like, having a iterative feedback loop with your customers or in our case with our listeners to understand, like, what makes you love this, and how do we lean harder into that? And and sort of shut out general advice and pay more attention to, like,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I I I, you know, we know how to make everyone tells you you should make short podcasts that release every single week and you should have guests on to help build your audience. And we do basically none of those things. And everything that has worked for us is doing the exact opposite of those. And so does that mean keep doing the opposite of every piece of advice everyone gives you? Because that's the path to success, I don't think so. But if we overfit to the data that we've observed so far, that is what it would look like. And so I I'm hesitant to, like, keep being contrarian for the sense of being contrarian, but but it I think that the important part that comes with this is, like, having a iterative feedback loop with your customers or in our case with our listeners to understand, like, what makes you love this, and how do we lean harder into that? And and sort of shut out general advice and pay more attention to, like,

27:05

the the the things our customers are expressing. By the way, I picked up a little poker tell on

the the the things our customers are expressing. By the way, I picked up a little poker tell on

27:10

people who, on contract how do you tell a real contrarian versus a wannabe contrarian? This is a hotel I picked up over time, which is. Yeah. Yeah.

people who, on contract how do you tell a real contrarian versus a wannabe contrarian? This is a hotel I picked up over time, which is. Yeah. Yeah.

27:19

In the tech world, I think, because of Peter Teal, there's this, like, kind of, like, real sex appeal to -- That is deserved. -- to be contrary.

In the tech world, I think, because of Peter Teal, there's this, like, kind of, like, real sex appeal to -- That is deserved. -- to be contrary.

27:27

And, If you put it in your Twitter bio, you're probably not it. Yeah. Exactly.

And, If you put it in your Twitter bio, you're probably not it. Yeah. Exactly.

27:31

Same with polymath. Yeah. Polymath's another one of

Same with polymath. Yeah. Polymath's another one of

27:35

as being more visionary as being as being said, I've joked about, like, or, like, if you're an engineer being, like, slightly on the spectrum. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. That's another indicator of success. It's like, here we go.

as being more visionary as being as being said, I've joked about, like, or, like, if you're an engineer being, like, slightly on the spectrum. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. That's another indicator of success. It's like, here we go.

27:46

The one that is,

The one that is,

27:48

I think, tell when it comes to being contrarian is how excited are you that you have this contrarian idea? Because that shows people who are contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Meaning, like, they're really excited to tell you how the I think everybody else thinks a, but it's actually b.

I think, tell when it comes to being contrarian is how excited are you that you have this contrarian idea? Because that shows people who are contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Meaning, like, they're really excited to tell you how the I think everybody else thinks a, but it's actually b.

28:05

Whereas the real people I've seen that are contrarian, they just see a,

Whereas the real people I've seen that are contrarian, they just see a,

28:09

and they're almost like, I'm confused why people don't think a, a is clearly right.

and they're almost like, I'm confused why people don't think a, a is clearly right.

28:16

They're they don't spend time trying to, like, convince the whole world of it. Like, you know, if if they're asked, they tell the truth. And then when people react in a big way, like, oh, man, I can't believe you think that. And they're like, I can't believe you don't think that. It just seems like the truth to them. And so that's what I've noticed is, like, if you if you watch old videos of, like, you know, Peter Tiel talking or, like, I think Ballology is is somebody who's like this today.

They're they don't spend time trying to, like, convince the whole world of it. Like, you know, if if they're asked, they tell the truth. And then when people react in a big way, like, oh, man, I can't believe you think that. And they're like, I can't believe you don't think that. It just seems like the truth to them. And so that's what I've noticed is, like, if you if you watch old videos of, like, you know, Peter Tiel talking or, like, I think Ballology is is somebody who's like this today.

28:38

They they

They they

28:39

They're happy to explain their point of view, and they explain it, like, this is just what's gonna happen or this is what I I believe to be true, but they don't

They're happy to explain their point of view, and they explain it, like, this is just what's gonna happen or this is what I I believe to be true, but they don't

28:49

get high on the idea of

get high on the idea of

28:51

of being contrarian. It's a subtle difference. As a bunch of people I've met in real life that that I kind of I've noticed this on. It's hard to explain, but you'll see next time you kind of run into somebody who's who's over eager and over excited about the fact that they have this contrarian opinion

of being contrarian. It's a subtle difference. As a bunch of people I've met in real life that that I kind of I've noticed this on. It's hard to explain, but you'll see next time you kind of run into somebody who's who's over eager and over excited about the fact that they have this contrarian opinion

29:04

It's they're kinda just performing socially versus they actually believe that. It reminds me a lot of, it's like we all know this guy girl who likes the idea of a relationship more than they like their current relationship.

It's they're kinda just performing socially versus they actually believe that. It reminds me a lot of, it's like we all know this guy girl who likes the idea of a relationship more than they like their current relationship.

29:16

And they're they're very excited to, like, have this particular style, and you can sort of tell you're into that new lifestyle you have more than the person you're actually with. Right. So Right. Did you want a boyfriend or did you want Right? Like, do who who rejection won here.

And they're they're very excited to, like, have this particular style, and you can sort of tell you're into that new lifestyle you have more than the person you're actually with. Right. So Right. Did you want a boyfriend or did you want Right? Like, do who who rejection won here.

29:31

Let me tell the story. It's interesting though. Like, oh, yeah. Go ahead. I was just gonna tell one on the thing, Sam, you talked about, like, what are the interesting success patterns.

Let me tell the story. It's interesting though. Like, oh, yeah. Go ahead. I was just gonna tell one on the thing, Sam, you talked about, like, what are the interesting success patterns.

29:39

It reminded me of an experience I had,

It reminded me of an experience I had,

29:41

a while back. I went to China

a while back. I went to China

29:44

I was maybe twenty one years old and got to go to the Alibaba, like Alibaba flew out a bunch of entrepreneurs

I was maybe twenty one years old and got to go to the Alibaba, like Alibaba flew out a bunch of entrepreneurs

29:49

to go, like, meet with. It was supposed to be Jack Ma, but we ended up meeting with the guy David Way who's their Jack Moss right hand man. He was the guy who was running Alibaba at the time. And I I didn't even know what Alibaba was. Like, Alibaba was a big deal, like, now. I mean, now I'm like, Now I would have taken that really seriously. I I had no idea who they were at the time. And we get there and somebody asked them this question. They raised their hand. They go, what do you think is the most orton things for success,

to go, like, meet with. It was supposed to be Jack Ma, but we ended up meeting with the guy David Way who's their Jack Moss right hand man. He was the guy who was running Alibaba at the time. And I I didn't even know what Alibaba was. Like, Alibaba was a big deal, like, now. I mean, now I'm like, Now I would have taken that really seriously. I I had no idea who they were at the time. And we get there and somebody asked them this question. They raised their hand. They go, what do you think is the most orton things for success,

30:13

for the success of a company. Alibaba is a multi billion dollar company.

for the success of a company. Alibaba is a multi billion dollar company.

30:17

You know, what what made it successful? And he goes,

You know, what what made it successful? And he goes,

30:21

He

He

30:23

goes, models for success are misleading. They cannot be copied due to the, like, unique combination of luck timing, all these other things. But he goes, but what you can ask me is a better question, which is what are the common keys to failure? And he goes, they're always the same. And he goes, we study the the things that lead to failure and just tried to avoid those. So he goes, so you know, I leaned in. I was like, please blow my mind, sir. Go ahead. Yeah. And he's like,

goes, models for success are misleading. They cannot be copied due to the, like, unique combination of luck timing, all these other things. But he goes, but what you can ask me is a better question, which is what are the common keys to failure? And he goes, they're always the same. And he goes, we study the the things that lead to failure and just tried to avoid those. So he goes, so you know, I leaned in. I was like, please blow my mind, sir. Go ahead. Yeah. And he's like,

30:47

He goes, there's three things that lead to failure. Money plans and technology.

He goes, there's three things that lead to failure. Money plans and technology.

30:51

He goes, so our plan was no money, no plans, no and I go, what? And and, like, this is crazy because, like, a tech company worth, like, forty billion dollars. Like, what are you talking about? And he goes, Hey, so I get he goes, alright. Here we go. Money. Money makes people stupid. And when problems come up, their first thing sync becomes throw money at it rather than attacking it with creativity.

He goes, so our plan was no money, no plans, no and I go, what? And and, like, this is crazy because, like, a tech company worth, like, forty billion dollars. Like, what are you talking about? And he goes, Hey, so I get he goes, alright. Here we go. Money. Money makes people stupid. And when problems come up, their first thing sync becomes throw money at it rather than attacking it with creativity.

31:11

So, basically,

So, basically,

31:12

way back when Google was,

way back when Google was,

31:15

Google was, like, dominating with AdWords. And so they're the people at Alibaba were, like, we need to make our version of AdWords.

Google was, like, dominating with AdWords. And so they're the people at Alibaba were, like, we need to make our version of AdWords.

31:21

And he goes, you know, this is no order. It's like, you know, building this type of ad network is not, like, super simple.

And he goes, you know, this is no order. It's like, you know, building this type of ad network is not, like, super simple.

31:27

He goes, so Jack, cut a check for two hundred fifty thousand dollars to build project. And Latim, like, laughed. Like, you're you're missing three zeros on the back of this. Like, what are you talking about? Two hundred fifty k. And he goes, That's how much money it took me to start Alibaba.

He goes, so Jack, cut a check for two hundred fifty thousand dollars to build project. And Latim, like, laughed. Like, you're you're missing three zeros on the back of this. Like, what are you talking about? Two hundred fifty k. And he goes, That's how much money it took me to start Alibaba.

31:41

Like, I I I had less than that starting the whole company. So if you need more than that for a feature, we're doing it wrong. He's like, they're like, well, how are we supposed to do this? He goes, do exactly what I did with Alibaba. He's like, so he moved nineteen people into his apartment where he had started out. He's like, that's your office. You're gonna work there. He's like, you need, servers to to run the ad servers. Cool. Go find some. Like, go get some used junk servers and, like, re rig them, get them refurbish them and make them work. And they go, but there's no redundancy. He goes, If you're building

Like, I I I had less than that starting the whole company. So if you need more than that for a feature, we're doing it wrong. He's like, they're like, well, how are we supposed to do this? He goes, do exactly what I did with Alibaba. He's like, so he moved nineteen people into his apartment where he had started out. He's like, that's your office. You're gonna work there. He's like, you need, servers to to run the ad servers. Cool. Go find some. Like, go get some used junk servers and, like, re rig them, get them refurbish them and make them work. And they go, but there's no redundancy. He goes, If you're building

32:11

with you where you need redundancy,

with you where you need redundancy,

32:13

like, we've we've done this wrong. Right? Like, you know, this is you need to build build this so that it works without redundancy first.

like, we've we've done this wrong. Right? Like, you know, this is you need to build build this so that it works without redundancy first.

32:19

And, and so he he did that for those are those are the no money. Then he's like, no technology. He's like, everybody wants to call us a tech company. No. We are a service company. We're here to serve our users. If you don't think of yourself, like, you're in the service industry, you're in the wrong industry.

And, and so he he did that for those are those are the no money. Then he's like, no technology. He's like, everybody wants to call us a tech company. No. We are a service company. We're here to serve our users. If you don't think of yourself, like, you're in the service industry, you're in the wrong industry.

32:33

And, this last one was plan. And it's like, alright, well, dude, how'd you do this, like, Why no plans? Why are plans bad? He goes,

And, this last one was plan. And it's like, alright, well, dude, how'd you do this, like, Why no plans? Why are plans bad? He goes,

32:41

he goes, well, you know, you guys are fifty young entrepreneurs who got flown out here. To do this. I I assume in America, you guys have done something good. Otherwise, why would we have picked you? He goes, how many of you are doing what you initially plan to do?

he goes, well, you know, you guys are fifty young entrepreneurs who got flown out here. To do this. I I assume in America, you guys have done something good. Otherwise, why would we have picked you? He goes, how many of you are doing what you initially plan to do?

32:54

And, like, nobody's hand went up. And he was, like, exactly.

And, like, nobody's hand went up. And he was, like, exactly.

32:57

And he goes,

And he goes,

32:59

plan is plans are fine, but they always change. That's the only thing we know about plans. The mission never waivers. Sometimes you'll need a plan to get others to believe, but remember, you should not believe that plan. You should follow your gut and adapt constantly to the circumstances.

plan is plans are fine, but they always change. That's the only thing we know about plans. The mission never waivers. Sometimes you'll need a plan to get others to believe, but remember, you should not believe that plan. You should follow your gut and adapt constantly to the circumstances.

33:12

Don't follow the plan you wrote when you started. Follow your mission. Follow your vision. Follow the why. If you do that, you will be successful. And I was like, damn,

Don't follow the plan you wrote when you started. Follow your mission. Follow your vision. Follow the why. If you do that, you will be successful. And I was like, damn,

33:20

Did you write all this down? Yeah. You remotes it. So so many years ago after that after that event, I wrote I tried to write a book in, like, two weeks. And I wrote half of it. And so this was one of my chapters in that book.

Did you write all this down? Yeah. You remotes it. So so many years ago after that after that event, I wrote I tried to write a book in, like, two weeks. And I wrote half of it. And so this was one of my chapters in that book.

33:34

And I just found the PDF of my computer when you were talking about this. Awesome. That's hilarious. That's amazing that you did that because that was years ago. What a great story. It's so applicable. I love that that's applicable

And I just found the PDF of my computer when you were talking about this. Awesome. That's hilarious. That's amazing that you did that because that was years ago. What a great story. It's so applicable. I love that that's applicable

33:44

to Alibaba.

to Alibaba.

33:46

Just as much as, like, I'm thinking about you guys and us and, like, how we started the conversation. Like, yeah, we had no money. We had guess we had technology in that, like, podcasting and the internet is inherent leverage. It wasn't like you're We're building a tech company or we're building a product. It was like, no. It's like, expecting something. And we have no plan. Yeah.

Just as much as, like, I'm thinking about you guys and us and, like, how we started the conversation. Like, yeah, we had no money. We had guess we had technology in that, like, podcasting and the internet is inherent leverage. It wasn't like you're We're building a tech company or we're building a product. It was like, no. It's like, expecting something. And we have no plan. Yeah.

34:06

Like, it's funny. Like, I

Like, it's funny. Like, I

34:08

we see a lot. I'm sure you guys do too. People come to us like, oh, how do I start a podcast? How do I start a successful podcast? We see, like, big companies come, the, like, offline celebrities that wanna start podcasts. And it's like, they come with money technology in a plan and they're like,

we see a lot. I'm sure you guys do too. People come to us like, oh, how do I start a podcast? How do I start a successful podcast? We see, like, big companies come, the, like, offline celebrities that wanna start podcasts. And it's like, they come with money technology in a plan and they're like,

34:25

it's not how it's gonna work. That it's gonna suck. Oh, you guys probably see this with your episodes. Like, how many of them started doing what they're doing. Like, I I don't know. I haven't listened to all the recent ones, but, like, I don't know. Was Nintendo what were you thinking of Nintendo today, or did it Oh, no. Nintendo

it's not how it's gonna work. That it's gonna suck. Oh, you guys probably see this with your episodes. Like, how many of them started doing what they're doing. Like, I I don't know. I haven't listened to all the recent ones, but, like, I don't know. Was Nintendo what were you thinking of Nintendo today, or did it Oh, no. Nintendo

34:39

was making Wait. Wait. Real quick. Do either of you know the origin story of Nintendo

was making Wait. Wait. Real quick. Do either of you know the origin story of Nintendo

34:43

or or have a guess at how old Nintendo is? I think it's really all. I remember reading it once don't I don't remember off top of my head, but it was is it like Sony or where they were like selling rice or something? And then that now they're who they are? It's even better. Yeah. It's a hundred and thirty year old company.

or or have a guess at how old Nintendo is? I think it's really all. I remember reading it once don't I don't remember off top of my head, but it was is it like Sony or where they were like selling rice or something? And then that now they're who they are? It's even better. Yeah. It's a hundred and thirty year old company.

34:57

Yeah. Started in, what, eighteen ninety. Eighteen eighty nine, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. Started in, what, eighteen ninety. Eighteen eighty nine, I think. Yeah.

35:01

And

And

35:02

their original business

their original business

35:04

was making Hanafuda cards,

was making Hanafuda cards,

35:07

which is the Japanese version

which is the Japanese version

35:09

of US playing cards, but US playing cards were illegal

of US playing cards, but US playing cards were illegal

35:13

to import like, because people from the US could work it was not legal to be in the country.

to import like, because people from the US could work it was not legal to be in the country.

35:19

And, David, I think you at this point, they literally would execute you Yeah. You came in. Well, Nintendo started to spread after this, but before the May g restoration,

And, David, I think you at this point, they literally would execute you Yeah. You came in. Well, Nintendo started to spread after this, but before the May g restoration,

35:27

like Japan went through this multi hundred year period of strict isolationism

like Japan went through this multi hundred year period of strict isolationism

35:31

where, like, You would be executed if you were a foreigner and you entered the country.

where, like, You would be executed if you were a foreigner and you entered the country.

35:36

Likewise, if you were a Japanese person and you left the country and came back, you would also be you did. Like,

Likewise, if you were a Japanese person and you left the country and came back, you would also be you did. Like,

35:42

since But, like, playing cards are this thing that, like, has product market fits. They're like, how do we do things like playing cards? Universal human need. So it literally started making hanafuda cards and their distribution channel was through the yakuza to illegal casinos.

since But, like, playing cards are this thing that, like, has product market fits. They're like, how do we do things like playing cards? Universal human need. So it literally started making hanafuda cards and their distribution channel was through the yakuza to illegal casinos.

35:56

Yeah. Yakuza being like the mafia. The Japanese mafia. Yeah. Yeah. They started making these playing cards and, like, a very small part of the market was like, oh, you have a pack of playing cards in your house, but just like, everywhere else in the world, the market is casinos because you use a fresh deck for each. Right. And so that there's no cheating.

Yeah. Yakuza being like the mafia. The Japanese mafia. Yeah. Yeah. They started making these playing cards and, like, a very small part of the market was like, oh, you have a pack of playing cards in your house, but just like, everywhere else in the world, the market is casinos because you use a fresh deck for each. Right. And so that there's no cheating.

36:14

Yeah. So Nintendo was, like, deeply embedded with the Acusa. And for like sixty years, this was their business before they started making toys.

Yeah. So Nintendo was, like, deeply embedded with the Acusa. And for like sixty years, this was their business before they started making toys.

36:21

Wow. And then what some, like, visionary within the company was like, hey, this new thing is called. Crazy

Wow. And then what some, like, visionary within the company was like, hey, this new thing is called. Crazy

36:27

family,

family,

36:28

like,

like,

36:29

really tragedy of, like, this cycle of,

really tragedy of, like, this cycle of,

36:33

death and,

death and,

36:34

just, like, terrible parenting in the family. This is passed down to four generations of same family, but actually not the same family because they had no sons and they needed sons. So they were marrying their daughters off to people who could take over the the business Yeah. Exactly. And, one of these guys

just, like, terrible parenting in the family. This is passed down to four generations of same family, but actually not the same family because they had no sons and they needed sons. So they were marrying their daughters off to people who could take over the the business Yeah. Exactly. And, one of these guys

36:48

was basically just like so pissed off at, like, the family legacy

was basically just like so pissed off at, like, the family legacy

36:52

that, this is Roshi Yamuji, who started the modern Nintendo.

that, this is Roshi Yamuji, who started the modern Nintendo.

36:56

And he was like, I only wanted to first buy the business. I wanna get out of this. And he did a partnership with Disney.

And he was like, I only wanted to first buy the business. I wanna get out of this. And he did a partnership with Disney.

37:02

In nineteen fifty nine. Yeah. Nineteen fifty nine, he Nintendo

In nineteen fifty nine. Yeah. Nineteen fifty nine, he Nintendo

37:07

brought Disney and Disney IP into Japan post World War two.

brought Disney and Disney IP into Japan post World War two.

37:12

I literally have the cards. Some acquired fans sent them to me. Oh, wow. Started with

I literally have the cards. Some acquired fans sent them to me. Oh, wow. Started with

37:18

Yeah. And then they brought toys and then they started making their own toys because they had, like, lock on the retail distributors

Yeah. And then they brought toys and then they started making their own toys because they had, like, lock on the retail distributors

37:25

yeah. Wow. So started as cards and they were like, then they went, said to all these,

yeah. Wow. So started as cards and they were like, then they went, said to all these,

37:30

retailers. They were like, oh, you want the Disney products? You're gonna take our products too. Was that too many cricket? As the Joker? Jim

retailers. They were like, oh, you want the Disney products? You're gonna take our products too. Was that too many cricket? As the Joker? Jim

37:36

Jiminy cricket as the Joker and Mickey Mouse golfing on this old school card deck. That's amazing. Like you gotta wear that with you gotta wear gloves if you're gonna touch that or something. That's like a a seriously ancient artifact.

Jiminy cricket as the Joker and Mickey Mouse golfing on this old school card deck. That's amazing. Like you gotta wear that with you gotta wear gloves if you're gonna touch that or something. That's like a a seriously ancient artifact.

37:48

This data is wrong.

This data is wrong.

37:50

Time.

Time.

37:51

Have you heard of HubSpot?

Have you heard of HubSpot?

37:54

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Well, I can see the client's whole history call, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago I totally missed.

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Well, I can see the client's whole history call, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago I totally missed.

38:06

HubSpot,

HubSpot,

38:06

grow better.

grow better.

38:08

Can I ask you guys a couple rapid fire questions?

Can I ask you guys a couple rapid fire questions?

38:13

About some of the companies that you've you've discussed. Number one,

About some of the companies that you've you've discussed. Number one,

38:16

Which company of all of everyone that you've,

Which company of all of everyone that you've,

38:19

went over,

went over,

38:21

would you want to own? Like, which which what's what's the one that you envy?

would you want to own? Like, which which what's what's the one that you envy?

38:25

Well, that way, those are two different questions. Which would you want to, like, own the stock of and which do you want or which do you wanna, like, be an investor in or or actually own the company? Yeah. Yeah. The second. Actually own. And which one do you envy most?

Well, that way, those are two different questions. Which would you want to, like, own the stock of and which do you want or which do you wanna, like, be an investor in or or actually own the company? Yeah. Yeah. The second. Actually own. And which one do you envy most?

38:39

Actually

Actually

38:40

own, I think, is the NFL.

own, I think, is the NFL.

38:43

Yeah. I think that has

Yeah. I think that has

38:46

the most,

the most,

38:47

like, durable franchise.

like, durable franchise.

38:49

And Own is always a funny question because what's your entry price? Like, do I have to buy stuff at today's prices or but if I think about sort of, like, durability of the asset and I sort of ignore,

And Own is always a funny question because what's your entry price? Like, do I have to buy stuff at today's prices or but if I think about sort of, like, durability of the asset and I sort of ignore,

38:58

where things are trading and what market values today,

where things are trading and what market values today,

39:02

The NFL

The NFL

39:03

is

is

39:04

seven layers of entrenched

seven layers of entrenched

39:06

in our society and to be an American at this point means to have the NFL in your life. And

in our society and to be an American at this point means to have the NFL in your life. And

39:13

they also, David, you pointed this out on our episode. Everyone thinks it's really cute to, like, stack rank all the the media franchise is Marvel's worth this. And, you know, all the way at the top of the charts, Pokemon worth this. But, like, the NFL is worth so much more than any of those. The NFL TV contract alone is twelve billion dollars a year. The most recent set of rights they personal up was, like, a hundred billion.

they also, David, you pointed this out on our episode. Everyone thinks it's really cute to, like, stack rank all the the media franchise is Marvel's worth this. And, you know, all the way at the top of the charts, Pokemon worth this. But, like, the NFL is worth so much more than any of those. The NFL TV contract alone is twelve billion dollars a year. The most recent set of rights they personal up was, like, a hundred billion.

39:36

Now it's, like, eighteen or nineteen billion a year. I think.

Now it's, like, eighteen or nineteen billion a year. I think.

39:39

Something insane. But and they recently signed a ten year deal. So it's like a hundred and fifty billion dollar deal. Like, a best for the TV. The NFL has all the franchises, but is there basically, like, this, like, top level hold code that owns, like, the the media rights and the franchise. It's communist capitalism. They all own it altogether, but the fell unlike any of the other leagues out there is this is there's starting to be a few little cracks in this, but, like, they negotiate

Something insane. But and they recently signed a ten year deal. So it's like a hundred and fifty billion dollar deal. Like, a best for the TV. The NFL has all the franchises, but is there basically, like, this, like, top level hold code that owns, like, the the media rights and the franchise. It's communist capitalism. They all own it altogether, but the fell unlike any of the other leagues out there is this is there's starting to be a few little cracks in this, but, like, they negotiate

40:03

with the TV contracts, and now all the streaming and everything unified as a league. So there's no, like, you know, like, how the yankees have the yes network, like their own TV network, none of that in the NFL. It's all together and it's all equal revenue share. Have you guys done an episode on M. L. B. A

with the TV contracts, and now all the streaming and everything unified as a league. So there's no, like, you know, like, how the yankees have the yes network, like their own TV network, none of that in the NFL. It's all together and it's all equal revenue share. Have you guys done an episode on M. L. B. A

40:20

It's actually the first investment before the acquisition. These guys could tell you that this, the full version, their accurate version. I'll give you the the dumb version, which is The Major League Baseball had created a tech,

It's actually the first investment before the acquisition. These guys could tell you that this, the full version, their accurate version. I'll give you the the dumb version, which is The Major League Baseball had created a tech,

40:31

like, a tech

like, a tech

40:33

team, basically, a tech company inside of Major League Baseball co owned by, like, the the teams And the good job was like, hey, like, people are trying to listen to this on the radio.

team, basically, a tech company inside of Major League Baseball co owned by, like, the the teams And the good job was like, hey, like, people are trying to listen to this on the radio.

40:42

We need to, like, do digital streaming audio. Eichiro. Because when Eichiro came over from they needed to stream it. You remember that guy, Sam, Eichiro Suzuki, the guy who played on the mariners? Yeah. It was like a phenomenon. And so people in Japan wanted to watch or lit and watch wasn't even an option. I think it was listened to the games. So they needed digital internet streaming audio.

We need to, like, do digital streaming audio. Eichiro. Because when Eichiro came over from they needed to stream it. You remember that guy, Sam, Eichiro Suzuki, the guy who played on the mariners? Yeah. It was like a phenomenon. And so people in Japan wanted to watch or lit and watch wasn't even an option. I think it was listened to the games. So they needed digital internet streaming audio.

40:59

And so they built this thing. They started offering it, and then each team would use it. So it was like, oh, each team co funded it. So they would, like, cut a check, and then that developed technology for all of them. But then they ended up spinning it out as a multi billion dollar company because they're the best at video streaming now. Like, they stream if you wanna watch a Game of Thrones, it's m l b a m's video tech that streams Game of Thrones so that when -- Yep. -- whatever ten million people click play as soon as the episode drops, that, like, the thing doesn't crash, which is kind of an, you know, just an amazing thing. And so that, like, spin out. Oh, like, who would have ever thought, like, one of the big tech companies,

And so they built this thing. They started offering it, and then each team would use it. So it was like, oh, each team co funded it. So they would, like, cut a check, and then that developed technology for all of them. But then they ended up spinning it out as a multi billion dollar company because they're the best at video streaming now. Like, they stream if you wanna watch a Game of Thrones, it's m l b a m's video tech that streams Game of Thrones so that when -- Yep. -- whatever ten million people click play as soon as the episode drops, that, like, the thing doesn't crash, which is kind of an, you know, just an amazing thing. And so that, like, spin out. Oh, like, who would have ever thought, like, one of the big tech companies,

41:35

you know, unicorn tech companies came out of, like, this baseball co op co funded thing. Is that kind of an insane story?

you know, unicorn tech companies came out of, like, this baseball co op co funded thing. Is that kind of an insane story?

41:42

And it was in, like, two thousand and four or something that they started working on it. They had a five year head start on having the insight that this infrastructure was gonna be important over Netflix.

And it was in, like, two thousand and four or something that they started working on it. They had a five year head start on having the insight that this infrastructure was gonna be important over Netflix.

41:52

Like, everyone thinks, like, oh, Netflix, you know, is in with the ISPs and is the best in the world that this, like, damn tech was doing that five years earlier.

Like, everyone thinks, like, oh, Netflix, you know, is in with the ISPs and is the best in the world that this, like, damn tech was doing that five years earlier.

42:00

Yeah. And it ended up getting acquired by Disney, and, like, is a huge part of ESPN streaming, like all the, ESPN plus plus Disney plus, like, it's it's crazy, the history. Is there is there a certain founder CEO leader who you would rank as

Yeah. And it ended up getting acquired by Disney, and, like, is a huge part of ESPN streaming, like all the, ESPN plus plus Disney plus, like, it's it's crazy, the history. Is there is there a certain founder CEO leader who you would rank as

42:18

the the person you'd least want to compete against

the the person you'd least want to compete against

42:21

whether they're whether historical or modern. Here here's another phrase that I heard that, like, there's somebody signed with the NFL draft and there's, like, four QBs that we're competing and they're, like, wow, this guy's got arm. This guy's good at running. This guy's a great leader. Blah blah blah blah. And then this guy asked this question. I loved. He goes, let's say they all went on vacation and they rented a car and they're walking out to the to the Jeep,

whether they're whether historical or modern. Here here's another phrase that I heard that, like, there's somebody signed with the NFL draft and there's, like, four QBs that we're competing and they're, like, wow, this guy's got arm. This guy's good at running. This guy's a great leader. Blah blah blah blah. And then this guy asked this question. I loved. He goes, let's say they all went on vacation and they rented a car and they're walking out to the to the Jeep,

42:41

who who do they throw the keys to to drive this car? It's like, who's the leader? Who's the alpha amongst alphas

who who do they throw the keys to to drive this car? It's like, who's the leader? Who's the alpha amongst alphas

42:46

amongst these QB? So so who's that in the CEO world? I think we gotta say Jensen.

amongst these QB? So so who's that in the CEO world? I think we gotta say Jensen.

42:51

Denson along from Nvidia.

Denson along from Nvidia.

42:53

Like, he's such a bad ass. So, like, I don't know anything about Nvidia because I just know it's a killer stock. So Nvidia makes the chips that are in computers and and and does it involves display. You can get like a Nvidia.

Like, he's such a bad ass. So, like, I don't know anything about Nvidia because I just know it's a killer stock. So Nvidia makes the chips that are in computers and and and does it involves display. You can get like a Nvidia.

43:06

Yeah. Is is that right? Yeah. So Nvidia

Yeah. Is is that right? Yeah. So Nvidia

43:09

is, is in their

is, is in their

43:11

sort of third major act as a company. Yeah. Third x. But loosely defined as, like, they

sort of third major act as a company. Yeah. Third x. But loosely defined as, like, they

43:18

popularized

popularized

43:19

the idea of a GPU in addition to the CPU. And originally, the use case was for video games in the nineties.

the idea of a GPU in addition to the CPU. And originally, the use case was for video games in the nineties.

43:27

And, you know, I think everyone who ever built PCs remembers, like, oh, man. I gotta get this hot new GPU to slide in the card because it's better than integrated graphics thing from Intel.

And, you know, I think everyone who ever built PCs remembers, like, oh, man. I gotta get this hot new GPU to slide in the card because it's better than integrated graphics thing from Intel.

43:38

And so that was sort of their market for a while, and,

And so that was sort of their market for a while, and,

43:41

it was all about gaming PCs.

it was all about gaming PCs.

43:44

But then

But then

43:45

Like, again, five, six, seven years before the rest of the market. Jensen basically made this bet

Like, again, five, six, seven years before the rest of the market. Jensen basically made this bet

43:51

where he saw researchers

where he saw researchers

43:53

using the the GPUs, the gaming graphics cards. Really going to Best Buy and buying a bunch of Nvidia graphics cards. To do AI research, And he was like, I think we should lean really heavily into this. And so he spent billions of dollars and thousands of head count for five years to build up this, like, whole software stack called CUDA

using the the GPUs, the gaming graphics cards. Really going to Best Buy and buying a bunch of Nvidia graphics cards. To do AI research, And he was like, I think we should lean really heavily into this. And so he spent billions of dollars and thousands of head count for five years to build up this, like, whole software stack called CUDA

44:14

that if ai and ML was gonna become a thing, than people were going to use CUDA to develop exclusively on Nvidia's hardware.

that if ai and ML was gonna become a thing, than people were going to use CUDA to develop exclusively on Nvidia's hardware.

44:22

And so by the time it did become a thing, like five years ago, NVIDIA had this enormous moat around it as being the platform to develop AI on, and it just so happened that the technology,

And so by the time it did become a thing, like five years ago, NVIDIA had this enormous moat around it as being the platform to develop AI on, and it just so happened that the technology,

44:34

this, like, Super heavy parallel processing matrix math technology that makes gaming graphics chips work is the very same math that powers

this, like, Super heavy parallel processing matrix math technology that makes gaming graphics chips work is the very same math that powers

44:45

what ML is all based on. But other than so Nvidia for listener, it's I just looked it up. It's a six hundred and fifty billion dollar company. So one of the, I don't know, top twenty, thirty biggest business in the world, But other than him being correct,

what ML is all based on. But other than so Nvidia for listener, it's I just looked it up. It's a six hundred and fifty billion dollar company. So one of the, I don't know, top twenty, thirty biggest business in the world, But other than him being correct,

44:56

what makes this person, like, a savage or or That that they're just, like, there's so many points in his chili. He is a He's nineteen wives.

what makes this person, like, a savage or or That that they're just, like, there's so many points in his chili. He is a He's nineteen wives.

45:06

Let me

Let me

45:07

no. He absolutely he's a total family man. He's been married to the same person he met in college of two kids. Like, he's

no. He absolutely he's a total family man. He's been married to the same person he met in college of two kids. Like, he's

45:13

but, like, he's got a giant tattoo of the company's logo on his shoulder.

but, like, he's got a giant tattoo of the company's logo on his shoulder.

45:17

He wears leather jackets. He drives really fast cars.

He wears leather jackets. He drives really fast cars.

45:21

He's, like,

He's, like,

45:23

he's basically, like, Elon

he's basically, like, Elon

45:25

accepts

accepts

45:26

not, like,

not, like,

45:27

like, right. Like, he's, he's, like, right and, like, leads with kindness. And,

like, right. Like, he's, he's, like, right and, like, leads with kindness. And,

45:33

but like he

but like he

45:35

I mean, they're, like,

I mean, they're, like,

45:36

in each phase of the company,

in each phase of the company,

45:38

the absolute rational thing to do was, like, basically shut it down and, like, you know, like, talk about being left for dead. Like, this company was left for dead multiple times. And he's built, like, just single handedly, this dude

the absolute rational thing to do was, like, basically shut it down and, like, you know, like, talk about being left for dead. Like, this company was left for dead multiple times. And he's built, like, just single handedly, this dude

45:51

created the AI revolution that we are in today. Like, NVIDIA and CUDA is essentially, like, you can think about it as, like, the Android plus iOS

created the AI revolution that we are in today. Like, NVIDIA and CUDA is essentially, like, you can think about it as, like, the Android plus iOS

46:00

of

of

46:01

AI. Like, No Nvidia, no CUDA, no decision by Jensen to do this. We are not living in the world we're living in today. Which Sam, I'll give you a different answer for the thing you're actually looking for, which is like, who is the most savage

AI. Like, No Nvidia, no CUDA, no decision by Jensen to do this. We are not living in the world we're living in today. Which Sam, I'll give you a different answer for the thing you're actually looking for, which is like, who is the most savage

46:14

person to compete against? That answer is Bernard Arneau from LVMH. So rich man in the world today,

person to compete against? That answer is Bernard Arneau from LVMH. So rich man in the world today,

46:21

And he got there not by being the founder of a business that happened to have product market fit and appreciated wildly.

And he got there not by being the founder of a business that happened to have product market fit and appreciated wildly.

46:28

It's because of his deal prowess.

It's because of his deal prowess.

46:31

And

And

46:31

the way that he was able to effectively outsmart the rest of the market to hoover up

the way that he was able to effectively outsmart the rest of the market to hoover up

46:37

seventy of the

seventy of the

46:39

the history's most important and trusted brands into one umbrella and then find leverage in every single thing he does to expand the empire.

the history's most important and trusted brands into one umbrella and then find leverage in every single thing he does to expand the empire.

46:49

Is there anyone who you think

Is there anyone who you think

46:51

is overrated

is overrated

46:53

who's on a pedestal? And you think think that person's that great. I think, it worked out, but I think they're overrated.

who's on a pedestal? And you think think that person's that great. I think, it worked out, but I think they're overrated.

47:00

It's a very unacquired question.

It's a very unacquired question.

47:04

Dave and I are nice people. We are. We don't,

Dave and I are nice people. We are. We don't,

47:07

well, we're gonna pick pick a dead person. One that I like to. I I like to talk about.

well, we're gonna pick pick a dead person. One that I like to. I I like to talk about.

47:15

Oh, damn person.

Oh, damn person.

47:16

Or you could pick anyone, but somebody was like No. I think one that I like to talk about here is,

Or you could pick anyone, but somebody was like No. I think one that I like to talk about here is,

47:22

don't know the overrated is right, but, like, I I think a lot about in investing about,

don't know the overrated is right, but, like, I I think a lot about in investing about,

47:27

there's this great buffet quote, not one of his most well known ones, but,

there's this great buffet quote, not one of his most well known ones, but,

47:32

it's something like you wanna own a business

it's something like you wanna own a business

47:35

that,

that,

47:36

either even an idiot could run because someday someone will, you know.

either even an idiot could run because someday someone will, you know.

47:40

And I think about,

And I think about,

47:43

to me, what that means is, like, you wanna own a business. You wanna invest in a business that, like, literally, you cannot kill it. There's nothing you can do to stop this juggernaut.

to me, what that means is, like, you wanna own a business. You wanna invest in a business that, like, literally, you cannot kill it. There's nothing you can do to stop this juggernaut.

47:54

And to me, that's Airbnb.

And to me, that's Airbnb.

47:55

And we talked about this a lot on the episode we did on Airbnb, but, like, it's just like the most amazing global network effect of all time.

And we talked about this a lot on the episode we did on Airbnb, but, like, it's just like the most amazing global network effect of all time.

48:04

And literally, like, I don't you know, this is my opinion, but I don't think there's anything that any manager

And literally, like, I don't you know, this is my opinion, but I don't think there's anything that any manager

48:11

could do to change the, like, to inflect the trajectory of that shift. You know?

could do to change the, like, to inflect the trajectory of that shift. You know?

48:17

So my,

So my,

48:18

I,

I,

48:19

I, like, there's a long story. I don't feel like telling it, but I I had a job at Airbnb when I was, like, twenty two, and I, like, dropped the school and moved out. And then I got denied, whatever. And so I didn't end up working there, but I got the interview with the founders. And then years later, my wife ended up working there. And during work from home for COVID, Brian would give these talks every Thursday, and we lived in a small apartment. So I, like, and, inevitably, would hear it. I think that I agree with you. It's a mark once you have a marketplace that's working, it's hard to screw it up. EBay is doing a good job, though. But, I, you know, if it works, like, it's it's a good it's a great thing. It's a quite durable, but I would listen to Brian Chessey give these thirty minute, like, Thursday talks that guy is bad to the bone. I read a little bit. I I read the Walsh, the Walt Disney biography, and he reminded me exactly of him. He is a, you know, like, I think someone said there's a difference between a missionary and a mercenary. Mercenaries are hired guns who are ruthless, but missionaries, they they really care about what they're doing.

I, like, there's a long story. I don't feel like telling it, but I I had a job at Airbnb when I was, like, twenty two, and I, like, dropped the school and moved out. And then I got denied, whatever. And so I didn't end up working there, but I got the interview with the founders. And then years later, my wife ended up working there. And during work from home for COVID, Brian would give these talks every Thursday, and we lived in a small apartment. So I, like, and, inevitably, would hear it. I think that I agree with you. It's a mark once you have a marketplace that's working, it's hard to screw it up. EBay is doing a good job, though. But, I, you know, if it works, like, it's it's a good it's a great thing. It's a quite durable, but I would listen to Brian Chessey give these thirty minute, like, Thursday talks that guy is bad to the bone. I read a little bit. I I read the Walsh, the Walt Disney biography, and he reminded me exactly of him. He is a, you know, like, I think someone said there's a difference between a missionary and a mercenary. Mercenaries are hired guns who are ruthless, but missionaries, they they really care about what they're doing.

49:15

I I sense that with him. That guy, I think, is, is is a bit killer. I think that he's, people think of him as this nice guy of which I think he is. I think he's way, way more of a killer than people give him credit for, and he's very wise. That he's a really good leader.

I I sense that with him. That guy, I think, is, is is a bit killer. I think that he's, people think of him as this nice guy of which I think he is. I think he's way, way more of a killer than people give him credit for, and he's very wise. That he's a really good leader.

49:31

But that's cool. I I like Airbnb, and I think And I think it's cool that I I agree that it probably would be, hard to kill. And last question, which person who you covered would you would kick your ass physically, and you'd at least wanna have a physical confrontation with? I mean, actually, Jensen. Yeah.

But that's cool. I I like Airbnb, and I think And I think it's cool that I I agree that it probably would be, hard to kill. And last question, which person who you covered would you would kick your ass physically, and you'd at least wanna have a physical confrontation with? I mean, actually, Jensen. Yeah.

49:45

You think you you think you think so? Well, he's getting up there in age, but, like, yeah. No. He, like, he lifts.

You think you you think you think so? Well, he's getting up there in age, but, like, yeah. No. He, like, he lifts.

49:52

He's just, like, such a character.

He's just, like, such a character.

49:58

Well, I certainly I mean, we're coming right off of Nintendo, but, like,

Well, I certainly I mean, we're coming right off of Nintendo, but, like,

50:03

Haroshi Yamuchi back in the day, not because he was physically intimidating, but, like, literally, like, the the man was in bed with the yakuza. Like, you know,

Haroshi Yamuchi back in the day, not because he was physically intimidating, but, like, literally, like, the the man was in bed with the yakuza. Like, you know,

50:12

they Oh, I got you. You did not cross him. Oh, Doug Leonie, yeah, for sure. David and I walked in to interview Doug Leon. It's a great story. And, Doug Dougoni's the founder of Sequoia. Yeah. That's a founding managing partner. Yeah. Got it. One one a bit head honcho at one point of of one of the best venture capital firms ever. Through Google and, you know, the the the true heyday of of Sequoia, which, yeah, or you could argue that was recently, but amazing era of Sequoia. And, so we a lot of times, like, with guests,

they Oh, I got you. You did not cross him. Oh, Doug Leonie, yeah, for sure. David and I walked in to interview Doug Leon. It's a great story. And, Doug Dougoni's the founder of Sequoia. Yeah. That's a founding managing partner. Yeah. Got it. One one a bit head honcho at one point of of one of the best venture capital firms ever. Through Google and, you know, the the the true heyday of of Sequoia, which, yeah, or you could argue that was recently, but amazing era of Sequoia. And, so we a lot of times, like, with guests,

50:41

we'll get to, like, spend some time beforehand and get to know them and go out to dinner afterwards and build real relationship. And we, like, email or text, and you guys know the drill. And so with with Doug, we, we didn't communicate with him at all beforehand. It was all with some some other lovely people at Sequoia. And we walk in and we set up, and someone walks in the room and then they go, okay. Are you, are you ready? And we were like, yep. And they were like, great. We'll go get Doug. Doug walks in. He sits down. He says hello.

we'll get to, like, spend some time beforehand and get to know them and go out to dinner afterwards and build real relationship. And we, like, email or text, and you guys know the drill. And so with with Doug, we, we didn't communicate with him at all beforehand. It was all with some some other lovely people at Sequoia. And we walk in and we set up, and someone walks in the room and then they go, okay. Are you, are you ready? And we were like, yep. And they were like, great. We'll go get Doug. Doug walks in. He sits down. He says hello.

51:09

Are we starting?

Are we starting?

51:10

And we were like, yeah. So we hit record,

And we were like, yeah. So we hit record,

51:13

and we finished, like, so we did a whole episode. Make me laugh. No. Right.

and we finished, like, so we did a whole episode. Make me laugh. No. Right.

51:20

Doug just goes, great. Thank you so much. And he walks up and leaves the room. So every

Doug just goes, great. Thank you so much. And he walks up and leaves the room. So every

51:25

word that I've ever spoken with with Doug Leo except for, like, two or three is on the record in the episode that you can listen to in our podcast feed. And,

word that I've ever spoken with with Doug Leo except for, like, two or three is on the record in the episode that you can listen to in our podcast feed. And,

51:34

later, his EA did come in dog wanted to know if you guys had any feedback. He's always looking to get better,

later, his EA did come in dog wanted to know if you guys had any feedback. He's always looking to get better,

51:40

and and sort of, like, came in and chatted with us. But I was like, wow. That is,

and and sort of, like, came in and chatted with us. But I was like, wow. That is,

51:44

does it graduate? He does wanted to say thank you.

does it graduate? He does wanted to say thank you.

51:48

But he doesn't waste waste bread.

But he doesn't waste waste bread.

51:53

The assist has just punched in the arm and gave you a raspberry. He said, that's from Doug.

The assist has just punched in the arm and gave you a raspberry. He said, that's from Doug.

51:58

He also had,

He also had,

51:59

he has, I think, still to this day. The best quote unacquired. Yes. That was not uttered by Ben or me quoting somebody else from history. But the best live quote unacquired,

he has, I think, still to this day. The best quote unacquired. Yes. That was not uttered by Ben or me quoting somebody else from history. But the best live quote unacquired,

52:09

he was talking about

he was talking about

52:11

after the dot com crash when,

after the dot com crash when,

52:14

Sequo was, like, kind of made this vow that no LP would lose money. Like, they wouldn't take a mulligan fund. They would, work the portfolio companies. They don't take salaries. Make sure that they have positive returns. And he said, he's like Mike Maritz and I linked arms are wasn't I think it was, like, our he said Mike Maritz and I decided that, like, we would stand there and we wouldn't flinch and you could burn cigarettes on our arms. And we would, like, if we wouldn't take a mulligan on these funds. They're like, damn.

Sequo was, like, kind of made this vow that no LP would lose money. Like, they wouldn't take a mulligan fund. They would, work the portfolio companies. They don't take salaries. Make sure that they have positive returns. And he said, he's like Mike Maritz and I linked arms are wasn't I think it was, like, our he said Mike Maritz and I decided that, like, we would stand there and we wouldn't flinch and you could burn cigarettes on our arms. And we would, like, if we wouldn't take a mulligan on these funds. They're like, damn.

52:41

He also has kind of an accent. Right? Like, he's, doesn't he have a camera? Yeah. Yeah. He's got this Italian New York vibe. Yeah. That's cool. Are there are are are there any more of these, like, tough guys or tough women, like, that are out there now? I mean, when I hear that, it's I always, like, that was a different generation.

He also has kind of an accent. Right? Like, he's, doesn't he have a camera? Yeah. Yeah. He's got this Italian New York vibe. Yeah. That's cool. Are there are are are there any more of these, like, tough guys or tough women, like, that are out there now? I mean, when I hear that, it's I always, like, that was a different generation.

52:58

Do they make sense like it was? Yeah.

Do they make sense like it was? Yeah.

53:02

He got, like, tough now. Yeah. Well, Elon's tough. He he ain't, like, tough, tough. Like, Travis's Alecic. I think with Luke Martin

He got, like, tough now. Yeah. Well, Elon's tough. He he ain't, like, tough, tough. Like, Travis's Alecic. I think with Luke Martin

53:09

is still like this. Yeah.

is still like this. Yeah.

53:11

Yeah. And he That's a dying breed though. Like, we need more plates.

Yeah. And he That's a dying breed though. Like, we need more plates.

53:16

Yeah. Frank, my my badge is not working to get into the office.

Yeah. Frank, my my badge is not working to get into the office.

53:20

You still got teeth. Don't you? He's like,

You still got teeth. Don't you? He's like,

53:24

you know, that's like, when you read that guy's book, you're like, alright. Yeah. This would be pretty hardcore boss to work under.

you know, that's like, when you read that guy's book, you're like, alright. Yeah. This would be pretty hardcore boss to work under.

53:31

Yeah.

Yeah.

53:32

It's totally a lost art though. Like,

It's totally a lost art though. Like,

53:35

yeah, I don't I don't think they make them like that anymore, unfortunately.

yeah, I don't I don't think they make them like that anymore, unfortunately.

53:39

Yeah. That's crazy. Before we go, do you guys have, have any half baked business ideas you wanted to share with the, the my first million audience? Because, that's what they love.

Yeah. That's crazy. Before we go, do you guys have, have any half baked business ideas you wanted to share with the, the my first million audience? Because, that's what they love.

53:50

Yeah.

Yeah.

53:51

I would love to do this. So I have one that,

I would love to do this. So I have one that,

53:54

I was we were actually kicking around, together, Ben and me for a while,

I was we were actually kicking around, together, Ben and me for a while,

53:59

but that we're not gonna do which is I think,

but that we're not gonna do which is I think,

54:02

you could actually start a corporate podcast agency

you could actually start a corporate podcast agency

54:06

So

So

54:07

an agency

an agency

54:08

for companies to make their own podcast

for companies to make their own podcast

54:11

or external.

or external.

54:13

Either one.

Either one.

54:14

And my thesis on this is that

And my thesis on this is that

54:17

for

for

54:18

companies,

companies,

54:20

there's tremendous value to having a podcast even if nobody listens. If people listen, like, upside. But even And basically, you should just assume no one will because we have, like, there's so many great options. Why would I listen to a a company's podcast? Right. But it is an excuse

there's tremendous value to having a podcast even if nobody listens. If people listen, like, upside. But even And basically, you should just assume no one will because we have, like, there's so many great options. Why would I listen to a a company's podcast? Right. But it is an excuse

54:37

to have relationship building conversations with customers and props. Sales and Bizdev, basically. Yeah.

to have relationship building conversations with customers and props. Sales and Bizdev, basically. Yeah.

54:43

Yeah. Exactly. It's it's sales enablement. Like, once you have a conversation, you have it recorded, you publish it publicly,

Yeah. Exactly. It's it's sales enablement. Like, once you have a conversation, you have it recorded, you publish it publicly,

54:49

even if there's no organic audience, you can still link to that, and you can send it to customers as like a lead nurturing thing of, oh, somebody else was in this position too and they talked about why our product made their life better. Right. Right. Yeah. Like -- What do they? -- should have its own, its own some podcast.

even if there's no organic audience, you can still link to that, and you can send it to customers as like a lead nurturing thing of, oh, somebody else was in this position too and they talked about why our product made their life better. Right. Right. Yeah. Like -- What do they? -- should have its own, its own some podcast.

55:03

Yep. Yeah. What do they charge for that? What do people charge for that? I know Ben,

Yep. Yeah. What do they charge for that? What do people charge for that? I know Ben,

55:07

Ben, our Ben Ben Wilson used to look work at

Ben, our Ben Ben Wilson used to look work at

55:11

Is it mission dot org Bend or no. It's caspian caspian studios. And I think they do that for, like, still sleeping. Right? Like, how does this idea work or not really? What what what's the vertex on this one? Yes. It works. Yes. The customers are extremely price insensitive.

Is it mission dot org Bend or no. It's caspian caspian studios. And I think they do that for, like, still sleeping. Right? Like, how does this idea work or not really? What what what's the vertex on this one? Yes. It works. Yes. The customers are extremely price insensitive.

55:26

So it's good. The margins are super high.

So it's good. The margins are super high.

55:28

We actually, like, combining the two things we just talked about, we made Snowflake's podcast and Frank Slootman was on it all the time. Oh, perfect.

We actually, like, combining the two things we just talked about, we made Snowflake's podcast and Frank Slootman was on it all the time. Oh, perfect.

55:37

It it's a it's a really good business. The one bad thing about it that's coming into effect right now is when recessions hit, it's the first thing to go. Right? It's just like, the the margins are super good when times are good, but then when times are not good. The email you're being like, hey, could you send me the last thirty day downloads numbers? And you're like, delete delete the whole podcast

It it's a it's a really good business. The one bad thing about it that's coming into effect right now is when recessions hit, it's the first thing to go. Right? It's just like, the the margins are super good when times are good, but then when times are not good. The email you're being like, hey, could you send me the last thirty day downloads numbers? And you're like, delete delete the whole podcast

55:56

they're they're asking the question.

they're they're asking the question.

55:59

It's exactly like that. Yes.

It's exactly like that. Yes.

56:01

Yeah.

Yeah.

56:02

What else you got? What else interests you at the moment? Ben, you got any.

What else you got? What else interests you at the moment? Ben, you got any.

56:07

Or at least what deals are you seeing? Because you guys are investing. Are there any interesting deals that you're seeing or categories that you're seeing that you really like that don't start with the word AI?

Or at least what deals are you seeing? Because you guys are investing. Are there any interesting deals that you're seeing or categories that you're seeing that you really like that don't start with the word AI?

56:17

I mean, actually no. Like, and and and I think that's the I think that is correct. Like, I am one of these people that believes

I mean, actually no. Like, and and and I think that's the I think that is correct. Like, I am one of these people that believes

56:25

that,

that,

56:29

saying AI we invest in AI is a little bit of a silly thing these days because it's the same thing as twenty years ago saying we invest in software as a VC. It's like, yeah, no shit.

saying AI we invest in AI is a little bit of a silly thing these days because it's the same thing as twenty years ago saying we invest in software as a VC. It's like, yeah, no shit.

56:39

Like, I I I think it's just gonna be so quickly ubiquitous

Like, I I I think it's just gonna be so quickly ubiquitous

56:42

that, like, if

that, like, if

56:44

companies aren't using AI in some capacity or starting to get a little bit, like, What's a cool AI use case or company that you've that you've seen and invested in or wanna invest in, whatever? Well, and by the way, I think Sean Metwick James carrier recently. And I think it was James on Twitter or maybe John Hughes told us, you go, I've been pitched by two hundred AI companies in the last quarter, and I've invested in none. Because they're all weak or something like that. So I haven't it's interesting. I haven't invested in any either.

companies aren't using AI in some capacity or starting to get a little bit, like, What's a cool AI use case or company that you've that you've seen and invested in or wanna invest in, whatever? Well, and by the way, I think Sean Metwick James carrier recently. And I think it was James on Twitter or maybe John Hughes told us, you go, I've been pitched by two hundred AI companies in the last quarter, and I've invested in none. Because they're all weak or something like that. So I haven't it's interesting. I haven't invested in any either.

57:13

Or I haven't invest I'm lots of companies I've invested in have added AI stuff to their products, but I haven't invested in some, like, net new AI company.

Or I haven't invest I'm lots of companies I've invested in have added AI stuff to their products, but I haven't invested in some, like, net new AI company.

57:21

In part because

In part because

57:22

I don't think AI is going to be the differentiation,

I don't think AI is going to be the differentiation,

57:26

and I don't think it's gonna be defensible for the vast majority of companies. I think the

and I don't think it's gonna be defensible for the vast majority of companies. I think the

57:31

the value

the value

57:32

is gonna come from and the moat is gonna come from the same thing that always creates value and moats, which is like

is gonna come from and the moat is gonna come from the same thing that always creates value and moats, which is like

57:40

network effects with your customers or, like,

network effects with your customers or, like,

57:44

a data mode where someone's already fully locked into your thing. And so they don't wanna migrate because that would suck. And they have processes around using your thing.

a data mode where someone's already fully locked into your thing. And so they don't wanna migrate because that would suck. And they have processes around using your thing.

57:52

And so I sort of

And so I sort of

57:54

like, I I believe that

like, I I believe that

57:56

an enormous amount of the

an enormous amount of the

57:59

value from AI will accrue to these foundational models, but you actually do have to be using the foundational models in your thing in order to be

value from AI will accrue to these foundational models, but you actually do have to be using the foundational models in your thing in order to be

58:09

like table stakes in in the next few years because everybody's going to expect all software to just behave magically.

like table stakes in in the next few years because everybody's going to expect all software to just behave magically.

58:17

Right.

Right.

58:17

Do you think and this will be the last question for me. Do you think that there's a world where you're gonna sell acquired or do one of these Spotify deals or anything like that?

Do you think and this will be the last question for me. Do you think that there's a world where you're gonna sell acquired or do one of these Spotify deals or anything like that?

58:26

Have you been approached? Good question.

Have you been approached? Good question.

58:29

Yes, but

Yes, but

58:32

not,

not,

58:34

Not in like a,

Not in like a,

58:36

not in not recently and not in a way that, like, not since we've become a real business.

not in not recently and not in a way that, like, not since we've become a real business.

58:41

What could you get for it you think? Like, could

What could you get for it you think? Like, could

58:45

we try to give him five million bucks what they said now?

we try to give him five million bucks what they said now?

58:50

Quivvy. Oh, wow.

Quivvy. Oh, wow.

58:52

We

We

58:52

we would say no to that. We would, for sure, say no to that.

we would say no to that. We would, for sure, say no to that.

58:57

I don't, like, If,

I don't, like, If,

59:00

we could talk about, like, I I don't,

we could talk about, like, I I don't,

59:03

I would not be interested in having any conversations

I would not be interested in having any conversations

59:06

for you know, less than,

for you know, less than,

59:09

on the order of, like, wait, you got, like, the hustle or,

on the order of, like, wait, you got, like, the hustle or,

59:13

morning brew or, you know, stuff like that. Tens of millions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

morning brew or, you know, stuff like that. Tens of millions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

59:18

I mean, I just think like the value of what we've built both as a business and revenue and our audience, and our durability is, you know, is is in that category.

I mean, I just think like the value of what we've built both as a business and revenue and our audience, and our durability is, you know, is is in that category.

59:28

I think it's a very much an open question. Like, it's gotten so much bigger than we ever imagined.

I think it's a very much an open question. Like, it's gotten so much bigger than we ever imagined.

59:33

How much farther

How much farther

59:34

can it go?

can it go?

59:36

I'm curious how these things work. Would would we trust our own underwriting

I'm curious how these things work. Would would we trust our own underwriting

59:40

more than an acquirer's under writing because what has happened for us is it has doubled every single year for eight years, basically, no matter what we do. Like, we can't make it grow faster or slower than that.

more than an acquirer's under writing because what has happened for us is it has doubled every single year for eight years, basically, no matter what we do. Like, we can't make it grow faster or slower than that.

59:51

We get it. It's running the business here. And, it's still don't work right.

We get it. It's running the business here. And, it's still don't work right.

59:55

Yeah. It's it's cash generative. Well, have you guys built any businesses off the back of it?

Yeah. It's it's cash generative. Well, have you guys built any businesses off the back of it?

01:00:01

So that's that we

So that's that we

01:00:03

Oh, well Or if you could glow, David? No. I'm thinking kindergarten. So I don't have a I have a fund on AngelList. I manage about thirty million dollars of capital on AngelList between two funds and four or five SPVs.

Oh, well Or if you could glow, David? No. I'm thinking kindergarten. So I don't have a I have a fund on AngelList. I manage about thirty million dollars of capital on AngelList between two funds and four or five SPVs.

01:00:16

And

And

01:00:17

while I used to be a professional VC before going full time unacquired, and that certainly helps.

while I used to be a professional VC before going full time unacquired, and that certainly helps.

01:00:23

All of that's because of acquired. Like,

All of that's because of acquired. Like,

01:00:25

And you,

And you,

01:00:27

so so you did that you did that fund. Anything else that you guys have done that you've launched,

so so you did that you did that fund. Anything else that you guys have done that you've launched,

01:00:32

off the back of it? Because what we found was that

off the back of it? Because what we found was that

01:00:35

a podcast,

a podcast,

01:00:36

like you said, it's very hard to make you grow faster than it's kinda like natural

like you said, it's very hard to make you grow faster than it's kinda like natural

01:00:40

word-of-mouth,

word-of-mouth,

01:00:41

virality,

virality,

01:00:43

interest and, like, kind of a tam of that, that market.

interest and, like, kind of a tam of that, that market.

01:00:46

Like, the Andrew Hubermans are rare. Normally, it's a grind. Yeah. Yeah. And, and even him, I don't think he could make it grow much faster or slower. Just like good execution is obviously the only thing you control, but, like, a lot of people can do good execution and their growth rate will be easier, you know, somewhat,

Like, the Andrew Hubermans are rare. Normally, it's a grind. Yeah. Yeah. And, and even him, I don't think he could make it grow much faster or slower. Just like good execution is obviously the only thing you control, but, like, a lot of people can do good execution and their growth rate will be easier, you know, somewhat,

01:01:02

linear. You know, it's not gonna, like, get get much fat. The slope doesn't change that much. Do you,

linear. You know, it's not gonna, like, get get much fat. The slope doesn't change that much. Do you,

01:01:07

but the thing that I think what we found was that you could build businesses off the back of this audience, whether it's a fund or other other products or services

but the thing that I think what we found was that you could build businesses off the back of this audience, whether it's a fund or other other products or services

01:01:15

that

that

01:01:16

can be more valuable than the ad revenue of the of the podcast itself. Do you guys do that or think about that?

can be more valuable than the ad revenue of the of the podcast itself. Do you guys do that or think about that?

01:01:23

Like, Sean, well, Sean mentioned a company and they're like, oh, we just did a million in revenue. So and he's like, oh, well, I I gave a company a plug that I invest in. I was like, hey, I use it for this recent blah blah. I was like, you know, an ad, basically, but it wasn't meant to be an ad. I was just explaining how I use this thing. And, they booked a million dollars of ARR off of, off of that, which was, like, pretty crazy.

Like, Sean, well, Sean mentioned a company and they're like, oh, we just did a million in revenue. So and he's like, oh, well, I I gave a company a plug that I invest in. I was like, hey, I use it for this recent blah blah. I was like, you know, an ad, basically, but it wasn't meant to be an ad. I was just explaining how I use this thing. And, they booked a million dollars of ARR off of, off of that, which was, like, pretty crazy.

01:01:43

Yep. So so that happens to us all the time.

Yep. So so that happens to us all the time.

01:01:46

Which is why all of our sponsor deals are these, like, six figure, very meaningful.

Which is why all of our sponsor deals are these, like, six figure, very meaningful.

01:01:51

And long term, we do these six month sponsorships.

And long term, we do these six month sponsorships.

01:01:55

And most of our sponsors are now, you know, three, four, five seasons. And, like, it works.

And most of our sponsors are now, you know, three, four, five seasons. And, like, it works.

01:02:01

And so the question is, is it more

And so the question is, is it more

01:02:03

is the right mode for us to operate in, keep doing these big,

is the right mode for us to operate in, keep doing these big,

01:02:08

deep sponsorship deals

deep sponsorship deals

01:02:10

with companies for cash, Or do we try to start companies or,

with companies for cash, Or do we try to start companies or,

01:02:16

find some company that's at an inflection point and say, you know, let's trade equity or

find some company that's at an inflection point and say, you know, let's trade equity or

01:02:22

I think we're pretty early in the thinking there because we're like,

I think we're pretty early in the thinking there because we're like,

01:02:26

you know, we would have to it would have to be

you know, we would have to it would have to be

01:02:28

really the right type of company that is a high LTV B2B SaaS business that's reaching founders and and, you know, CEOs and technical founders.

really the right type of company that is a high LTV B2B SaaS business that's reaching founders and and, you know, CEOs and technical founders.

01:02:38

And

And

01:02:39

that would have to be the audience. Like, I don't think we're gonna launch an energy drink brand and have that makes have that kind of pencil. But I don't know. We're we're open to the possibility.

that would have to be the audience. Like, I don't think we're gonna launch an energy drink brand and have that makes have that kind of pencil. But I don't know. We're we're open to the possibility.

01:02:48

I think there's also for us. I'm I'm curious how you guys think about it because you are getting into this game.

I think there's also for us. I'm I'm curious how you guys think about it because you are getting into this game.

01:02:53

I, at least, I don't wanna speak for Ben. I don't want to run a company.

I, at least, I don't wanna speak for Ben. I don't want to run a company.

01:02:59

Yeah. I wanna make

Yeah. I wanna make

01:03:00

tell stories

tell stories

01:03:02

and invest.

and invest.

01:03:04

So I don't really wanna build products or manage teams.

So I don't really wanna build products or manage teams.

01:03:08

So I think it's likely that we'll continue going that route. I don't know. Ben has experience actually building things. So you may feel differently, but This this lets us benefit from the upside of companies using acquired as channel without us have to be involved in the of building that company. Yeah. And maybe at some point that our desire will change there. But But how do you got it? You guys have built companies. You guys are building products, like, how do you think about this? I've thought about it both ways. Like, I I'm like you a little bit where my I have the most fun when I get to just

So I think it's likely that we'll continue going that route. I don't know. Ben has experience actually building things. So you may feel differently, but This this lets us benefit from the upside of companies using acquired as channel without us have to be involved in the of building that company. Yeah. And maybe at some point that our desire will change there. But But how do you got it? You guys have built companies. You guys are building products, like, how do you think about this? I've thought about it both ways. Like, I I'm like you a little bit where my I have the most fun when I get to just

01:03:36

tell tell stories nerd out about stuff, go learn new things and then come back with, like, go I wanna go down rabbit holes and then take that most interesting, you know, one percent of things that I found. And share it on this podcast or on my newsletter.

tell tell stories nerd out about stuff, go learn new things and then come back with, like, go I wanna go down rabbit holes and then take that most interesting, you know, one percent of things that I found. And share it on this podcast or on my newsletter.

01:03:49

And that's that's what I like to do. That's the the sort of the highest enjoyment.

And that's that's what I like to do. That's the the sort of the highest enjoyment.

01:03:52

But I also love money. And so I'm like, okay. Cool. And I also like the thing I study is about how people make money and business and create wealth. And so I can't help myself but, like, apply some of the things that I learned. Right? Like, it's it's very hard to resist the urge to apply the things that you know once you know them. Yep. And, but then you gotta go recruit a team. You gotta, like, go. Yeah. Basically played with every form you could do. So I I invest

But I also love money. And so I'm like, okay. Cool. And I also like the thing I study is about how people make money and business and create wealth. And so I can't help myself but, like, apply some of the things that I learned. Right? Like, it's it's very hard to resist the urge to apply the things that you know once you know them. Yep. And, but then you gotta go recruit a team. You gotta, like, go. Yeah. Basically played with every form you could do. So I I invest

01:04:16

both in startups as well as, like, cash flowing businesses. Like, I'll buy, you know, twenty, thirty percent of a cash flowing business. That I think I can help through the audience or,

both in startups as well as, like, cash flowing businesses. Like, I'll buy, you know, twenty, thirty percent of a cash flowing business. That I think I can help through the audience or,

01:04:26

or just through, like, you know, being a entrepreneur for fifteen years and like learning a bunch of stuff.

or just through, like, you know, being a entrepreneur for fifteen years and like learning a bunch of stuff.

01:04:30

The second thing would be starting a business. So I started the milk road off of the podcast. I think the podcast helped us get the ball rolling there.

The second thing would be starting a business. So I started the milk road off of the podcast. I think the podcast helped us get the ball rolling there.

01:04:38

And then, you know, I've launched courses or things like that that just are ways to to take the curiosity and say, oh, I learned a bunch of stuff. Could I teach it?

And then, you know, I've launched courses or things like that that just are ways to to take the curiosity and say, oh, I learned a bunch of stuff. Could I teach it?

01:04:47

And then and and also thought thought about, you know, you know, so buying businesses, investing in startups,

And then and and also thought thought about, you know, you know, so buying businesses, investing in startups,

01:04:53

doing,

doing,

01:04:54

building start up a loan or not doing any of them, not being operational at all. Like, I've played with kind of all of them over the past three years in different ways. Like, we sold the milk road in part because

building start up a loan or not doing any of them, not being operational at all. Like, I've played with kind of all of them over the past three years in different ways. Like, we sold the milk road in part because

01:05:04

Okay. That business is working, and we got a great offer. But the the best part of the offer was, oh, I don't have to operate any business anymore. If I do this, that's appealing to me. Whereas Sam just launched Hampton

Okay. That business is working, and we got a great offer. But the the best part of the offer was, oh, I don't have to operate any business anymore. If I do this, that's appealing to me. Whereas Sam just launched Hampton

01:05:15

last week or, well, I think it was last week. We came. I saw it. Congratulations.

last week or, well, I think it was last week. We came. I saw it. Congratulations.

01:05:19

Thank you. I feel like you don't have to do sales for the next year based off of like, you know, the the the blitz that you were able to to to drum up across pod, Twitter, everywhere that you tried to do. Right? Like, I mean, you could talk a little more about that, but seems like

Thank you. I feel like you don't have to do sales for the next year based off of like, you know, the the the blitz that you were able to to to drum up across pod, Twitter, everywhere that you tried to do. Right? Like, I mean, you could talk a little more about that, but seems like

01:05:33

you crushed your demand side.

you crushed your demand side.

01:05:35

Yeah. So, basically, in two thousand twenty two and twenty one, I was inspired by Sean. I was like, alright, fine. I'll invest a little while. And so I gave it like a six to twelve month try. And I was like, I hate investing.

Yeah. So, basically, in two thousand twenty two and twenty one, I was inspired by Sean. I was like, alright, fine. I'll invest a little while. And so I gave it like a six to twelve month try. And I was like, I hate investing.

01:05:47

I totally dislike it.

I totally dislike it.

01:05:49

I think maybe I could be pretty good at it, but I I it's not for me. I don't like taking a minority interest in things. That's, I personally like owning all of something, and I think of myself a little bit as an artist sometimes with these companies. Like, it's like I like to be creative, and that's kinda how I like to express myself. So I prefer that with and so that's why I launched Hampton was because I was like, this fits my interest. There I have a competitive advantage here. And so when I announced it,

I think maybe I could be pretty good at it, but I I it's not for me. I don't like taking a minority interest in things. That's, I personally like owning all of something, and I think of myself a little bit as an artist sometimes with these companies. Like, it's like I like to be creative, and that's kinda how I like to express myself. So I prefer that with and so that's why I launched Hampton was because I was like, this fits my interest. There I have a competitive advantage here. And so when I announced it,

01:06:15

on the pod, we now have five thousand people who applied.

on the pod, we now have five thousand people who applied.

01:06:20

And we're like and it that's it's cost eighty five hundred dollars a year to join, and we're being very meticulous and very slow about who we're adding. But that's very likely gonna be a very, very large company, I think. We have a CEO Jordan who's amazing,

And we're like and it that's it's cost eighty five hundred dollars a year to join, and we're being very meticulous and very slow about who we're adding. But that's very likely gonna be a very, very large company, I think. We have a CEO Jordan who's amazing,

01:06:33

but,

but,

01:06:34

like, we're not taking any outside capital. And I prefer Sean to do lots of things, and I know a lot of people like to do that. Lots of things, and I know a lot of people who succeed

like, we're not taking any outside capital. And I prefer Sean to do lots of things, and I know a lot of people like to do that. Lots of things, and I know a lot of people who succeed

01:06:42

really nicely with that. Me personally,

really nicely with that. Me personally,

01:06:45

I prefer,

I prefer,

01:06:46

focus and just doing one thing at a time because I I don't I just my brain, it's really challenging for me to jump from thing to thing to thing like an investor needs to. And so I prefer, like, spending five, ten years on something.

focus and just doing one thing at a time because I I don't I just my brain, it's really challenging for me to jump from thing to thing to thing like an investor needs to. And so I prefer, like, spending five, ten years on something.

01:06:58

And so I I intend to start company, start a company, maybe another one in in a handful of years. I'm not sure. Rather than investing. I actually think that

And so I I intend to start company, start a company, maybe another one in in a handful of years. I'm not sure. Rather than investing. I actually think that

01:07:07

Sean's way of, like, doing cash flow businesses and owning a portion of them. That's actually the easier way I think to make wealth

Sean's way of, like, doing cash flow businesses and owning a portion of them. That's actually the easier way I think to make wealth

01:07:15

I I just don't find enjoyment on on it. I'm a dopamine fiend and, like, seeing sales come in and, like, making decisions, I get, like, it's it's my alcohol. I like it drunk off that. How how do you think about the business of the pod of my first million?

I I just don't find enjoyment on on it. I'm a dopamine fiend and, like, seeing sales come in and, like, making decisions, I get, like, it's it's my alcohol. I like it drunk off that. How how do you think about the business of the pod of my first million?

01:07:29

So the podcast is owned by HubSpot, and we get paid a we get paid strictly a performance fee. And so when it kicks ass, which it has, we get paid good money as if we have had advertisers

So the podcast is owned by HubSpot, and we get paid a we get paid strictly a performance fee. And so when it kicks ass, which it has, we get paid good money as if we have had advertisers

01:07:40

Yep.

Yep.

01:07:41

And so, but HubSpot's been great. Like, not one time, have they ever censored us or said, Hey, you made a bad joke. Don't say that. And so it's been pretty good.

And so, but HubSpot's been great. Like, not one time, have they ever censored us or said, Hey, you made a bad joke. Don't say that. And so it's been pretty good.

01:07:51

Is there's definitely

Is there's definitely

01:07:52

I wouldn't say complicated,

I wouldn't say complicated,

01:07:54

but it's a new relationship that we're definitely trying to figure out of, like, what to do. Because frankly, Hubspot's an awesome partner, but at the same time, if Sean and I bounce,

but it's a new relationship that we're definitely trying to figure out of, like, what to do. Because frankly, Hubspot's an awesome partner, but at the same time, if Sean and I bounce,

01:08:03

they they don't have shit. Right. So

they they don't have shit. Right. So

01:08:06

I think we're both both sides of that of that are trying to understand

I think we're both both sides of that of that are trying to understand

01:08:10

what we can do and how far we can push things and And we're definitely separating that out. There are you have some and and they probably are potentially more

what we can do and how far we can push things and And we're definitely separating that out. There are you have some and and they probably are potentially more

01:08:19

monetization options for the pod. Right? Like, how does that revenue get split out.

monetization options for the pod. Right? Like, how does that revenue get split out.

01:08:25

Like,

Like,

01:08:25

YouTube ads. We just don't. We, we turned off YouTube ads.

YouTube ads. We just don't. We, we turned off YouTube ads.

01:08:30

We can't, like, if somebody wants to sponsor it, we don't Right? So, like, we leave a lot of money on the table in that regard.

We can't, like, if somebody wants to sponsor it, we don't Right? So, like, we leave a lot of money on the table in that regard.

01:08:36

But you get other benefits. Right? So you gotta, like, kinda write those out over time and be like Right. So, yeah, like, the the benefit the benefits that we have are basically

But you get other benefits. Right? So you gotta, like, kinda write those out over time and be like Right. So, yeah, like, the the benefit the benefits that we have are basically

01:08:45

we don't do any of the work. So we record, and then it goes on the internet.

we don't do any of the work. So we record, and then it goes on the internet.

01:08:49

That's a pro and a con because if we don't like how it's done, then it's like, shit. We don't like that. Let's fix it. But as long as it's working well, it's awesome. We get paid without having to have any expenses,

That's a pro and a con because if we don't like how it's done, then it's like, shit. We don't like that. Let's fix it. But as long as it's working well, it's awesome. We get paid without having to have any expenses,

01:08:59

but then the flip side is, shit. We have all these this advertiser interests, and we know it works really well. Let's take more deals. And so I think there's a there's a world where we do con con actually come to a compromise and we have more ads, but, that's like a it's a it's a conversation.

but then the flip side is, shit. We have all these this advertiser interests, and we know it works really well. Let's take more deals. And so I think there's a there's a world where we do con con actually come to a compromise and we have more ads, but, that's like a it's a it's a conversation.

01:09:14

Yeah. Yeah. Is there is there attention at all with you guys wanting to use the pod to

Yeah. Yeah. Is there is there attention at all with you guys wanting to use the pod to

01:09:20

do stuff that generates value for yourself that doesn't accrue back to the MFM

do stuff that generates value for yourself that doesn't accrue back to the MFM

01:09:25

pod, like, you launching businesses off it, or is that all great? They're they're they're they're they're great with that. And any revenue outside of the pod is one hundred percent ours, events, merch, whatever.

pod, like, you launching businesses off it, or is that all great? They're they're they're they're they're great with that. And any revenue outside of the pod is one hundred percent ours, events, merch, whatever.

01:09:34

But, like, let's say, let's say that they're, like, we're hiring a producer now because Ben's gonna go full time on on his, new thing. Let's say, let's Congratulations, Ben. Let's say that,

But, like, let's say, let's say that they're, like, we're hiring a producer now because Ben's gonna go full time on on his, new thing. Let's say, let's Congratulations, Ben. Let's say that,

01:09:45

they're moving slow. It's like, hey, guys, Hubspot. Hurry the hell up. You know, you're going way too slow. I got five friends right now who get higher. And so, like, there's tension there for things like that.

they're moving slow. It's like, hey, guys, Hubspot. Hurry the hell up. You know, you're going way too slow. I got five friends right now who get higher. And so, like, there's tension there for things like that.

01:09:54

Yeah. Well, probably all all the business activity, all the stuff you guys are launching

Yeah. Well, probably all all the business activity, all the stuff you guys are launching

01:09:59

outside of the pod just brings attention back to the pod. Right? So, like, it's It all brings credibility. Right? Because how many Yeah. People do you see on YouTube or TikTok or Twitter, wherever

outside of the pod just brings attention back to the pod. Right? So, like, it's It all brings credibility. Right? Because how many Yeah. People do you see on YouTube or TikTok or Twitter, wherever

01:10:10

that are like, you know, basically these bit, like, business gurus are like, you know, advice guys. Right. And you hear the advice guy, so then you, like, click their bio and you're like, so what have you done? What do you do? Oh,

that are like, you know, basically these bit, like, business gurus are like, you know, advice guys. Right. And you hear the advice guy, so then you, like, click their bio and you're like, so what have you done? What do you do? Oh,

01:10:20

your career is giving advice. Okay. But where'd you get that first hand knowledge? Do you have any battle scars? Like, oh, no. You're, you know, you're the bald barber.

your career is giving advice. Okay. But where'd you get that first hand knowledge? Do you have any battle scars? Like, oh, no. You're, you know, you're the bald barber.

01:10:29

Great. Like, you know, I'm not sure that I want I'm not sure that I want that. Right? So so I think that's also helpful. Right? Because if, like,

Great. Like, you know, I'm not sure that I want I'm not sure that I want that. Right? So so I think that's also helpful. Right? Because if, like,

01:10:36

Bob Barber, by the way, chef's kiss. Alright. Thank you. Good job. I faxed my my improv on the fly. I decided to take a few more risks of, like,

Bob Barber, by the way, chef's kiss. Alright. Thank you. Good job. I faxed my my improv on the fly. I decided to take a few more risks of, like,

01:10:45

tee up that I'm gonna make the joke and see if my brain in that point five seconds come up with something. And if I if I fall flat, you know, two out of three times, that's okay. That's still one one that I get right. Even a even a blind squirrel finds it not my friend, you're getting great. Exactly.

tee up that I'm gonna make the joke and see if my brain in that point five seconds come up with something. And if I if I fall flat, you know, two out of three times, that's okay. That's still one one that I get right. Even a even a blind squirrel finds it not my friend, you're getting great. Exactly.

01:11:00

So, yeah. Basically, I I think it gives credibility, right? Like, during the pod,

So, yeah. Basically, I I think it gives credibility, right? Like, during the pod,

01:11:06

you know, I built the milk road and sold it during, like, while the pod was live. So that adds some credibility. During the pod, Sam launches Hampton. It's clearly

you know, I built the milk road and sold it during, like, while the pod was live. So that adds some credibility. During the pod, Sam launches Hampton. It's clearly

01:11:14

gonna be successful or already already off to to a successful start. It gives a pod credibility. And I think that's why, like, why does all in work really well? Like, Obviously, they have good banter, they have good things to say. But I think a big part of it is, like, they bring a certain gravity

gonna be successful or already already off to to a successful start. It gives a pod credibility. And I think that's why, like, why does all in work really well? Like, Obviously, they have good banter, they have good things to say. But I think a big part of it is, like, they bring a certain gravity

01:11:29

to the room.

to the room.

01:11:30

They're participating in the story as it's unfair. Yeah. Like, the easiest way I explained it was all in is billionaires talking about billionaire shit. And my first millionaire my first million is millionaires talking about millionaire shit. And, like, and I've heard of people, like, college kids come out and be like, we're we're broke guys talking about broke guys shit. That's like, alright.

They're participating in the story as it's unfair. Yeah. Like, the easiest way I explained it was all in is billionaires talking about billionaire shit. And my first millionaire my first million is millionaires talking about millionaire shit. And, like, and I've heard of people, like, college kids come out and be like, we're we're broke guys talking about broke guys shit. That's like, alright.

01:11:47

Like, that's that's the way to go, but I think it adds credibility because there's a lot of people out there who will create content, tell you about the next big thing, but they don't invest. They don't have skin in the game. They don't know actually what's going on. They'll tell you, you know, how to be successful and they're, you know, broken to press. So it's like, you gotta be careful with who you listen to. It's like, I'd rather listen to somebody who's done it before than somebody who hasn't. It's just as simple as that. Yep.

Like, that's that's the way to go, but I think it adds credibility because there's a lot of people out there who will create content, tell you about the next big thing, but they don't invest. They don't have skin in the game. They don't know actually what's going on. They'll tell you, you know, how to be successful and they're, you know, broken to press. So it's like, you gotta be careful with who you listen to. It's like, I'd rather listen to somebody who's done it before than somebody who hasn't. It's just as simple as that. Yep.

01:12:10

Yep.

Yep.

01:12:11

Which that, I think, is the whole unlock podcasting

Which that, I think, is the whole unlock podcasting

01:12:14

that, like, is

that, like, is

01:12:16

a problem with the traditional media industry. Like, one of the, it wasn't

a problem with the traditional media industry. Like, one of the, it wasn't

01:12:21

explicitly

explicitly

01:12:21

in my or our minds when we started acquired, but, like, I'd gone to business school.

in my or our minds when we started acquired, but, like, I'd gone to business school.

01:12:26

I went Stanford to get my MBA there. It was great experience.

I went Stanford to get my MBA there. It was great experience.

01:12:29

But, like, the classroom experience, like, the professors, not the guests who had come in, who had done stuff, but, like, the professors who are full time academics. And then the cases that we would do, just be like, you guys didn't do this shit. Like, why are you telling me about this? Like, I wanna hear from the people who did it. And so journalists that cover the tech industry. It's like, how many people going from being successful founders to entering the journalism industry and writing for a paper? Like, a few like Michael Michael Morwitz, by the way. Michael Morwitz, you know, Doug Leon's partner. Yeah. Maritz. Yeah. I'm sorry, Maritz. He, journalist turned billionaire. Yeah. And, like, those A VC in the middle there.

But, like, the classroom experience, like, the professors, not the guests who had come in, who had done stuff, but, like, the professors who are full time academics. And then the cases that we would do, just be like, you guys didn't do this shit. Like, why are you telling me about this? Like, I wanna hear from the people who did it. And so journalists that cover the tech industry. It's like, how many people going from being successful founders to entering the journalism industry and writing for a paper? Like, a few like Michael Michael Morwitz, by the way. Michael Morwitz, you know, Doug Leon's partner. Yeah. Maritz. Yeah. I'm sorry, Maritz. He, journalist turned billionaire. Yeah. And, like, those A VC in the middle there.

01:13:09

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Those,

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Those,

01:13:12

you know, I remember. Journalist to VC, once I win But the reverse pipeline doesn't exist. So, like Yeah. I always have to remind myself of this when I'm reading tech coverage. I'm like, okay. The the very best ones of these people have immersed themselves in the operator founder communities to be able to, like, pick up the Genesiqua and read between the lines of what certain things mean. Like Dan Primac is one of these types of people. But,

you know, I remember. Journalist to VC, once I win But the reverse pipeline doesn't exist. So, like Yeah. I always have to remind myself of this when I'm reading tech coverage. I'm like, okay. The the very best ones of these people have immersed themselves in the operator founder communities to be able to, like, pick up the Genesiqua and read between the lines of what certain things mean. Like Dan Primac is one of these types of people. But,

01:13:34

you know, a a a junior journalist

you know, a a a junior journalist

01:13:37

coming out of journalism school, writing, and picking up this beat, it's like,

coming out of journalism school, writing, and picking up this beat, it's like,

01:13:41

I it's hard to say that that's a better way to learn what's going on than listening to people who are industry participants talking about what's going on. I remember once I went to a, journalist,

I it's hard to say that that's a better way to learn what's going on than listening to people who are industry participants talking about what's going on. I remember once I went to a, journalist,

01:13:54

somebody who worked at TechCrunch.

somebody who worked at TechCrunch.

01:13:56

I went to their apartment in San Francisco,

I went to their apartment in San Francisco,

01:13:59

And I just, like, walked in, and I looked around,

And I just, like, walked in, and I looked around,

01:14:02

and I was, like, this is the same apartment as, like,

and I was, like, this is the same apartment as, like,

01:14:05

everybody I know right out of college has,

everybody I know right out of college has,

01:14:08

And I was like, and then they have this pen, and then they get right on Tech Crunch. And then it looks like very different, but, like, is a person who's just a no they're a normal person

And I was like, and then they have this pen, and then they get right on Tech Crunch. And then it looks like very different, but, like, is a person who's just a no they're a normal person

01:14:19

who this is kinda like their first gig

who this is kinda like their first gig

01:14:22

and they're covering something that they barely like really true. Honestly, they barely understand. That doesn't mean they're not smart. Doesn't mean they're not good intentions. But, like, it's that thing where I forgot the the name of it, but it's, like, If you read an article about a topic you actually know about -- Yes. -- in the newspaper, you're like, oh, this is oh, okay. I see the limitations of how much stock. I should put into this. But when you read about topping, you don't know, you're like, this is the truth. Oh, the New York Times is an expert, and it's like, There is a Probably also got an expert on that. It's like what what it's called. Right. Do

and they're covering something that they barely like really true. Honestly, they barely understand. That doesn't mean they're not smart. Doesn't mean they're not good intentions. But, like, it's that thing where I forgot the the name of it, but it's, like, If you read an article about a topic you actually know about -- Yes. -- in the newspaper, you're like, oh, this is oh, okay. I see the limitations of how much stock. I should put into this. But when you read about topping, you don't know, you're like, this is the truth. Oh, the New York Times is an expert, and it's like, There is a Probably also got an expert on that. It's like what what it's called. Right. Do

01:14:52

do you guys remember a few years ago when one of the I think her name was Jen or something like that. One of the founders of away travel. Like, there was all these headlines saying, like, this woman created a toxic work place that's horrible. You gotta get it. And I was like, oh, this is a juicy story. Let's dig in. Where's the fraud? I love this shit. You read the slack messages that they're blishing. And you're like Yes. She said, start up. So someone, like, packed, like, she, like, opened up a package and it was horribly done. And She said, if this keeps or what did she say? She goes, I'm just gonna have to pack these boxes myself because whoever's running this must be brain dead. And I was like, Okay. Cool. Let's scroll. Where's the good stuff? Yeah. Where's and they're like, that's the thing. But she she said the word brain dead. I'm like, that's the toxic work environment. Like, come. On. Give me a break. That that that that ain't nice, but that's not New York Times headline shit. Give me a break. Like, I wanna see some So I'm fired for that. Right?

do you guys remember a few years ago when one of the I think her name was Jen or something like that. One of the founders of away travel. Like, there was all these headlines saying, like, this woman created a toxic work place that's horrible. You gotta get it. And I was like, oh, this is a juicy story. Let's dig in. Where's the fraud? I love this shit. You read the slack messages that they're blishing. And you're like Yes. She said, start up. So someone, like, packed, like, she, like, opened up a package and it was horribly done. And She said, if this keeps or what did she say? She goes, I'm just gonna have to pack these boxes myself because whoever's running this must be brain dead. And I was like, Okay. Cool. Let's scroll. Where's the good stuff? Yeah. Where's and they're like, that's the thing. But she she said the word brain dead. I'm like, that's the toxic work environment. Like, come. On. Give me a break. That that that that ain't nice, but that's not New York Times headline shit. Give me a break. Like, I wanna see some So I'm fired for that. Right?

01:15:46

Something like that. She bounced because of that. Like, that's It wasn't yet. It's the other woman. Not yeah. I forget what her name was, but like, I read that article. I'm like, there's no fraud. Like, she didn't, you know, like, there's no alcohol involved. What's going on? Give me something good. I want cocaine and hookers. I don't want brain dead. You know what I'm saying? At least, like, this is why there's so much value to, like, what you guys are doing that you're building businesses and talking about them that, like, We're investing. That's a full time VC. I used to be like,

Something like that. She bounced because of that. Like, that's It wasn't yet. It's the other woman. Not yeah. I forget what her name was, but like, I read that article. I'm like, there's no fraud. Like, she didn't, you know, like, there's no alcohol involved. What's going on? Give me something good. I want cocaine and hookers. I don't want brain dead. You know what I'm saying? At least, like, this is why there's so much value to, like, what you guys are doing that you're building businesses and talking about them that, like, We're investing. That's a full time VC. I used to be like,

01:16:13

we know what's going on in a way that if you're just a journalist, like, you can't. It's structurally impossible. Well, podcasts actually have more people from the field that come in and do it because a podcast is easier. You're talking. You're not writing. There's no barrier. You don't have to, like, edit and, like, you know, make a cool, fancy TikTok that, you know, you don't have to, like, layer in filters and stuff. It's just you said, no, you talk. That's why you see, like, Reed Hoffman. Oh, the straight up audio medium. Yeah. Just, like, straight audio,

we know what's going on in a way that if you're just a journalist, like, you can't. It's structurally impossible. Well, podcasts actually have more people from the field that come in and do it because a podcast is easier. You're talking. You're not writing. There's no barrier. You don't have to, like, edit and, like, you know, make a cool, fancy TikTok that, you know, you don't have to, like, layer in filters and stuff. It's just you said, no, you talk. That's why you see, like, Reed Hoffman. Oh, the straight up audio medium. Yeah. Just, like, straight audio,

01:16:38

or even audio with the webcam, like, you know, now I think that's getting a little bit easier. But basically, the podcast format, I think there's a reason why you see so many, like, ex athletes

or even audio with the webcam, like, you know, now I think that's getting a little bit easier. But basically, the podcast format, I think there's a reason why you see so many, like, ex athletes

01:16:46

do this where it's like, you know, the same thing. Like, you have skip Bayless who will just go say how this person is they don't have the clutch gene. It's like bro, that's not a gene. You know, they they, you know, and he'll just, like, he'll make fun of people. And then you have JJ Redick who's an ex player. So good. Old man, the three. So he's phenomenal at content. His and his point of view is so much better than than there's and that's why his stock is going up. Like his views are just going up and to the right. Because

do this where it's like, you know, the same thing. Like, you have skip Bayless who will just go say how this person is they don't have the clutch gene. It's like bro, that's not a gene. You know, they they, you know, and he'll just, like, he'll make fun of people. And then you have JJ Redick who's an ex player. So good. Old man, the three. So he's phenomenal at content. His and his point of view is so much better than than there's and that's why his stock is going up. Like his views are just going up and to the right. Because

01:17:12

he's good at this. He pulls real guests. When he pulls real guests, they talk, like, they don't talk like they're talking to a reporter because they played with JJ or they played against him. So they actually open up about stuff, but he's also not trying to trap them in these gotcha questions. So there's, like, some mutual trust there. And then he'll just share, like, know, when you're a player on the road, like, you know, this is the situation. Fans think you're practicing and blah blah blah, but actually here's what happens when you go in He's just saying what's what's really going on. And so to me, when you see that and again, it's because podcasting is a lot easier. If you told him, hey, I need you to write, like,

he's good at this. He pulls real guests. When he pulls real guests, they talk, like, they don't talk like they're talking to a reporter because they played with JJ or they played against him. So they actually open up about stuff, but he's also not trying to trap them in these gotcha questions. So there's, like, some mutual trust there. And then he'll just share, like, know, when you're a player on the road, like, you know, this is the situation. Fans think you're practicing and blah blah blah, but actually here's what happens when you go in He's just saying what's what's really going on. And so to me, when you see that and again, it's because podcasting is a lot easier. If you told him, hey, I need you to write, like,

01:17:44

beautiful,

beautiful,

01:17:45

well written blog posts every other day. It'd be very hard to do. But for him to just, something happen, get on the mic from, give my point of view, they could do like, you get more credible experts in a podcasting than I think on any other, like, medium.

well written blog posts every other day. It'd be very hard to do. But for him to just, something happen, get on the mic from, give my point of view, they could do like, you get more credible experts in a podcasting than I think on any other, like, medium.

01:17:59

This is probably actually a good use of AI, is being able to turn the ramblings

This is probably actually a good use of AI, is being able to turn the ramblings

01:18:04

of people who are industry participants,

of people who are industry participants,

01:18:07

you run that transcript through and you say write this as if it was a New York Times article with a strong lead and, you know, this many words. Like, it is amazing,

you run that transcript through and you say write this as if it was a New York Times article with a strong lead and, you know, this many words. Like, it is amazing,

01:18:16

how I feel like I've transformed in my use of GPT over the last month where I was using it to try to answer questions, which it's fine at. But, of course, that's the first thing you're gonna do with a prompt. But my use case recently has been take

how I feel like I've transformed in my use of GPT over the last month where I was using it to try to answer questions, which it's fine at. But, of course, that's the first thing you're gonna do with a prompt. But my use case recently has been take

01:18:29

lots of stuff and feed it in as the prompt and then ask it to make it better. So, like, I wrote a LinkedIn post about our most recent acquired episode, and I fed it just pasted the whole thing into chat GPT. I was like, can you make this, like, more exciting? And can you make this more likely to go viral? And, like, is that literally all you said? So you basically copy and paste it back into words. You said, here's a LinkedIn post I wrote. Make it more exciting.

lots of stuff and feed it in as the prompt and then ask it to make it better. So, like, I wrote a LinkedIn post about our most recent acquired episode, and I fed it just pasted the whole thing into chat GPT. I was like, can you make this, like, more exciting? And can you make this more likely to go viral? And, like, is that literally all you said? So you basically copy and paste it back into words. You said, here's a LinkedIn post I wrote. Make it more exciting.

01:18:51

Let me see exactly what the prompt was. So I don't

Let me see exactly what the prompt was. So I don't

01:18:55

BS on the pod here. Okay. No one can check. It's AI.

BS on the pod here. Okay. No one can check. It's AI.

01:19:00

Can you please act as my editor and modify this to make it more likely to go viral as a LinkedIn post? That's so funny. And it indexed way in the other direction. Like, it went at full of emojis. And they're like, she'll fuck up and open it up. Capital letters. Cover the secrets, like, a lot of, like,

Can you please act as my editor and modify this to make it more likely to go viral as a LinkedIn post? That's so funny. And it indexed way in the other direction. Like, it went at full of emojis. And they're like, she'll fuck up and open it up. Capital letters. Cover the secrets, like, a lot of, like,

01:19:17

and so I had to tone it down, but I totally use that to and I and helped me rephrase a lot of things where I had like awkward phrasing that didn't flow well. It's a very good rewriter. Yeah. That's awesome. Totally agree. I'm I'm gonna start doing that. Well, guys, you're awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you for coming on.

and so I had to tone it down, but I totally use that to and I and helped me rephrase a lot of things where I had like awkward phrasing that didn't flow well. It's a very good rewriter. Yeah. That's awesome. Totally agree. I'm I'm gonna start doing that. Well, guys, you're awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you for coming on.

01:19:36

If you're listening to ARpod, go check out acquired. If you're listening on acquired,

If you're listening to ARpod, go check out acquired. If you're listening on acquired,

01:19:41

do the, as we call it. Should we teach them the gentleman's agreement Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the ladies understanding. Right? I feel like the gentleman's agreement and the ladies understanding has become like, you know, in wrestling when the rock would take the microphone,

do the, as we call it. Should we teach them the gentleman's agreement Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the ladies understanding. Right? I feel like the gentleman's agreement and the ladies understanding has become like, you know, in wrestling when the rock would take the microphone,

01:19:52

raised the people's eyebrow and you know he's gonna hit them with, like, the expected thing. But for some reason, you get excited just to hear him say it, Sam. You wanna hear it again. That's how you feel now with your this is your catch Tracy. Go ahead.

raised the people's eyebrow and you know he's gonna hit them with, like, the expected thing. But for some reason, you get excited just to hear him say it, Sam. You wanna hear it again. That's how you feel now with your this is your catch Tracy. Go ahead.

01:20:04

This is the gentleman's agreement. And so, basically, the way it works is, look, you're going to seven eleven. You're gonna go, buy gas whenever you are. And at the top, when you're about to pay, you, see a little jar and it's for, muscle distribution fee. And there's all that money in there. And, of course, you don't take that money. You leave a, a dollar there. No one's gonna stop by the way, if you took that money, but and that's basically what this podcast is. This podcast is free.

This is the gentleman's agreement. And so, basically, the way it works is, look, you're going to seven eleven. You're gonna go, buy gas whenever you are. And at the top, when you're about to pay, you, see a little jar and it's for, muscle distribution fee. And there's all that money in there. And, of course, you don't take that money. You leave a, a dollar there. No one's gonna stop by the way, if you took that money, but and that's basically what this podcast is. This podcast is free.

01:20:27

Us four, we just dedicated hours of our of our day to do this. But unlike every other podcast, this one's not free. Just like that jar, you gotta leave a dollar, meaning you gotta go and subscribe.

Us four, we just dedicated hours of our of our day to do this. But unlike every other podcast, this one's not free. Just like that jar, you gotta leave a dollar, meaning you gotta go and subscribe.

01:20:37

To acquired's podcast on Spotify

To acquired's podcast on Spotify

01:20:40

as well as iTunes and do the same with my first million on our YouTube page and you click, you click subscribe. It's called the gentleman's agreement because we're not there. Alright. We're just shaking our hands. Ladies agree what is it called? The ladies understanding, the gentleman's agreement. We're not there to help you guys out. It's just honesty. So everyone's doing it, don't be left out. You have to do this. That that's our that's our agreement. We create the content. You click subscribe.

as well as iTunes and do the same with my first million on our YouTube page and you click, you click subscribe. It's called the gentleman's agreement because we're not there. Alright. We're just shaking our hands. Ladies agree what is it called? The ladies understanding, the gentleman's agreement. We're not there to help you guys out. It's just honesty. So everyone's doing it, don't be left out. You have to do this. That that's our that's our agreement. We create the content. You click subscribe.

01:21:01

I love it. You guys are innovator.

I love it. You guys are innovator.

01:21:03

And there's real value. Like, it's not, you know,

And there's real value. Like, it's not, you know,

01:21:06

for our audience, if you go and subscribe to my first million, you're gonna get smarter. You're gonna get more ideas. Like, this benefits you. So it's not, you know, you're not just pulling money out of your wallet here. You're you're doing something that's gonna,

for our audience, if you go and subscribe to my first million, you're gonna get smarter. You're gonna get more ideas. Like, this benefits you. So it's not, you know, you're not just pulling money out of your wallet here. You're you're doing something that's gonna,

01:21:18

make your life more fun. And that's the gentleman's agreement, and that's the lady's understanding. David, do you wanna you wanna take us home? What were you saying?

make your life more fun. And that's the gentleman's agreement, and that's the lady's understanding. David, do you wanna you wanna take us home? What were you saying?

01:21:25

Oh, I was gonna ask, I could keep jamming with you guys for another hour. I was gonna ask you said Spotify. Do you like, where do you like people to subscribe? Spotify? YouTube. We use it all over the internet. Well, you said earlier that Spotify is your main thing. So once we started doing the gentleman's agreement, our YouTube channel went through the roof. So guys Oh.

Oh, I was gonna ask, I could keep jamming with you guys for another hour. I was gonna ask you said Spotify. Do you like, where do you like people to subscribe? Spotify? YouTube. We use it all over the internet. Well, you said earlier that Spotify is your main thing. So once we started doing the gentleman's agreement, our YouTube channel went through the roof. So guys Oh.

01:21:42

So, we went from, like, a hundred and fifty thousand subscribers to close to two hundred. And, like, a month or eight weeks or something like that. So We should do a,

So, we went from, like, a hundred and fifty thousand subscribers to close to two hundred. And, like, a month or eight weeks or something like that. So We should do a,

01:21:49

every pod giveaway

every pod giveaway

01:21:51

of YouTube premium to someone in the comments. So go go to our YouTube. Go to this episode on YouTube and just and just type in premium.

of YouTube premium to someone in the comments. So go go to our YouTube. Go to this episode on YouTube and just and just type in premium.

01:22:01

And we will pick somebody. We will pay for your YouTube premium so that you can listen to this pod ad ad free in the background. You can lock your phone and walk around. And, you can enjoy that sweet, sweet, fourteen point nine nine a month that we're gonna be paying for you for the year. So one year of YouTube premium in every episode,

And we will pick somebody. We will pay for your YouTube premium so that you can listen to this pod ad ad free in the background. You can lock your phone and walk around. And, you can enjoy that sweet, sweet, fourteen point nine nine a month that we're gonna be paying for you for the year. So one year of YouTube premium in every episode,

01:22:18

call it it now.

call it it now.

01:22:20

Oh, I love it. That is I'm still a reminder to go, comment because I am a YouTube premium subscriber, but I want you guys for the bill.

Oh, I love it. That is I'm still a reminder to go, comment because I am a YouTube premium subscriber, but I want you guys for the bill.

01:22:27

Thanks for doing this guys. We appreciate you. And,

Thanks for doing this guys. We appreciate you. And,

01:22:30

we'll, we'll have you back on and thank you for everything.

we'll, we'll have you back on and thank you for everything.

01:22:33

Likewise. See you guys. Catch you guys next time.

Likewise. See you guys. Catch you guys next time.

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