00:00

It was it was strange. I was pulling up to my university or to college, and I would pull up in, at some I would pull up in, like,

It was it was strange. I was pulling up to my university or to college, and I would pull up in, at some I would pull up in, like,

00:07

drop top Lexus, like, it's seventy thousand car, and that was, like, nineteen. Right?

drop top Lexus, like, it's seventy thousand car, and that was, like, nineteen. Right?

00:18

Dude,

Dude,

00:19

so,

so,

00:22

Val

Val

00:24

Sean

Sean

00:26

he's not making it today, but that's okay. We,

he's not making it today, but that's okay. We,

00:29

so

so

00:30

your thing

your thing

00:31

went viral today. How many likes did you get? Like, three thousand

went viral today. How many likes did you get? Like, three thousand

00:36

three hundred. Something like that. I had to turn off my notifications. I can't do when you work with I don't know how you guys do it. I don't know how people do it while running full businesses, but I had to turn that off because I just can't concentrate. That that that thing just my phone was just blowing up all day.

three hundred. Something like that. I had to turn off my notifications. I can't do when you work with I don't know how you guys do it. I don't know how people do it while running full businesses, but I had to turn that off because I just can't concentrate. That that that thing just my phone was just blowing up all day.

00:49

Now you know how I feel. It's it is crazy. Right? It's crazy. So you you had three thousand followers. And now you have, like, nine, maybe, nine thousand. Something like that. Yeah.

Now you know how I feel. It's it is crazy. Right? It's crazy. So you you had three thousand followers. And now you have, like, nine, maybe, nine thousand. Something like that. Yeah.

00:57

I mean, it took me how many years to get up to, like, twenty

I mean, it took me how many years to get up to, like, twenty

01:01

seven hundred.

seven hundred.

01:04

Yeah, now it's I I don't know. I didn't look, to be honest with you, but I'm probably at like eight nine thousand at this point.

Yeah, now it's I I don't know. I didn't look, to be honest with you, but I'm probably at like eight nine thousand at this point.

01:09

So, alright. The background here is I met you through my,

So, alright. The background here is I met you through my,

01:13

like, we we share like a best friend Joe.

like, we we share like a best friend Joe.

01:16

And

And

01:18

we Joe told me about you. He goes, this guy is crazy and so let Val let me tell you what I know about you and you tell me if right or wrong, and then I wanna hear your story. But basic basically you he goes,

we Joe told me about you. He goes, this guy is crazy and so let Val let me tell you what I know about you and you tell me if right or wrong, and then I wanna hear your story. But basic basically you he goes,

01:29

and and I'll I won't reveal too many numbers. I'll let you talk about any number that you wanna talk because I I don't know if what I know is confidential or not. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna mention them, but

and and I'll I won't reveal too many numbers. I'll let you talk about any number that you wanna talk because I I don't know if what I know is confidential or not. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna mention them, but

01:38

you as a nineteen year old, you came from

you as a nineteen year old, you came from

01:41

Russia. You came from Russia? I came from Uzbekistan.

Russia. You came from Russia? I came from Uzbekistan.

01:45

Uzbek is the age of eleven.

Uzbek is the age of eleven.

01:47

And then you come here, you get a computer at, like, sixteen or seventeen, you start this, affiliate marketing,

And then you come here, you get a computer at, like, sixteen or seventeen, you start this, affiliate marketing,

01:54

business. You're the only employee. By age like twenty two, twenty three, you've made something like thirty million in profit. From this like one little business. From there, you parlayed that into an,

business. You're the only employee. By age like twenty two, twenty three, you've made something like thirty million in profit. From this like one little business. From there, you parlayed that into an,

02:05

a Lyric website that was like one of the biggest

a Lyric website that was like one of the biggest

02:09

lyric websites in the world, which doesn't sound that impressive, but most people don't realize that lyric websites are some of the most biggest websites in the world. And so that made like another eight figures in profit. From there, you parlayed that into

lyric websites in the world, which doesn't sound that impressive, but most people don't realize that lyric websites are some of the most biggest websites in the world. And so that made like another eight figures in profit. From there, you parlayed that into

02:21

a ad network that now is like huge. From there, you've now launched a jewelry business that apparently

a ad network that now is like huge. From there, you've now launched a jewelry business that apparently

02:28

Joe has said it's bigger than all your other companies, but I don't know if that's true or not. And then throughout all this, you've acquired and sold and developed

Joe has said it's bigger than all your other companies, but I don't know if that's true or not. And then throughout all this, you've acquired and sold and developed

02:36

like a hundred plus million dollars of real estate. Is all this accurate?

like a hundred plus million dollars of real estate. Is all this accurate?

02:40

Some of it. Okay. So

Some of it. Okay. So

02:42

well, actually, my first By the way, the reason I'm having you on here is because we've had a lot of really successful people on here do interesting stuff, and there are, like, a lot of them are well known.

well, actually, my first By the way, the reason I'm having you on here is because we've had a lot of really successful people on here do interesting stuff, and there are, like, a lot of them are well known.

02:52

But you

But you

02:54

don't I basically the other day begged you to, like, tweet something and I helped you write this tweet and like a few days and we got it out there. But, like, besides that, you've pretty much have never done any press. You've never talked about this publicly. And when I met you, I was like, This is a gold mine. This guy has so many interesting stories. We gotta tell the story. So anyway, what was wrong and what was right?

don't I basically the other day begged you to, like, tweet something and I helped you write this tweet and like a few days and we got it out there. But, like, besides that, you've pretty much have never done any press. You've never talked about this publicly. And when I met you, I was like, This is a gold mine. This guy has so many interesting stories. We gotta tell the story. So anyway, what was wrong and what was right?

03:14

So, okay. So well, actually, the funny part is that the the first business I had was

So, okay. So well, actually, the funny part is that the the first business I had was

03:21

a a PlayStation like a video game website. So

a a PlayStation like a video game website. So

03:24

it wasn't like huge, but, you know, I was in high school and making like five thousand bucks a month.

it wasn't like huge, but, you know, I was in high school and making like five thousand bucks a month.

03:30

That actually taught me a lot of lessons. So the so the

That actually taught me a lot of lessons. So the so the

03:34

the search market. And you actually told me I actually tweeted another thing about you where you said, hey, my twelve year old son has a website that's making like two gs a day or something like that. And he needs an email service provider. Which one should he use? And I tweeted that screenshot and it went Well, that was anonymous. It's not anonymous anymore, but,

the search market. And you actually told me I actually tweeted another thing about you where you said, hey, my twelve year old son has a website that's making like two gs a day or something like that. And he needs an email service provider. Which one should he use? And I tweeted that screenshot and it went Well, that was anonymous. It's not anonymous anymore, but,

03:53

so he he's, yeah, that that that oh, that's interesting. I I saw you post that.

so he he's, yeah, that that that oh, that's interesting. I I saw you post that.

03:57

And he still has a website. It's not doing it as well, but

And he still has a website. It's not doing it as well, but

04:01

not quite a two thousand.

not quite a two thousand.

04:05

Anymore, but, he's, he's working on, like, coding this thing away and he's, like, figuring out all these things. It's just actually amazing to see it, you know, at the at his age. At, you know, he's twelve years old. Where where'd you get it's crazy that you and your family, you're just finding all these opportunities. Where did it start you when you your thing first thing was a playstation website. Which what is that?

Anymore, but, he's, he's working on, like, coding this thing away and he's, like, figuring out all these things. It's just actually amazing to see it, you know, at the at his age. At, you know, he's twelve years old. Where where'd you get it's crazy that you and your family, you're just finding all these opportunities. Where did it start you when you your thing first thing was a playstation website. Which what is that?

04:26

So the cycle PSX extreme,

So the cycle PSX extreme,

04:29

we this is like I long like a ninety eight ninety nine or something like that. Actually it was ninety nine. It was right before the the the bubble the dot com bubble burst. I was like about

we this is like I long like a ninety eight ninety nine or something like that. Actually it was ninety nine. It was right before the the the bubble the dot com bubble burst. I was like about

04:38

eight months into the the the bubble, and it was doing really well. It was very easy to to generate revenue. And, you know, once I got the traffic, it was the site was all about

eight months into the the the bubble, and it was doing really well. It was very easy to to generate revenue. And, you know, once I got the traffic, it was the site was all about

04:48

anything related to playstation.

anything related to playstation.

04:50

So like, get cheat codes, your reviews,

So like, get cheat codes, your reviews,

04:54

screenshots,

screenshots,

04:55

whatever. Right? Anything for like PlayStation fans. So it was like a PlayStation

whatever. Right? Anything for like PlayStation fans. So it was like a PlayStation

04:59

fan website.

fan website.

05:01

Then the dot com Bubba hits,

Then the dot com Bubba hits,

05:04

my revenues disappear ninety percent. My traffic was still up there, but I had no revenues because all the ad revenue disappeared. Like, it went from being three dollars CPM down to thirty cents CPM if you could be lucky enough to get that. How many people were going to this one? It wasn't huge, but I had, like, like, ten thousand uniques a day.

my revenues disappear ninety percent. My traffic was still up there, but I had no revenues because all the ad revenue disappeared. Like, it went from being three dollars CPM down to thirty cents CPM if you could be lucky enough to get that. How many people were going to this one? It wasn't huge, but I had, like, like, ten thousand uniques a day.

05:21

Maybe twenty thousand in ninety and ninety nine and ninety eight. Gotta be a massive site. Yeah. It was good. It was a good amount of traffic and it was all free.

Maybe twenty thousand in ninety and ninety nine and ninety eight. Gotta be a massive site. Yeah. It was good. It was a good amount of traffic and it was all free.

05:31

So it was interesting, like, experience because I had to quickly learn how to generate revenue, and I I had to go out there and sell advertising myself.

So it was interesting, like, experience because I had to quickly learn how to generate revenue, and I I had to go out there and sell advertising myself.

05:39

And, you know, like, I then once I figured out that I could sell advertising,

And, you know, like, I then once I figured out that I could sell advertising,

05:45

I didn't have enough traffic.

I didn't have enough traffic.

05:47

So I went I started going to other video games saying who had much more traffic than me. I said, hey, I got all these advertisers who would spend more if I had more traffic. Like, I'll let me put ads on your sites.

So I went I started going to other video games saying who had much more traffic than me. I said, hey, I got all these advertisers who would spend more if I had more traffic. Like, I'll let me put ads on your sites.

05:59

So I went to all these other video game sites

So I went to all these other video game sites

06:02

and like just was a broker for appetizing.

and like just was a broker for appetizing.

06:06

So that was kinda, like, my first,

So that was kinda, like, my first,

06:08

you know, making decent amount of money.

you know, making decent amount of money.

06:12

I was making five and then, like, just from the side, and I was making probably another ten a month

I was making five and then, like, just from the side, and I was making probably another ten a month

06:17

from being a broker.

from being a broker.

06:20

And then the thing that you tweeted today

And then the thing that you tweeted today

06:23

or maybe last night, It based basically, you told the story about how when you were nineteen, after this PlayStation site, you built an affiliate ad site, and it made, like, I forget I forget the numbers, but in two or three years, it was like over thirty million in profit. So what were you you were selling

or maybe last night, It based basically, you told the story about how when you were nineteen, after this PlayStation site, you built an affiliate ad site, and it made, like, I forget I forget the numbers, but in two or three years, it was like over thirty million in profit. So what were you you were selling

06:39

stuff on behalf of half dot com? Or eBay? Who were you? Or, no, New York Times. You had like eight hundred basic basically, you had like eight hundred ad accounts that sold different

stuff on behalf of half dot com? Or eBay? Who were you? Or, no, New York Times. You had like eight hundred basic basically, you had like eight hundred ad accounts that sold different

06:49

stuff. So like a New York Times subscription

stuff. So like a New York Times subscription

06:51

for or which sold for a hundred dollars, but you were able to sell it for thirty bucks. So you're able to keep the difference. Something like that? Yeah. So,

for or which sold for a hundred dollars, but you were able to sell it for thirty bucks. So you're able to keep the difference. Something like that? Yeah. So,

07:00

you know, it's affiliate marketing,

you know, it's affiliate marketing,

07:02

but I used paid search,

but I used paid search,

07:04

which was very new back then.

which was very new back then.

07:06

And at the time,

And at the time,

07:09

when after the dot com

when after the dot com

07:11

bubble burst, all the advertisers

bubble burst, all the advertisers

07:14

gets all of a sudden advertising, digital advertising stop being interesting. You know, for sec for for a moment there, people thought businesses thought it might, you know, internet might be over

gets all of a sudden advertising, digital advertising stop being interesting. You know, for sec for for a moment there, people thought businesses thought it might, you know, internet might be over

07:26

over high ad. Right?

over high ad. Right?

07:28

So all of a sudden, you see kind of all these budgets get know, just get pulled back, right, especially all the brand advertising.

So all of a sudden, you see kind of all these budgets get know, just get pulled back, right, especially all the brand advertising.

07:35

And

And

07:36

but nobody really, you know, so everybody have to still figure out how to get customers. So they say, okay. You know what? Won't do brand advertising.

but nobody really, you know, so everybody have to still figure out how to get customers. So they say, okay. You know what? Won't do brand advertising.

07:43

But if you drop if somebody drives us customers, we'll pay per customer. Like, we can't loosen that. Right? So performance marketing.

But if you drop if somebody drives us customers, we'll pay per customer. Like, we can't loosen that. Right? So performance marketing.

07:51

So that was around and it was very,

So that was around and it was very,

07:54

accessible.

accessible.

07:56

And at the same time,

And at the same time,

07:59

the media wasn't expensive,

the media wasn't expensive,

08:01

right, because the the supply was there, but the demand wasn't there. So that's what I took advantage of.

right, because the the supply was there, but the demand wasn't there. So that's what I took advantage of.

08:06

I start buying up, well, a lot of the supply mostly with search search, page search.

I start buying up, well, a lot of the supply mostly with search search, page search.

08:12

And that's what made everything so

And that's what made everything so

08:14

profitable because I was just playing into those supply demand dynamics that were working in my favor.

profitable because I was just playing into those supply demand dynamics that were working in my favor.

08:22

But, yes, what I would do is I would find an advertiser

But, yes, what I would do is I would find an advertiser

08:25

that had a product.

that had a product.

08:27

I would test it on

I would test it on

08:29

at the time, you know, kind of like the the modern day Yahoo page search or back down was called go to dot com.

at the time, you know, kind of like the the modern day Yahoo page search or back down was called go to dot com.

08:37

And then later Google came around.

And then later Google came around.

08:40

So I would test that ad. If it works,

So I would test that ad. If it works,

08:43

I expand on it. If it doesn't work, right, I would figure out how to make it work. Right? If there's if there is a if there's a way to make it work.

I expand on it. If it doesn't work, right, I would figure out how to make it work. Right? If there's if there is a if there's a way to make it work.

08:52

And, yeah, just like, it just the, you know, they will spend

And, yeah, just like, it just the, you know, they will spend

08:57

and what what things were you saying? Oh, man. Everything. Everything.

and what what things were you saying? Oh, man. Everything. Everything.

09:01

Yeah. And all of this and all of this was making, like,

Yeah. And all of this and all of this was making, like,

09:06

like many millions

like many millions

09:08

of dollars of sales for your little one person operation every year. Yes.

of dollars of sales for your little one person operation every year. Yes.

09:15

That's crazy. How yeah. Tell us a little bit about, like, what was going on in your life at the time? Like, did you try and go to call You're doing this while you were at college? Did you drop out? Like, what what are you doing with your life?

That's crazy. How yeah. Tell us a little bit about, like, what was going on in your life at the time? Like, did you try and go to call You're doing this while you were at college? Did you drop out? Like, what what are you doing with your life?

09:26

So, I already had the business.

So, I already had the business.

09:30

And

And

09:31

I went I got into,

I went I got into,

09:32

like, I'll I'll finance.

like, I'll I'll finance.

09:34

So I was like, alright. Someone do business finance, and I didn't really feel like I should be, but I only did it because and I had no time for it.

So I was like, alright. Someone do business finance, and I didn't really feel like I should be, but I only did it because and I had no time for it.

09:42

You seem like you'd be awful at that. I am I was awful. I was actually interested in the especially the topics I was interested in, like

You seem like you'd be awful at that. I am I was awful. I was actually interested in the especially the topics I was interested in, like

09:51

law or finance or business, accounting. All those things were just like, I I couldn't I

law or finance or business, accounting. All those things were just like, I I couldn't I

09:55

couldn't see through biology. But even even though they were interesting, I had no time to study, so I would suck the tests. My GPA was horrible. I can't remember what it was, but it was just horrible.

couldn't see through biology. But even even though they were interesting, I had no time to study, so I would suck the tests. My GPA was horrible. I can't remember what it was, but it was just horrible.

10:05

Because I just didn't care to,

Because I just didn't care to,

10:07

you know, get prepared for the test. I slept in half the class of just catching up on sleep because I would go to sleep at four o'clock in the morning. And then I don't you still do that? Don't you go to sleep at four and get up at noon?

you know, get prepared for the test. I slept in half the class of just catching up on sleep because I would go to sleep at four o'clock in the morning. And then I don't you still do that? Don't you go to sleep at four and get up at noon?

10:21

Yeah. At average, four, five five.

Yeah. At average, four, five five.

10:25

Yeah. So if I go to sleep up, I think yesterday, I went to sleep at four, three. I woke up at eleven. So I tried to get, try to get seven hours of sleep. Doesn't happen all the time. You know, a lot of times I have to, you know, live on five, six hours.

Yeah. So if I go to sleep up, I think yesterday, I went to sleep at four, three. I woke up at eleven. So I tried to get, try to get seven hours of sleep. Doesn't happen all the time. You know, a lot of times I have to, you know, live on five, six hours.

10:37

But do you? So do do you recognize

But do you? So do do you recognize

10:40

that you're a weirdo?

that you're a weirdo?

10:42

I'm used to I'm used to it. You know what? I'm I'm a weirdo.

I'm used to I'm used to it. You know what? I'm I'm a weirdo.

10:48

I I know. I'm I'm due I do everything in reverse. My wife keeps telling me, like,

I I know. I'm I'm due I do everything in reverse. My wife keeps telling me, like,

10:52

Like, you do everything backwards?

Like, you do everything backwards?

10:54

Well, so you you're you're studying,

Well, so you you're you're studying,

10:57

finance, but you're not doing well because you're running these Well, I'm in school just because I have a Jewish mother, and she

finance, but you're not doing well because you're running these Well, I'm in school just because I have a Jewish mother, and she

11:04

wanted me to go to, like Oh, gotta be in school. You have to be in college. Right? Or you have to go But did they know that you're like, hey, mom, like, I bet you I'm making more money than you?

wanted me to go to, like Oh, gotta be in school. You have to be in college. Right? Or you have to go But did they know that you're like, hey, mom, like, I bet you I'm making more money than you?

11:15

I think she she kinda knew. I don't know if she knew, but, what I was making. I don't remember.

I think she she kinda knew. I don't know if she knew, but, what I was making. I don't remember.

11:20

But it was it was strange. I was pulling up to my university or to college. I went I went to Baruque,

But it was it was strange. I was pulling up to my university or to college. I went I went to Baruque,

11:26

New York City, Peru

New York City, Peru

11:28

business of, finances, Zipline business of finance.

business of, finances, Zipline business of finance.

11:33

I would pull up in, at some I would pull up in, like,

I would pull up in, at some I would pull up in, like,

11:37

drop top Lexus, like, it's seventy thousand dollar car, and that was, nineteen. Right? So her eighteen, whatever I was. I think it was eighteen at that point. I think I don't think I even started the paid search of this at this point.

drop top Lexus, like, it's seventy thousand dollar car, and that was, nineteen. Right? So her eighteen, whatever I was. I think it was eighteen at that point. I think I don't think I even started the paid search of this at this point.

11:49

So this business is just like crushing it. So like a few years in, you've in your tweet, you said it made over thirty million in profits, like three, four, five years in.

So this business is just like crushing it. So like a few years in, you've in your tweet, you said it made over thirty million in profits, like three, four, five years in.

11:58

So it's gone really well. You're paying like a crazy amount of taxes you said. So you decide to move

So it's gone really well. You're paying like a crazy amount of taxes you said. So you decide to move

12:04

to the Burbs a little bit outside of New York City and you like buy cheap house in cash. So things are going well. Right? Like, it is but you you said,

to the Burbs a little bit outside of New York City and you like buy cheap house in cash. So things are going well. Right? Like, it is but you you said,

12:15

you know, I'm a little bored with this or I'm I'm not I don't really wanna much further into this in this racket, I wanna try something new. And then the next business was, mobile fuse, which is around today. Right?

you know, I'm a little bored with this or I'm I'm not I don't really wanna much further into this in this racket, I wanna try something new. And then the next business was, mobile fuse, which is around today. Right?

12:26

So I actually launched around the same time.

So I actually launched around the same time.

12:30

We launched two businesses. So I I

We launched two businesses. So I I

12:33

launched I launched let's call the the the the music content distribution company. Oh, that's right. Sorry. Right. So that

launched I launched let's call the the the the music content distribution company. Oh, that's right. Sorry. Right. So that

12:41

so we didn't own I didn't own actually Lyric sites. What I did I built a

so we didn't own I didn't own actually Lyric sites. What I did I built a

12:46

service,

service,

12:48

I build a system

I build a system

12:50

that connect

that connect

12:52

called ringtone matcher.

called ringtone matcher.

12:54

And what I realized was there was demand for ringtones, and there was all this traffic for,

And what I realized was there was demand for ringtones, and there was all this traffic for,

13:02

for all this music related traffic,

for all this music related traffic,

13:04

especially in lyrics.

especially in lyrics.

13:06

And so what I did is I built a service, and the other thing I realized that the the traffic was very much inter National.

And so what I did is I built a service, and the other thing I realized that the the traffic was very much inter National.

13:12

Like, seventy percent of a of a music site or a lyrics site was non US.

Like, seventy percent of a of a music site or a lyrics site was non US.

13:19

And I noticed that some of the Advertisers, like ringtone advertisers were advertised, they'll they'll do okay.

And I noticed that some of the Advertisers, like ringtone advertisers were advertised, they'll they'll do okay.

13:25

But they would have only u they could only accept US customers, and they could only accept like Verizon customer or only T Mobile customer.

But they would have only u they could only accept US customers, and they could only accept like Verizon customer or only T Mobile customer.

13:33

So I built this thing called ringtone matcher, and

So I built this thing called ringtone matcher, and

13:36

ringtone matcher basically integrated, like,

ringtone matcher basically integrated, like,

13:40

sixty,

sixty,

13:42

countries into one

countries into one

13:44

system.

system.

13:45

So if you have a music site,

So if you have a music site,

13:48

you could drive

you could drive

13:51

that goes users to ringtoneacher and ringtone Match will figure out

that goes users to ringtoneacher and ringtone Match will figure out

13:56

based on geo, like what country you're in,

based on geo, like what country you're in,

13:59

right,

right,

14:00

based on what carrier you use because it's carrier billing. So it's important that

based on what carrier you use because it's carrier billing. So it's important that

14:04

I figured out, like, you have T Mobile

I figured out, like, you have T Mobile

14:07

and

and

14:07

to match you up to a ringtone service that actually,

to match you up to a ringtone service that actually,

14:11

is compatible with T Mobile.

is compatible with T Mobile.

14:13

And then the third thing we'll look for

And then the third thing we'll look for

14:15

that content is available. So if you're clicking on, hey, get this

that content is available. So if you're clicking on, hey, get this

14:19

get toxic by Britney Spears ringtone on your phone.

get toxic by Britney Spears ringtone on your phone.

14:23

I need to make sure that

I need to make sure that

14:26

that song is also available in their catalog

that song is also available in their catalog

14:29

because some

because some

14:31

Some ringtone providers had

Some ringtone providers had

14:34

like warner music and some of some of them maybe just had the EMI. They were like four major music companies at the time.

like warner music and some of some of them maybe just had the EMI. They were like four major music companies at the time.

14:40

And, you know, these ringtone providers didn't have all those catalogs. So they they might have one or two at a time. So I would all that data and put it into one simple

And, you know, these ringtone providers didn't have all those catalogs. So they they might have one or two at a time. So I would all that data and put it into one simple

14:52

link.

link.

14:53

And and how big did that get?

And and how big did that get?

14:56

How big did that business get? In front of ringtone match, it was in front of a half a billion people a month.

How big did that business get? In front of ringtone match, it was in front of a half a billion people a month.

15:04

Yeah. Have a billing. So, and it was everywhere. I

Yeah. Have a billing. So, and it was everywhere. I

15:10

mean, It wasn't just lyric sites. I was on CBS radio, AOL radio, Yahoo radio, Lasta

mean, It wasn't just lyric sites. I was on CBS radio, AOL radio, Yahoo radio, Lasta

15:15

fam, like every, pretty much every music site.

fam, like every, pretty much every music site.

15:19

Ever even talking to Musically, which is TikTok now. Right? I remember even talking to those guys. I was talking to,

Ever even talking to Musically, which is TikTok now. Right? I remember even talking to those guys. I was talking to,

15:24

we were talking to WhatsApp

we were talking to WhatsApp

15:26

in the early days, like, when they were just too or something. Like, we wanted to integrate because anytime somebody mentions music or, a song or something, like, I want it to be I want my I wanna bring to a match her there to show up. So

in the early days, like, when they were just too or something. Like, we wanted to integrate because anytime somebody mentions music or, a song or something, like, I want it to be I want my I wanna bring to a match her there to show up. So

15:38

but what what but when you're you're using the word we, again, it's not we No. No. This company was

but what what but when you're you're using the word we, again, it's not we No. No. This company was

15:44

so, actually, that company

so, actually, that company

15:46

I started ring to match it myself.

I started ring to match it myself.

15:49

Again, I was a one man show.

Again, I was a one man show.

15:52

At some point, I

At some point, I

15:55

We, you know, there was one little group of guys

We, you know, there was one little group of guys

15:59

who were pretty good at dealing with advertisers.

who were pretty good at dealing with advertisers.

16:04

And, or actually ringtone providers, and I felt like I need help on that front.

And, or actually ringtone providers, and I felt like I need help on that front.

16:09

And,

And,

16:11

I merged those guys in. So there were five guys that merged into my company,

I merged those guys in. So there were five guys that merged into my company,

16:15

to form when you say merge, who bought who?

to form when you say merge, who bought who?

16:19

I was

I was

16:21

majority owner of the company. And then the the the five guys had

majority owner of the company. And then the the the five guys had

16:25

the, like, they they they had a third of the company. I had two thirds.

the, like, they they they had a third of the company. I had two thirds.

16:28

How big it was it when it was just you?

How big it was it when it was just you?

16:33

It was just who's going nuts up, but

It was just who's going nuts up, but

16:37

I think

I think

16:38

I believe the

I believe the

16:40

the year

the year

16:41

I think the year we merged,

I think the year we merged,

16:44

it was ten million.

it was ten million.

16:47

Just again, just you. Yep.

Just again, just you. Yep.

16:49

Ten billion profit with just you. Do you why do you think this is the we'll get to the rest in a minute, but why do you think that you find this weird stuff? And why don't you hire people? Two questions, but how on earth do you find this type of stuff? You know, uh-uh,

Ten billion profit with just you. Do you why do you think this is the we'll get to the rest in a minute, but why do you think that you find this weird stuff? And why don't you hire people? Two questions, but how on earth do you find this type of stuff? You know, uh-uh,

17:06

it's it's it's funny. Like, I know how I see how organized you are. Right? Like, you make your goal. You lay everything out on paper.

it's it's it's funny. Like, I know how I see how organized you are. Right? Like, you make your goal. You lay everything out on paper.

17:13

Right? You're you're very organized. Then you could think about it. You ask people for feedback.

Right? You're you're very organized. Then you could think about it. You ask people for feedback.

17:19

I'm totally opposite of that.

I'm totally opposite of that.

17:22

I just kinda go with where, like, I type to test things,

I just kinda go with where, like, I type to test things,

17:26

and I'm I guess I'm very curious.

and I'm I guess I'm very curious.

17:30

And, and I and I I could be very, very focused,

And, and I and I I could be very, very focused,

17:33

but if I get distracted,

but if I get distracted,

17:35

I get very easily distracted.

I get very easily distracted.

17:37

Right?

Right?

17:39

So it could be like sometimes it's a curse, but sometimes it's a blessing.

So it could be like sometimes it's a curse, but sometimes it's a blessing.

17:42

A lot of times it's a blessing.

A lot of times it's a blessing.

17:45

And they come across these interesting things and my curiosity just

And they come across these interesting things and my curiosity just

17:49

takes it further.

takes it further.

17:51

So when I when I so

So when I when I so

17:54

the the way I actually came across

the the way I actually came across

17:58

This thing

This thing

17:59

was because I felt that at at there was a point of my life where I was seeing Google was just too dominant part of my business.

was because I felt that at at there was a point of my life where I was seeing Google was just too dominant part of my business.

18:06

And I didn't like that.

And I didn't like that.

18:08

Because I didn't wanna rely on any one thing.

Because I didn't wanna rely on any one thing.

18:11

So I started looking outside of page search

So I started looking outside of page search

18:15

for supply.

for supply.

18:19

And I came across these music sites and I actually started testing rhapsody on them because I had such a good deal with Rhapsody. I was like, let me start marketing outside of

And I came across these music sites and I actually started testing rhapsody on them because I had such a good deal with Rhapsody. I was like, let me start marketing outside of

18:28

search.

search.

18:30

I did okay.

I did okay.

18:32

And I had these start building these relationships with the music sites, and then then then I kinda tested a ringtone service, and it just crushed. Like, it was not even close.

And I had these start building these relationships with the music sites, and then then then I kinda tested a ringtone service, and it just crushed. Like, it was not even close.

18:43

Like, it did three times better. And I was like, wow, this thing is did three times better than Rhapsody,

Like, it did three times better. And I was like, wow, this thing is did three times better than Rhapsody,

18:49

and that

and that

18:50

Rinkthong provider

Rinkthong provider

18:52

was,

was,

18:53

just covering US just like one or two music labels

just covering US just like one or two music labels

18:57

and, like, two carriers out of four. I think I there were four major carriers at the time.

and, like, two carriers out of four. I think I there were four major carriers at the time.

19:02

I was like, hold on a second. If it's already two, three

I was like, hold on a second. If it's already two, three

19:06

times as well,

times as well,

19:08

What happens if I start integrating

What happens if I start integrating

19:10

everything globally? Right?

everything globally? Right?

19:13

So that's how ringtone Natural came about.

So that's how ringtone Natural came about.

19:16

Was there when you launch stuff, what's your first version like?

Was there when you launch stuff, what's your first version like?

19:21

Junk. Like, you get the idea and it's alive in twelve hours. It was a kitty script.

Junk. Like, you get the idea and it's alive in twelve hours. It was a kitty script.

19:26

I wrote.

I wrote.

19:29

This, you know, guy was kind of freelancing for me a little bit. I just I I didn't wanna tell him about the idea.

This, you know, guy was kind of freelancing for me a little bit. I just I I didn't wanna tell him about the idea.

19:36

He's actually a CTO of one of my companies now.

He's actually a CTO of one of my companies now.

19:41

He was like fifteen, sixteen years old.

He was like fifteen, sixteen years old.

19:44

Didn't tell him the idea. So I said, Hey, how do you script this? How do you script that? So I script it with myself.

Didn't tell him the idea. So I said, Hey, how do you script this? How do you script that? So I script it with myself.

19:51

And,

And,

19:53

And, so yeah, so it was pure junk. It was literally just a bunch of if and then statements on and and ASP.

And, so yeah, so it was pure junk. It was literally just a bunch of if and then statements on and and ASP.

20:01

It was a we were running windows

It was a we were running windows

20:03

Windows server on ASP,

Windows server on ASP,

20:06

infrastructure.

infrastructure.

20:07

So

So

20:08

I,

I,

20:09

I had a bunch of redirects that were just doing a bunch of if and then state in in in redirecting people based on certain parameters. Wouldn't

I had a bunch of redirects that were just doing a bunch of if and then state in in in redirecting people based on certain parameters. Wouldn't

20:16

and when you're doing it, are you like

and when you're doing it, are you like

20:19

every time I've hung out with you, the reason I like hanging out with you and Joe, I consider Joe my best friends. And so I have, like, his attitude. You and Joe have the same attitude, which is, like

every time I've hung out with you, the reason I like hanging out with you and Joe, I consider Joe my best friends. And so I have, like, his attitude. You and Joe have the same attitude, which is, like

20:28

He's a little more laid back than this and you, I think.

He's a little more laid back than this and you, I think.

20:32

He is he is I've never seen him lose his temper. He is very calm, and I'm like, hey, this didn't work out for this reason. He goes, oh, that's okay. Like he's super calm, but you have that too. I think I think that, like,

He is he is I've never seen him lose his temper. He is very calm, and I'm like, hey, this didn't work out for this reason. He goes, oh, that's okay. Like he's super calm, but you have that too. I think I think that, like,

20:45

I think that what it is you have this, like, I don't know if the right word is like HutzPA, if the right word is like I don't know what the word is, but

I think that what it is you have this, like, I don't know if the right word is like HutzPA, if the right word is like I don't know what the word is, but

20:54

it's almost like things

it's almost like things

20:56

I've I've heard we're gonna get to the rest of the stories because because there's like this jewelry business that you started which is like seems like even bigger than

I've I've heard we're gonna get to the rest of the stories because because there's like this jewelry business that you started which is like seems like even bigger than

21:03

all the other things that you've done potentially.

all the other things that you've done potentially.

21:05

And

And

21:06

you, like, do these things where I'm like, but, like, Val, you don't know anything about that. And, like, you don't even have any employees, like, you don't know anything. And, but you just are like, yeah, but I, you know, what, whatever. I'll just, we'll just go a little further, and then we'll see what happens. And then if it if it sucks, I'll bail. You know what I mean? Like, you have this, like, aw shucks attitude, oh, you know, yeah, we'll see what happens. It's very interesting. Whereas, like, if I was doing what you were doing and I started seeing those results, I'm like, is this Am I breaking the law? Am I gonna go to jail? What is going on? Like, it would oh, it's almost like I would have most people would have self destructive tendencies when they see this, like, going so well. Yeah. Look, I see that all the time. I feel like people

you, like, do these things where I'm like, but, like, Val, you don't know anything about that. And, like, you don't even have any employees, like, you don't know anything. And, but you just are like, yeah, but I, you know, what, whatever. I'll just, we'll just go a little further, and then we'll see what happens. And then if it if it sucks, I'll bail. You know what I mean? Like, you have this, like, aw shucks attitude, oh, you know, yeah, we'll see what happens. It's very interesting. Whereas, like, if I was doing what you were doing and I started seeing those results, I'm like, is this Am I breaking the law? Am I gonna go to jail? What is going on? Like, it would oh, it's almost like I would have most people would have self destructive tendencies when they see this, like, going so well. Yeah. Look, I see that all the time. I feel like people

21:47

tend to overthink things and spend a lot of time like analysis paralysis.

tend to overthink things and spend a lot of time like analysis paralysis.

21:53

And

And

21:54

the reason I think a lot of people are successful, but especially

the reason I think a lot of people are successful, but especially

21:59

somebody

somebody

22:02

like me

like me

22:03

is

is

22:04

while somebody's thinking about making perfecting one thing, which, by the way, will still have a

while somebody's thinking about making perfecting one thing, which, by the way, will still have a

22:11

you know, a sixty percent failure. Right? And that one thing that you just overthought,

you know, a sixty percent failure. Right? And that one thing that you just overthought,

22:16

I'd rather test ten things by, within that same time period.

I'd rather test ten things by, within that same time period.

22:21

And I will likely have I have a better,

And I will likely have I have a better,

22:24

accuracy or I'll I'll have a better,

accuracy or I'll I'll have a better,

22:27

chance

chance

22:28

of hitting it out of the ballpark

of hitting it out of the ballpark

22:31

with one of those ten things. Or maybe more than one of those things.

with one of those ten things. Or maybe more than one of those things.

22:35

Yeah. How did you get into the jewelry business to start with?

Yeah. How did you get into the jewelry business to start with?

22:39

So after I sold

So after I sold

22:43

those two music related companies, which

those two music related companies, which

22:49

I took like three years off

I took like three years off

22:51

off. You know, I thought I retired.

off. You know, I thought I retired.

22:55

But it was anything but I just got stopped start getting, like,

But it was anything but I just got stopped start getting, like,

22:59

my my curiosity was just taking me into all different, like, I was on these boards, and I was, like, all investing into a bunch of things. And,

my my curiosity was just taking me into all different, like, I was on these boards, and I was, like, all investing into a bunch of things. And,

23:07

and I realized that for three years, I need to build something again.

and I realized that for three years, I need to build something again.

23:11

So I started looking at knew that I wanted to do something where it's,

So I started looking at knew that I wanted to do something where it's,

23:16

fixing or disrupting

fixing or disrupting

23:19

a fragmented space.

a fragmented space.

23:21

I didn't really wanna go after, like, corporate America.

I didn't really wanna go after, like, corporate America.

23:25

I wanted to go after, like, mom and pops that

I wanted to go after, like, mom and pops that

23:28

when I say mom and pop, could be like, you know, I'm thinking like car dealerships, right? They do tens of millions of dollars. It doesn't mean they're tiny. Right? So I wanted to go after something like along those lines.

when I say mom and pop, could be like, you know, I'm thinking like car dealerships, right? They do tens of millions of dollars. It doesn't mean they're tiny. Right? So I wanted to go after something like along those lines.

23:40

And I had some investments in the jewelry space. I had some family in the jewelry space. It's a pretty tight knit community.

And I had some investments in the jewelry space. I had some family in the jewelry space. It's a pretty tight knit community.

23:45

I just happen to be

I just happen to be

23:48

had some family that,

had some family that,

23:50

to that that knows that that that business.

to that that knows that that that business.

23:53

I actually worked

I actually worked

23:55

as a teenager, I worked,

as a teenager, I worked,

23:58

every weekend. I worked in a in a in a in a jewelry store.

every weekend. I worked in a in a in a in a jewelry store.

24:02

I knew how to fix, like, I knew how to fix jewelry. I mean, I would sit on a bench,

I knew how to fix, like, I knew how to fix jewelry. I mean, I would sit on a bench,

24:08

with a blowtorch at like fifteen years old.

with a blowtorch at like fifteen years old.

24:12

Because my cousin taught me. It was my it was a it was a family business. My my my aunt and uncle's business. They had a couple, jewelry stores.

Because my cousin taught me. It was my it was a it was a family business. My my my aunt and uncle's business. They had a couple, jewelry stores.

24:20

And,

And,

24:21

they taught me how to fix jewelry, and,

they taught me how to fix jewelry, and,

24:24

to you know, so I knew a business a a bit from the retailer's perspective.

to you know, so I knew a business a a bit from the retailer's perspective.

24:29

It always seemed like a very

It always seemed like a very

24:32

weird way to do business. I I always had questioned everything like they're doing.

weird way to do business. I I always had questioned everything like they're doing.

24:37

And,

And,

24:38

so so,

so so,

24:40

so I the idea was, hey, like, these retailers

so I the idea was, hey, like, these retailers

24:45

if we could integrate build a platform

if we could integrate build a platform

24:47

and services,

and services,

24:49

then we could integrate into them. And this is a three hundred billion dollar industry, by the way, low

then we could integrate into them. And this is a three hundred billion dollar industry, by the way, low

24:56

which fragmented, but controls

which fragmented, but controls

24:58

is actually bigger,

is actually bigger,

25:00

independence are bigger part of the business, fine jewelry than the, the major or the chains.

independence are bigger part of the business, fine jewelry than the, the major or the chains.

25:07

So I knew that, again, if I could build distribution, but I had to bring some then then there's a lot of power there.

So I knew that, again, if I could build distribution, but I had to bring some then then there's a lot of power there.

25:13

But I have to bring value, and

But I have to bring value, and

25:15

that's where my

that's where my

25:17

expertise in data and marketing,

expertise in data and marketing,

25:19

digital, all that came into for to fruition, you know, so we basically put this thing together. We integrate into stores and help them grow, help them bring customers cut cost, increase their revenue?

digital, all that came into for to fruition, you know, so we basically put this thing together. We integrate into stores and help them grow, help them bring customers cut cost, increase their revenue?

25:30

How much did you invest to start it?

How much did you invest to start it?

25:35

To start it.

To start it.

25:36

I I don't I mean, to start it, I think I we drop a couple of million.

I I don't I mean, to start it, I think I we drop a couple of million.

25:41

So you put two million dollars of your money. Yeah. How big is this?

So you put two million dollars of your money. Yeah. How big is this?

25:44

And but you've done more. I think you put more in since how big is this gonna be? I put in way more. I mean, at this point, I put in eight figures into this business.

And but you've done more. I think you put more in since how big is this gonna be? I put in way more. I mean, at this point, I put in eight figures into this business.

25:53

I think it's a multi billion dollar company in the future.

I think it's a multi billion dollar company in the future.

25:56

For real. Yeah. It's a multi billion dollar company, like, to sell?

For real. Yeah. It's a multi billion dollar company, like, to sell?

26:00

Yeah, market cap. I I I believe that, a, I don't know if there's a new way big enough to buy my company or this or we we actually have a lot of people this time around. It's no it's no longer just Val.

Yeah, market cap. I I I believe that, a, I don't know if there's a new way big enough to buy my company or this or we we actually have a lot of people this time around. It's no it's no longer just Val.

26:10

We have a lot of employees.

We have a lot of employees.

26:13

I I believe this company will be

I I believe this company will be

26:16

If it's successful and we could do what we need to do and we could really help,

If it's successful and we could do what we need to do and we could really help,

26:20

all these retailers

all these retailers

26:22

step up their game.

step up their game.

26:25

I I I don't think there there's really a company in that space

I I I don't think there there's really a company in that space

26:30

that would be big enough to acquire us. So, like, but are you are you

that would be big enough to acquire us. So, like, but are you are you

26:34

the CEO of that company.

the CEO of that company.

26:37

Is that smart? I mean, this doesn't seem like you're you're just you get up at eleven AM and, like,

Is that smart? I mean, this doesn't seem like you're you're just you get up at eleven AM and, like,

26:43

you go to bed for, how are you the CEO of a company that could be a billion dollar company?

you go to bed for, how are you the CEO of a company that could be a billion dollar company?

26:49

Yeah. No. Good question. Look, I am we have

Yeah. No. Good question. Look, I am we have

26:53

a great team

a great team

26:54

that is able to execute how many people.

that is able to execute how many people.

27:00

It's hard to say. We we became pretty global, but, you know, our our our offices outside of US are not all,

It's hard to say. We we became pretty global, but, you know, our our our offices outside of US are not all,

27:06

most of the nine employees. Right? So they're so all all all in

most of the nine employees. Right? So they're so all all all in

27:10

if I had to talk about factories, our our tech teams, our marketing teams are, we're probably talking

if I had to talk about factories, our our tech teams, our marketing teams are, we're probably talking

27:18

about seventy people at this point.

about seventy people at this point.

27:21

Wow. And who's, like,

Wow. And who's, like,

27:23

you're not running the day to day of a business? Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Ninety five same up time goes into this business.

you're not running the day to day of a business? Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Ninety five same up time goes into this business.

27:29

So then are you like talking with the employees and things like that? I mean, you're like running all hands meetings and things like that? Yeah. I'm not big on meetings. I'll be on, you know, to be honest with you.

So then are you like talking with the employees and things like that? I mean, you're like running all hands meetings and things like that? Yeah. I'm not big on meetings. I'll be on, you know, to be honest with you.

27:37

But,

But,

27:38

but, I'm very accessible to all my team. I mean,

but, I'm very accessible to all my team. I mean,

27:41

everybody

everybody

27:42

on my teams have access to me

on my teams have access to me

27:45

I go into the office,

I go into the office,

27:47

in the city. We actually had the

in the city. We actually had the

27:49

we were in the office June June June twenty twenty. I mean, we had you know, COVID. Like,

we were in the office June June June twenty twenty. I mean, we had you know, COVID. Like,

27:55

it was ghost town in the city, and we had to figure out how to be in the office because it's not an econ. It's not just

it was ghost town in the city, and we had to figure out how to be in the office because it's not an econ. It's not just

28:02

a a digital ad business that I could just operate from from work from home. Right? We had to have people in the offices. And,

a a digital ad business that I could just operate from from work from home. Right? We had to have people in the offices. And,

28:09

we did all kinds of things. We we we we we we we we got cars to car, to to to pull people in to the office. But,

we did all kinds of things. We we we we we we we we got cars to car, to to to pull people in to the office. But,

28:17

anyway,

anyway,

28:17

we yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm there. I'm I'm in the weeds.

we yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm there. I'm I'm in the weeds.

28:22

But it's not like you're kinda downplaying it. I invested in one of your your properties. We bought a six plex in Greenpoint. I think I forget Well, we essentially bought

But it's not like you're kinda downplaying it. I invested in one of your your properties. We bought a six plex in Greenpoint. I think I forget Well, we essentially bought

28:32

land. Right? We bought a house because everybody's gonna be knocked down. We're gonna build a brand new.

land. Right? We bought a house because everybody's gonna be knocked down. We're gonna build a brand new.

28:36

We're gonna ground up construction It's gonna be, like,

We're gonna ground up construction It's gonna be, like,

28:40

a nice, a nice condo building.

a nice, a nice condo building.

28:43

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what I mean, but I didn't even look details. I was just like, anything that ValDA is on part of. But it's it's way bigger than you're you're just saying like it's a project. I mean, I think you've bought like a hundred million dollars worth of real estate. No. I haven't I haven't bought one hundred million. We have six projects. Couple of them already completed. Third one is

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what I mean, but I didn't even look details. I was just like, anything that ValDA is on part of. But it's it's way bigger than you're you're just saying like it's a project. I mean, I think you've bought like a hundred million dollars worth of real estate. No. I haven't I haven't bought one hundred million. We have six projects. Couple of them already completed. Third one is

29:01

just about to be completed. Actually two the first two were completed and completely sold out. The third one is about to be completed and go on the market. And then we have three other projects. And they're all getting bigger and bigger.

just about to be completed. Actually two the first two were completed and completely sold out. The third one is about to be completed and go on the market. And then we have three other projects. And they're all getting bigger and bigger.

29:13

The value of, the this this the combined sale value of value of

The value of, the this this the combined sale value of value of

29:20

those projects

those projects

29:21

would be approaching a hundred million dollars.

would be approaching a hundred million dollars.

29:25

Do you what do you what are you tinkering on now? What excites you now?

Do you what do you what are you tinkering on now? What excites you now?

29:29

What and and someone asked a good question, which is what is the,

What and and someone asked a good question, which is what is the,

29:34

the equivalent of ringtones today?

the equivalent of ringtones today?

29:38

What's the equivalence of?

What's the equivalence of?

29:41

Like, it's just crazy that it's just like you're kinda like this like digital cowboy. You're just like this white one guy

Like, it's just crazy that it's just like you're kinda like this like digital cowboy. You're just like this white one guy

29:47

the wild west doing this shit with like no rules. It it's just I just think it's hilarious that you are just a pirate who's taking it to the extreme.

the wild west doing this shit with like no rules. It it's just I just think it's hilarious that you are just a pirate who's taking it to the extreme.

29:55

Where are the digital pirates at right now?

Where are the digital pirates at right now?

29:59

It has to be like TikTok.

It has to be like TikTok.

30:04

What do you mean? It's

What do you mean? It's

30:07

you know, you look for, like, those spaces that haven't been touched. Right? Because people ask

you know, you look for, like, those spaces that haven't been touched. Right? Because people ask

30:14

me, I think what that's what you're saying. Like, what's what what can you what can be marketed these days and how

me, I think what that's what you're saying. Like, what's what what can you what can be marketed these days and how

30:21

to get that kind of scale?

to get that kind of scale?

30:24

And I don't it's hard because what I've seen over over my career

And I don't it's hard because what I've seen over over my career

30:29

is that

is that

30:30

the windows of opportunity, those white spaces, right,

the windows of opportunity, those white spaces, right,

30:34

The windows those windows are becoming shorter and shorter and shorter every iteration.

The windows those windows are becoming shorter and shorter and shorter every iteration.

30:41

Right? There was the page search probably lasted a good six years. After that,

Right? There was the page search probably lasted a good six years. After that,

30:48

or around that same time, there was display.

or around that same time, there was display.

30:51

That probably lasted a little less. And then there was social media. That that window probably, you know, the arbitrage window. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That probably lasted two, three years. At best.

That probably lasted a little less. And then there was social media. That that window probably, you know, the arbitrage window. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That probably lasted two, three years. At best.

31:01

Now you're talking now now you got like

Now you're talking now now you got like

31:05

Instagram and TikTok, and you got the re, Instagram reels.

Instagram and TikTok, and you got the re, Instagram reels.

31:08

I mean, those are probably also one year windows of opportunity. If you could kind of catch that lightning

I mean, those are probably also one year windows of opportunity. If you could kind of catch that lightning

31:15

and build on it, then you got something, but your your window And it's all rooted in distribution, which is how do you get distribution quickly?

and build on it, then you got something, but your your window And it's all rooted in distribution, which is how do you get distribution quickly?

31:22

And you're saying that you think that that's TikTok. Do you think that window is still open?

And you're saying that you think that that's TikTok. Do you think that window is still open?

31:26

I I think if you have a knack for understanding how get virality or get content, then then

I I think if you have a knack for understanding how get virality or get content, then then

31:35

You have your own distribution. If you don't have that knack,

You have your own distribution. If you don't have that knack,

31:39

you gotta figure out how to work with people that

you gotta figure out how to work with people that

31:42

have the that's, that access. So

have the that's, that access. So

31:46

there's one company

there's one company

31:48

that could work with all the same parts.

that could work with all the same parts.

31:51

Right? All the podcasters.

Right? All the podcasters.

31:53

How much is that worth?

How much is that worth?

31:55

Like,

Like,

31:57

we're using a platform here right now.

we're using a platform here right now.

31:59

Right? That is smart.

Right? That is smart.

32:02

They're they're they're doing the right thing. Like, they're focusing on guys like you who have this access, but they're not selling anything. Right? They're just selling you a platform.

They're they're they're doing the right thing. Like, they're focusing on guys like you who have this access, but they're not selling anything. Right? They're just selling you a platform.

32:10

If somebody could sell,

If somebody could sell,

32:13

figure out how to sell a product,

figure out how to sell a product,

32:15

across

across

32:17

number of podcasts,

number of podcasts,

32:20

that's worth a lot. And you could sell I'll move a lot of product. And by the way,

that's worth a lot. And you could sell I'll move a lot of product. And by the way,

32:25

it doesn't have to be podcasts. What about all the

it doesn't have to be podcasts. What about all the

32:28

TikTokers who doing all those dances? Right?

TikTokers who doing all those dances? Right?

32:31

I know

I know

32:36

I know, like for one company, they they scaled to like eighty million in sales

I know, like for one company, they they scaled to like eighty million in sales

32:41

a few years ago. I'm I'm not gonna mention the name of it, but,

a few years ago. I'm I'm not gonna mention the name of it, but,

32:44

then they scale to, like, eighty million in sales

then they scale to, like, eighty million in sales

32:48

just on the back of YouTube sluencers.

just on the back of YouTube sluencers.

32:51

What was the product? It was cosmetics. What was, like, product?

What was the product? It was cosmetics. What was, like, product?

32:54

And they just was that

And they just was that

32:57

cosmetics. It was just, like, makeup or something or a lotion. Yeah. Yeah. The numbers were just insane.

cosmetics. It was just, like, makeup or something or a lotion. Yeah. Yeah. The numbers were just insane.

33:03

And,

And,

33:04

yeah, it it was just a long tail. Like, it wasn't just big influencers.

yeah, it it was just a long tail. Like, it wasn't just big influencers.

33:08

Even the,

Even the,

33:10

like, thousands of mediocre,

like, thousands of mediocre,

33:13

influencers with the smaller,

influencers with the smaller,

33:14

ones

ones

33:15

that just drove it.

that just drove it.

33:18

So stuff like that, like

So stuff like that, like

33:21

latch on to something that is big,

latch on to something that is big,

33:24

especially if you could,

especially if you could,

33:27

latch on it, like, the long tail of it,

latch on it, like, the long tail of it,

33:30

because

because

33:31

not a lot of people look at the long tail part of, sure, businesses.

not a lot of people look at the long tail part of, sure, businesses.

33:36

Well,

Well,

33:36

so one thing I wonder, you know, like this thing that Val talks about, of

so one thing I wonder, you know, like this thing that Val talks about, of

33:40

testing out ten different things before the other guy can put his pants on. Right? Like, you're you're building your,

testing out ten different things before the other guy can put his pants on. Right? Like, you're you're building your,

33:48

perfect thing that's gonna take you six months before you even get to market. Great. I'm gonna test ten things in that time. That sounds really nice, but also, like,

perfect thing that's gonna take you six months before you even get to market. Great. I'm gonna test ten things in that time. That sounds really nice, but also, like,

33:56

I guess I'll I'll actually ask Sam first then I'll ask you Val. Like, What do you think it is about Val? What do you think it is about either his skill set or his personality that allows him to do that much testing where other people just, like, can't figure that out apparently?

I guess I'll I'll actually ask Sam first then I'll ask you Val. Like, What do you think it is about Val? What do you think it is about either his skill set or his personality that allows him to do that much testing where other people just, like, can't figure that out apparently?

34:10

I think that this is a common thread that I've seen.

I think that this is a common thread that I've seen.

34:14

I my buddy Joe is just like this. There's this thing, particularly, I find it amongst immigrants

I my buddy Joe is just like this. There's this thing, particularly, I find it amongst immigrants

34:20

or children of immigrants,

or children of immigrants,

34:22

and maybe because they've, like, experienced some type of hard ship where they're like,

and maybe because they've, like, experienced some type of hard ship where they're like,

34:28

like dude, I've experienced some crazy shit or my family has experienced

like dude, I've experienced some crazy shit or my family has experienced

34:31

crazy

crazy

34:32

shit. I have zero fear looking like a fool. If that's the worst if the worst that's gonna happen is I'm gonna look stupid or lose,

shit. I have zero fear looking like a fool. If that's the worst if the worst that's gonna happen is I'm gonna look stupid or lose,

34:39

a tiny amount of money. I'm okay with that. And I don't so I don't have any fear about that.

a tiny amount of money. I'm okay with that. And I don't so I don't have any fear about that.

34:45

That's what it that's what I think I've noticed. That's the trend I've noticed amongst people like Val. Look, I I think there's a I think

That's what it that's what I think I've noticed. That's the trend I've noticed amongst people like Val. Look, I I think there's a I think

34:53

That's up. I think there's a huge

That's up. I think there's a huge

34:55

that's a huge factor.

that's a huge factor.

34:57

And

And

34:58

one of the things I look at, like, I'm raising kids now. Right? Do I make sure that

one of the things I look at, like, I'm raising kids now. Right? Do I make sure that

35:04

they

they

35:06

kind of because they're not gonna grow up the same way I grew up. Right? They're not gonna come out.

kind of because they're not gonna grow up the same way I grew up. Right? They're not gonna come out.

35:13

The the resources they have, the access they have. It's very different from what I grew up with.

The the resources they have, the access they have. It's very different from what I grew up with.

35:18

So what I think I realized is

So what I think I realized is

35:20

the power is the power is in

the power is the power is in

35:23

resourcefulness. Okay?

resourcefulness. Okay?

35:27

I was able to make a lot or do a lot, I should say. Whether it's money or whatever it is. Right? It doesn't have to be just money. It could be

I was able to make a lot or do a lot, I should say. Whether it's money or whatever it is. Right? It doesn't have to be just money. It could be

35:34

whatever whatever excites you. Right?

whatever whatever excites you. Right?

35:37

But I was able to do a lot with very little,

But I was able to do a lot with very little,

35:40

but it's because I had no choice and I had very little.

but it's because I had no choice and I had very little.

35:44

We weren't poor. Like, I didn't come from poverty or anything like that, but

We weren't poor. Like, I didn't come from poverty or anything like that, but

35:48

but again, my parents couldn't afford a computer for me for the first six years of my life here. Right?

but again, my parents couldn't afford a computer for me for the first six years of my life here. Right?

35:54

So

So

35:56

I got to think, like, how do I recreate that? And

I got to think, like, how do I recreate that? And

35:59

you can't really recreate that for your but I figured, okay. I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna give my kids everything

you can't really recreate that for your but I figured, okay. I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna give my kids everything

36:07

on a silver platter.

on a silver platter.

36:09

So

So

36:10

So you I mean, you just talked about my son. Like, he is,

So you I mean, you just talked about my son. Like, he is,

36:15

he he he's his DNA is very, like, like mine. Like, he he's way ahead of me because he has all these tools. Like, you know, he has a computer way

he he he's his DNA is very, like, like mine. Like, he he's way ahead of me because he has all these tools. Like, you know, he has a computer way

36:22

before me.

before me.

36:24

I didn't buy him a computer.

I didn't buy him a computer.

36:27

I I made him

I I made him

36:30

save up the money. I don't care how he does it. Birthday's work, whatever.

save up the money. I don't care how he does it. Birthday's work, whatever.

36:36

During that time he researched all parts and everything.

During that time he researched all parts and everything.

36:40

I think at the age of, like, seven or eight

I think at the age of, like, seven or eight

36:44

He built a computer, bought the parts by himself. He built a computer from scratch by himself. I didn't even help him.

He built a computer, bought the parts by himself. He built a computer from scratch by himself. I didn't even help him.

36:50

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

36:51

So

So

36:52

he now built two computers. Like,

he now built two computers. Like,

36:55

and he taught himself how to code. And,

and he taught himself how to code. And,

36:58

so I I suppress resources.

so I I suppress resources.

37:03

For my kids systematically.

For my kids systematically.

37:07

Not like I I don't feed them. Like, they're they're they're they're they're

Not like I I don't feed them. Like, they're they're they're they're they're

37:10

they're they're they're doing just fine. Like, they're good to hear. That's good to hear. Yeah.

they're they're they're doing just fine. Like, they're good to hear. That's good to hear. Yeah.

37:14

And you live in a nice neighborhood, but

And you live in a nice neighborhood, but

37:17

I systematically,

I systematically,

37:19

make sure that they're not given all the resources because

make sure that they're not given all the resources because

37:23

that's how

that's how

37:25

you naturally learn to become resourceful.

you naturally learn to become resourceful.

37:29

Do you think it is? Yeah. Fundamentally,

Do you think it is? Yeah. Fundamentally,

37:30

it's about doing

it's about doing

37:32

more with less, essentially, you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. But but it has to start from day one.

more with less, essentially, you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. But but it has to start from day one.

37:38

Are you driven by money?

Are you driven by money?

37:41

Yes and no.

Yes and no.

37:44

I I

I I

37:47

Yes. Because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like a score.

Yes. Because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like a score.

37:52

Right? I, I don't see no money.

Right? I, I don't see no money.

37:54

It's like a it's a number in a bank account, right? Like, it's not like back in the days where you look you know you you know it's not like we're scrooge mcduck like you get to jump through the

It's like a it's a number in a bank account, right? Like, it's not like back in the days where you look you know you you know it's not like we're scrooge mcduck like you get to jump through the

38:03

to the vault of cash I, like, I I

to the vault of cash I, like, I I

38:07

was watching as a kid and I was like, wow, I wanna be that guy one day.

was watching as a kid and I was like, wow, I wanna be that guy one day.

38:12

And,

And,

38:14

but,

but,

38:15

no, I think I think what I'm driven really is by

no, I think I think what I'm driven really is by

38:19

just winning.

just winning.

38:21

And,

And,

38:22

there there is, I think there is a bit of sense in me of, that I'm

there there is, I think there is a bit of sense in me of, that I'm

38:30

one step from losing it all?

one step from losing it all?

38:32

You still feel that way?

You still feel that way?

38:35

I feel like it's still possible. I think I think it's think it's like an immigrant thing,

I feel like it's still possible. I think I think it's think it's like an immigrant thing,

38:40

probably.

probably.

38:42

By the way, I feel exactly the same way. I was, like, in bed last night, telling my wife. I was like, I need to go to, like, a therapist or something. I'm like, I'm freaking out. We're gonna lose everything. Is this is all going away.

By the way, I feel exactly the same way. I was, like, in bed last night, telling my wife. I was like, I need to go to, like, a therapist or something. I'm like, I'm freaking out. We're gonna lose everything. Is this is all going away.

38:53

I feel the exact I feel

I feel the exact I feel

38:55

Like, I,

Like, I,

38:56

for a long time, I, like, had a plan on where I would go if I was homeless.

for a long time, I, like, had a plan on where I would go if I was homeless.

39:02

Like, I'd I'd still leave. That's all going away. In some ways in in a in a weird way, it kind of

Like, I'd I'd still leave. That's all going away. In some ways in in a in a weird way, it kind of

39:07

excites you. Not not a homeless, but that you got a chance to figure it out from scratch again?

excites you. Not not a homeless, but that you got a chance to figure it out from scratch again?

39:14

Yeah. Because I like,

Yeah. Because I like,

39:16

it does kinda make me because when you have nothing, it's kinda fun to play games because

it does kinda make me because when you have nothing, it's kinda fun to play games because

39:22

it's just easier to bet sometimes.

it's just easier to bet sometimes.

39:25

You can't bet as much, but it's kind of exciting to be, like, just like a hood rat with nothing, like, which I which I was.

You can't bet as much, but it's kind of exciting to be, like, just like a hood rat with nothing, like, which I which I was.

39:32

It is kind of exciting, but I get fear of, like, the anxiety I I feel of losing everything.

It is kind of exciting, but I get fear of, like, the anxiety I I feel of losing everything.

39:38

Like, I

Like, I

39:39

Like, I have so many spreadsheets that map out, like, alright. When the money gets to this number, then I gotta go and panic and get a job. Start, like,

Like, I have so many spreadsheets that map out, like, alright. When the money gets to this number, then I gotta go and panic and get a job. Start, like,

39:48

Ubering. Like, I have, like, a plan for that.

Ubering. Like, I have, like, a plan for that.

39:52

We,

We,

39:53

the reason why I had you on Ben, the reason why I wanted to show you this guy is

the reason why I had you on Ben, the reason why I wanted to show you this guy is

39:58

now it's he's hard to explain,

now it's he's hard to explain,

40:00

but I wanted people to understand like a truly

but I wanted people to understand like a truly

40:04

unique

unique

40:05

and original thinker.

and original thinker.

40:07

And I don't you know, I you're gonna have to come on again, but like Do do you does that do you understand what I'm saying, but it's it's very original thinking.

And I don't you know, I you're gonna have to come on again, but like Do do you does that do you understand what I'm saying, but it's it's very original thinking.

40:17

Yeah. And you you see that just in the way that, like, you vow

Yeah. And you you see that just in the way that, like, you vow

40:21

have attack have tackled, like,

have attack have tackled, like,

40:25

a different set of problems than anyone else I've ever talked to. To just like I've never talked to someone who's like, yeah, I tackled bring tones

a different set of problems than anyone else I've ever talked to. To just like I've never talked to someone who's like, yeah, I tackled bring tones

40:32

and then add networks and then peer to peer lending, and then the rebusiness.

and then add networks and then peer to peer lending, and then the rebusiness.

40:36

Like, I just think that kinda

Like, I just think that kinda

40:39

belies how your mind functions differently than other people. Do you do you feel that way? Like, do you feel that you

belies how your mind functions differently than other people. Do you do you feel that way? Like, do you feel that you

40:46

just have unique perspective. Have you met anyone that looks at the world the way you do? And if you acknowledge that it's weird because and you're saying that you didn't you didn't actually realize it was weird until talked about you in the podcast, like, half a year ago, which is weird. Because how old are you? Like, thirty nine, thirty eight, and you're now just realizing that you're you're you're not ball?

just have unique perspective. Have you met anyone that looks at the world the way you do? And if you acknowledge that it's weird because and you're saying that you didn't you didn't actually realize it was weird until talked about you in the podcast, like, half a year ago, which is weird. Because how old are you? Like, thirty nine, thirty eight, and you're now just realizing that you're you're you're not ball?

41:04

Yeah. So I I I didn't see myself that way until

Yeah. So I I I didn't see myself that way until

41:09

you did the whole expose,

you did the whole expose,

41:11

with that show on that on that one episode.

with that show on that on that one episode.

41:16

That you didn't tell me about. But,

That you didn't tell me about. But,

41:18

after our lunch, but, I know. I but, yeah, when you said, buddy I I I told Joe. I was like, dude, I'd never do that. I almost always ask for permission before I talk about it, but I just was too excited and I forgot.

after our lunch, but, I know. I but, yeah, when you said, buddy I I I told Joe. I was like, dude, I'd never do that. I almost always ask for permission before I talk about it, but I just was too excited and I forgot.

41:29

I,

I,

41:30

it was I I have a I have a story, but I'm gonna tell you that after.

it was I I have a I have a story, but I'm gonna tell you that after.

41:33

On that. But, so to me, like, when you said, like, oh, this guy goes from this industry to that industry. He's, like, jumping all over the place and he's, you know, kind of successful or or successful on doing it. This is, like, crazy. I was, like,

On that. But, so to me, like, when you said, like, oh, this guy goes from this industry to that industry. He's, like, jumping all over the place and he's, you know, kind of successful or or successful on doing it. This is, like, crazy. I was, like,

41:48

I I didn't I never thought it with myself that way. That but it didn't make sense. Like,

I I didn't I never thought it with myself that way. That but it didn't make sense. Like,

41:53

I I I don't know why I keep jumping different categories.

I I I don't know why I keep jumping different categories.

41:56

I guess, again, I'm at that curiosity just kicks in and and

I guess, again, I'm at that curiosity just kicks in and and

42:01

And I just but I I I go after it instead of just what if, you know, I just kind of go after it.

And I just but I I I go after it instead of just what if, you know, I just kind of go after it.

42:07

But,

But,

42:09

No. I I I I until now, I really haven't realized the the that how odd that is. But thank thank you for

No. I I I I until now, I really haven't realized the the that how odd that is. But thank thank you for

42:16

letting me know them, I'm really strange.

letting me know them, I'm really strange.

42:19

I just think that, like, there there's just a bunch of unique

I just think that, like, there there's just a bunch of unique

42:23

there's just a bunch of unique things about you, and I think it's so cool. When I say weird and odd, that's a really good compliment, by the way. Yeah. Listen, I know you well enough now to to know that's a compliment that,

there's just a bunch of unique things about you, and I think it's so cool. When I say weird and odd, that's a really good compliment, by the way. Yeah. Listen, I know you well enough now to to know that's a compliment that,

42:34

So so the funny story about

So so the funny story about

42:38

again, before you, I was pretty under under the radar. Right? Like, Yeah. You can find stuff. I mean, you have to really look. Like, nobody really put it out there. Right? And

again, before you, I was pretty under under the radar. Right? Like, Yeah. You can find stuff. I mean, you have to really look. Like, nobody really put it out there. Right? And

42:49

so then Joe tells me, like, You're gonna do they did a podcast,

so then Joe tells me, like, You're gonna do they did a podcast,

42:53

and

and

42:54

I didn't tell my wife.

I didn't tell my wife.

42:56

And then the podcast comes out. I'm like, hey, Sarah.

And then the podcast comes out. I'm like, hey, Sarah.

43:01

They the they

They the they

43:03

this guy did a podcast on me. She's like,

this guy did a podcast on me. She's like,

43:07

And

And

43:08

who cares about a podcast? What a, you know, she's like, you know, but he's gonna talk about me. So

who cares about a podcast? What a, you know, she's like, you know, but he's gonna talk about me. So

43:13

who cares? Like, what what a couple hundred people gonna listen? Like, apparently, this guy has, like, a million people listening.

who cares? Like, what what a couple hundred people gonna listen? Like, apparently, this guy has, like, a million people listening.

43:19

She's, like, oh, great.

She's, like, oh, great.

43:21

She's, like, did he ask you permission? I was, like, not really, so I don't really know what he's gonna talk about.

She's, like, did he ask you permission? I was, like, not really, so I don't really know what he's gonna talk about.

43:27

So it's like, okay. So the thing comes out, like, so we're listening to it.

So it's like, okay. So the thing comes out, like, so we're listening to it.

43:31

And

And

43:31

and you keep saying vowel. You keep saying vowel, vowel, vowel, like, never say, right, never say my last name. And then you you and Sean go into, like, this tangent talking about red pill and blue pill or whatever. So She's like and so we thought, like, it said, vowel part is over. Right? She's like, okay. It wasn't so bad. He never mentioned your last name. Who'd have who'd have to figure out who's vowel?

and you keep saying vowel. You keep saying vowel, vowel, vowel, like, never say, right, never say my last name. And then you you and Sean go into, like, this tangent talking about red pill and blue pill or whatever. So She's like and so we thought, like, it said, vowel part is over. Right? She's like, okay. It wasn't so bad. He never mentioned your last name. Who'd have who'd have to figure out who's vowel?

43:52

And then after you went off to tangent with the about the pills,

And then after you went off to tangent with the about the pills,

43:56

and you're like, oh, by the way, I forgot to mention his full name.

and you're like, oh, by the way, I forgot to mention his full name.

43:59

Let me smoke

Let me smoke

44:01

let me spell it out for you.

let me spell it out for you.

44:03

And you literally spelled my last name.

And you literally spelled my last name.

44:06

So she's like, I'm gonna kill this guy.

So she's like, I'm gonna kill this guy.

44:09

Oh, she was bad. She wasn't bad. She's she's very she's very she's very nice.

Oh, she was bad. She wasn't bad. She's she's very she's very she's very nice.

44:13

Everything I thought that everything we said you could find publicly, and we didn't reveal anything, like, crazy.

Everything I thought that everything we said you could find publicly, and we didn't reveal anything, like, crazy.

44:19

And,

And,

44:20

I tried to only like, I just read your LinkedIn. That's basically all I did. Yeah. You could find stuff about but it's, you know, it's one thing to the information to be out there for somebody to look for it.

I tried to only like, I just read your LinkedIn. That's basically all I did. Yeah. You could find stuff about but it's, you know, it's one thing to the information to be out there for somebody to look for it.

44:32

But it's another one

But it's another one

44:33

when you're on full blast. Right? Like, and it and it's being discovered.

when you're on full blast. Right? Like, and it and it's being discovered.

44:39

So, right, by audiences.

So, right, by audiences.

44:42

So

So

44:43

So that's all

So that's all

44:44

new to me.

new to me.

44:46

I know. I I felt like an asshole when that happened. I I'm normally always good about that. So, like, if someone if we're out with friends and people talking about stuff, I'm like, hey, is this private or not? Like, they have to make sure they say it's private around me.

I know. I I felt like an asshole when that happened. I I'm normally always good about that. So, like, if someone if we're out with friends and people talking about stuff, I'm like, hey, is this private or not? Like, they have to make sure they say it's private around me.

44:59

You're you're you're you're a nice guy. So I'll I'll let it slide.

You're you're you're you're a nice guy. So I'll I'll let it slide.

45:03

Yeah. I blew up your spot. And and

Yeah. I blew up your spot. And and

45:05

yeah. I that's something I remember the day that happened. I was like, oh my god, Joe. I didn't even realize it because sometimes when Sean and I re recording, I forget that it's the podcast. I just, like, It just, like, friends talking to one of and I forget. I'm like, oh my god. I forgot. That was I just said that on air. I can't believe that.

yeah. I that's something I remember the day that happened. I was like, oh my god, Joe. I didn't even realize it because sometimes when Sean and I re recording, I forget that it's the podcast. I just, like, It just, like, friends talking to one of and I forget. I'm like, oh my god. I forgot. That was I just said that on air. I can't believe that.

45:24

So that that was one of those examples. But,

So that that was one of those examples. But,

45:27

dude, this was awesome. What do you think, Ben? This is this is pretty bad ass. This is great. It's got me fired up to go I know you're doing your Airbnbs this year. Sam, that's kinda your thing, but I totally not do it, though, right before this podcast. He said, don't do it. Oh, really? Yeah. I think I'm gonna do it anyway, but he I told him these two ideas that I might work on, and he basically said,

dude, this was awesome. What do you think, Ben? This is this is pretty bad ass. This is great. It's got me fired up to go I know you're doing your Airbnbs this year. Sam, that's kinda your thing, but I totally not do it, though, right before this podcast. He said, don't do it. Oh, really? Yeah. I think I'm gonna do it anyway, but he I told him these two ideas that I might work on, and he basically said,

45:46

he said, Dude, I was like, should I work on going hard on content? Should I work on this job board idea or this Airbnb thing? It goes,

he said, Dude, I was like, should I work on going hard on content? Should I work on this job board idea or this Airbnb thing? It goes,

45:54

do content. And I was like, oh, that's what I don't wanna do. I said, don't do it now.

do content. And I was like, oh, that's what I don't wanna do. I said, don't do it now.

46:00

Well, I didn't actually he literally sent me his response, like, three minutes before the podcast. So I didn't entirely read the I haven't read the whole his whole reply, but he's he's like the he's like the the the the the layout thing that's just gonna bog you down. That's what he said.

Well, I didn't actually he literally sent me his response, like, three minutes before the podcast. So I didn't entirely read the I haven't read the whole his whole reply, but he's he's like the he's like the the the the the layout thing that's just gonna bog you down. That's what he said.

46:14

Yeah. I think I think something you could do in the future, but not now.

Yeah. I think I think something you could do in the future, but not now.

46:19

I do feel inspired after hearing for about and from Val. Of, like, I need to be trying more things, like, just taking more swings and, like, putting more experiments out there to see kinda what what lands. I like that. Yeah. Let's not throw them up against the wall. Like, see what sticks.

I do feel inspired after hearing for about and from Val. Of, like, I need to be trying more things, like, just taking more swings and, like, putting more experiments out there to see kinda what what lands. I like that. Yeah. Let's not throw them up against the wall. Like, see what sticks.

46:35

What's the worst But when you throw

What's the worst But when you throw

46:37

when most people throw stuff against the wall, it's a half ass attempt. When you throw stuff against the wall, like,

when most people throw stuff against the wall, it's a half ass attempt. When you throw stuff against the wall, like,

46:43

you you spend money or you, like, you said that when you were, like, when you didn't have much, you spent, like, six or seven thousand dollars on ads to see if this x thing could work, whereas most people will, like, like, oh, if that's I'll lose a couple hundred bucks. I don't wanna do that. It's like, you, you actually But that was an accident. Like, like, in that thread, that was an accident. There were no budget caps back then. So I turned it on and go to sleep, and I woke up to a six thousand dollar spend.

you you spend money or you, like, you said that when you were, like, when you didn't have much, you spent, like, six or seven thousand dollars on ads to see if this x thing could work, whereas most people will, like, like, oh, if that's I'll lose a couple hundred bucks. I don't wanna do that. It's like, you, you actually But that was an accident. Like, like, in that thread, that was an accident. There were no budget caps back then. So I turned it on and go to sleep, and I woke up to a six thousand dollar spend.

47:06

Yeah. But you still did it. I mean, I get just like most people just don't do

Yeah. But you still did it. I mean, I get just like most people just don't do

47:11

you your your attempts are, like, good.

you your your attempts are, like, good.

47:14

So

So

47:17

when I was going to all these music sites, you know, how I get their attention?

when I was going to all these music sites, you know, how I get their attention?

47:23

I would go to a site, and I would just kinda, through Alexa, whatever, I kinda knew how much traffic they have.

I would go to a site, and I would just kinda, through Alexa, whatever, I kinda knew how much traffic they have.

47:28

And I knew these guys were outside the country.

And I knew these guys were outside the country.

47:30

And to get their attention,

And to get their attention,

47:32

I would literally email them and say, hey, I'll give you a hundred thousand dollars. So I'll give you fifty thousand dollars. I'll give you twenty thousand dollars prepaid a wire tomorrow

I would literally email them and say, hey, I'll give you a hundred thousand dollars. So I'll give you fifty thousand dollars. I'll give you twenty thousand dollars prepaid a wire tomorrow

47:40

just so you could

just so you could

47:41

test my ringtone matcher link

test my ringtone matcher link

47:44

for seven days.

for seven days.

47:46

If you don't like it, it doesn't make you enough money,

If you don't like it, it doesn't make you enough money,

47:49

take the link off. We never talk again.

take the link off. We never talk again.

47:52

If you want if you like how much it generates,

If you want if you like how much it generates,

47:55

we'll sign you'll sign a contract,

we'll sign you'll sign a contract,

47:58

and everybody sign a contract.

and everybody sign a contract.

48:00

Because those two text links were generating, like, five time like, somebody who was making, like, a like,

Because those two text links were generating, like, five time like, somebody who was making, like, a like,

48:06

there were sites that were making, like, top sites were making, like, a hundred thousand dollars a month,

there were sites that were making, like, top sites were making, like, a hundred thousand dollars a month,

48:11

I would pay four hundred thousand a month on top of that. And And how many people actually took you up and said, alright. Find me the money and then I'll put yours. They all wanted the money first. Oh, oh, the money.

I would pay four hundred thousand a month on top of that. And And how many people actually took you up and said, alright. Find me the money and then I'll put yours. They all wanted the money first. Oh, oh, the money.

48:24

My success rate on that email was just I mean, who the hell is I gonna take money, like, upfront?

My success rate on that email was just I mean, who the hell is I gonna take money, like, upfront?

48:30

I would be, like, You know what? I don't need you to do it up front. I'll give it a try just because you're serious. And you actually told a story on Pomp's podcast because you like you were like, bold, but you have high integrity because, like, I think there was a guy who you owed a lot of money to because, they were a customer of your or they were a vendor, and you just had a a bill that you had to pay them. And they, like, changed their address or something and you're like, dude, I can't find you. I owe you sixty thousand dollars, and you, like, held on to the sixty thousand dollars for, like, a long time. And you just were seeking them out everywhere. Like, hey, where'd you go? I need to pay you your money. Yeah. Yeah. It pays off, like,

I would be, like, You know what? I don't need you to do it up front. I'll give it a try just because you're serious. And you actually told a story on Pomp's podcast because you like you were like, bold, but you have high integrity because, like, I think there was a guy who you owed a lot of money to because, they were a customer of your or they were a vendor, and you just had a a bill that you had to pay them. And they, like, changed their address or something and you're like, dude, I can't find you. I owe you sixty thousand dollars, and you, like, held on to the sixty thousand dollars for, like, a long time. And you just were seeking them out everywhere. Like, hey, where'd you go? I need to pay you your money. Yeah. Yeah. It pays off, like,

49:06

It's it's it's we because we have so many international people,

It's it's it's we because we have so many international people,

49:13

in the music business, when the great recession hit in there, there were there were in all these countries, and, where their their banks, a lot of them were banks were located in weird areas. We're we're we're countries like Cyprus And they would literally tell us, hey, stop stop wiring his money. We we don't trust the bank. We're working with. I gotta get a new bank account.

in the music business, when the great recession hit in there, there were there were in all these countries, and, where their their banks, a lot of them were banks were located in weird areas. We're we're we're countries like Cyprus And they would literally tell us, hey, stop stop wiring his money. We we don't trust the bank. We're working with. I gotta get a new bank account.

49:31

Like, we held their money for

Like, we held their money for

49:33

They told us to hold their money for

They told us to hold their money for

49:35

I mean, we had millions in in our bank account that didn't belong to us. And

I mean, we had millions in in our bank account that didn't belong to us. And

49:40

All these sites basically told me told me, like, I was kinda like their bank for for a while because they didn't wanna get paid and they didn't they didn't trust the bank.

All these sites basically told me told me, like, I was kinda like their bank for for a while because they didn't wanna get paid and they didn't they didn't trust the bank.

49:49

It was phenomenal to me. Like, I couldn't understand that they they they trust us, trust me with their money,

It was phenomenal to me. Like, I couldn't understand that they they they trust us, trust me with their money,

49:56

for, I mean, it's think some, in some cases, up to a year, we we we were holding their money because he had nowhere to send it.

for, I mean, it's think some, in some cases, up to a year, we we we were holding their money because he had nowhere to send it.

50:03

That's crazy. Dude, this is a good conversation. I'm happy you came on. It's awesome.

That's crazy. Dude, this is a good conversation. I'm happy you came on. It's awesome.

50:08

You you listen. Yeah. You're you're doing

You you listen. Yeah. You're you're doing

50:11

I I told you before I love your podcast. It's very,

I I told you before I love your podcast. It's very,

50:14

it's very, like,

it's very, like,

50:16

It's it's very, like,

It's it's very, like,

50:18

layman terms. Right? It's it's actually takes a lot of intellect in my opinion to dumb things down. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It helps,

layman terms. Right? It's it's actually takes a lot of intellect in my opinion to dumb things down. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It helps,

50:27

yeah, oftentimes, I wonder, like, I've a lot of my friends are English as a second language, maybe,

yeah, oftentimes, I wonder, like, I've a lot of my friends are English as a second language, maybe,

50:33

It's, like, I'm always a maid. Can you imagine coming to another country where you don't speak the language at, like, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and then, like, just crushing it I do. So, I think that's just like amazing. I've got a bunch of friends who are ESLs, and they'll they'll, like, I'll help I'll help them write stuff because

It's, like, I'm always a maid. Can you imagine coming to another country where you don't speak the language at, like, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and then, like, just crushing it I do. So, I think that's just like amazing. I've got a bunch of friends who are ESLs, and they'll they'll, like, I'll help I'll help them write stuff because

50:48

they're just a little rough. And I'm like, dude, how are you so badass? I just I'm amazed that you you're I'm just amazed at some of these people. So and and you're one of those people.

they're just a little rough. And I'm like, dude, how are you so badass? I just I'm amazed that you you're I'm just amazed at some of these people. So and and you're one of those people.

50:57

Yeah. Well, well, like, whether you are a seller, like, my English is pretty good now, but I still can't put

Yeah. Well, well, like, whether you are a seller, like, my English is pretty good now, but I still can't put

51:03

my thoughts together in a in a way that

my thoughts together in a in a way that

51:06

makes it so interesting for people

makes it so interesting for people

51:09

to

to

51:10

understand and you know how to break that down. So, like, you know, you you help me with some of my so my, you know, one of my, you know, pieces on that So that's

understand and you know how to break that down. So, like, you know, you you help me with some of my so my, you know, one of my, you know, pieces on that So that's

51:18

that's power.

that's power.

51:21

Well, thank you. I appreciate you coming on. This is badass.

Well, thank you. I appreciate you coming on. This is badass.

51:24

I appreciate you guys having me on.

I appreciate you guys having me on.

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