00:00

Most people should not be out there trying to build the next Facebook. And I think it's kinda fucked up that a lot of people try to tell people that's what they should do. Most people want Mazo's hierarchy of Nate. Right? You want your family taken care of. You want food on the table. You wanna be able to do the shit you wanna do on the weekends, and that's it. And so I like the portfolio actually better of a portfolio of small bets. I think of buying businesses a lot like I think about buying stocks.

Most people should not be out there trying to build the next Facebook. And I think it's kinda fucked up that a lot of people try to tell people that's what they should do. Most people want Mazo's hierarchy of Nate. Right? You want your family taken care of. You want food on the table. You wanna be able to do the shit you wanna do on the weekends, and that's it. And so I like the portfolio actually better of a portfolio of small bets. I think of buying businesses a lot like I think about buying stocks.

00:27

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

00:32

I put my all in it like a day's all going to roll. Let's travel never looking Sam, you showed up. I thought,

I put my all in it like a day's all going to roll. Let's travel never looking Sam, you showed up. I thought,

00:39

I thought you were too hungover from last night to pod that went till two in the morning,

I thought you were too hungover from last night to pod that went till two in the morning,

00:43

just to show up today.

just to show up today.

00:45

Dude, it went later for me. I mean, I didn't go to bed till four. What time did you? What time? What time was it over for you? It ended, but my brain didn't turn off. So, like, I don't even know if I slept last night. I stripped. So we so Cody, we had,

Dude, it went later for me. I mean, I didn't go to bed till four. What time did you? What time? What time was it over for you? It ended, but my brain didn't turn off. So, like, I don't even know if I slept last night. I stripped. So we so Cody, we had,

00:59

biology on the pod yesterday. And, I don't know if you know how he's kind of a real smart smart dude. And he definitely,

biology on the pod yesterday. And, I don't know if you know how he's kind of a real smart smart dude. And he definitely,

01:06

you know, has, like, a ton of different ideas and thoughts, and he's, like, super, super smart on a math perspective science,

you know, has, like, a ton of different ideas and thoughts, and he's, like, super, super smart on a math perspective science,

01:13

you know, technically for computer science.

you know, technically for computer science.

01:15

And so he was, you know, rattling off a bunch of interesting things.

And so he was, you know, rattling off a bunch of interesting things.

01:18

But when he left, and I'm going to sleep, and it's just, you know, you know, I'm sitting there. I'm in bed, my dog's in the bed. And, like, my mind is, like, making up straight up. I was just making up, like, scientific theories in its head. Like, you know, that state where you're dreaming, but you're, you know, like, lucid dreaming or whatever. You're, like, kinda, like, half asleep. And so I was half asleep, but my mind was like, oh, but then the vector has to go to the scaler and then it has to, you know, the order of magnitude. And I was like, then I'd wake up, like, what the fuck am like, what the fuck is going to my head? This is not even this is gibberish. This is a scientific gibberish, and that straight up happened, like, the whole night. So, not a great Be prepared to be under

But when he left, and I'm going to sleep, and it's just, you know, you know, I'm sitting there. I'm in bed, my dog's in the bed. And, like, my mind is, like, making up straight up. I was just making up, like, scientific theories in its head. Like, you know, that state where you're dreaming, but you're, you know, like, lucid dreaming or whatever. You're, like, kinda, like, half asleep. And so I was half asleep, but my mind was like, oh, but then the vector has to go to the scaler and then it has to, you know, the order of magnitude. And I was like, then I'd wake up, like, what the fuck am like, what the fuck is going to my head? This is not even this is gibberish. This is a scientific gibberish, and that straight up happened, like, the whole night. So, not a great Be prepared to be under

01:53

in comparison to him today. I think is the moral of the story. Well,

in comparison to him today. I think is the moral of the story. Well,

02:00

he

he

02:02

He's just like

He's just like

02:03

like we've had a

like we've had a

02:05

I think we've had one other person on the podcast. Like, I guess Michael Taylor could be this But I I for sure think that,

I think we've had one other person on the podcast. Like, I guess Michael Taylor could be this But I I for sure think that,

02:12

Raful from superhuman was like this, but there's, like, this, a handful of people who we've talked to. And you know, people say, like, oh, that person's a genius. They're not they don't really mean it. But if we define Genus as just like a certain IQ, I would bet a lot of money that that he was the highest IQ person that I've ever had a conversation with. And it was very obvious.

Raful from superhuman was like this, but there's, like, this, a handful of people who we've talked to. And you know, people say, like, oh, that person's a genius. They're not they don't really mean it. But if we define Genus as just like a certain IQ, I would bet a lot of money that that he was the highest IQ person that I've ever had a conversation with. And it was very obvious.

02:31

And he actually was quite he tried really hard to hide it in that he tried to act nice and friendly. Yeah. And there was times where he was like, sorry. You guys probably don't understand that. Let me try to reexplain. And that was that was actually pretty cool, but she just

And he actually was quite he tried really hard to hide it in that he tried to act nice and friendly. Yeah. And there was times where he was like, sorry. You guys probably don't understand that. Let me try to reexplain. And that was that was actually pretty cool, but she just

02:46

He's he's just smarter than me. Like his his his oven just burns hotter and I and there's nothing I could do to try to understand that. Like,

He's he's just smarter than me. Like his his his oven just burns hotter and I and there's nothing I could do to try to understand that. Like,

02:54

I remember one time. I I didn't wanna embarrass Sean, but, like, biology was telling something and he used some he used math metaphor. He's like, he's like, he's like, what I try to find is the dot product between me and this and I was like dot product. I remember that, like, in eighth grade. I I heard this phrase fifteen years ago, didn't understand it then. Never ever thought about it again. And then he's referencing it for, like, the way he thinks about something. He's like, you know, so I try to find the dot product. And I was, like, fuck it. I don't know what that means. But but he Like, she went from math. So he was talking about math to talk about an idea, and then he moved to like,

I remember one time. I I didn't wanna embarrass Sean, but, like, biology was telling something and he used some he used math metaphor. He's like, he's like, he's like, what I try to find is the dot product between me and this and I was like dot product. I remember that, like, in eighth grade. I I heard this phrase fifteen years ago, didn't understand it then. Never ever thought about it again. And then he's referencing it for, like, the way he thinks about something. He's like, you know, so I try to find the dot product. And I was, like, fuck it. I don't know what that means. But but he Like, she went from math. So he was talking about math to talk about an idea, and then he moved to like,

03:26

this one battle, like, some type of chemical. And then he went to the battle of the ball. And he goes to Sean, he goes, Sean, you know, like, you know, like, it's a battle of the Bolt. Right?

this one battle, like, some type of chemical. And then he went to the battle of the ball. And he goes to Sean, he goes, Sean, you know, like, you know, like, it's a battle of the Bolt. Right?

03:34

And Sean was like, yeah. And he's I don't think he knew what the battle of the Bowl was, But What were for? Yeah.

And Sean was like, yeah. And he's I don't think he knew what the battle of the Bowl was, But What were for? Yeah.

03:42

Anyway, it was an interesting podcast, but this this isn't about him. This is about you. That's what we could put you guys for.

Anyway, it was an interesting podcast, but this this isn't about him. This is about you. That's what we could put you guys for.

03:49

Sometimes I'm kinda glad I'm not like that honestly. Could you imagine how like, you felt like that last night, Sean? Could you imagine being in his head every day or at, like, a dinner with normal people. He probably wants to kill himself.

Sometimes I'm kinda glad I'm not like that honestly. Could you imagine how like, you felt like that last night, Sean? Could you imagine being in his head every day or at, like, a dinner with normal people. He probably wants to kill himself.

04:00

Yeah. We were we even asked him about that stuff. We were like, you know,

Yeah. We were we even asked him about that stuff. We were like, you know,

04:04

We asked a whole bunch of questions that were, like, I hope not even, like, condescending, but we're kinda, like, were you always like this? And, like, what is what's your family think? Like, were you, like, an oddball to them? Or are they like, was this, like, totally normal? Cause I've never met somebody like you. So I wanna know, like, what's your life like? What do you do for fun? Like,

We asked a whole bunch of questions that were, like, I hope not even, like, condescending, but we're kinda, like, were you always like this? And, like, what is what's your family think? Like, were you, like, an oddball to them? Or are they like, was this, like, totally normal? Cause I've never met somebody like you. So I wanna know, like, what's your life like? What do you do for fun? Like,

04:20

you know, how does this all work? And so asked him a bunch of goofy questions like that. Actually, unfortunately, the best the very best part was at the end after the recording ended, and we just kinda

you know, how does this all work? And so asked him a bunch of goofy questions like that. Actually, unfortunately, the best the very best part was at the end after the recording ended, and we just kinda

04:29

after a three and a half hour podcast, we then shot the like, thirty minutes. And it was great, and his guard was totally down. And, that was awesome. And then Sam started helping him with his newsletter tips, and he was, like, taking notes And he was like, oh, this this is great. This is awesome stuff. And, like, that was ironically the best and the simplest part of the podcast. And then we had, like, three and a half hours of, like, good stuff, but in a

after a three and a half hour podcast, we then shot the like, thirty minutes. And it was great, and his guard was totally down. And, that was awesome. And then Sam started helping him with his newsletter tips, and he was, like, taking notes And he was like, oh, this this is great. This is awesome stuff. And, like, that was ironically the best and the simplest part of the podcast. And then we had, like, three and a half hours of, like, good stuff, but in a

04:51

I mean, the way you said it, his oven burns hotter than ours. And so, you know, I didn't feel like we were able to really

I mean, the way you said it, his oven burns hotter than ours. And so, you know, I didn't feel like we were able to really

04:56

add too much to the conversation or really, like, steer it because I was, like, riding a bronco that I didn't know how to ride. Basically, it was too smart for me. I love that. Can't wait to hear it. That's good. Anyways.

add too much to the conversation or really, like, steer it because I was, like, riding a bronco that I didn't know how to ride. Basically, it was too smart for me. I love that. Can't wait to hear it. That's good. Anyways.

05:07

So,

So,

05:08

with that out of the way, welcome to our guest.

with that out of the way, welcome to our guest.

05:11

Cody's Cody's here. So, Cody, how I guess, like, how do you explain yourself, when you kinda introduce yourself? Cause you have

Cody's Cody's here. So, Cody, how I guess, like, how do you explain yourself, when you kinda introduce yourself? Cause you have

05:20

a newsletter. That's pretty cool. Con you know,

a newsletter. That's pretty cool. Con you know,

05:23

this country and cash flow newsletter,

this country and cash flow newsletter,

05:25

you have an investment

you have an investment

05:27

fund and business there. You have built an own businesses. I think majority share in some businesses. So, like, what do you how do you describe this jack of all trades? So, hi. I'm Cody. Here's what I do. What do you say? Well, I think if I'm on an airplane sitting next to somebody, I usually tell them I'm a salesperson, so I don't have to talk too much. But in in a conversation where I was trying to impress somebody,

fund and business there. You have built an own businesses. I think majority share in some businesses. So, like, what do you how do you describe this jack of all trades? So, hi. I'm Cody. Here's what I do. What do you say? Well, I think if I'm on an airplane sitting next to somebody, I usually tell them I'm a salesperson, so I don't have to talk too much. But in in a conversation where I was trying to impress somebody,

05:46

You know what, I'd probably say I'm an investor. I am a private equity investor. I run a fund that's about a couple hundred million bucks focused on cannabis before that. I did emerging markets, couple of billion dollars raised there. And, and now I write about all the things I wish I knew when I was first figuring out anything to do with this green language of money.

You know what, I'd probably say I'm an investor. I am a private equity investor. I run a fund that's about a couple hundred million bucks focused on cannabis before that. I did emerging markets, couple of billion dollars raised there. And, and now I write about all the things I wish I knew when I was first figuring out anything to do with this green language of money.

06:06

And I do that at country and thinking, and I mailed the two. But I think these days, that's not that weird. There's a ton of VCs Not so many PE investors out there probably

And I do that at country and thinking, and I mailed the two. But I think these days, that's not that weird. There's a ton of VCs Not so many PE investors out there probably

06:15

that write about investing and share their ideas. And I kinda think that's probably the future and way it's going going forward.

that write about investing and share their ideas. And I kinda think that's probably the future and way it's going going forward.

06:21

You you I didn't know that. I knew that you have the newsletter, but so you have a you've run a a two hundred million dollars. There's five partners. But, yeah, we have two hundred million dollar cannabis private equity fund. We invest in companies that do, like, ten to fifty million dollars in revenue. Largely, it's called entourage effect capital.

You you I didn't know that. I knew that you have the newsletter, but so you have a you've run a a two hundred million dollars. There's five partners. But, yeah, we have two hundred million dollar cannabis private equity fund. We invest in companies that do, like, ten to fifty million dollars in revenue. Largely, it's called entourage effect capital.

06:40

And, we've invested in sixty seven companies thus far. Some cool ones,

And, we've invested in sixty seven companies thus far. Some cool ones,

06:46

you know, that you all would know. I think there's been six unicorns in there far. So, you know, you guys with maybe no GTI green thumb industries, acreage, canopy growth,

you know, that you all would know. I think there's been six unicorns in there far. So, you know, you guys with maybe no GTI green thumb industries, acreage, canopy growth,

06:55

coral leaf. I don't know. If you're big weed connoisseurs, you'd know them. And then, and then we have a smaller fund that's about twenty million bucks. That's for micro PE.

coral leaf. I don't know. If you're big weed connoisseurs, you'd know them. And then, and then we have a smaller fund that's about twenty million bucks. That's for micro PE.

07:06

So that's just me and a couple other partners' money where we buy small businesses.

So that's just me and a couple other partners' money where we buy small businesses.

07:11

And that's if if we'd sort of fancy and fancy, I guess, trendy.

And that's if if we'd sort of fancy and fancy, I guess, trendy.

07:16

Then the other one are super boring and things that, you know, your your father did when you were growing up, and you didn't tell people about.

Then the other one are super boring and things that, you know, your your father did when you were growing up, and you didn't tell people about.

07:25

And that's like, give us examples. We're talking laundromats. We're talking,

And that's like, give us examples. We're talking laundromats. We're talking,

07:29

what what are we talking about plumbing businesses? What are you looking at? The first one was a plumbing deal. We started it because my uncle, Ed, he had a five million dollar business. Let me make sure I get the numbers right. That was doing about two to three million dollars in profit, and he was old. You know, seventies ish, and he was a sharecropper. He grew up in a sharecropping family,

what what are we talking about plumbing businesses? What are you looking at? The first one was a plumbing deal. We started it because my uncle, Ed, he had a five million dollar business. Let me make sure I get the numbers right. That was doing about two to three million dollars in profit, and he was old. You know, seventies ish, and he was a sharecropper. He grew up in a sharecropping family,

07:48

didn't know anything about the business world. And when he came to,

didn't know anything about the business world. And when he came to,

07:52

retire, he didn't know anything about M and A. So instead of selling the company, he basically just wound it down.

retire, he didn't know anything about M and A. So instead of selling the company, he basically just wound it down.

07:58

And,

And,

07:59

and, you know, he took a company that had two to three million dollars in profit and just just, you know, let everybody go and and sort of wound on the business. And I thought that was a real waste. And so,

and, you know, he took a company that had two to three million dollars in profit and just just, you know, let everybody go and and sort of wound on the business. And I thought that was a real waste. And so,

08:08

we realized, wait a second. There's actually, like, a business model here. It's called PE. I've been doing it for twelve years at Goldman and Vanguard and State Street and all these different firms. Why don't why don't they apply this to these micro sized businesses, anything below three mil? And, instead of us making a bunch of money for other people, we can make money for ourselves. So we ended up taking an offshoot of Evholmes Plumbing. You can look it up. It's in Phoenix,

we realized, wait a second. There's actually, like, a business model here. It's called PE. I've been doing it for twelve years at Goldman and Vanguard and State Street and all these different firms. Why don't why don't they apply this to these micro sized businesses, anything below three mil? And, instead of us making a bunch of money for other people, we can make money for ourselves. So we ended up taking an offshoot of Evholmes Plumbing. You can look it up. It's in Phoenix,

08:30

and we bought a another plumbing company rolled it in, sold that that was a little tiny company.

and we bought a another plumbing company rolled it in, sold that that was a little tiny company.

08:36

And, and then I've done it for a bunch of others. And now we own laundromats. We own a podcast production company.

And, and then I've done it for a bunch of others. And now we own laundromats. We own a podcast production company.

08:42

We own some lawn care businesses.

We own some lawn care businesses.

08:45

We own a professional services business that's in the cleaning space. So a slew of tiny sort of boring businesses. And most of the time,

We own a professional services business that's in the cleaning space. So a slew of tiny sort of boring businesses. And most of the time,

08:53

I don't operate any of them. There's somebody else that's an operator in them or we place somebody in the business.

I don't operate any of them. There's somebody else that's an operator in them or we place somebody in the business.

08:59

We love this model. Me and Sam both, and a couple of our best friends started a kind of micro pea firm we invested in, and I think have been know, Sam. I don't know how how closely you track them, but we've been I've been learning a ton as they look at all these different deals. And it just seems like there's a huge generational shift of

We love this model. Me and Sam both, and a couple of our best friends started a kind of micro pea firm we invested in, and I think have been know, Sam. I don't know how how closely you track them, but we've been I've been learning a ton as they look at all these different deals. And it just seems like there's a huge generational shift of

09:15

people who are aging out of their business and need to hand it off. The kids don't wanna take it over necessarily or or aren't able to or whatever. And so, basically, the boomers handing over business that there's just like all these businesses that are beautiful,

people who are aging out of their business and need to hand it off. The kids don't wanna take it over necessarily or or aren't able to or whatever. And so, basically, the boomers handing over business that there's just like all these businesses that are beautiful,

09:27

five, fifteen million dollars a year, profitable,

five, fifteen million dollars a year, profitable,

09:30

super steady book of business.

super steady book of business.

09:32

And you can you could buy these out like super reasonable multiples.

And you can you could buy these out like super reasonable multiples.

09:37

Yeah. It's like a sixty five, seventy year old mom and dad whose kids went to a good school, and they're like,

Yeah. It's like a sixty five, seventy year old mom and dad whose kids went to a good school, and they're like,

09:44

I'd rather work at Facebook than run the moving company, please. I don't wanna do that.

I'd rather work at Facebook than run the moving company, please. I don't wanna do that.

09:50

So and they're like, alright. What do we do now? A hundred percent. And that's what these guys are buying. It's it's going great.

So and they're like, alright. What do we do now? A hundred percent. And that's what these guys are buying. It's it's going great.

09:56

Like, I get their updates. They're making a lot of money. And, sir, can you

Like, I get their updates. They're making a lot of money. And, sir, can you

10:01

can you draw a quick line? So, like, let's do a quick hop through the resume because so people because I think where you're at now is super interesting. Anytime I meet somebody who's in a really interesting spot now, I'm like, how the hell did you get there? So you said something like Goldman, but, like, without going into the details of, like, oh, I did this, and here's how it went. Just sort of, like, I went to school thinking I do this. First job was here. Second job was here. Third job was here. Now I'm here. Like, Jake, can you give us that? Yeah. That's short and sweet. So I went to school totally unrelated to anything financial. I'm not really a a finance nerd at the core.

can you draw a quick line? So, like, let's do a quick hop through the resume because so people because I think where you're at now is super interesting. Anytime I meet somebody who's in a really interesting spot now, I'm like, how the hell did you get there? So you said something like Goldman, but, like, without going into the details of, like, oh, I did this, and here's how it went. Just sort of, like, I went to school thinking I do this. First job was here. Second job was here. Third job was here. Now I'm here. Like, Jake, can you give us that? Yeah. That's short and sweet. So I went to school totally unrelated to anything financial. I'm not really a a finance nerd at the core.

10:31

I started off in human,

I started off in human,

10:34

trafficking and drug smuggling as a journalist, not doing

trafficking and drug smuggling as a journalist, not doing

10:37

but along the US Mexico border.

but along the US Mexico border.

10:40

So,

So,

10:41

so I was covering things like,

so I was covering things like,

10:43

you know, old people being left behind at the border,

you know, old people being left behind at the border,

10:47

and,

and,

10:48

you know, went with a couple coyotes and actually saw what the process was like. And anyway, super young at the time. Thought I was gonna change the world, realize like, you know, Britney Spears Shapes her head, and nobody cares about these stories. So maybe there's a different way. And so, anyway,

you know, went with a couple coyotes and actually saw what the process was like. And anyway, super young at the time. Thought I was gonna change the world, realize like, you know, Britney Spears Shapes her head, and nobody cares about these stories. So maybe there's a different way. And so, anyway,

11:02

so moved from,

so moved from,

11:03

journalism to had my little quarter life crisis

journalism to had my little quarter life crisis

11:07

and decided that maybe I wanted to understand finance because my last name Sanchez, All these people's last name was Sanchez, Suarez, whatever the case may be, and I was in a very different position than they were. So I was like, what's the difference? Why are they there? And I'm here, and I think the only difference is green. It's not actually even that I'm American.

and decided that maybe I wanted to understand finance because my last name Sanchez, All these people's last name was Sanchez, Suarez, whatever the case may be, and I was in a very different position than they were. So I was like, what's the difference? Why are they there? And I'm here, and I think the only difference is green. It's not actually even that I'm American.

11:23

And so went to from there, I got recruited to go to Vanguard, accelerated development program, saw a bunch of parts of finance, didn't understand any of it, but journalists, we ask a lot of questions. So it's pretty decent at that. So ask a lot of questions.

And so went to from there, I got recruited to go to Vanguard, accelerated development program, saw a bunch of parts of finance, didn't understand any of it, but journalists, we ask a lot of questions. So it's pretty decent at that. So ask a lot of questions.

11:36

Got from Vanguard, they're all about passive investing. Right? So create an index. That was at the very beginning ETFs.

Got from Vanguard, they're all about passive investing. Right? So create an index. That was at the very beginning ETFs.

11:43

And create an index and replicate and replicate and replicate. And I thought that was cool, but not that sexy or fun. So I went to Goldman, And I wanted to understand active. How do we do IPOs? What do these alternatives look like? Because they're more margin than went from Gold Menda State Street

And create an index and replicate and replicate and replicate. And I thought that was cool, but not that sexy or fun. So I went to Goldman, And I wanted to understand active. How do we do IPOs? What do these alternatives look like? Because they're more margin than went from Gold Menda State Street

11:59

ran a international investment business for State Street at the time, and then

ran a international investment business for State Street at the time, and then

12:05

left did a JV with a company called First Trust

left did a JV with a company called First Trust

12:08

and built out their international portion. So I grew the business to a couple of billion in Latin America,

and built out their international portion. So I grew the business to a couple of billion in Latin America,

12:14

and, and, basically, we sold products to big pension, sovereign wealth funds. Etcetera.

and, and, basically, we sold products to big pension, sovereign wealth funds. Etcetera.

12:19

And then after that business, I was ready to exit, myriad of reasons,

And then after that business, I was ready to exit, myriad of reasons,

12:24

and looking for the next emerging market.

and looking for the next emerging market.

12:26

And I sort of invested in cannabis a few years back, but real quiet. Wasn't sure my mom would approve, and, and then went full in as a partner into EEC.

And I sort of invested in cannabis a few years back, but real quiet. Wasn't sure my mom would approve, and, and then went full in as a partner into EEC.

12:36

What's your,

What's your,

12:38

what's your heritage? You said that you're are you I you're talking about the four Yeah. So my fan, my father's half. So I'm half Spanish half Mexican.

what's your heritage? You said that you're are you I you're talking about the four Yeah. So my fan, my father's half. So I'm half Spanish half Mexican.

12:45

Are you Catholic? Yes.

Are you Catholic? Yes.

12:48

Me too. So,

Me too. So,

12:49

a Mexican Catholic mother probably wasn't fan of, of what you're doing. Baby's a baby's a weed financier. She was really excited about it.

a Mexican Catholic mother probably wasn't fan of, of what you're doing. Baby's a baby's a weed financier. She was really excited about it.

12:58

Just making daddy proud. But, you know, I think once we kinda understood I mean, here's my pitch on cannabis, but once we kinda understood the, you know, psychoactive portion of it and the benefits for those who are overusing opioids. Like, I got her around to it, but certainly up front, she was not thrilled about that. But that's when you know, right, when people think you're a little crazy for doing something, there's usually at least some opportunity left. Otherwise, all the smart people would have moved first, and I'm not smarter than anybody else. I'm just better at maybe finding some early emerging markets people won't go into yet. And I thought you would be a great guest two reasons. A, I went on your thing and you were so prepared.

Just making daddy proud. But, you know, I think once we kinda understood I mean, here's my pitch on cannabis, but once we kinda understood the, you know, psychoactive portion of it and the benefits for those who are overusing opioids. Like, I got her around to it, but certainly up front, she was not thrilled about that. But that's when you know, right, when people think you're a little crazy for doing something, there's usually at least some opportunity left. Otherwise, all the smart people would have moved first, and I'm not smarter than anybody else. I'm just better at maybe finding some early emerging markets people won't go into yet. And I thought you would be a great guest two reasons. A, I went on your thing and you were so prepared.

13:36

I'm not anywhere near as prepared for this as you were for me, unfortunately, but I knew enough, which was Oh, she's great at talking and, which is, like, half the battle. And then the other half is, like, oh, wait. She's, like, wicked smart with a bunch of industries that I think people don't know a ton about. So micro PE, I know there's a lot of people interested, but for most people, it's a little bit daunting. They don't understand do I identify the businesses? How do you value them? How do you buy them? What do you do after you buy them? That sort of thing. And the same thing with cannabis,

I'm not anywhere near as prepared for this as you were for me, unfortunately, but I knew enough, which was Oh, she's great at talking and, which is, like, half the battle. And then the other half is, like, oh, wait. She's, like, wicked smart with a bunch of industries that I think people don't know a ton about. So micro PE, I know there's a lot of people interested, but for most people, it's a little bit daunting. They don't understand do I identify the businesses? How do you value them? How do you buy them? What do you do after you buy them? That sort of thing. And the same thing with cannabis,

14:02

people kinda know it's a big market, but

people kinda know it's a big market, but

14:05

don't spend, you know, if you're not spending every day in that world, you don't know how it's going. How what's what's been growing? It's a use Exactly.

don't spend, you know, if you're not spending every day in that world, you don't know how it's going. How what's what's been growing? It's a use Exactly.

14:12

A bunch of things. So you sent us ideas

A bunch of things. So you sent us ideas

14:14

on the micro PE side. You sent us ideas on the cannabis side, and then you sent us some controversial thoughts Sam, where do you wanna start, of those three?

on the micro PE side. You sent us ideas on the cannabis side, and then you sent us some controversial thoughts Sam, where do you wanna start, of those three?

14:24

The ideas, particularly the the she posted something in trends about mailbox

The ideas, particularly the the she posted something in trends about mailbox

14:28

mailboxes.

mailboxes.

14:29

So, like, you just have like

So, like, you just have like

14:32

five or eight different things that I think are interesting. They're not like huge home runs, but their

five or eight different things that I think are interesting. They're not like huge home runs, but their

14:39

small business

small business

14:40

entrepreneur, like, stuff shit that, like, an immigrant who came from nothing, like, would start and then eventually did it for thirty years and they would have

entrepreneur, like, stuff shit that, like, an immigrant who came from nothing, like, would start and then eventually did it for thirty years and they would have

14:48

let's rapid

let's rapid

14:49

fire them, and here's how we'll do it. You sent us this bullet point list. I'm just gonna say the phrase and you'd be like, okay. So here's what I'm thinking. And then if we just wanna switch, if I'm like, oh, okay. That's great. I'm just gonna throw another one at you. And then you go from there. I think you'll be able to volley these pretty well. Alright. So let's do that one. Mailbox money? What are you what are you thinking about here? So this is pack and ship centers. So, basically, think FedEx, UPS, except get rid of the franchise fees, because that's twenty five percent of your your profit off the top. And instead, you just put, you know, Sam and Sean's shipping center on the front of it, and what this is that I didn't realize, my friend Lisa did it. I'm always curious for my people who make money in ways that are repeatable. Since I'm not smart enough, like biology or whatever his name is to create the next Tesla. Instead, I just want a bunch of stuff that cash flows now.

fire them, and here's how we'll do it. You sent us this bullet point list. I'm just gonna say the phrase and you'd be like, okay. So here's what I'm thinking. And then if we just wanna switch, if I'm like, oh, okay. That's great. I'm just gonna throw another one at you. And then you go from there. I think you'll be able to volley these pretty well. Alright. So let's do that one. Mailbox money? What are you what are you thinking about here? So this is pack and ship centers. So, basically, think FedEx, UPS, except get rid of the franchise fees, because that's twenty five percent of your your profit off the top. And instead, you just put, you know, Sam and Sean's shipping center on the front of it, and what this is that I didn't realize, my friend Lisa did it. I'm always curious for my people who make money in ways that are repeatable. Since I'm not smart enough, like biology or whatever his name is to create the next Tesla. Instead, I just want a bunch of stuff that cash flows now.

15:36

And so with this, know how everybody's obsessed with storage units? Like, everybody builds these storage centers, and that's been, like, the stretchy thing. Right. And and that's really just a riff on everybody was obsessed with multifamily and apartment beforehand. They're like going smaller and smaller and smaller. But still trying to get as much profit as possible. Well, that's what pack and chips are. So essentially,

And so with this, know how everybody's obsessed with storage units? Like, everybody builds these storage centers, and that's been, like, the stretchy thing. Right. And and that's really just a riff on everybody was obsessed with multifamily and apartment beforehand. They're like going smaller and smaller and smaller. But still trying to get as much profit as possible. Well, that's what pack and chips are. So essentially,

15:57

the money is not in the taping of boxes and the stuffing of stuffing to make sure stuff doesn't break, it's actually in the little mailboxes in the front.

the money is not in the taping of boxes and the stuffing of stuffing to make sure stuff doesn't break, it's actually in the little mailboxes in the front.

16:07

I was gonna ask you, what do you think a PO box rental. So at first, I like the trend,

I was gonna ask you, what do you think a PO box rental. So at first, I like the trend,

16:11

which is you're buying a box of real estate,

which is you're buying a box of real estate,

16:14

and you want, like, kind of these low operation,

and you want, like, kind of these low operation,

16:17

you know, rental units. So, okay, self storage, but now you shrink shrink the self storage unit instead of being, you know, a hundred square foot little room, you're shrinking it down into a one square foot box that you're renting out for twenty bucks. And what you were saying, so let's just do the math real quick on this. You're saying Two hundred boxes in a location roughly. Is that right? Two hundred would be what you don't want. That's UPS FedEx. Go a thousand.

you know, rental units. So, okay, self storage, but now you shrink shrink the self storage unit instead of being, you know, a hundred square foot little room, you're shrinking it down into a one square foot box that you're renting out for twenty bucks. And what you were saying, so let's just do the math real quick on this. You're saying Two hundred boxes in a location roughly. Is that right? Two hundred would be what you don't want. That's UPS FedEx. Go a thousand.

16:40

Okay. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. That now the math math works. So a thousand boxes average fifteen dollars a month of renting out the PO boxes, And how do you get customers to, like, what does she do to get what does your friend Lisa do to get customers? How does she acquire these PO box tenants? I the smartest way, what I talked to her in to do, and she built the first one that took a year and a half to become profitable because she had to do what you were just talking about. It's not really that complex of the business. It's ads, so PPC.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. That now the math math works. So a thousand boxes average fifteen dollars a month of renting out the PO boxes, And how do you get customers to, like, what does she do to get what does your friend Lisa do to get customers? How does she acquire these PO box tenants? I the smartest way, what I talked to her in to do, and she built the first one that took a year and a half to become profitable because she had to do what you were just talking about. It's not really that complex of the business. It's ads, so PPC.

17:07

It's dropping actual hard mailings in the surrounding neighborhood.

It's dropping actual hard mailings in the surrounding neighborhood.

17:11

It's things like she does like a book set up out front, little,

It's things like she does like a book set up out front, little,

17:15

pop ups for the neighborhood where you can, like, you know, free packing if you ship this day, all that kind of stuff. Those squiggly arm things, you know, that you put outside of a new unit, all that stuff.

pop ups for the neighborhood where you can, like, you know, free packing if you ship this day, all that kind of stuff. Those squiggly arm things, you know, that you put outside of a new unit, all that stuff.

17:26

And then,

And then,

17:28

she, but but the second store I told her to buy And so what she did is went out and bought an already an existing store that had customers and then just upsold them. And that's a much easier way to do it. And so you buy the store for about two to three x profit. Her second store, she got for about one point five x retiring,

she, but but the second store I told her to buy And so what she did is went out and bought an already an existing store that had customers and then just upsold them. And that's a much easier way to do it. And so you buy the store for about two to three x profit. Her second store, she got for about one point five x retiring,

17:47

owner. And then she was able to take that business and sort of double the revenue for that one.

owner. And then she was able to take that business and sort of double the revenue for that one.

17:52

I like this idea. I actually might steal this idea because,

I like this idea. I actually might steal this idea because,

17:55

I just rented out a big warehouse for my wife's,

I just rented out a big warehouse for my wife's,

17:59

business.

business.

17:59

And

And

18:01

one thing we could do is just put a bunch of these mailboxes in, into that space. And,

one thing we could do is just put a bunch of these mailboxes in, into that space. And,

18:07

it just actually offer this as a sort of a simple way to take advantage of a small footprint of real estate. Yeah. I think you have to decide what what type of human you are. Like, if you are the type of human that has a capability

it just actually offer this as a sort of a simple way to take advantage of a small footprint of real estate. Yeah. I think you have to decide what what type of human you are. Like, if you are the type of human that has a capability

18:18

to build up a really big business and that's what you, in fact, want to be a CEO of a puzzle or to be a CEO of an even bigger company, then I think the ROI

to build up a really big business and that's what you, in fact, want to be a CEO of a puzzle or to be a CEO of an even bigger company, then I think the ROI

18:28

on that is potentially more interesting long term. You're not gonna get the same type of multiples with these tiny businesses, but here's the thing. Most people are not like the three of us. And I don't even know if we'd all be in the same category. We're all different in the way we've built things. Most people should not be out there trying to build the next Facebook, and I think it's kinda fucked up. That a lot of people try to tell people that's what they should do. Most people want Maslow's hierarchy of mates. Right? You want your family taken care of. You want food on the table. Wanna be able to do the shit you wanna do on the weekends, and that's it. And so I like the portfolio actually better of a portfolio of small bets. I think of buying businesses a lot like I think about buying stuff.

on that is potentially more interesting long term. You're not gonna get the same type of multiples with these tiny businesses, but here's the thing. Most people are not like the three of us. And I don't even know if we'd all be in the same category. We're all different in the way we've built things. Most people should not be out there trying to build the next Facebook, and I think it's kinda fucked up. That a lot of people try to tell people that's what they should do. Most people want Maslow's hierarchy of mates. Right? You want your family taken care of. You want food on the table. Wanna be able to do the shit you wanna do on the weekends, and that's it. And so I like the portfolio actually better of a portfolio of small bets. I think of buying businesses a lot like I think about buying stuff.

19:05

So how can I get a little portfolio of them with somebody running or operating them so that my risk is diversified?

So how can I get a little portfolio of them with somebody running or operating them so that my risk is diversified?

19:13

And,

And,

19:14

you're right. It takes more time. But if what you're really going for is I wanna make, you know, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand five hundred thousand a million bucks a year, And that that is my goal not to change the world. There's so many better ways to do it than do a startup in my opinion. Yeah. I'm a hundred percent with you on that.

you're right. It takes more time. But if what you're really going for is I wanna make, you know, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand five hundred thousand a million bucks a year, And that that is my goal not to change the world. There's so many better ways to do it than do a startup in my opinion. Yeah. I'm a hundred percent with you on that.

19:31

I think the build versus

I think the build versus

19:33

build versus buy is so slanted towards build because building sounds sexy,

build versus buy is so slanted towards build because building sounds sexy,

19:38

building sounds like virtuous. It's what the media talk about.

building sounds like virtuous. It's what the media talk about.

19:42

And,

And,

19:44

it's really unfortunate because I know a lot of people that would have been really happy with two hundred fifty k a year of profits

it's really unfortunate because I know a lot of people that would have been really happy with two hundred fifty k a year of profits

19:50

and low maintenance, low headache. And,

and low maintenance, low headache. And,

19:53

and, unfortunately, they get sucked into either one of two paths. It's like,

and, unfortunately, they get sucked into either one of two paths. It's like,

19:56

I guess I'll do the startup thing because I wanna be entrepreneur. I wanna be kind of my own boss.

I guess I'll do the startup thing because I wanna be entrepreneur. I wanna be kind of my own boss.

20:01

So then I gotta, like, do this from scratch, find product market fit. Like, damn, that's hard. And the other path was like, oh, that's that sounds really hard. I'm just gonna stick at this job. And,

So then I gotta, like, do this from scratch, find product market fit. Like, damn, that's hard. And the other path was like, oh, that's that sounds really hard. I'm just gonna stick at this job. And,

20:11

and, you know, I'll be an employee for the next, you know, twenty five years. And never really get that freedom because I'm sort of on their schedule. I'm basically renting my time out to this company. And so the the bypass

and, you know, I'll be an employee for the next, you know, twenty five years. And never really get that freedom because I'm sort of on their schedule. I'm basically renting my time out to this company. And so the the bypass

20:21

versus build or join.

versus build or join.

20:23

I think BI gets criminally underrated right now. But I think it's changing. Like, we have Andrew Wilkinson on the podcast a lot. One of the reasons he's so popular is that he says what he does, there's a hell of a lot of people out there who are like, shit. I wanna do that. That sounds fun. That sounds like a easier path than the one I'm on right now. And so I think it's quite appealing Yeah. Same you wanna jump to one of these other ones that sounds interesting to you. We got I see a bunch that I know you'd like, tiny homes, buying distressed assets for two zero dollars, laundromats, which one do you wanna do?

I think BI gets criminally underrated right now. But I think it's changing. Like, we have Andrew Wilkinson on the podcast a lot. One of the reasons he's so popular is that he says what he does, there's a hell of a lot of people out there who are like, shit. I wanna do that. That sounds fun. That sounds like a easier path than the one I'm on right now. And so I think it's quite appealing Yeah. Same you wanna jump to one of these other ones that sounds interesting to you. We got I see a bunch that I know you'd like, tiny homes, buying distressed assets for two zero dollars, laundromats, which one do you wanna do?

20:52

Oh, no.

Oh, no.

20:53

We gotta tell you, Sam. The audio's gone again.

We gotta tell you, Sam. The audio's gone again.

21:00

Okay.

Okay.

21:04

Sam has,

Sam has,

21:05

pieced out the technical difficulties have overcome him he cannot continue on. He is

pieced out the technical difficulties have overcome him he cannot continue on. He is

21:10

he is out of the game. Okay. I'll do one. So I wanna talk about just buying distressed assets for zero dollars. Is this something you've done or Why did you bring this up on the list? Yeah. So this one is one I've done, and actually there's an example of it. I'll give you the actual example. So I have a friend Britney who owns a bunch of gyms.

he is out of the game. Okay. I'll do one. So I wanna talk about just buying distressed assets for zero dollars. Is this something you've done or Why did you bring this up on the list? Yeah. So this one is one I've done, and actually there's an example of it. I'll give you the actual example. So I have a friend Britney who owns a bunch of gyms.

21:27

And not a bunch. She owns two. And they're like, you know, like, the gyms that, a lot of women go to where they have, you know, set classes

And not a bunch. She owns two. And they're like, you know, like, the gyms that, a lot of women go to where they have, you know, set classes

21:35

and, you know, they all get in and work together. It's kinda like women's crossfit, but not with big weights. Anyway, so she owns a couple of those. Like shapes without the franchise, basically. Exactly. Exactly.

and, you know, they all get in and work together. It's kinda like women's crossfit, but not with big weights. Anyway, so she owns a couple of those. Like shapes without the franchise, basically. Exactly. Exactly.

21:45

So, she was telling me that a bunch of her friends, their businesses, Pilates studios,

So, she was telling me that a bunch of her friends, their businesses, Pilates studios,

21:50

bar, whatever, we're going out of business, right, during the pandemic.

bar, whatever, we're going out of business, right, during the pandemic.

21:54

And,

And,

21:55

what was fascinating to me, she was like, so I'm buying some equipment, you know, I feel bad for them. I'm held amount. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. The way we gotta do this is think about those businesses. They're going under and they're worth now zero to the market, but they have value.

what was fascinating to me, she was like, so I'm buying some equipment, you know, I feel bad for them. I'm held amount. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. The way we gotta do this is think about those businesses. They're going under and they're worth now zero to the market, but they have value.

22:10

So, you know, they're not getting anything out of the client roster that they have, all the goodwill that they've built up. So what we decided to do was reach out to some of these gym owners and basically say, hey, you know, I'm really sorry. I know you're going through this terrible time. What if we could help annuitize you a little bit where you could get some revenue off of the the business that you're about to close for zero, and instead,

So, you know, they're not getting anything out of the client roster that they have, all the goodwill that they've built up. So what we decided to do was reach out to some of these gym owners and basically say, hey, you know, I'm really sorry. I know you're going through this terrible time. What if we could help annuitize you a little bit where you could get some revenue off of the the business that you're about to close for zero, and instead,

22:32

we can do a rev share.

we can do a rev share.

22:34

And so I own a business right now. We'll transition over your clients from your business

And so I own a business right now. We'll transition over your clients from your business

22:39

to mine very carefully, very thoughtfully, but give them a new home And then for every client that we bring over from you, I'll pay you out on it for a year, or I'll pay you out on it for six months at x amount and twenty four months at y amount. However, we wanna structure it. But this way, you actually make money while you're closing, your clients have a new house, and we have new clients and we can serve them and we're friends and you like me anyway. And so

to mine very carefully, very thoughtfully, but give them a new home And then for every client that we bring over from you, I'll pay you out on it for a year, or I'll pay you out on it for six months at x amount and twenty four months at y amount. However, we wanna structure it. But this way, you actually make money while you're closing, your clients have a new house, and we have new clients and we can serve them and we're friends and you like me anyway. And so

23:03

This business what, to me, what's fascinating is nobody's doing this that I know of. Like, I if I owned any business, I would be out there right now For every business closing on Yelp, sixty percent of the businesses on Yelp that close temporarily closed per permanently.

This business what, to me, what's fascinating is nobody's doing this that I know of. Like, I if I owned any business, I would be out there right now For every business closing on Yelp, sixty percent of the businesses on Yelp that close temporarily closed per permanently.

23:17

So I would be out there right now going after every one of their client lists. Even they were unrelated

So I would be out there right now going after every one of their client lists. Even they were unrelated

23:22

and doing discounts and coupon codes, giving a rev share to the owner who probably could use it, and taking their client's base. And that's how I would buy distressed I wouldn't spend a dime. I love that. I think that's great. And it's basically picking up the assets and none of the liability. So you're you're not buying the business and then having the rent and then you know, having to bring that business back up, you're basically saying, what is the what is remaining as an asset to this business?

and doing discounts and coupon codes, giving a rev share to the owner who probably could use it, and taking their client's base. And that's how I would buy distressed I wouldn't spend a dime. I love that. I think that's great. And it's basically picking up the assets and none of the liability. So you're you're not buying the business and then having the rent and then you know, having to bring that business back up, you're basically saying, what is the what is remaining as an asset to this business?

23:43

And it's the customer roll rolodex. And I think that's a that's a great one that costs zero out of pocket from day one. It's just profit share, you know, if if a customer does come on over to you. So I think that's a great one. Let's talk about, modular homes or tiny homes. I think you have a couple of ideas on this. So,

And it's the customer roll rolodex. And I think that's a that's a great one that costs zero out of pocket from day one. It's just profit share, you know, if if a customer does come on over to you. So I think that's a great one. Let's talk about, modular homes or tiny homes. I think you have a couple of ideas on this. So,

24:00

do you have one for you? Yeah. We bought a modular home. Which I didn't even know. Did you know there's a difference between manufactured in a modular home? There's also weird terminology?

do you have one for you? Yeah. We bought a modular home. Which I didn't even know. Did you know there's a difference between manufactured in a modular home? There's also weird terminology?

24:09

No. Like, I actually this is what I was gonna asked you was like, I thought a manufactured home is a modular home. No. They're two different things. Yeah. This I guess so manufactured

No. Like, I actually this is what I was gonna asked you was like, I thought a manufactured home is a modular home. No. They're two different things. Yeah. This I guess so manufactured

24:17

home basically means It's what we think about, like, stereotypically. Right? It's a it's a trailer home, basically.

home basically means It's what we think about, like, stereotypically. Right? It's a it's a trailer home, basically.

24:23

All the difference is that there's no foundation set. So you can pick that bad boy up and you can move it. Right? That's manufactured.

All the difference is that there's no foundation set. So you can pick that bad boy up and you can move it. Right? That's manufactured.

24:29

Modular is that it's built in pieces,

Modular is that it's built in pieces,

24:32

which is modular, what that means, but it has a foundation. So at the end of the day, there's really no difference

which is modular, what that means, but it has a foundation. So at the end of the day, there's really no difference

24:38

between a what is called a stick built home, a house that probably you're living in that I live in right now, and this modular home. But the crazy part is

between a what is called a stick built home, a house that probably you're living in that I live in right now, and this modular home. But the crazy part is

24:47

is, well, one, we've all seen these cool modular homes all over the place popping up. But I was surprised. I'm like, they don't really make sense, not at scale.

is, well, one, we've all seen these cool modular homes all over the place popping up. But I was surprised. I'm like, they don't really make sense, not at scale.

24:57

They're not that much cheaper and they're not that much faster when you just drop one on your property.

They're not that much cheaper and they're not that much faster when you just drop one on your property.

25:04

And I did a bunch of research, asked a bunch of people. They're kinda sexy, but they're not that much cheaper.

And I did a bunch of research, asked a bunch of people. They're kinda sexy, but they're not that much cheaper.

25:10

But when they are cheaper is when you do them at scale, and I was I was surprised that there weren't any developments that did this. And so I started scouring the country, found a few, one in Park City,

But when they are cheaper is when you do them at scale, and I was I was surprised that there weren't any developments that did this. And so I started scouring the country, found a few, one in Park City,

25:21

and bought there. And the numbers were amazing, and I bought it, so I know they're real. We bought our house

and bought there. And the numbers were amazing, and I bought it, so I know they're real. We bought our house

25:26

for

for

25:28

nine hundred thousand dollars in Park City

nine hundred thousand dollars in Park City

25:30

and,

and,

25:32

on an acre.

on an acre.

25:33

Three thousand square feet. The average price

Three thousand square feet. The average price

25:37

average or median

average or median

25:38

is, like, two point five million dollars in Park City.

is, like, two point five million dollars in Park City.

25:42

So the cost that they were able to save was so amazing, and they didn't pass it on to the user fully. I think they weren't sure if we all were gonna actually buy into this. But the houses are super sick. Right. And I think that's a model. If I was a developer, I'd be using those all day long, and and I'd probably buy a modular

So the cost that they were able to save was so amazing, and they didn't pass it on to the user fully. I think they weren't sure if we all were gonna actually buy into this. But the houses are super sick. Right. And I think that's a model. If I was a developer, I'd be using those all day long, and and I'd probably buy a modular

26:00

housing company and then use don't you think?

housing company and then use don't you think?

26:05

Right.

Right.

26:06

Yeah. And so when you look at that home today. Can you tell, basically, this is anything but a normal home? Like, is it aesthetically different,

Yeah. And so when you look at that home today. Can you tell, basically, this is anything but a normal home? Like, is it aesthetically different,

26:14

once If you didn't know coming in, when it was No. So I'll drop you the link right now. I'm not gonna say where it is just in case anybody wants to come yell at me about something stupid. I say online.

once If you didn't know coming in, when it was No. So I'll drop you the link right now. I'm not gonna say where it is just in case anybody wants to come yell at me about something stupid. I say online.

26:24

But, I'll drop you the link and you can see the difference. But, no, it's super sweet looking. So it's it's kinda the open concept

But, I'll drop you the link and you can see the difference. But, no, it's super sweet looking. So it's it's kinda the open concept

26:31

big windows, whatever the case may be, and, and you can't tell the difference.

big windows, whatever the case may be, and, and you can't tell the difference.

26:36

The only difference really is that the turnaround time. So we bought this in December of last year or January, February. I don't know. And it'll be done by July.

The only difference really is that the turnaround time. So we bought this in December of last year or January, February. I don't know. And it'll be done by July.

26:47

And so

And so

26:48

it hasn't been built at all. Are you gonna add to it? Like,

it hasn't been built at all. Are you gonna add to it? Like,

26:51

are you gonna add more modules to it?

are you gonna add more modules to it?

26:54

So I'm gonna add a back office,

So I'm gonna add a back office,

26:57

like, module.

like, module.

26:58

And then what we did is we got, like, five or six of our friends to buy in the same community

And then what we did is we got, like, five or six of our friends to buy in the same community

27:04

and they're cool looking. And so I think I'm gonna do some event or something and utilize the four or five of them, and then you could have it as a tax write because it'll essentially be like a little business. Okay. This house is safe. And so the company that's doing the development, they're the company that's doing the development here, they are not the actual

and they're cool looking. And so I think I'm gonna do some event or something and utilize the four or five of them, and then you could have it as a tax write because it'll essentially be like a little business. Okay. This house is safe. And so the company that's doing the development, they're the company that's doing the development here, they are not the actual

27:21

manufacturer. So there's three layers. Right? There's the manufacturing

manufacturer. So there's three layers. Right? There's the manufacturing

27:24

level. Then there's gonna be, probably some delivery layer. And then there's the developer who's doing a development marketing that And then there's, like, kind of the individual home buyer, beyond that. So have you looked at the manufacturers

level. Then there's gonna be, probably some delivery layer. And then there's the developer who's doing a development marketing that And then there's, like, kind of the individual home buyer, beyond that. So have you looked at the manufacturers

27:36

of this? Yeah. So that's where this one's interesting. The the builder and the sure are actually in this deal together.

of this? Yeah. So that's where this one's interesting. The the builder and the sure are actually in this deal together.

27:43

So they do own the modular company, and at least a portion of it. And then the builder is one that's built this in a couple other places. They also have another location that I think is cool and also could work at scale, which is modular tiny hotel

So they do own the modular company, and at least a portion of it. And then the builder is one that's built this in a couple other places. They also have another location that I think is cool and also could work at scale, which is modular tiny hotel

27:58

rills, essentially.

rills, essentially.

27:59

And I believe that's in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

And I believe that's in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

28:02

And the economics are just so fascinating because

And the economics are just so fascinating because

28:05

you know, our modular home will be built in less than six months.

you know, our modular home will be built in less than six months.

28:09

It's about a third of the cost, the square footage,

It's about a third of the cost, the square footage,

28:13

if you break out by square footage, it's about the third of the cost. And then the part that's interesting is in these locations where they're the weather's terrible. You know, and you can't break ground very often,

if you break out by square footage, it's about the third of the cost. And then the part that's interesting is in these locations where they're the weather's terrible. You know, and you can't break ground very often,

28:23

they,

they,

28:23

they build it all in the warehouse. So it's fine. They lay the foundations all in one period of time, and then boom boom boom boom boom boom. Do all throw all the houses up as opposed to everybody else in Park City has to wait, like, you know, two years or something like that. So we'll see, but so far so good. Okay. This is pretty sick. I like this one. I'm gonna jump to more because I wanna see you, what these other ones are all about. So talk to me a little bit about let's do a couple of the controversial thoughts.

they build it all in the warehouse. So it's fine. They lay the foundations all in one period of time, and then boom boom boom boom boom boom. Do all throw all the houses up as opposed to everybody else in Park City has to wait, like, you know, two years or something like that. So we'll see, but so far so good. Okay. This is pretty sick. I like this one. I'm gonna jump to more because I wanna see you, what these other ones are all about. So talk to me a little bit about let's do a couple of the controversial thoughts.

28:47

I'm gonna rip through them pretty quickly and,

I'm gonna rip through them pretty quickly and,

28:50

and so let's let's do the first one. Number one, Angel Investing is largely dumb.

and so let's let's do the first one. Number one, Angel Investing is largely dumb.

28:56

Is that painful? Because we both are angel investors too. And you have a rolling phone? No. I actually I I actually say this. I say this often, and people are like, you have a rolling fund. And I'm like, yeah.

Is that painful? Because we both are angel investors too. And you have a rolling phone? No. I actually I I actually say this. I say this often, and people are like, you have a rolling fund. And I'm like, yeah.

29:06

I don't of of all my investment types that I do. This is, I would say, the worst one, but I think it's still good and fun, and I do it anyways. But I have, like, two or three better ones that I do besides this. Yeah. So I think, you know, one of my, good friend's name is Justin Donald, and we're both pretty obsessed with deal structuring.

I don't of of all my investment types that I do. This is, I would say, the worst one, but I think it's still good and fun, and I do it anyways. But I have, like, two or three better ones that I do besides this. Yeah. So I think, you know, one of my, good friend's name is Justin Donald, and we're both pretty obsessed with deal structuring.

29:23

One of the big biggest things I have a problem with with Angel investing is it's it's too fun. It's like gambling. Right? Like, you get excited about the founders,

One of the big biggest things I have a problem with with Angel investing is it's it's too fun. It's like gambling. Right? Like, you get excited about the founders,

29:32

and guess what? Founders are charismatic. That's how they raise millions of dollars. And so you end up getting sold, and it's not that fault. And then, you know, there's fraud. And, you know, I wrote this whole piece about this one guy that we lost two million dollars with because he just

and guess what? Founders are charismatic. That's how they raise millions of dollars. And so you end up getting sold, and it's not that fault. And then, you know, there's fraud. And, you know, I wrote this whole piece about this one guy that we lost two million dollars with because he just

29:46

but super

but super

29:47

egotistical

egotistical

29:48

and, like, big images of himself on the wall, like, all this stuff later that I got added to my due diligence questionnaire like, how many images of yourself do you have in your office? But,

and, like, big images of himself on the wall, like, all this stuff later that I got added to my due diligence questionnaire like, how many images of yourself do you have in your office? But,

29:57

but but the, the thing with angel investing is, you know this. You need, like, twenty, thirty, forty deals for every one to four that are gonna go through. And so I think that the other thing that we do to service is telling people to invest in Angel early on. Once you've made a few million dollars, and I mean that literally,

but but the, the thing with angel investing is, you know this. You need, like, twenty, thirty, forty deals for every one to four that are gonna go through. And so I think that the other thing that we do to service is telling people to invest in Angel early on. Once you've made a few million dollars, and I mean that literally,

30:14

then I think go into Angel investing. Or if you're on a path where you're making really good money and you've made at least

then I think go into Angel investing. Or if you're on a path where you're making really good money and you've made at least

30:22

half a million a million bucks, then I think you can start Angel investing.

half a million a million bucks, then I think you can start Angel investing.

30:25

But until then, you know, let other people lose money and learn from it. You said it. Like, you were like take a take a you know, DocuSign

But until then, you know, let other people lose money and learn from it. You said it. Like, you were like take a take a you know, DocuSign

30:34

image of every deal you wanna do, write down how you do it, time stamp it so people can see, and then decide later on how good you are at it without burning through a few tens of thousands of dollars.

image of every deal you wanna do, write down how you do it, time stamp it so people can see, and then decide later on how good you are at it without burning through a few tens of thousands of dollars.

30:44

Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So I have a bunch more thoughts there, but I I largely agree with you. And I would say, like, it's one of those Here's my red flag is

Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So I have a bunch more thoughts there, but I I largely agree with you. And I would say, like, it's one of those Here's my red flag is

30:53

in order to talk in order to justify Angel investing, you have to give a blend of reasons. It's like, well, it's really fun.

in order to talk in order to justify Angel investing, you have to give a blend of reasons. It's like, well, it's really fun.

31:00

I like learning about the, you know, the future and the market. And these are all true things, by the way. So it is fun. You do learn a shit ton, so it's like an education.

I like learning about the, you know, the future and the market. And these are all true things, by the way. So it is fun. You do learn a shit ton, so it's like an education.

31:09

You can make great money if it, you know, pans out as you assemble your basket, you know, you should over

You can make great money if it, you know, pans out as you assemble your basket, you know, you should over

31:15

a you know, you should, you know, be netting, you know, a twenty percent plus IRR. It just takes a long time as a liquid.

a you know, you should, you know, be netting, you know, a twenty percent plus IRR. It just takes a long time as a liquid.

31:22

And it's, like, not too much work.

And it's, like, not too much work.

31:24

Because you're largely investing in your network that you've already built for ten years. Like, that's kind of the thing. And so there's, like, this blended reason. Anytime you have a blended reason, it just really means that there's not one really great reason to do something.

Because you're largely investing in your network that you've already built for ten years. Like, that's kind of the thing. And so there's, like, this blended reason. Anytime you have a blended reason, it just really means that there's not one really great reason to do something.

31:36

And so those are always, like, you know, suboptimal choices I find for myself, at least. Whenever I to come up with a blend. And so and I and because I tell everybody this around me, whenever they hear me justifying something with a blended reason, they're like, oh, interesting. So that's

And so those are always, like, you know, suboptimal choices I find for myself, at least. Whenever I to come up with a blend. And so and I and because I tell everybody this around me, whenever they hear me justifying something with a blended reason, they're like, oh, interesting. So that's

31:50

pretty big blanks. And I'm like, oh, yeah. We should just not do it. Never mind. Take it all back. Because I'm giving you this huge

pretty big blanks. And I'm like, oh, yeah. We should just not do it. Never mind. Take it all back. Because I'm giving you this huge

31:57

list. And instead of just saying, we should do this because of x, Right? Like, we should invest in this business because it's growing like like a weed. And, if it wins, it's gonna be this big. That I can get behind. And some angel investors do fall into that. But the act of angel investing as, like, a a job or a hobby

list. And instead of just saying, we should do this because of x, Right? Like, we should invest in this business because it's growing like like a weed. And, if it wins, it's gonna be this big. That I can get behind. And some angel investors do fall into that. But the act of angel investing as, like, a a job or a hobby

32:14

is,

is,

32:16

is, like, it's more like when you describe playing basketball with your friends. Like, oh, it's great. I get to hang on my friends. I get a good running. I get exercise.

is, like, it's more like when you describe playing basketball with your friends. Like, oh, it's great. I get to hang on my friends. I get a good running. I get exercise.

32:23

You know, I'm I I, you know, it's

You know, I'm I I, you know, it's

32:25

get outdoors. It's like you're giving this blend of reason, for doing the the the the really fun thing you just really wanna do, and you're justifying it But the reality is you just wanna do it and your brain comes up with reasons afterwards. Oh, I think that's exactly right. Yeah. The only caveat I have to that is if you can go later stage deals, which now you can do with a lot of the late stage, Angelist

get outdoors. It's like you're giving this blend of reason, for doing the the the the really fun thing you just really wanna do, and you're justifying it But the reality is you just wanna do it and your brain comes up with reasons afterwards. Oh, I think that's exactly right. Yeah. The only caveat I have to that is if you can go later stage deals, which now you can do with a lot of the late stage, Angelist

32:45

syndicates, or if you can structure debt. Like, if you can figure out a way where you start earning interest day one on a startup that has, you know, it's a little bit later stage, and so it has some revenues, or you could, you know, get into a debt deal that's on some of its you know, factoring of the invoices it has. Like, there's, you know, people always think of equity with startups, but lots of startups prefer debt. So do debt with, like, a equity warrant kicker on it, and you can actually make money from day one and then have some equity upside. And that, I think, is interesting. But, you know, throw the Y Combinator term sheet out the window because that it's not gonna be on that.

syndicates, or if you can structure debt. Like, if you can figure out a way where you start earning interest day one on a startup that has, you know, it's a little bit later stage, and so it has some revenues, or you could, you know, get into a debt deal that's on some of its you know, factoring of the invoices it has. Like, there's, you know, people always think of equity with startups, but lots of startups prefer debt. So do debt with, like, a equity warrant kicker on it, and you can actually make money from day one and then have some equity upside. And that, I think, is interesting. But, you know, throw the Y Combinator term sheet out the window because that it's not gonna be on that.

33:24

Right.

Right.

33:25

And all that being said, I'm still gonna Angel vest, because it's because it is fun.

And all that being said, I'm still gonna Angel vest, because it's because it is fun.

33:31

And it's, you know, that's a hobby that makes money. So okay. So let's do another one. Public market. Public market investing also kinda dumb. Talk to me there. Well, this one I like to talk about a lot with big investors

And it's, you know, that's a hobby that makes money. So okay. So let's do another one. Public market. Public market investing also kinda dumb. Talk to me there. Well, this one I like to talk about a lot with big investors

33:40

because

because

33:41

if you look at the Forbes one hundred list, there is not one person on there who made their money from just investing in the stock market. And then this is where people are like, Cody, Warren Buffett, Carl, Carl, Carl icon, and it's like, I remember I was at Goldman in two thousand nine. When do you remember Buffet did the deal, to invest a bunch of money in Goldman to stabilize it.

if you look at the Forbes one hundred list, there is not one person on there who made their money from just investing in the stock market. And then this is where people are like, Cody, Warren Buffett, Carl, Carl, Carl icon, and it's like, I remember I was at Goldman in two thousand nine. When do you remember Buffet did the deal, to invest a bunch of money in Goldman to stabilize it.

34:00

Yeah. Yeah. So,

Yeah. Yeah. So,

34:02

I was there then, and it was not a public market deal. Morton didn't go out to the street and buy a bunch of stock. He had a ton of warrants and options on top of it. It was a total backroom deal. And that's the only reason that he did it because he basically had this huge asymmetric risk, right, where he had a bunch more upside than he had downside. And that's the same thing with icon who tries to affect the outcome. So my point with people, especially these days, with, like, games to stop and all the madness and stock investing is, like, If you don't have an unfair advantage,

I was there then, and it was not a public market deal. Morton didn't go out to the street and buy a bunch of stock. He had a ton of warrants and options on top of it. It was a total backroom deal. And that's the only reason that he did it because he basically had this huge asymmetric risk, right, where he had a bunch more upside than he had downside. And that's the same thing with icon who tries to affect the outcome. So my point with people, especially these days, with, like, games to stop and all the madness and stock investing is, like, If you don't have an unfair advantage,

34:31

if you can't, like, write down why specifically you're gonna win instead of somebody else, you should be really careful speculating on stocks. Because

if you can't, like, write down why specifically you're gonna win instead of somebody else, you should be really careful speculating on stocks. Because

34:40

the big boys don't really do it.

the big boys don't really do it.

34:42

Yeah. I have a cousin who runs a hedge fund,

Yeah. I have a cousin who runs a hedge fund,

34:45

and, When he told me kinda like all the different things that they have at their disposal, I was like, oh, okay. I'm

and, When he told me kinda like all the different things that they have at their disposal, I was like, oh, okay. I'm

34:51

I'm coming into a gun fight with, like, a fingernail.

I'm coming into a gun fight with, like, a fingernail.

34:54

That's kind of, like, how how lopsided it is. And I so, you know, so so that being said, again, I think this is important to say skin in the game here. Do you own any public equities? And,

That's kind of, like, how how lopsided it is. And I so, you know, so so that being said, again, I think this is important to say skin in the game here. Do you own any public equities? And,

35:05

so despite this, do you just do, like, Vanguard? Do you just say, oh, here's ten companies I believe in. I'm gonna do that, or what do you do? Yeah. I don't hold any individual stocks for speculation purposes.

so despite this, do you just do, like, Vanguard? Do you just say, oh, here's ten companies I believe in. I'm gonna do that, or what do you do? Yeah. I don't hold any individual stocks for speculation purposes.

35:16

I invest in indices, and I'm not saying this is right or I'm some guru. I'm just saying I don't think I'm smart enough to beat the market. And so I don't play games where I don't like the rules. I'd I'd rather write my own rules if at all possible. So I go, you know, equity indices, Vanguard, you know, whatever the case may be. I like Vanguard the best.

I invest in indices, and I'm not saying this is right or I'm some guru. I'm just saying I don't think I'm smart enough to beat the market. And so I don't play games where I don't like the rules. I'd I'd rather write my own rules if at all possible. So I go, you know, equity indices, Vanguard, you know, whatever the case may be. I like Vanguard the best.

35:35

And then I go,

And then I go,

35:37

mutual funds on alternatives, private equity, REITs, where you can actually have an unfair advantage.

mutual funds on alternatives, private equity, REITs, where you can actually have an unfair advantage.

35:43

But I don't speculate on any individual stock. Now I don't I mean, would I own Apple, Amazon, Facebook, whatever? Would I make a play on Twitter if I thought that might be fun? Yeah. Maybe.

But I don't speculate on any individual stock. Now I don't I mean, would I own Apple, Amazon, Facebook, whatever? Would I make a play on Twitter if I thought that might be fun? Yeah. Maybe.

35:52

But I think there's so many easier ways to make money with private market investing and buying businesses

But I think there's so many easier ways to make money with private market investing and buying businesses

35:58

as opposed to having to deal with the irrationality of the crowds. Right? I mean,

as opposed to having to deal with the irrationality of the crowds. Right? I mean,

36:03

Do fundamentals

Do fundamentals

36:04

really matter in today's world, or is it whoever has the best IR and doesn't have some crazy thing the CEOs said or done?

really matter in today's world, or is it whoever has the best IR and doesn't have some crazy thing the CEOs said or done?

36:14

Right.

Right.

36:16

Yeah. Exactly. Have you ever heard this term a keynesian beauty contest? No. What is that?

Yeah. Exactly. Have you ever heard this term a keynesian beauty contest? No. What is that?

36:23

So,

So,

36:24

named after, I think, the economist,

named after, I think, the economist,

36:26

canes. Yeah. Basically,

canes. Yeah. Basically,

36:28

the the idea is that this is how the stock market works So a Kansasian beauty contest is where you don't just, as an abnormal beauty contest, you sort of just would assess,

the the idea is that this is how the stock market works So a Kansasian beauty contest is where you don't just, as an abnormal beauty contest, you sort of just would assess,

36:36

let's say the contestant that's that's on the stage, But in this case, the way the stock market works is it's not you assessing the true beauty of the thing. It's

let's say the contestant that's that's on the stage, But in this case, the way the stock market works is it's not you assessing the true beauty of the thing. It's

36:44

you guessing what other people will value it at, who are also guessing what other people will value it at. And so it sort of is this, like, extra

you guessing what other people will value it at, who are also guessing what other people will value it at. And so it sort of is this, like, extra

36:54

you get these, like, really war things happen because

you get these, like, really war things happen because

36:57

everybody is not betting on the thing. They're betting on what the other people will do about the thing. And everybody knows that everybody's betting on what the other people will will value the thing at. And so you get these, like, really crazy,

everybody is not betting on the thing. They're betting on what the other people will do about the thing. And everybody knows that everybody's betting on what the other people will will value the thing at. And so you get these, like, really crazy,

37:08

sort of out of whack things that that aren't, you know, value investing,

sort of out of whack things that that aren't, you know, value investing,

37:11

at its core. No. I totally totally agree.

at its core. No. I totally totally agree.

37:14

Let's do a couple more. So,

Let's do a couple more. So,

37:17

buying real estate at auction, so a way to buy real estate at a discount. Talk to me about this one. I've never done this. Yeah. This one's fascinating. So For instance, let's use Texas. Well, Sam's in Texas, right? But, I like Texas because they do this thing where they actually

buying real estate at auction, so a way to buy real estate at a discount. Talk to me about this one. I've never done this. Yeah. This one's fascinating. So For instance, let's use Texas. Well, Sam's in Texas, right? But, I like Texas because they do this thing where they actually

37:31

sell real estate at auction

sell real estate at auction

37:33

on the courthouse steps of each municipality

on the courthouse steps of each municipality

37:36

or city previous

or city previous

37:38

to it going on Zillow

to it going on Zillow

37:40

or Redfin or whatever the case may be. Like, we've all seen those are these foreclosed

or Redfin or whatever the case may be. Like, we've all seen those are these foreclosed

37:45

are these foreclosed properties that you you get there or what what type of properties you get? Yes. So foreclosed

are these foreclosed properties that you you get there or what what type of properties you get? Yes. So foreclosed

37:51

is really when it's listed on Zillow and Redfin

is really when it's listed on Zillow and Redfin

37:55

And so that's sort of like this post auction step. That's when most of us see foreclosed properties. Right? So you're like, oh, no. I know how to buy foreclosed, I can go on Redfin if it says foreclosed, I can buy it. Well, prior to that, you have auctions,

And so that's sort of like this post auction step. That's when most of us see foreclosed properties. Right? So you're like, oh, no. I know how to buy foreclosed, I can go on Redfin if it says foreclosed, I can buy it. Well, prior to that, you have auctions,

38:09

which actually are the bank auctions of bankrupt properties or foreclosed properties,

which actually are the bank auctions of bankrupt properties or foreclosed properties,

38:14

but you get it before the street does. And then you can even front run that one step further, which is there's a list of properties are going to go into bankruptcy or foreclosure.

but you get it before the street does. And then you can even front run that one step further, which is there's a list of properties are going to go into bankruptcy or foreclosure.

38:24

And then list in Texas, you can look it up right now. It's called Roddie's list, r o d d y s, And on Roddy's list, you buy this list. It's cheap, like, a couple hundred bucks, and you can get the list of all the properties that are about to go foreclosed. And then you can door knock. You can go knock on the door, because

And then list in Texas, you can look it up right now. It's called Roddie's list, r o d d y s, And on Roddy's list, you buy this list. It's cheap, like, a couple hundred bucks, and you can get the list of all the properties that are about to go foreclosed. And then you can door knock. You can go knock on the door, because

38:39

even though it sounds predatory, it's actually not because if you go knock on the door and tell this person, hey, I'll give you

even though it sounds predatory, it's actually not because if you go knock on the door and tell this person, hey, I'll give you

38:46

two hundred thousand dollars for the house that you are in foreclosure because you owe fifty

two hundred thousand dollars for the house that you are in foreclosure because you owe fifty

38:51

that actually gets them out of bank foreclosure

that actually gets them out of bank foreclosure

38:54

and gives them the extra money that the bank,

and gives them the extra money that the bank,

38:58

was going to write off for them.

was going to write off for them.

39:00

So this is mine on the auction shops, and I did it with a friend of mine, Aaron Amuchastegi, who's a stud at it, and,

So this is mine on the auction shops, and I did it with a friend of mine, Aaron Amuchastegi, who's a stud at it, and,

39:06

and it's wild. Millions of dollars of transactions

and it's wild. Millions of dollars of transactions

39:09

in cashier's checks happen same day on the courthouse steps.

in cashier's checks happen same day on the courthouse steps.

39:13

Why can't somebody bring that online? So why is nobody built basically the tech platform that says, great. We go to all the court steps and then we, you know, sort of flash list these things and you can sit at your lap. I can you know, Sean, he's he likes this idea. He loves getting an edge. But he's kinda lazy. And so he doesn't wanna go do all this stuff.

Why can't somebody bring that online? So why is nobody built basically the tech platform that says, great. We go to all the court steps and then we, you know, sort of flash list these things and you can sit at your lap. I can you know, Sean, he's he likes this idea. He loves getting an edge. But he's kinda lazy. And so he doesn't wanna go do all this stuff.

39:32

Why doesn't somebody bring that online? Maybe. Like, Rati's list, I guess, as an example of that, bringing that part online,

Why doesn't somebody bring that online? Maybe. Like, Rati's list, I guess, as an example of that, bringing that part online,

39:38

What about after that? Well, I think you could there's couple things that you need to do in real life. Like, you have to validate that the house exists.

What about after that? Well, I think you could there's couple things that you need to do in real life. Like, you have to validate that the house exists.

39:45

Right?

Right?

39:46

And the the couple keys to the actual auction game are that there's some part that is just you gotta walk the walk. So

And the the couple keys to the actual auction game are that there's some part that is just you gotta walk the walk. So

39:55

You could go and buy a house at foreclosure and look at it on Google and apps, but Google and apps is an updated same day. So that house actually might have burned down last week. Or a month ago, and I know somebody that that's happened to. Or the house, if you look at it on Google Maps, you may not be able to tell that the inside of the house, or, you know, the back end of the house is totally blown out. So you gotta kinda go walk the properties a little bit. There's one part of it. Right. And then the other part is it's about debt and who owns the debt. And, like, one thing I've realized about wealth over time is,

You could go and buy a house at foreclosure and look at it on Google and apps, but Google and apps is an updated same day. So that house actually might have burned down last week. Or a month ago, and I know somebody that that's happened to. Or the house, if you look at it on Google Maps, you may not be able to tell that the inside of the house, or, you know, the back end of the house is totally blown out. So you gotta kinda go walk the properties a little bit. There's one part of it. Right. And then the other part is it's about debt and who owns the debt. And, like, one thing I've realized about wealth over time is,

40:27

debt is just about everything. You should always look for, even before you do a startup is there any debt on the company? Am I in a first lien? Does that, you know, do I have first access to money if this company gets it in some way? And it's the same with the house So a lot of these times, they'll have a lean on the property that's like, this is weird.

debt is just about everything. You should always look for, even before you do a startup is there any debt on the company? Am I in a first lien? Does that, you know, do I have first access to money if this company gets it in some way? And it's the same with the house So a lot of these times, they'll have a lean on the property that's like, this is weird.

40:46

This is actually would be an interesting business for you guys to look at. Like, one of the biggest predators

This is actually would be an interesting business for you guys to look at. Like, one of the biggest predators

40:51

on,

on,

40:52

low income home,

low income home,

40:54

owners is, you know, those faucets, like, the little water purification faucets?

owners is, you know, those faucets, like, the little water purification faucets?

40:58

That you have in, like, your house?

That you have in, like, your house?

41:00

Yep. So,

Yep. So,

41:02

oftentimes,

oftentimes,

41:03

those are put in houses by people that come door to door and try to sell them to people. And and they use it by doing a lien or applying debt to that person's mortgage.

those are put in houses by people that come door to door and try to sell them to people. And and they use it by doing a lien or applying debt to that person's mortgage.

41:13

And so you could literally have a lien before you for, fifteen hundred dollars that hasn't been paid. So it's now worth like twenty five thousand dollars because the interest is ten or twelve percent, and you don't even realize it. So you do have to

And so you could literally have a lien before you for, fifteen hundred dollars that hasn't been paid. So it's now worth like twenty five thousand dollars because the interest is ten or twelve percent, and you don't even realize it. So you do have to

41:27

yeah. So you do have to go actually figure out who owns the debt on the house, and you do again, through a list like Roddie's list that will tell you who owns the title to the house. But none of these are big problems. If somebody can list houses on Zillow, like Zillow now's eyes sight unseen, you could just have APIs in from Roddie's list from the local County

yeah. So you do have to go actually figure out who owns the debt on the house, and you do again, through a list like Roddie's list that will tell you who owns the title to the house. But none of these are big problems. If somebody can list houses on Zillow, like Zillow now's eyes sight unseen, you could just have APIs in from Roddie's list from the local County

41:47

location. You could probably have updated Google Maps locations

location. You could probably have updated Google Maps locations

41:50

and all three of those things triangulate to go online, I would imagine.

and all three of those things triangulate to go online, I would imagine.

41:54

I like it.

I like it.

41:56

And, Rottie's list is only Texas or that's Only Texas, but there's tons of them. So usually you have to go to the county registrar

And, Rottie's list is only Texas or that's Only Texas, but there's tons of them. So usually you have to go to the county registrar

42:04

and they'll list how often they do rep how often do they do auctions. So on Texas, it's every Tuesday.

and they'll list how often they do rep how often do they do auctions. So on Texas, it's every Tuesday.

42:10

In California, it depends by city and county, but

In California, it depends by city and county, but

42:14

One of the interesting things is, like, the biggest buyers of homes in California, for instance,

One of the interesting things is, like, the biggest buyers of homes in California, for instance,

42:20

in in this downturn in my opinion is going to be the government because they've essentially made it where

in in this downturn in my opinion is going to be the government because they've essentially made it where

42:26

if this is not your primary residence,

if this is not your primary residence,

42:29

you cannot buy these foreclosed

you cannot buy these foreclosed

42:31

homes at auction, which is a crazy change, but in two thousand eight, that's what happened. All the PE firms went to all of these little municipalities in pooped up all these houses and government pennies on the dollar.

homes at auction, which is a crazy change, but in two thousand eight, that's what happened. All the PE firms went to all of these little municipalities in pooped up all these houses and government pennies on the dollar.

42:42

The only thing that is true about this is you need cash. You gotta pay cash. So these are know, you're coming with a hundred thousand dollars in cashier's checks to buy this house and and auction and buy it at auction.

The only thing that is true about this is you need cash. You gotta pay cash. So these are know, you're coming with a hundred thousand dollars in cashier's checks to buy this house and and auction and buy it at auction.

42:54

Right.

Right.

42:55

Yeah. One and no paddles. I gotta just attend one of these to to see how it feels. Yeah. You do.

Yeah. One and no paddles. I gotta just attend one of these to to see how it feels. Yeah. You do.

43:01

Okay. We'll we'll end on these last two.

Okay. We'll we'll end on these last two.

43:04

You wrote, how to collect cool people. I don't know what collect means in this case, but is that a typo, or did you really mean how to collect cool people? I did mean that. Well, actually, I wish I was here because he would laugh at this one. But,

You wrote, how to collect cool people. I don't know what collect means in this case, but is that a typo, or did you really mean how to collect cool people? I did mean that. Well, actually, I wish I was here because he would laugh at this one. But,

43:15

so one of the things that I think is important for investors or VCs or anybody

so one of the things that I think is important for investors or VCs or anybody

43:20

I guess, really, who wants to be in a startup game is, like, how do you make a connection with a human? Like you. Right? So, you know, we get to know each other on Twitter. I kinda retweet you a few times. But before the

I guess, really, who wants to be in a startup game is, like, how do you make a connection with a human? Like you. Right? So, you know, we get to know each other on Twitter. I kinda retweet you a few times. But before the

43:32

social media game was there,

social media game was there,

43:34

what how I actually met Sam originally

what how I actually met Sam originally

43:37

I liked one of his articles that he wrote in the hustle years ago.

I liked one of his articles that he wrote in the hustle years ago.

43:41

And,

And,

43:42

and I just did some research on Sam and was like, you know, I just think he's gonna gonna do some stuff. I don't know what. The hustle was small at the time.

and I just did some research on Sam and was like, you know, I just think he's gonna gonna do some stuff. I don't know what. The hustle was small at the time.

43:49

But I I think I wanna know him and I want him in my rolodex in some way so I could bother him about things.

But I I think I wanna know him and I want him in my rolodex in some way so I could bother him about things.

43:54

And,

And,

43:55

and so I found out what his favorite candy was, which is butterfingers. I don't know if it still is now. And so I shipped him this ludicrous sized box of butterfingers. Right? Like, a shit ton of butter figures to the point where, like, he didn't have a lot of choices, except to, like, call me back and say, like, you know, what? Thanks.

and so I found out what his favorite candy was, which is butterfingers. I don't know if it still is now. And so I shipped him this ludicrous sized box of butterfingers. Right? Like, a shit ton of butter figures to the point where, like, he didn't have a lot of choices, except to, like, call me back and say, like, you know, what? Thanks.

44:13

And you know Sam really well. I mean, he's not always like Thanks and what the fuck. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

And you know Sam really well. I mean, he's not always like Thanks and what the fuck. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

44:18

And so, anyway, so and then I did that with another good friend of both Lars Noah Kagan, except it was something about tacos at the time because that's his little shtick,

And so, anyway, so and then I did that with another good friend of both Lars Noah Kagan, except it was something about tacos at the time because that's his little shtick,

44:27

and I sent him a a shirt. And so the whole point here, I guess, was kinda like, people these days will say, I'm sure they say it to you, well, but Sean, you have this huge network. Of course, you could raise a fund this way. Or, you know, Sam, of course, you could do this. You have this giant rolodex of emails. You know, I didn't have any of that at the time. I was in finance. We couldn't even have social media. And I think those are all uses, and instead you should just get kind of obsessed with the people that you think are interesting,

and I sent him a a shirt. And so the whole point here, I guess, was kinda like, people these days will say, I'm sure they say it to you, well, but Sean, you have this huge network. Of course, you could raise a fund this way. Or, you know, Sam, of course, you could do this. You have this giant rolodex of emails. You know, I didn't have any of that at the time. I was in finance. We couldn't even have social media. And I think those are all uses, and instead you should just get kind of obsessed with the people that you think are interesting,

44:52

find ways to connect with them, and you can even do it in an old school manner, which might work more today than ever because DMs and social media are inundated.

find ways to connect with them, and you can even do it in an old school manner, which might work more today than ever because DMs and social media are inundated.

45:01

And, what's your, what's your next move? So if the butterfingers and the tacos or the pickup line,

And, what's your, what's your next move? So if the butterfingers and the tacos or the pickup line,

45:06

And that's great. Because I and and this happens to me. And I I always feel like, well, you did break through the door. Like, I I see you, and I hear you, and I kinda check you out. And I'm like, okay. Cool.

And that's great. Because I and and this happens to me. And I I always feel like, well, you did break through the door. Like, I I see you, and I hear you, and I kinda check you out. And I'm like, okay. Cool.

45:18

But honestly, like, most of the time when that happens, I don't, like, become buddies with them. And I think that's what they want is, like, I sent you that shirt. Like, I sent you that thing because you you said you like this. And that so I sent it to you. I'm like, yes. I did appreciate it, but, like, I didn't necessarily go start like a bromance with you after that. So,

But honestly, like, most of the time when that happens, I don't, like, become buddies with them. And I think that's what they want is, like, I sent you that shirt. Like, I sent you that thing because you you said you like this. And that so I sent it to you. I'm like, yes. I did appreciate it, but, like, I didn't necessarily go start like a bromance with you after that. So,

45:35

what is what do you do? Let's say with your follow through out? What is doing those cases to, like,

what is what do you do? Let's say with your follow through out? What is doing those cases to, like,

45:39

turned that little, like, you know, funny just sort of like, hey.

turned that little, like, you know, funny just sort of like, hey.

45:43

Love what you do. I'm a fan. Here's a bunch of butterfingers.

Love what you do. I'm a fan. Here's a bunch of butterfingers.

45:47

What did you do to turn that into more of like a peer relationship after that? Or what what would you do? Yeah. Well, I think a couple things. One, you gotta be doing cool stuff to hang around cool people. Rule number one. Right? Right. So, like The prerequisite.

What did you do to turn that into more of like a peer relationship after that? Or what what would you do? Yeah. Well, I think a couple things. One, you gotta be doing cool stuff to hang around cool people. Rule number one. Right? Right. So, like The prerequisite.

45:58

Exactly. Yeah. So, like, you know, I don't care if I was backing up a dumpster truck. Actually, that would be I would probably be doing cool things if I did that. For for Sean. But,

Exactly. Yeah. So, like, you know, I don't care if I was backing up a dumpster truck. Actually, that would be I would probably be doing cool things if I did that. For for Sean. But,

46:08

but, you know, you have to actually be out there creating the thing to be around creators. So I think that's rule number one. And it's to have the lowest expectations

but, you know, you have to actually be out there creating the thing to be around creators. So I think that's rule number one. And it's to have the lowest expectations

46:17

humanly possible. Right? Like, I don't want anything from Sean. I didn't want anything from Noah. I just wanted them in my circle and then to ping them sporadically with random stuff. So I think I got Noah, like, one of them his investments that he did, I pinged him

humanly possible. Right? Like, I don't want anything from Sean. I didn't want anything from Noah. I just wanted them in my circle and then to ping them sporadically with random stuff. So I think I got Noah, like, one of them his investments that he did, I pinged him

46:31

on it. Like, he actually had a question about something else. I put it on Twitter or something, and then I sort of responded and said, oh, I knew that person. So it was trying to serve them a bunch of different times.

on it. Like, he actually had a question about something else. I put it on Twitter or something, and then I sort of responded and said, oh, I knew that person. So it was trying to serve them a bunch of different times.

46:42

And then after doing that continuously, which is very similar to what I do with founders when I wanna invest in them, they'll eventually be like, Cody just she kinda solves problems for me, or she does interesting things and makes my life easier in some way. And doing it without being too you don't wanna be a creep, you know, I think I do think when I first,

And then after doing that continuously, which is very similar to what I do with founders when I wanna invest in them, they'll eventually be like, Cody just she kinda solves problems for me, or she does interesting things and makes my life easier in some way. And doing it without being too you don't wanna be a creep, you know, I think I do think when I first,

47:00

engaged with Noah, and I can say this now because we're buds, but I think he was like, is she hitting on me? Like, what's happening? Here. You know, does she like me? And I was like, no, dude. I'm married. Sorry.

engaged with Noah, and I can say this now because we're buds, but I think he was like, is she hitting on me? Like, what's happening? Here. You know, does she like me? And I was like, no, dude. I'm married. Sorry.

47:10

So, you know, but also just having no shame. Like, I don't have an ego. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I think that's important. What what do you think? What would work for you? Would that work for you?

So, you know, but also just having no shame. Like, I don't have an ego. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I think that's important. What what do you think? What would work for you? Would that work for you?

47:20

Yeah. That that that so so the thing you said that that works for me is

Yeah. That that that so so the thing you said that that works for me is

47:24

first and foremost, the ultimate networking hack is be interesting. Okay. That sounds easy. What that sounds like okay. I can't do anything with that. Well, no. You actually can, which What is interesting to other people? Is somebody who either knows stuff in an area that other people wanna know that that thing? So if you're an expert of in a certain area, cannabis,

first and foremost, the ultimate networking hack is be interesting. Okay. That sounds easy. What that sounds like okay. I can't do anything with that. Well, no. You actually can, which What is interesting to other people? Is somebody who either knows stuff in an area that other people wanna know that that thing? So if you're an expert of in a certain area, cannabis,

47:43

defy, just be knee deep in it. And, you don't have to be like a power player. Just the knowledge is actually quite useful,

defy, just be knee deep in it. And, you don't have to be like a power player. Just the knowledge is actually quite useful,

47:50

the knowledge network or be doing interesting things. So if I see you out there actually making shit happen in your field and it doesn't have to be a big, you know, so you don't have to be doing SpaceX, like, gotta be doing something. So what what doesn't work is the opposite?

the knowledge network or be doing interesting things. So if I see you out there actually making shit happen in your field and it doesn't have to be a big, you know, so you don't have to be doing SpaceX, like, gotta be doing something. So what what doesn't work is the opposite?

48:04

You reach out. You ask me for something. You ask me for my most valuable thing, time.

You reach out. You ask me for something. You ask me for my most valuable thing, time.

48:10

Without offering me any reason why I should give you that time.

Without offering me any reason why I should give you that time.

48:14

And maybe I will anyways, because I'm just in the mood, but, like, you didn't help yourself by, like, said, making it easy for me.

And maybe I will anyways, because I'm just in the mood, but, like, you didn't help yourself by, like, said, making it easy for me.

48:20

And lastly,

And lastly,

48:21

you're basically saying, hey, I'm kinda doing nothing. And I think if you talk to me, then I'll start to, like, do something or I'll know what to do. Yeah. And, And that's not fun. Like, you know, so what what do I like? I like people who are doing interesting things.

you're basically saying, hey, I'm kinda doing nothing. And I think if you talk to me, then I'll start to, like, do something or I'll know what to do. Yeah. And, And that's not fun. Like, you know, so what what do I like? I like people who are doing interesting things.

48:34

And then, they reach out or I reach out either way. It doesn't matter. And in doing so, they are, like you said, a non needy person. So they're happy to give, they're happy to chat,

And then, they reach out or I reach out either way. It doesn't matter. And in doing so, they are, like you said, a non needy person. So they're happy to give, they're happy to chat,

48:45

and they have low expectations.

and they have low expectations.

48:47

One of the weird things is when people start with, like, hey, big fan of what you do. I know you get a ton of messages, but,

One of the weird things is when people start with, like, hey, big fan of what you do. I know you get a ton of messages, but,

48:54

just wanna put this on your radar.

just wanna put this on your radar.

48:56

Cool. Great first message. Second message comes in, like, nineteen hours later.

Cool. Great first message. Second message comes in, like, nineteen hours later.

49:00

I guess you just don't even care.

I guess you just don't even care.

49:03

You know,

You know,

49:04

What's the point of of this anyways? You know, like,

What's the point of of this anyways? You know, like,

49:08

I really thought you were a good guy, but now I know the truth. It's like, whoa, whoa, what's going on? Like, you sort of pull the one eighty and now you're really needy and desperate for some kind of response. And now you expect things of me that I never ever offered to you. So so I would say, like, you know, just do the opposite of those bad things. So be interesting.

I really thought you were a good guy, but now I know the truth. It's like, whoa, whoa, what's going on? Like, you sort of pull the one eighty and now you're really needy and desperate for some kind of response. And now you expect things of me that I never ever offered to you. So so I would say, like, you know, just do the opposite of those bad things. So be interesting.

49:24

Don't expect anything in return, just give and give little bits. Don't even give too much because giving too much, it actually creates an obligation also. So just keep it really simple. Share interesting things with the person. Share life updates if you're doing cool stuff.

Don't expect anything in return, just give and give little bits. Don't even give too much because giving too much, it actually creates an obligation also. So just keep it really simple. Share interesting things with the person. Share life updates if you're doing cool stuff.

49:37

And be useful. Hey, if they're trying a project, give them some feedback, help them out, reach share spread the word, tell a friend, whatever. And, let them know that you're kind of, you know, in the corner. That's all that it takes really to, like, break through with most people. And then from there,

And be useful. Hey, if they're trying a project, give them some feedback, help them out, reach share spread the word, tell a friend, whatever. And, let them know that you're kind of, you know, in the corner. That's all that it takes really to, like, break through with most people. And then from there,

49:53

You know, it's either gonna work or it's not, and, you know, that that's fine. Not everybody's meant to be friends with everybody, and that's okay. Yeah. And don't ask to be,

You know, it's either gonna work or it's not, and, you know, that that's fine. Not everybody's meant to be friends with everybody, and that's okay. Yeah. And don't ask to be,

50:02

mentored by anybody. That's my biggest pet peeve. I'm like, I can barely mentor myself. You don't want me mentoring you. What are you talking about? Not to mention. Talking about an obligation. It's like, wait, have you looked up the definition? That means that I am supposed to lead you, like, on your path of purpose. You don't even know each other, man. Right. So, yeah, I totally agree.

mentored by anybody. That's my biggest pet peeve. I'm like, I can barely mentor myself. You don't want me mentoring you. What are you talking about? Not to mention. Talking about an obligation. It's like, wait, have you looked up the definition? That means that I am supposed to lead you, like, on your path of purpose. You don't even know each other, man. Right. So, yeah, I totally agree.

50:21

Yeah. And somebody said this, and I thought it was totally spot on.

Yeah. And somebody said this, and I thought it was totally spot on.

50:25

They said, you know, the easiest way if you really do want a mentor,

They said, you know, the easiest way if you really do want a mentor,

50:28

first, first things first acknowledge that seeking a mentor is a advanced form of procrastination.

first, first things first acknowledge that seeking a mentor is a advanced form of procrastination.

50:34

You think that you need a mentor before you do the thing. And in reality, your mentor and all other people who succeed don't use mentors as a prerequisite. Yeah. They find people along the way that help, but that's because they're just in furious motion and people turn and look who's splashing in this pool. And, sometimes they go and they lend a hand, and, you know, when you need it. But, they didn't sit around, say, well, if I get that mentor, then I'm gonna do the things. So that's the first thing. It's a it's an advanced form of procrastination.

You think that you need a mentor before you do the thing. And in reality, your mentor and all other people who succeed don't use mentors as a prerequisite. Yeah. They find people along the way that help, but that's because they're just in furious motion and people turn and look who's splashing in this pool. And, sometimes they go and they lend a hand, and, you know, when you need it. But, they didn't sit around, say, well, if I get that mentor, then I'm gonna do the things. So that's the first thing. It's a it's an advanced form of procrastination.

51:01

And secondly, the way you actually do form a mentorship bond is you ask somebody for a specific

And secondly, the way you actually do form a mentorship bond is you ask somebody for a specific

51:07

situational piece of advice. So not just what should I do, but, like, hey, I'm debating between these two options. How would you think about this or here's how I'm thinking about it? Would you poke holes in that? And then

situational piece of advice. So not just what should I do, but, like, hey, I'm debating between these two options. How would you think about this or here's how I'm thinking about it? Would you poke holes in that? And then

51:18

then you follow-up, which is where ninety five percent of people fall fall off the cliff, they get advice, and then they don't follow-up with, hey, I listened to what you did, or I did a variation of what you did, and here's what happened.

then you follow-up, which is where ninety five percent of people fall fall off the cliff, they get advice, and then they don't follow-up with, hey, I listened to what you did, or I did a variation of what you did, and here's what happened.

51:29

People actually love hearing that update. It's their they are gathering data points of, like, what works, what doesn't. And it just feels good that, like, you've closed the loop. You get some closure on that, that conversation.

People actually love hearing that update. It's their they are gathering data points of, like, what works, what doesn't. And it just feels good that, like, you've closed the loop. You get some closure on that, that conversation.

51:39

And then you just say, And now here's the next thing. Like, that's that's going on. And, you know, some people will drop off because they don't wanna deal with you, and some people will give again. And then you do that the third time, you say, hey. Here's what happened.

And then you just say, And now here's the next thing. Like, that's that's going on. And, you know, some people will drop off because they don't wanna deal with you, and some people will give again. And then you do that the third time, you say, hey. Here's what happened.

51:50

And now

And now

51:51

this unexpected thing is going on. And here's how I'm dealing with that. And by the third one, you guys will know either This works.

this unexpected thing is going on. And here's how I'm dealing with that. And by the third one, you guys will know either This works.

51:59

We have good rapport. We see the world in similar ways. I compliment each other. They kinda like my spunk, and I like their experience. And, like, it meshes, and we should do this.

We have good rapport. We see the world in similar ways. I compliment each other. They kinda like my spunk, and I like their experience. And, like, it meshes, and we should do this.

52:08

Or you'll know by then that, you know, this is not the right fit. And so how do that's how you organically

Or you'll know by then that, you know, this is not the right fit. And so how do that's how you organically

52:14

ease into having a mentor

ease into having a mentor

52:16

rather than trying to put a label with a stranger and asking them to commit to something that they, you know, don't really necessarily wanna do with you. Yeah. You nailed it. I also think this is like probably not very PC, but I think it all becomes easier once you've achieved, like, a little bit of financial freedom. Like, I think the less you're focused on making money every day and, like, you know, being in that

rather than trying to put a label with a stranger and asking them to commit to something that they, you know, don't really necessarily wanna do with you. Yeah. You nailed it. I also think this is like probably not very PC, but I think it all becomes easier once you've achieved, like, a little bit of financial freedom. Like, I think the less you're focused on making money every day and, like, you know, being in that

52:38

sort of employee lane and you can do interesting things with your money, that opens up a ton of opportunities. So I'm I'm pretty big on, like, it's hard to be ideologically free. It's hard to be

sort of employee lane and you can do interesting things with your money, that opens up a ton of opportunities. So I'm I'm pretty big on, like, it's hard to be ideologically free. It's hard to be

52:50

time free. It's hard to really have any freedom if you don't have financial freedom. And, like, that all means something different to us. Like, You and I might think that that means

time free. It's hard to really have any freedom if you don't have financial freedom. And, like, that all means something different to us. Like, You and I might think that that means

52:58

x big dollar amount, whereas some people might be like, no, it's just enough to cover, you know, the money that I need to pay today, but that's, like, one thing I wish more people could think about is, like, how do you how do you really get financial freedom so that you can do all the stuff you wanna do?

x big dollar amount, whereas some people might be like, no, it's just enough to cover, you know, the money that I need to pay today, but that's, like, one thing I wish more people could think about is, like, how do you how do you really get financial freedom so that you can do all the stuff you wanna do?

53:13

And then, you know, how do you get critical thinking freedom where you can actually learn to ask the right questions?

And then, you know, how do you get critical thinking freedom where you can actually learn to ask the right questions?

53:18

Here's the bit of inside I've had,

Here's the bit of inside I've had,

53:22

the realization I've had recently

the realization I've had recently

53:24

because I worked for, like, a decade being, like, financial freedom is what I want.

because I worked for, like, a decade being, like, financial freedom is what I want.

53:28

And even more so, I was like, okay. I wanna buy a house so that, you know, I wanna I wanna have enough where I can get my mom a place because she'll have a better life if, you know, if we could do that and blah blah blah.

And even more so, I was like, okay. I wanna buy a house so that, you know, I wanna I wanna have enough where I can get my mom a place because she'll have a better life if, you know, if we could do that and blah blah blah.

53:37

And,

And,

53:38

so I also thought financial freedom. That's the best kind of, like, that's my goal right now.

so I also thought financial freedom. That's the best kind of, like, that's my goal right now.

53:43

I think a lot of people are like that. And,

I think a lot of people are like that. And,

53:46

And now, that I kind of achieved a lot of those goals, I was like, okay.

And now, that I kind of achieved a lot of those goals, I was like, okay.

53:52

Definitely, my goals just got big, kinda bigger. And, you know, it's not like I and and it's true. I definitely do, like, carry myself a little bit differently and choose projects and people differently because I'm not, like, I'm not in I I don't need you for the money, but,

Definitely, my goals just got big, kinda bigger. And, you know, it's not like I and and it's true. I definitely do, like, carry myself a little bit differently and choose projects and people differently because I'm not, like, I'm not in I I don't need you for the money, but,

54:04

yeah, so I need to do this for the money. I could do many things, and money should probably come along with all of them, and I don't I don't need near term money necessarily. Yep. So so there definitely has been some benefits. Here's the realization.

yeah, so I need to do this for the money. I could do many things, and money should probably come along with all of them, and I don't I don't need near term money necessarily. Yep. So so there definitely has been some benefits. Here's the realization.

54:16

I used to think about financial freedom, like,

I used to think about financial freedom, like,

54:19

if I get x dollars, then for me and my lifestyle, that's I'm financially free. And then

if I get x dollars, then for me and my lifestyle, that's I'm financially free. And then

54:24

for another person, they might have a different dollar amount, which I think is kind of what you're saying. And I thought that, you know, as recently as, like, a month ago.

for another person, they might have a different dollar amount, which I think is kind of what you're saying. And I thought that, you know, as recently as, like, a month ago.

54:31

And then I met,

And then I met,

54:33

a bunch of people who, have a way smaller dollar amount, but what they have actually also is way fewer demands and desires about what they want out of their life.

a bunch of people who, have a way smaller dollar amount, but what they have actually also is way fewer demands and desires about what they want out of their life.

54:43

You know, in a good way, like, they're happy as is. So they don't feel like, well, I need x, then I'm gonna be, like, happier.

You know, in a good way, like, they're happy as is. So they don't feel like, well, I need x, then I'm gonna be, like, happier.

54:49

Like, I'm super happy right now.

Like, I'm super happy right now.

54:52

And, like, great. If I have more money, like, I'll have other things, but I'm not gonna have more happiness.

And, like, great. If I have more money, like, I'll have other things, but I'm not gonna have more happiness.

54:57

And so,

And so,

54:58

and so what I realized was that financial freedom is actually just it's it's an internal question. It is not about a dollar amount. Financial Freedom is when you stop deciding

and so what I realized was that financial freedom is actually just it's it's an internal question. It is not about a dollar amount. Financial Freedom is when you stop deciding

55:07

what to do based on money.

what to do based on money.

55:09

That's when you have achieved financial freedom. And for some people, it takes getting a large amount of money so that they can do that stop. For other people, it's wanting less shit, and then they can stop because they have less demands for money. They're they're their total numbers lower. And for other people, it's, more like, you know, sort of Buddhist or monk like where they just sort of realize

That's when you have achieved financial freedom. And for some people, it takes getting a large amount of money so that they can do that stop. For other people, it's wanting less shit, and then they can stop because they have less demands for money. They're they're their total numbers lower. And for other people, it's, more like, you know, sort of Buddhist or monk like where they just sort of realize

55:27

that it's actually, an an internal attachments that they have to let go of And then they are now free.

that it's actually, an an internal attachments that they have to let go of And then they are now free.

55:33

The freedom is is,

The freedom is is,

55:36

freedom from your own desire to

freedom from your own desire to

55:39

have more money and therefore you choose things based on money,

have more money and therefore you choose things based on money,

55:42

rather than the kind of mathematical definition, which is, well, you like, like, there is also, like, a sort of technical definition, which is

rather than the kind of mathematical definition, which is, well, you like, like, there is also, like, a sort of technical definition, which is

55:49

you have enough money where even if you earn zero income, your investments will pay your lifestyle,

you have enough money where even if you earn zero income, your investments will pay your lifestyle,

55:55

you know, and you won't be sort of dip you know, you're not dipping into savings. Your savings are are increasing at a rate faster than your life burn. And there is that technical definition. But I realized I know many people who pass that technical definition and still aren't financially free. And it's because internally, they have not actually freed themselves from what they need,

you know, and you won't be sort of dip you know, you're not dipping into savings. Your savings are are increasing at a rate faster than your life burn. And there is that technical definition. But I realized I know many people who pass that technical definition and still aren't financially free. And it's because internally, they have not actually freed themselves from what they need,

56:13

from this idea of, like, well, I gotta do, like, putting money first as the choice, as the choice of what to do, whether it's people who penny pinch or as people who choose projects based on a financial return as the, like, kind of core criteria.

from this idea of, like, well, I gotta do, like, putting money first as the choice, as the choice of what to do, whether it's people who penny pinch or as people who choose projects based on a financial return as the, like, kind of core criteria.

56:27

Yeah. Anyways, that's the sort of I like that very much. No. I think it makes a lot of sense. I think, you know, above a certain level. Like, I get a little obsessed just with everything that's going on economically in the world with people who

Yeah. Anyways, that's the sort of I like that very much. No. I think it makes a lot of sense. I think, you know, above a certain level. Like, I get a little obsessed just with everything that's going on economically in the world with people who

56:39

again, like, aren't maybe where you and I are. Like, I I will think financial freedom might have something to do with your skill stack. Like, even if you lost all of your money today, or if I lost all of my money today, as long as I have put as much relationship deposit as I think I have of other humans that are doing interesting things in the world, You and I are never gonna be homeless, like, pending catastrophic

again, like, aren't maybe where you and I are. Like, I I will think financial freedom might have something to do with your skill stack. Like, even if you lost all of your money today, or if I lost all of my money today, as long as I have put as much relationship deposit as I think I have of other humans that are doing interesting things in the world, You and I are never gonna be homeless, like, pending catastrophic

57:00

issue. Right? Because you can go to some of your friends and be like, hey, I'm actually pretty good at copywriting. Don't you see, look at my Twitter account? Hey, I'm actually pretty good at building these businesses. I've sold a couple of them. So once you, like, get that skill stack, you're like, I'm fairly confident Worst case scenario, I can go call up somebody and work for them.

issue. Right? Because you can go to some of your friends and be like, hey, I'm actually pretty good at copywriting. Don't you see, look at my Twitter account? Hey, I'm actually pretty good at building these businesses. I've sold a couple of them. So once you, like, get that skill stack, you're like, I'm fairly confident Worst case scenario, I can go call up somebody and work for them.

57:17

So I think there's some mixture of the dollar not in your bank, what you need to pay, not having a ton of debt, And then are you competent enough as a human where

So I think there's some mixture of the dollar not in your bank, what you need to pay, not having a ton of debt, And then are you competent enough as a human where

57:26

somebody will always need your services?

somebody will always need your services?

57:28

And and you know, and I think that paired with, like, can you reason and think for yourself as a pretty powerful combo?

And and you know, and I think that paired with, like, can you reason and think for yourself as a pretty powerful combo?

57:34

Yeah. To totally agree. I think that's great. So give us we should wrap up. We give us where where can people subscribe to the newsletter because it's actually really damn good.

Yeah. To totally agree. I think that's great. So give us we should wrap up. We give us where where can people subscribe to the newsletter because it's actually really damn good.

57:44

And I don't say that like, actually, I'll I'll say. I would probably say that anyways if somebody came on, yes, I'm like, oh, you have a great newsletter, but I'll just kind of shout out that I actually believe it here. I'm not just being polite. But you actually do a really good job. And you're like us, you don't shy away from the topic of money.

And I don't say that like, actually, I'll I'll say. I would probably say that anyways if somebody came on, yes, I'm like, oh, you have a great newsletter, but I'll just kind of shout out that I actually believe it here. I'm not just being polite. But you actually do a really good job. And you're like us, you don't shy away from the topic of money.

58:03

You actually lean into it. You say, hey, you know, like, a lot of people are interested in making money, and a lot of people don't know what's under the hood of these different business models or businesses.

You actually lean into it. You say, hey, you know, like, a lot of people are interested in making money, and a lot of people don't know what's under the hood of these different business models or businesses.

58:12

And so, like, let's lift the hood together and let's look at this how this engine works and how it what's good about it, what's bad about it, and how you might wait make it work.

And so, like, let's lift the hood together and let's look at this how this engine works and how it what's good about it, what's bad about it, and how you might wait make it work.

58:19

We do that as a podcast. You do that on your newsletter, and we are very, like, sympatico as far as that that goes. And so where can people find you and where can people find the newsletter so they go subscribe?

We do that as a podcast. You do that on your newsletter, and we are very, like, sympatico as far as that that goes. And so where can people find you and where can people find the newsletter so they go subscribe?

58:28

Thanks for the shout. Yeah. Contrin thinking dot co is the newsletter.

Thanks for the shout. Yeah. Contrin thinking dot co is the newsletter.

58:33

And then it's Cody Sanchez, Cody underscore Sanchez on Twitter. I think those the two places on most

And then it's Cody Sanchez, Cody underscore Sanchez on Twitter. I think those the two places on most

58:39

rocking and rolling,

rocking and rolling,

58:40

and Twitter, man. I've really found that fascinating in the last six months. I think we've finally figured out how it works. So, apparently, I'm a little bit more a boomer than a millennial in some ways.

and Twitter, man. I've really found that fascinating in the last six months. I think we've finally figured out how it works. So, apparently, I'm a little bit more a boomer than a millennial in some ways.

58:51

Yeah. There you go. Cool. And we'll link it in the description. So if you didn't remember those, just scroll down and click the links in the description to, to find that of the podcast. Okay. Cody, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. I would like to have you back on at some point. Maybe we'll break down a couple of the businesses that you've either required or been looking at recently. And, I think that'll be a lot of fun, but thank you for coming. I'm in. Thanks for all the questions. It's always fun brainstorming with you. I

Yeah. There you go. Cool. And we'll link it in the description. So if you didn't remember those, just scroll down and click the links in the description to, to find that of the podcast. Okay. Cody, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. I would like to have you back on at some point. Maybe we'll break down a couple of the businesses that you've either required or been looking at recently. And, I think that'll be a lot of fun, but thank you for coming. I'm in. Thanks for all the questions. It's always fun brainstorming with you. I

59:15

feel

feel

59:16

like

like

59:17

I

I

59:18

could

could

59:19

rule

rule

59:20

the

the

59:21

I know I could be what I want to.

I know I could be what I want to.

59:24

I put my all in it like a day's off on a road. Let's travel never looking back. Back.

I put my all in it like a day's off on a road. Let's travel never looking back. Back.

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